Standard of Might - Nerfed

Lhorion

Not just DKs damage.... Every damage is buffed

WebBull

More bats, more bats, more bats. How did bats not get nerfed? And now vamps take 10% less fire damage with this patch.

WRX

So. Many. Bads.

The ulti change is so much worse than I could of imagined.

frozywozy

Crazy how people talk about how they buff DKs damage but no one talk about their survivability and the nerf to Ash Cloud that will reduce DK's survivability by a fair 30%. It's great to deal more damage but what is the advantage if you can't stay in melee range long enough to deal that damage? Guess I'm gonna have to spam Igneous Shield and Hardened Armor non stop and hope for the best.

DKs won't be able to just sit in their standard above their Ash Cloud because they will melt instantly. They will get in melee range, drop their standard and roll away because like some people said, 1.6 will be all about range attacks......... unless you go vamp.

Galalin

Koensol wrote: »

OP, your whole thread loses credit because of 2 things:

1. Nova is still 300 ult, which still makes standard better.
2. DKs were buffed all over on their damage.

So please stop complaining. Templars wergot the same nerf to their synergy and then some. Our healing tree got nerfed, so now we all have to equip mage light to be a viable healer. We did get a nice dps buff though. But please, for the love of god STOP complainimg about your DK, because they only got a minor nerf.

Templar thread --->

Sanct16

Standard of Might is already a barely used Ultimate. This change and the huge nerf to Ultimate gain will just make it more less used.

For group play Shifting Standard will be far better as you only need Banner for the heal debuff. On the other hand there are easier ways to healdebuff as the healdebuffs dont stack anymore.

Saying that DKs only got a minor nerf is plain wrong tho as DKs only way to reliabely manage resources atm is Battle Roar due to expensive skills. Other classes will be a lot weaker due to not having Ultimate but still DKs will probably have a hard time with resource management.
The nerf to blockcost will make DKs far less tanky. The current hybrid meta of DKs in light armor doing good damage while staying tanky will be totally destroyed. You will now be able to chose between playing pure tank in full heavy doing absolutely no serious damage or playing a firemage in light armor without any way to kite or escape.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

It is now the highest cost ult in the game (except wolves, but whatever thats not a class ult)

False. Please see Templar Nova (which is actually inferior to Standard).

It is amazing to me that some DKs still don't know how good they had it.

Oughash

Sanct16 wrote: »

Standard of Might is already a barely used Ultimate. This change and the huge nerf to Ultimate gain will just make it more less used.

For group play Shifting Standard will be far better as you only need Banner for the heal debuff. On the other hand there are easier ways to healdebuff as the healdebuffs dont stack anymore.

Saying that DKs only got a minor nerf is plain wrong tho as DKs only way to reliabely manage resources atm is Battle Roar due to expensive skills. Other classes will be a lot weaker due to not having Ultimate but still DKs will probably have a hard time with resource management.
The nerf to blockcost will make DKs far less tanky. The current hybrid meta of DKs in light armor doing good damage while staying tanky will be totally destroyed. You will now be able to chose between playing pure tank in full heavy doing absolutely no serious damage or playing a firemage in light armor without any way to kite or escape.

I think this is pretty accurate. As of the current pts version, it looks like bats+ferocious leap is the way to go on DKs. Also, whip is terrible now due to changes in armor and a stealth dmg nerf. I think we may see hybrid med/light DKs who utilize the stamina morphs of engulfing and unstable and add weapon skills for executes (DW or 2h).

Lava_Croft

Sanct16 wrote: »

The current hybrid meta of DKs in light armor doing good damage while staying tanky will be totally destroyed.

Something that has been long overdue. Finally (hopefully) no more god-like Light Armor tanks.

sirston

WebBull wrote: »

More bats, more bats, more bats. How did bats not get nerfed? And now vamps take 10% less fire damage with this patch.

because bats have been nerfed twice since release and for once they listened to Vampires to even out the cost of effect of being one. the 10% reduction was long over due.

Lhorion

This will hurt all of us!
The 7/7 light S&B Sorc,
the 7/7 light S&B NB
and sure... the DK.

AhPook_Is_Here

use corrosive armor, it is good. good group utility too. leave it to the others to deliver the aoe.

Aoe_Barbecue

DK's still have a solid AvA tank option in PTS 1.6, but DK tanks with a damage option are going to be a thing of the past unless the 5+ Heavy Armor, block cost reduce stacking, high stam, DoT stacking, Valkyn Skoria two-piece DK meta ends up being super effective. (The current 1.6 build is not release ready and if it is ... well.) 1.6 change seem to enforce more traditional MMO roles, which ESO previously avoided; it's what made the game fun, imo. I'll work something out

Columba

So tanks can't get god mode dps and perma invulnerability? The horror!

Mumyo

Rylana wrote: »

It is now the highest cost ult in the game (except wolves, but whatever thats not a class ult)
It had its synergy reduced to the point of only people literally in the middle of it could be affected/push X

-.- You know cause its not like people couldnt just roll out of it already, or just not stand in it, it didnt exactly move or anything.

DK confirmed for dead class. We shall all be stealth nightblade bads now.

[Moderator Note: Edited Inappropriate Title]

Supernova?

Cody

Agony is OP

Forestd16b14_ESO

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

Cody

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

People want to pew pew without thought like its a COD game.

sucks, I know:(

AriBoh

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

Considering the TTK in 1.6 those '4 seconds for scales to come down' could be about 12 deaths worth. And even in 1.5 taking the pressure off a good DK for that time can mean having your ass handed to you.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

What would your suggestion be for how to fix scales? We all agree it needed a nerf... personally, I say it should only reflect physical or magical projectiles (like Defensive Posture). But I am interested to hear what others think.

Armitas

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

How are you getting people to stay in your banner or prevent it from getting negated immediately? What do you find OP about it? Dawnbreaker hits like a truck now and I can use it 2.5 times in the same time it would take me to drop and banner and it get evacuated.

The morph is still works for a ranged build as you don't have to leave the banner when they do but you still lose the base of the ultimate.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

I don't see this as a nerf its balanced
1) not being able to shackle people in your standard unless you hit x near the banner mean that people are not CCed and being a stamina Nightblade (+30% stamina regen) WW (+15% stamina regen) and in seven medium armor with focused attacks running all the time (+40% stamina regen) having to use stamina to to everything (attack, CC break, block and rally heals) rolling out of the all the standards kills my Stam so I know other players are not able to "just" roll out

2)ults are special powers that your ultimate hits that hard and charges that fast and you can be locked in it. It cuts your healing and one of them can jump around a BALANCE was long over due

3) to that random VoB comment it's the most expensive Nightblade ultimate and you need to stand in it so unless you're standing on a flag/ running though a breach and get mad CCs not it's not as good as Soul Tether

Tankqull

Armitas wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

How are you getting people to stay in your banner or prevent it from getting negated immediately? What do you find OP about it? Dawnbreaker hits like a truck now and I can use it 2.5 times in the same time it would take me to drop and banner and it get evacuated.

The morph is still works for a ranged build as you don't have to leave the banner when they do but you still lose the base of the ultimate.

like you did before - make them waste their stam root them and place your standard. wich goes hand in hand with waiting for the first round of negates being used.
in other words the same way every other GTAE ulti has been used by every otherclass since the beginng of the game...
hello DK in a comparable league of all other classes and not 5 above...

Armitas

Tankqull wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

How are you getting people to stay in your banner or prevent it from getting negated immediately? What do you find OP about it? Dawnbreaker hits like a truck now and I can use it 2.5 times in the same time it would take me to drop and banner and it get evacuated.

The morph is still works for a ranged build as you don't have to leave the banner when they do but you still lose the base of the ultimate.

like you did before - make them waste their stam root them and place your standard. wich goes hand in hand with waiting for the first round of negates being used.
in other words the same way every other GTAE ulti has been used by every otherclass since the beginng of the game...
hello DK in a comparable league of all other classes and not 5 above...

Tankqull wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

How are you getting people to stay in your banner or prevent it from getting negated immediately? What do you find OP about it? Dawnbreaker hits like a truck now and I can use it 2.5 times in the same time it would take me to drop and banner and it get evacuated.

The morph is still works for a ranged build as you don't have to leave the banner when they do but you still lose the base of the ultimate.

like you did before - make them waste their stam root them and place your standard. wich goes hand in hand with waiting for the first round of negates being used.
in other words the same way every other GTAE ulti has been used by every otherclass since the beginng of the game...
hello DK in a comparable league of all other classes and not 5 above...

If people are actually getting stuck in a banner there is your problem right there^ guys. You wasted all your stamina instead of saving it for when you really needed it. Stamina management is essential. You lose your stamina you lose your life.

I wish there was only 1 round of negates on flags, but sadly there are typically 6-7 rounds of negates on both sides. You always wait for the first one but then there are 5 more waiting behind that.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

For you Magic builds stamina is nothing but for those of us who would be completely out of resources if you blocked and used stamina attacks it not so easy damn near every Magic build use resto staff three heavy attacks and boom full magic at range even with my bow heavy don't give you much back plus if mages had to use magic to CC break and run as well as block on top of attacking with magic you would feel our pain in the unbalanced game where light armored mages out live medium and heavy armored people

Tankqull

Armitas wrote: »

If people are actually getting stuck in a banner there is your problem right there^ guys. You wasted all your stamina instead of saving it for when you really needed it. Stamina management is essential. You lose your stamina you lose your life.

I wish there was only 1 round of negates on flags, but sadly there are typically 6-7 rounds of negates on both sides. You always wait for the first one but then there are 5 more waiting behind that.

if you are losing your ult to negates, there is your problem right there^ guy. you wasted all your ult instead of saving it for when you really can exploit it, ulti management is essential...

you see where this leads to?

as a dk you have te perfect toolset to make people use their stam to the point where they are vulnarable to your ulti, nearly no other class can do that on their own - and if they can their ults are garbage...
so stop crying because dks are brought down to a lvl close to other classes.

Armitas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

For you Magic builds stamina is nothing but for those of us who would be completely out of resources if you blocked and used stamina attacks it not so easy damn near every Magic build use resto staff three heavy attacks and boom full magic at range even with my bow heavy don't give you much back plus if mages had to use magic to CC break and run as well as block on top of attacking with magic you would feel our pain in the unbalanced game where light armored mages out live medium and heavy armored people

Light has no stamina regen or stamina reduction, or roll reduction. We feel that pain everyday. I have to manage my stamina tightly or I am dead. Heavy armor is really easy to outlive light armor due to dodge stacking and block reduction.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

But light has super magic recovery drop a healing ward and hardening ward and heavy resto for more magic even with all my stamina regen after cc breaking from a Crystal fragment, shield assault, that one socr that blinks though you and attacking it's very different.

We stamina build need stamina to go offense and defense you caster only lose the ability to block cast not even close to the same thing

Armitas

Tankqull wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

If people are actually getting stuck in a banner there is your problem right there^ guys. You wasted all your stamina instead of saving it for when you really needed it. Stamina management is essential. You lose your stamina you lose your life.

I wish there was only 1 round of negates on flags, but sadly there are typically 6-7 rounds of negates on both sides. You always wait for the first one but then there are 5 more waiting behind that.

if you are losing your ult to negates, there is your problem right there^ guy. you wasted all your ult instead of saving it for when you really can exploit it, ulti management is essential...

you see where this leads to?

as a dk you have te perfect toolset to make people use their stam to the point where they are vulnarable to your ulti, nearly no other class can do that on their own - and if they can their ults are garbage...
so stop crying because dks are brought down to a lvl close to other classes.

Such as? When in a string of negate rotations, to which the total is unknown, is the time to drop it? In contrast I can tell you rolling out of every talon and every piece of damage is a waste of your stamina. Where it leads is you not managing your resources. You need to learn to manage it because the ultimate change still won't help you not roll out of it.

I have a perfect toolset to make some people use their stamina. Most of the people I encounter don't fall for simple tricks geared at wasting their resources. Talons doesn't do that much damage and neither does whip to a properly geared player. Don't cry about DKs because you can't manage your resources. see where that leads too?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Your point is not a very good one
1) trick players in wasting stamina by rolling out your talons (300+ damage) whip (250+ damage and cheap with a possible free cost) so damage in line with most other powers that you would not just stand their and take
2) talons are a great way for DKs to lock you in their Standard
3) the DK class line was made for close ranged Melee combat standing toe to toe with a DK as a Nightblade not the smartest idea my class is made for stealth and burst damage
4) what level of bird brain stands in a CC against a class you can't range and is made for Melee