How Long Does it Take You to Get a Champion Point?

Syntse

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

not sure whats so hard to understand, if the best possible way to gain cp (grind+enlightend) leads to hundreds of days of ingame time then the required xp is way too high.

or do u want to still fill up your cp in 3years instead of enjoying the new content which hopefully gets released until then?

not even thinking about doing fun things instead of the optimal way

Actually yes. I do like to still have CP to work towards to after 3 years if I play that long. How I see what people seem to want is that max out Champion System in a month or so and then have it over with. Once done then they can just concentrate on their PvP or Hard end game content until they get bored.

Which will happen quite fast since there is no more goals to work towards to. You have maxed everything and done the best scores in end game and PvP is just become boring repetition. So in 2-3 months you are ready to move forward to next game or start demanding increase to CP max to have something to do and make your char bit more powerful again.

Champion System is not supposed to be something you grind to max in a month, it is supposed to be system that will give you progression over long period of time giving small increase to your chars stats.

c0rp

Syntse wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

not sure whats so hard to understand, if the best possible way to gain cp (grind+enlightend) leads to hundreds of days of ingame time then the required xp is way too high.

or do u want to still fill up your cp in 3years instead of enjoying the new content which hopefully gets released until then?

not even thinking about doing fun things instead of the optimal way

Actually yes. I do like to still have CP to work towards to after 3 years if I play that long. How I see what people seem to want is that max out Champion System in a month or so and then have it over with. Once done then they can just concentrate on their PvP or Hard end game content until they get bored.

Which will happen quite fast since there is no more goals to work towards to. You have maxed everything and done the best scores in end game and PvP is just become boring repetition. So in 2-3 months you are ready to move forward to next game or start demanding increase to CP max to have something to do and make your char bit more powerful again.

Champion System is not supposed to be something you grind to max in a month, it is supposed to be system that will give you progression over long period of time giving small increase to your chars stats.

This system was launched with ZoS telling us we get 1 point per about an hour of play. Lets say an Average Joe who plays ESO 20 hours a week gets 1 point per hour he plays. It would take that player over 3 years to max out the champion system. Now, imagine the time sink when you are earning one every 4 hours now....see the problem? There's a difference between reasonable and ridiculous.

Syntse

c0rp wrote: »

This system was launched with ZoS telling us we get 1 point per about an hour of play. Lets say an Average Joe who plays ESO 20 hours a week gets 1 point per hour he plays. It would take that player over 3 years to max out the champion system. Now, imagine the time sink when you are earning one every 4 hours now....see the problem? There's a difference between reasonable and ridiculous.

Did they mention that how this 1 CP/h should be obtainable? So far I've been getting 1 CP/h though it's been through grinding to raise the skills on the template. Should I get 1 CP/h if I pick flowers and farm some mats on low level zone to craft gear for guildie? Should I get 1 CP/h if I go RP for a hour?

What are the benchmarks for gaining 1 CP/h? So if it would be set that one should get 1 CP/h by questing and it would take 1 hour to do few quests and gain about 50k (still need to test questing). This would mean that someone who grinds gets 8 CP/h.

DeathDealer19

1 CP/hr is not possible grinding at spellscar right now. Its not possible to be enlightened all the time and we were told we would earn cp at an avg of 1 per hour of normal gameplay. normal gameplay means questing, delves, dungeons, trials, etc. this does not include grinding since ZOS is against grinding as they should be.

Nobody here wants to max out CP in a month. but at the current xp per cp, it will take over 3-4 years of nonstop grinding. are you kidding? who plans ahead 3-4 years in a video game? and who the hell wants to run around grinding the same mobs for 3-4 years? not to mention when this goes live, every tom *** and harry will be there grinding which will make it impossible. And not everybody has classes that are built to grind. and come on who wants to grind nonstop all day long? ill happily quest, dungeon, delve, trial all day long but I will not run in a circle for 3 years to level my char.

400k xp per CP is just too high. the amount needs to be no more than 100k to be remotely possible for casual players to be able to obtain anything.

Jando

Based on a total of 3600 Champion points, If you earned 1 point non-stop every hour, without sleeping and did nothing else, it would take 150 days /played to earn every point.

3600(total points) / 24(hours in a day) =150 hrs /played

But that calculation is misleading because I don't think it's currently realistic to gain 400k xp consistently every hour.


Or if converting those Champion Points into an equivalent amount of veteran ranks at the current rate of 1,000,000 xp per vet rank and 400,000 xp per Champion point. To achieve all Champion points would be the equivalent of
1,440 veteran ranks.

(400,000 * 3600) / 1,000,000 = 1,440.

So if you think it takes a long time to grind to VR 14 now, try grinding to VR 1,440 at the same pace.

But maybe I am looking at this wrong. Maybe it's not ZoS' intention for people to ever do that. Maybe it really is their goal to create an endless "progression" system - one that really doesn't provide any meaningful progression at all.

Personally, i would prefer a short, more meaningful cycle, that feels fun and exciting, and actually ends. Maybe 50-100 hours of Champion progression - where each point had some real weight.

NukeAllTheThings

Tonight I grinded Lost Prospect in Riften and this is what I came up with. I measured my time based on my food buff so I ate and got after it and after 1 hour of non-enlightened solo grinding I gained 161,592 CP. I logged on a little while ago and I was "enlightened" so I decided to see how much I would gain. I got 178,060 in 26 minutes.

Now I just need to figure out what triggers Enlightenment because it seems almost pointless to play without it.

Wolfsspinne

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

Now I just need to figure out what triggers Enlightenment because it seems almost pointless to play without it.

Afaik you get the buff ever 24 hours.

But with only 1 point per day and 3600 points to go it will take you 10 y to max.
That's one long term goal, isn't it?

Syntse

So today did some questing to see how long it would take to get point. Seems that with the quests I did that also included damn lot of running from one place to another I made 1 CP in 2 hours. Of course normally killing everything on my path (not sneaking past).

Once EU chars come I'll try to see some group dungeons and pledges. So far grinding=1CP/h, questing=0.5CP/h.

@DeathDealer19 so you see that the champion system is there to grind to the max as fast as possible. It's there to be on the background to give you sense of progress while you do your normal daily stuff when gaming. If someone really is going to make their target to grind through champion system and then continue with their game is really really lost.

If you plan to have MMO live and going for years to come, yes you plan stuff that will take 3-4 years to max and by then if game is still there they have something more to add that will give 3-4 years progression to go towards to.

Nazon_Katts

Theoretically, this could run in the background near endlessly, at least compared to even an MMO's lifespan. Practically, most will just ignore it, play once through the content (if at all) to see the story and quit.

That's what happened with VR and it will happen again with CS. The only benefit might be there's better access to Craglorn, tho that depends on how harsh the CP balancing up there really is, when/if ranks go away.

But it won't add anything to the replay-ability of group content and will turn this even more into single player one time through experience than it already is. If their aim is for improved longevity and retain, this won't work out.

However, if they wish to cycle players and don't care as much about the old blood as bringing new one in, it could make sense. But then, not implementing it would do, too.

Seravi

Ugh this is so disappointing. I am regretting leveling up my sorcerer to v3 right now if it takes this long to get a cp. Makes me want to delete her and start over going very slow questing so when this hits the servers I might have half a chance to gain some points.

Are there 70 cp possible per character or 70 total to split between all of your characters? On the live server I have a V14 DK, V3 Sorcerer and a lvl8 NB I just started.

Lorkhan

maybe if we dont be so ansious about the champion points? ok, this is obvious, but listen: after the firsts points, each cp means 0.somenthing%. its not so significant. it's is designed to be a long experience. this enlightenment thing is grind blocker. it's designed to favor player who cant play all day. they want this system to last a long time. just adjust your expectation. it's not the same thing as grind vr levels. @zos_ginabruno you guys should adjust CRAGLORN. there is the problem. adjust craglorn so that it is no longer possible to grind

Syntse

Seravi wrote: »

Are there 70 cp possible per character or 70 total to split between all of your characters? On the live server I have a V14 DK, V3 Sorcerer and a lvl8 NB I just started.

You will have 70 to use on each your chars.

NukeAllTheThings

I logged into another character and she was "enlightened" so I decided to grind another hour with my morning coffee. This time I was in V10 Reapers March grinding Thormar. In 1 hour I gained 481,740 CP.

So regular 1 hour grind = 161,592
Enlightened 1 hour grind = 481,740

This was solo in 2 different places because the characters tested were in different Alliances. Tonight I will run a test questing Cadwell's gold to see what comes up but I expect it to be much less than what I was able to produce in 1 hour.

At this point I will say that CP levels are way too high or CP gain is way too low in non-enlightened play. This wouldn't be a problem if the Champion system was just extra progression on top of what we had before. But with the nerf to a lot of our base stats this is a poor replacement just to catch up to where we were before

Seravi

Thanks Syntse!

Konou

I think 200k is enough for 1 championpoint

starkerealm

c0rp wrote: »

This system was launched with ZoS telling us we get 1 point per about an hour of play.

Wait... so, here's an utterly stupid question, but if the target is to meter this stuff out at specific intervals... why isn't it actually paying out on the clock, instead of via XP?

Why isn't the system: you gain XP, enter combat, or advance an achievement (for crafters collecting resources), you start a 5 minute clock ticking, gaining more resets the clock to 5 minutes, you gain champion points at a fixed rate until the clock runs out? Once it runs out, you're no longer gaining CP. But, if you're doing something like delves, or questing, you're gaining CP based on the time you play. Rather than trying to calibrate a value that balances against PvP in Cyrodiil, players grinding Craglorn, and people mopping up Cadwell.

Players will gain XP at different rates. If this is a screwing around for time investment, why not actually pay out based on the time invested. Enlightenment can still work the same way, CP is gained at 4 or 5 times the rate, but it's just a constant trickle instead of trying to juryrig something into the XP system.

starkerealm

Konou wrote: »

I think 200k is enough for 1 championpoint

Yeah, if it's supposed to be per hour, 200k should come close to that for people who are questing and doing content normally.

Lorkhan

starkerealm wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

This system was launched with ZoS telling us we get 1 point per about an hour of play.

Wait... so, here's an utterly stupid question, but if the target is to meter this stuff out at specific intervals... why isn't it actually paying out on the clock, instead of via XP?

Why isn't the system: you gain XP, enter combat, or advance an achievement (for crafters collecting resources), you start a 5 minute clock ticking, gaining more resets the clock to 5 minutes, you gain champion points at a fixed rate until the clock runs out? Once it runs out, you're no longer gaining CP. But, if you're doing something like delves, or questing, you're gaining CP based on the time you play. Rather than trying to calibrate a value that balances against PvP in Cyrodiil, players grinding Craglorn, and people mopping up Cadwell.

Players will gain XP at different rates. If this is a screwing around for time investment, why not actually pay out based on the time invested. Enlightenment can still work the same way, CP is gained at 4 or 5 times the rate, but it's just a constant trickle instead of trying to juryrig something into the XP system.

i think this can work too. +1

FordPrefect

Maybe they just forgot to increase all XP values by 6x/8x/10x the same way our stat values were increased...

angelyn

I think the reason people want all those champion points, is because ZOS nerfed all the stats in this update.

This means that you need those champion points just to get your stat back to where it was in update 5 (crit/health/regen/sets/jewel enchants etc).

So for me to get my spell crit back up to what it was in live, I need that 12% increase in the Apprentice. This takes 30 points in that constellation.

So instead of me thinking "Wow, awesome new champion points that will help my build", I'm now thinking "Ahh gotta use them champion points to combat health nerf(all players), light armour nerf(LA/MA users), and self healing nerf(specific to my class only)

Even though I've got 70cp on test template, this didn't nearly bring char up to update 5 levels. However, I am using test template so will have more of an idea once EU have own chars.

I envisage that the first 100 CP you have will be spent just trying to get your char back to performing how they did in 5, due to all the stat nerfs.

Then finally, after however long questing/grinding I can enjoy CP 100 onwards to actually add to the build I had in 5.

Maotti

We get it Zenimax. You hate grinders.

But guess what. I hate using quests as the only way to get XP.

Valencer

Just to be absolutely clear about this:

We're supposed to be able to get about 1 CP/hour when enlightened and about 4 CP/hour when not enlightened. Is this more or less the case in 1.6?

Syntse

angelyn wrote: »

I envisage that the first 100 CP you have will be spent just trying to get your char back to performing how they did in 5, due to all the stat nerfs.

Didn't occur that it's complete overhaul and revamp of the system and might not mean that you're supposed continue from where you left once it hits live. Of course people compare to what they were before even though it's almost completely new system.

One thing of course what Zos needs to take into consideration is the content they have is also nerfed with the players, unless the idea is to have the content be bit harder again.

jmunkxb14_ESO

1cp/hr enlightened, 4hrs/cp not enlightened

helediron

The monster XP is very inconsistent. I quickly tested these in PTS:
Rivenspire troll: 248
Alikr beetle: 124
Bankorai bloodcleaver: 310
Lower Craglorn welwa: 144

Tavore1138

Syntse wrote: »

angelyn wrote: »

I envisage that the first 100 CP you have will be spent just trying to get your char back to performing how they did in 5, due to all the stat nerfs.

Didn't occur that it's complete overhaul and revamp of the system and might not mean that you're supposed continue from where you left once it hits live. Of course people compare to what they were before even though it's almost completely new system.

One thing of course what Zos needs to take into consideration is the content they have is also nerfed with the players, unless the idea is to have the content be bit harder again.

Some basic knowledge of people will tell you that if they have 10 on day 0 and someone takes away 2 and leaves them with 8 while giving them nothing in return for the missing 2 then they are going to get cross.

If you then tell them that if they 'play', but only in the pre-approved ZOS certified definition of 'play', for several thousand hours they will have 10 again they are not going to see it is a good thing.

The Champion System was sold as progression. Many of us assumed this would mean that this was progressions from where we were on the day it was launched - not that they'd nerf all our current progression so we had to start again at a point we reached weeks or months ago.

The history of this game would suggest that they will not have taken current content into account so there will be people who could do it before who will not be able to do it now - when the EU character ports are available I believe my guildies intend to run things like trials and vet dungeons to put this to the test with existing builds - but US feedback has not been positive.

The champion system was supposed to be new progression not old progression again.

silberling

400k xp for a new level is too much.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Syntse wrote: »

Seravi wrote: »

Are there 70 cp possible per character or 70 total to split between all of your characters? On the live server I have a V14 DK, V3 Sorcerer and a lvl8 NB I just started.

You will have 70 to use on each your chars.

I know people keep saying this but it isnt how it works on PTS. I have earned 70 points on one character only. All the rest of my VR characters have less than 70 points to use. So not all of your characters will have access to all those points.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

angelyn wrote: »

I envisage that the first 100 CP you have will be spent just trying to get your char back to performing how they did in 5, due to all the stat nerfs.

Didn't occur that it's complete overhaul and revamp of the system and might not mean that you're supposed continue from where you left once it hits live. Of course people compare to what they were before even though it's almost completely new system.

One thing of course what Zos needs to take into consideration is the content they have is also nerfed with the players, unless the idea is to have the content be bit harder again.

Some basic knowledge of people will tell you that if they have 10 on day 0 and someone takes away 2 and leaves them with 8 while giving them nothing in return for the missing 2 then they are going to get cross.

If you then tell them that if they 'play', but only in the pre-approved ZOS certified definition of 'play', for several thousand hours they will have 10 again they are not going to see it is a good thing.

The Champion System was sold as progression. Many of us assumed this would mean that this was progressions from where we were on the day it was launched - not that they'd nerf all our current progression so we had to start again at a point we reached weeks or months ago.

The history of this game would suggest that they will not have taken current content into account so there will be people who could do it before who will not be able to do it now - when the EU character ports are available I believe my guildies intend to run things like trials and vet dungeons to put this to the test with existing builds - but US feedback has not been positive.

The champion system was supposed to be new progression not old progression again.

Ya you thought the vet system was long and tedious. I have been on PTS for hours never did earn another champ point. At this rate it will be 2027 before I get enough points to max out even one section much less the whole thing. I cant spend 40 hours a week in the game.

Theegoliath

My guildies and I were on last night on pts and did our normal thing, siege, cap keeps, resources and no one even noticed a move in there cp bar... we were on for two hours, before we switched to testing the justice system in pve. A few people had the enlightened tooltip pop up however throughout the evening, but no one recieved any cp points from the two hours of pvp...