Standard of Might - Nerfed

Armitas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Your point is not a very good one
1) trick players in wasting stamina by rolling out your talons (300+ damage) whip (250+ damage and cheap with a possible free cost) so damage in line with most other powers that you would not just stand their and take
2) talons are a great way for DKs to lock you in their Standard
3) the DK class line was made for close ranged Melee combat standing toe to toe with a DK as a Nightblade not the smartest idea my class is made for stealth and burst damage
4) what level of bird brain stands in a CC against a class you can't range and is made for Melee

1. That is not much damage at all, and I stand right in it, I also have fire resist like everyone should have in cyrodiil. It's not cheap, it's 420 magicka unreduced, and it costs that plus stamina to catch back up to the roll out with a weapon charge.
2. That lock requires them to be out of stamina. Which is the whole complaint, a 250 ultimate that requires the person be out of stamina, and rooted to be effective.
3. Um NB can go toe toe at higher numbers than DKs are you kidding me right now? We just had a thread about a guy complaining because a NB was 1v17ing his group.
4. You should have ranged damage and melee damage on your bar. Turn and melee them. You can even cast sparks it's like RS for melee (though going away in 1.6).
5. Changing the ultimate cost won't help you get out of the banner if you can't get out of it now.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

1) I don't wear fire resist if your whole argument rest on the fact that you think everyone is buff against the damage of fire then you're crazy Im not wasting a stamina recovery or weapon power to lower base damage from one class

2) of course a fire base attack doesn't hit YOU to hard you have fire resist that's like when I say my Argonian with like 1000+ natural poison and disease resistance don't die offen from poison and lethal arrow they still hit hard I just have a buff against it.

3)VoB cost 200 ticks for less with no way to lock them in it

4) and before you even try to make a point about Nightblades I have 8 Nightblades I don't play the other classes the only way to do AoE with a NB IS with sap essence or some weapon power no other class AoEs (Lotus Fan .8 second cast time damn near always gets blocked and path of darkness complete trash they need to stay in it for 11!!! Seconds to do the damage anythiiing else can do it a tenth the time

5) yes as a Nightblade I can single target nuke people but if you're standing in talons then the DK can drop ash cloud on your head back to my fighting a Melee class in Melee range point

Armitas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

1) I don't wear fire resist if your whole argument rest on the fact that you think everyone is buff against the damage of fire then you're crazy Im not wasting a stamina recovery or weapon power to lower base damage from one class

2) of course a fire base attack doesn't hit YOU to hard you have fire resist that's like when I say my Argonian with like 1000+ natural poison and disease resistance don't die offen from poison and lethal arrow they still hit hard I just have a buff against it.

3)VoB cost 200 ticks for less with no way to lock them in it

4) and before you even try to make a point about Nightblades I have 8 Nightblades I don't play the other classes the only way to do AoE with a NB IS with sap essence or some weapon power no other class AoEs (Lotus Fan .8 second cast time damn near always gets blocked and path of darkness complete trash they need to stay in it for 11!!! Seconds to do the damage anythiiing else can do it a tenth the time

5) yes as a Nightblade I can single target nuke people but if you're standing in talons then the DK can drop ash cloud on your head back to my fighting a Melee class in Melee range point

1. It's not the base damage of 1 class. Fire is prevalent outside of DK because of the destruction staff passives. Out of all the elemental resistances fire resist will give you the most run for the buck. You don't need it to stand in talons as the first hit is physical and the dot is fire. The dot is less than 200 damage spread out over 4 seconds. Surely you can survive that OP damage without fire resist. It might even be fire/physical mixed.

2. Talons doesn't hit me hard because it's talons, it hits even less because I am geared for Cyrodiil. Whip is both physical and fire, if you are in medium armor you have more armor than me and I don't use armor buffs.

3. I don't disagree, it's wasted just as much but it's also 50 less ultimate.
4. Why the heck do you have 8 nightblades? Not sure what your point is here.
5. Um you have blur or evasion in 5 medium armor. whats your complaint, do the same. Or spark him. Oh and guess what, we are losing the miss chance on ash cloud now too.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

1) I have all Nightblade for RP reasons and my point is I have used every single power with all the possible builds within reason and so I know how to maximize my class

2)stacking miss change leaves little room for attacks and heals

3)I see my shock rings then fire (maybe because people like you have fore resistance) and they are sorcs

4) your point about my having my armor is moot cause DK fire damage is dampened by spell resistance which you light armor has in spades

5i can't remember a DK that used talons and don't spam them so yea

6) so one morph is lossing miss change the other one is not

Armitas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

1) I have all Nightblade for RP reasons and my point is I have used every single power with all the possible builds within reason and so I know how to maximize my class

2)stacking miss change leaves little room for attacks and heals

3)I see my shock rings then fire (maybe because people like you have fore resistance) and they are sorcs

4) your point about my having my armor is moot cause DK fire damage is dampened by spell resistance which you light armor has in spades

5i can't remember a DK that used talons and don't spam them so yea

6) so one morph is lossing miss change the other one is not

1. You are dying to banner because you ran out of stamina when it mattered. As much as you think you are maximized you are not as other people don't have a problem getting out of it.
2. The same is true for all classes, including the DK.
3. Sure sorcs synergize with lightening but a lot of their skills are bugged and not triggering against lightening resist despite being lightening skills.
4. DK's damagers are mix of physical and fire damage within the same attack. Both physical resist and fire resist will mitigate whip, talons, and searing strike.
5. As long as it continues to waste stamina sure. If we want banner to work we have to get our enemy CC and at zero stamina. There are other ways to do it, like fossilized or stone fist, it doesn't need to be talons.
6. all morphs are losing miss chance. The skill is terrible right now on pts.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

You know plain and simple after seeing DKs soloing entire resources and taking on people one v 20 I don't feel bad about any of your nerfs

Armitas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You know plain and simple after seeing DKs soloing entire resources and taking on people one v 20 I don't feel bad about any of your nerfs

Seen NB's do the same. I have also seen a Emperor/DK/Vamp die 1v1 to a NB.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

No you seen vampire Nightblades no normal ones

Armitas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

No you seen vampire Nightblades no normal ones

If you know NB's can do it why hide the fact and make it seem like the DK is something special? You don't need bats to do it. All it takes to 1v20 is to have 20 people that don't know what they are doing and 1 who does.

ToRelax

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

1) I have all Nightblade for RP reasons and my point is I have used every single power with all the possible builds within reason and so I know how to maximize my class

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You know plain and simple after seeing DKs soloing entire resources and taking on people one v 20 I don't feel bad about any of your nerfs

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

No you seen vampire Nightblades no normal ones

A little tip, since you obviously don't know your class very well despite having 8 chars of it, try out the other classes to learn a bit more about NBs...
Every class can easily solo resources, without being vamp (or wolf, for that matter).

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Sap essence and VoB or Tether duh

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

But nice try trolling

Lava_Croft

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

No you seen vampire Nightblades no normal ones

Without being a Vampire it's actually easier to solo resources as a Nightblade, since you don't need the Bats and get hit less by the guards' fire damage.

Bouvin

Rylana wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Welcome to the nightblade class

oh thats mature. there was never anything wrong with nightblades to begin with.

Except Cloak being broken since like 1.3.

Oh, and Agony being useless.

And no class based shields like the other classes.

Other than that, I can agree.

Bouvin

WRX wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ult gain seems pretty fast anyways. Maybe faster than before.

I have to assume you were a stam nightblade then?

Resto staff light attacks FTW.

Lava_Croft

Bouvin wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Welcome to the nightblade class

oh thats mature. there was never anything wrong with nightblades to begin with.

Except Cloak being broken since like 1.3.

Oh, and Agony being useless.

And no class based shields like the other classes.

Other than that, I can agree.

The lack of class shields on the Nightblade is countered by its unmatched ability when it comes to stealth and burst damage, as well as several class abilities that provide healing.

Bouvin

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Welcome to the nightblade class

oh thats mature. there was never anything wrong with nightblades to begin with.

Except Cloak being broken since like 1.3.

Oh, and Agony being useless.

And no class based shields like the other classes.

Other than that, I can agree.

The lack of class shields on the Nightblade is countered by its unmatched ability when it comes to stealth and burst damage, as well as several class abilities that provide healing.

Note "Cloak being broken since like 1.3". It's almost useless in PvP because your opponent can just continue attacking you (not just with aoe) and break it. And that's when it doesn't just break on it's own.

As far as class heals. Please tell me that Swallow Soul does as much healing as Green Dragon Blood. Even followed up by Entropy with points in Mage line.

Ya, Sap Essense can heal really well... in PvE. But if you tried to sap a zerg ball in PvP you'd just get talon spammed/knocked down and dead before the heal even went off. This is why you don't see any of the good NBs running Sap, and a lot of them run a Resto staff and don't use Swallow soul.

With the changes in 1.6 not having shields is going to be a huge detriment to NB because 1.6 is all about stacking shields and we don't have one.

Spangla

Rylana wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Welcome to the nightblade class

oh thats mature. there was never anything wrong with nightblades to begin with.

Yea ok.....

DK ostrich

Lava_Croft

Bouvin wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Welcome to the nightblade class

oh thats mature. there was never anything wrong with nightblades to begin with.

Except Cloak being broken since like 1.3.

Oh, and Agony being useless.

And no class based shields like the other classes.

Other than that, I can agree.

The lack of class shields on the Nightblade is countered by its unmatched ability when it comes to stealth and burst damage, as well as several class abilities that provide healing.

Note "Cloak being broken since like 1.3". It's almost useless in PvP because your opponent can just continue attacking you (not just with aoe) and break it. And that's when it doesn't just break on it's own.

As far as class heals. Please tell me that Swallow Soul does as much healing as Green Dragon Blood. Even followed up by Entropy with points in Mage line.

Ya, Sap Essense can heal really well... in PvE. But if you tried to sap a zerg ball in PvP you'd just get talon spammed/knocked down and dead before the heal even went off. This is why you don't see any of the good NBs running Sap, and a lot of them run a Resto staff and don't use Swallow soul.

With the changes in 1.6 not having shields is going to be a huge detriment to NB because 1.6 is all about stacking shields and we don't have one.

Nightblade cloaking is broken, but not nearly so broken that it's useless. I've been using it since pre-release and I depend on it heavily. This would not have been possible if it's as broken as you say it is.
Nightblade heals don't have to heal as well as for example Green Dragon Blood, since Dragon Knights have no real way of escaping a fight. Doing 1 on 1 comparisons between skills while completely ignoring the bigger picture is just silly. Maybe Dragon Knights should start to complain that they cannot go invisible on demand?

Just about every good Nightblade I know uses Sap Essence to tank and heal while doing 1vX in PvP.

Shield stacking can also be done pretty well by Nightblades, who can just complement their awesome arsenal of class skills with Healing Ward and Harness Magicka, for example.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Welcome to the nightblade class

oh thats mature. there was never anything wrong with nightblades to begin with.

Except Cloak being broken since like 1.3.

Oh, and Agony being useless.

And no class based shields like the other classes.

Other than that, I can agree.

The lack of class shields on the Nightblade is countered by its unmatched ability when it comes to stealth and burst damage, as well as several class abilities that provide healing.

Healing powers really like Mark target (heals after you kill the target), Killers Blade (heals after you kill the target) not very useful unless you can kill that one guy before he blink away, use Green Dragon's Blood or God Damn breathe of Life, Strife (bread and butter) and of course the power no one uses Refreshing Path cause why anyone ever levels this power is far beyond me.

Half of the DoTs in the game will break your stealth the second you use it meaning their are power (all Nightblade class DoTs) that you can't use if you run Shadow Cloak and some DoTs that don't break your Cloak so the whole "stealth" BS means you can't use half of the better DoTs cause then no Cloak.

As a side note unless a Nightblade uses a full set of Night's Silents, Shadow Dancer or they are a Vampire the movement speed while Stealth (even with Concealed Weapons) is far to slow to get away and it's only 2.9 secs and it's not cheap to cast so no class shields and the trade off sucks

Lava_Croft

Your own outgoing DoT's do not break Cloak and haven't done so for a while.

While 'Dark Joke' is annoyingly broken, in most cases the skill does allow me to escape hairy situations. Especially when you look at the Nightblade class some more, realize you have a passive for potion quaffing and start to quaff Invisibility + Speed potions combined with Cloak spam.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

First off Agony and Crippling grasp (use them every single day) still breaks my stealth (only use Dark Cloak for the Shadow Barrier and DoT removal) so thats that plus I have a power to turns me invisible if I need to use a potion for it to work then the power has failed plus the point of an escape is to escape not escape if I can use a potion

Nijjion

You cannot call a skill OP when it can be counted by a simple roll dodge or negated by another skill.

Said in another thread but the change in cost wasn't needed in addition of the ultimate change... however if they were to revert the changes to ult generation I would understand keeping the ult cost of standard.

If they have to keep the cost with the generation changes they should revert the damage/reduction damage to the games original % (which was 30% I think).

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

As a Ultimate spamming Nightblade I like the Ultimate generation change it's a special power that was not intended to be a one hit killer or an spam able thing

Lhorion

What is the name of this discussion?

Right... "Standard of Might - Nerfed"

Your thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149746/nb-useless#latest

Lava_Croft

Lhorion wrote: »

What is the name of this discussion?

Right... "Standard of Might - Nerfed"

Your thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149746/nb-useless#latest

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

It's funny how you made a new post but you're still QQing that you can't spam your ultimate and you can't win without it

Armitas

Lhorion wrote: »

What is the name of this discussion?

Right... "Standard of Might - Nerfed"

Your thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149746/nb-useless#latest

Dark cloak is like punctuation you can't have a conversation without it...
"Man, stink horn is broken, its only got one positive".
" Yeah but its not as broken as dark cloak."

To avoid confusion on topics all thread titles just should come with the prefix "Dark cloak... and".
"Dark Cloak...and the cost of nirncrux"
"Dark Cloak... and the drop rate of warlock rings"

CP5

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a DK and I'm saying this. Standers was OP and this nerf is a good thing and DK is not a "dead class" now cause Dragons leap been buffed for more damage and less cost . How ever I don not agree with scales reflecting only 4 projectiles now. Yes scales needed re-worked but making reflect a set amount wasn't it cause those 4 shots STILL deal 35% more damage. So all you crystal fragment and lethal arrow spammers are still gonna get killed by scales. But is it really that hard to wait the 4 seconds for scales to come down (cause it only last for 4 seconds one of the shortest skill times in the game I assume) then to use your crystals and arrows?

What would your suggestion be for how to fix scales? We all agree it needed a nerf... personally, I say it should only reflect physical or magical projectiles (like Defensive Posture). But I am interested to hear what others think.

Random idea here but scales could get the same treatment as Crit Surge. Make it so that it can only reflect X number of projectiles a second then any more projectiles after that number can hit. That way people could see the scales, throw a few weak ranged attacks to put scales on cool-down then start dealing damage.

Sanct16

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

The current hybrid meta of DKs in light armor doing good damage while staying tanky will be totally destroyed.

Something that has been long overdue. Finally (hopefully) no more god-like Light Armor tanks.

This is of course totally subjective but I think it was pretty cool to have such a combination. On the one hand because was strong (although far away from godlike when not fighting pve scrubs on chillrend) but mostly because it actually actually was different. What we will see in 1.6 will probably be the traditional archetypes. Heavy armor tanks, light armor mages, medium armor gankers with the traditional weapons.
Heavy armor has always been tanky but had bad resource management and very bad damage so it wasnt very tempting.
Light armor had good damage and with 1h&S even good tanking so it was the way to go for building a 1vX sustained dps build. Before they removed the camps I used to play resto/destro woth clouding swarm. It was fun too but just too squishy so i changed my build.
Note: Light armor tanks had far worse dps than real dd's as nearly every 2nd - 3rd skill you use is defensive just like reflect/cinderstorm/igneous shield/etc

I would have been totally supporting further buffs to heavy armor to make it better and maybe some nerfs to 1h&S damage mitigation.
What ZOS did in 1.6 however with ultimate gain nerf and blockcost increase is just totally destroying this type of playstyle. You will now be able to either tank or dps but hardly anything between that.