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Nightblades 1.6 Discussion
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Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »Hmm, seems to be affecting 3 enemies as well instead of 2. Bug?
Quick vid:
http://youtu.be/70oMlr6svFw
Report it! Likely fixed instantly for NB as ZOS would have to commit seppuku if allowing any advantage for NB.
Now if this were a DK skill ZOS would let it go live for a year and later update tooltip to the empowered version.
"Mass Hysteria (morph): This ability now hits up to three targets. These targets will be affected by fear for three seconds, then affected by Minor Maim debuff and have their movement speed reduced for 4 seconds."
He is fearing with the base ability that states 2 enemies and making 3-6 mobs feared from one cast. Sort of the point of his post is how I took it.
Also, it seems like things are running a lot faster while feared now. Or is it just me?0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »Hmm, seems to be affecting 3 enemies as well instead of 2. Bug?
Quick vid:http://youtu.be/70oMlr6svFw
Report it! Likely fixed instantly for NB as ZOS would have to commit seppuku if allowing any advantage for NB.
Now if this were a DK skill ZOS would let it go live for a year and later update tooltip to the empowered version.
"Mass Hysteria (morph): This ability now hits up to three targets. These targets will be affected by fear for three seconds, then affected by Minor Maim debuff and have their movement speed reduced for 4 seconds."
He is fearing with the base ability that states 2 enemies and making 3-6 mobs feared from one cast. Sort of the point of his post is how I took it.
Ah, my apologies. Seems I skimmed through the post where he explains it's Aspect of Terror (unmorphed version) and was distracted by BIG SHINY VIDEO, lol.
Sorry.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think that the changes to ambush and killers blade are great. I run both magia and Stam builds. Although I prefer stam. One I like impale more but am willing to adapt to killers blade. I stopped using this ability cause it was not strong enough on an all stamina build which took away my execute for stam builds. I do understand that ambush takes away some dps for magika based builds but when so many other class builds are magika is it not only fair that stam gets some dps abilities and not just crap ones that Noone wanted. Now as a magika build u need to decide between more damage or the increase in power on next attack. So pick your poison. Also it does deplete your stam quicker which means stam builds will not be able to spam to conserve resources. Overall this puts stam builds in contention with mag builds imo.
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pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭lol nice. Imagine fear bombing in Cyrodiil if it actually has the new aoe cap of 60 or whatever.
Sweet!
Just done some more tests on wasps, I was fearing 10+ at a time so seems its the AoE cap limit being applied. I guarantee of all the bugs that will make it to live, this won't be one of them.2 -
Vordae✭✭✭So does Shadow Cloak actually work in 1.6?
There seem to be some bugs still, BUT the changes to stealth actually give Shadow Cloak a place on the battlefield. Stealth is now LoS based, and it's nearly impossible to stealth if someone is watching you, nbs now more than ever can be known as the stealthy class.
I've always found use for it when out of combat as simply an improved stealth. In combat though it failed hard too often. Love for that to change.
I've always found use for it when out of combat as simply an improved stealth. In combat though it failed hard too often. Love for that to change.
I've noticed the same, most templar skills leave me visible for everyone. I believe purge+dark cloak need to be used in unison to prevent breaking, but it shouldn't need to be that way.
lol ya that appears to be the universal fix for every mmo. Haven't seen a vanish type spell work in nearly every single mmo I have ever played.
Worked fine in WoW.
Just saying...
It took years to get it that way...
Just saying...3 -
Vordae✭✭✭I also do not like (been very vocal about it) that we are forced into a morph instead of a method created to simply adapt the power to your highest stat. So far I think I can still maintain the build concept for my magicka NB. The greatest hit is with lotus fan SUCKING as the magicka morph option. It should have been buffed big time. We can always stick with the non-morph but it further takes away options.
I know the devs are intelligent people. I know they can see they are hurting players in order to fix issues for other players. I am just annoyed that opted for an easier fix for them over actually solving the issue for everyone. It screams corner cutting.
The old excuse of "we'll fix the fix later" is wearing VERY thin.
Making every ability in the game scale off your highest stat is a bad idea. It sounds good on paper but what will really end up happening is everyone will ensure they have 1 magicka more then stamina at all times. This make all skills take magicka and your defensive stat is only used for defense. I keep seeing this idea and i just don't understand how people don't see it will totally limits there options far greater then anything currently in the game. A change like this would make every build in the game for every single class a magicka build.1 -
Problem with morphs is that they provide for two different outcomes of that spell and if u want it in stamina and magica version u would need to have 4 morphs - and that would be full flexibility . Basicaly if they want to do it right they have to drop one of morphs and other one give in stamina and magica version. Morph taking higher resource denominator is completely bad idea coz than they would compromise sustainability of higher resource. So - or 4 morphs per each spell or they have to leave just one morph in stamina or magica version.1
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helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭The siphoning mage, especially Sap/Veil combo has to be rebuilt. Ulti generation is now taking twice longer than in live and Veil is shortened. OTOH Funnel now leaves some extra magicka to be spent to something else to compensate the veil nerf.
- Blur is now viable. Very good change.
- Agony will stay useless until the cast time is removed. The Craglorn Illusionists and Hel Ra fire mages kill you in few seconds. Make Agony instant. It is as simple as that.
- Grim Focus: the 8 light attacks should be reduced to 5. Then it's more in line with rotation. Also it's unclear how it works in long fights. Does the Assassin's Will come repeatedly or do i need to cast Will and the Grim to restart it? It's too complicated to use now reliably.
- Mark Target got finally rid of the debuff - good. But i still think it's rather useless in PvE. It's not needed with regular mobs and i assume bosses are immune to it. Didn't actually test.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone2 -
GreyPilgrim✭✭✭So does Shadow Cloak actually work in 1.6?
There seem to be some bugs still, BUT the changes to stealth actually give Shadow Cloak a place on the battlefield. Stealth is now LoS based, and it's nearly impossible to stealth if someone is watching you, nbs now more than ever can be known as the stealthy class.
errrr... yeah... for 3 secs at a time....
Are you s***ting me? The new LoS system is a total fail as far as I'm concerned. There were, in fact, abilities like Concealed Weapon, that actually gave us advantages to using stealth. And the new blur morph that increases movement speed might have been useful. But right now it is impossible to really use stealth effectively in AVA.
And Dark Cloak was ALWAYS useful in AVA. While I realize that everyone always gets hung up on the crit thing that shadowy disguise does, the dot removers on Dark meant it actually allowed you to stay stealthed, and you could use it to transition nicely into regular stealth.
Now all it does is provide me 3 sec's to get f'n nowhere before my opponents whack me. And have you forgotten Invis pots? (though, apparently those are also broken atm) They do roughly the same thing, so it's not like we have any lock on invisibility either.
Seriously, if this new stealth setup is actually intended, I really am gone. ATM, the only viable NB build for AVA appears to be stacking up on heavy armor and running around spamming Sap Essence. Boorriinnggg....6 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was using my stam NB build just fine on the PTS. the changes to ambush and killer blade make me way more effective. that said, there is obvious bugs with the stealth right now. just wait for the patch for it this coming week. patience. this is a lot of new crap and that is what the PTS is for. You didnt excatly expect it to be polished did you? It will be a work in progress for the next few weeks and they are just getting feedback the last four or five days. give them a chance to fix it.0 -
Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭I also do not like (been very vocal about it) that we are forced into a morph instead of a method created to simply adapt the power to your highest stat. So far I think I can still maintain the build concept for my magicka NB. The greatest hit is with lotus fan SUCKING as the magicka morph option. It should have been buffed big time. We can always stick with the non-morph but it further takes away options.
I know the devs are intelligent people. I know they can see they are hurting players in order to fix issues for other players. I am just annoyed that opted for an easier fix for them over actually solving the issue for everyone. It screams corner cutting.
The old excuse of "we'll fix the fix later" is wearing VERY thin.
Making every ability in the game scale off your highest stat is a bad idea. It sounds good on paper but what will really end up happening is everyone will ensure they have 1 magicka more then stamina at all times. This make all skills take magicka and your defensive stat is only used for defense. I keep seeing this idea and i just don't understand how people don't see it will totally limits there options far greater then anything currently in the game. A change like this would make every build in the game for every single class a magicka build.
You missed my entire point I was talking about. I don't care what alternate fix could be used ... as long as it doesn't nerf others in order to fix stamina builds. All NB magicka players know that skill selections are limited for them because the class design is split between melee and ranged. Splitting more choices by making some stamina hurts build options further. A better fix could have been created especially when the horribly under-powered morph: Lotus Fan was left for the magicka choice.Edited by Tamanous on 31 January 2015 07:363 -
Beleron✭✭✭so they give 3% more to summon shade. However the dual shades are still pointless. Unless you wana give up a teleport just to have a second shade to drain stam from those holding down block. Which I DO NOT KNOW why you would, if you want to kill there stam, theres many other abilities that could be more useful. SO, the debuff doesn't stack, and they STILL ONLY ATTACK 1 MOB, so even with 2, u don't debuff 2 targets and the debuff doesn't stack, so why have 2 ? This morph needs a serious revamp. The skill is good, but having 2 shades is bloody pointless. Maybe since the teleport is great in PVP, make the dual cut ur max hp, so you get 33%, each shade gets 33%, and make them damageable, so in pve you could use them as scapegoats and run, or in a dungeon, use them to split up the mobs dmg so a shade gets 1 hit, not you. Then have hitting the button again cancel it and you get all remaining hp. so if you and both ur shades had 50% hp at the time ( 50% of the 33% after split ), and you cancelled, you'd have 50% of ur full max hp. I mean some do use the dual to burn peoples stam, but there are SO MANY things you could do with this morph, then just have the extra shade be a dump to kill off a bit of stam.1
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »I was using my stam NB build just fine on the PTS. the changes to ambush and killer blade make me way more effective. that said, there is obvious bugs with the stealth right now. just wait for the patch for it this coming week. patience. this is a lot of new crap and that is what the PTS is for. You didnt excatly expect it to be polished did you? It will be a work in progress for the next few weeks and they are just getting feedback the last four or five days. give them a chance to fix it.
Every patch that arrives, stealth becomes more broken & useless.
This has been the case since beta (not the console beta we've been playing, the real one).
Zenimax has had about 27 chances to fix it, but has instead made it more broken than before one patch after another.4 -
Helluin✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »I was using my stam NB build just fine on the PTS. the changes to ambush and killer blade make me way more effective. that said, there is obvious bugs with the stealth right now. just wait for the patch for it this coming week. patience. this is a lot of new crap and that is what the PTS is for. You didnt excatly expect it to be polished did you? It will be a work in progress for the next few weeks and they are just getting feedback the last four or five days. give them a chance to fix it.
Every patch that arrives, stealth becomes more broken & useless.
This has been the case since beta (not the console beta we've been playing, the real one).
Zenimax has had about 27 chances to fix it, but has instead made it more broken than before one patch after another.
Maybe they can give a try to how they fixed it in other games.
As about Catalyst: I don't like the new passive at all.
Maybe it's an incentive to buy potions in Crown Store, I don't know.
Surely 8 ultimate points are good but to make it usefull you have to burn potions always and it means farm a lot for ingredients or golds.
I'd prefer the previous - live bonus or a mix between the two with 50% bonus.
Executioner: the magicka gained is over time and 50% less than Destruction Expert for destruction staves (same utility but killing a target with a destruction spell or staff attack).
I'd prefer something else (like X% more dmg or crit on targets under a certain ammount of health) or more magicka.
I don't really like Drain Power consuming Magicka or Stamina, maybe better a Strife morph based on stamina.
Edited by Helluin on 31 January 2015 11:59"... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It does not, NO buffs/debuffs of a similar type stack anymore.PlagueMonk wrote: »Can someone verify that The new blur stacks with the med armor evasion skill?2 -
Sparky617✭✭✭The change to stamina for ambush and sneak attack pretty much broke my magicka based build. I wish they'd just make class skills based off of what ever stat is higher. Magicka or stamina0 -
Shuichi✭✭✭PlagueMonk wrote: »Can someone verify that The new blur stacks with the med armor evasion skill?
From what I see only their minor buffs can correlate, they don't seem to stack.
Hand of Sithis - Daggerfall Covenant0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭The change to stamina for ambush and sneak attack pretty much broke my magicka based build. I wish they'd just make class skills based off of what ever stat is higher. Magicka or stamina
I see your point but now the skills are much better for my stam build. after all, stam builds had no skills at all. its nice to have some. That said I was still using that skill as a stam build and was effective when used right (i.e. ambush to death stroke. or ambush to impale to maximize my attack power.)1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »The change to stamina for ambush and sneak attack pretty much broke my magicka based build. I wish they'd just make class skills based off of what ever stat is higher. Magicka or stamina
I see your point but now the skills are much better for my stam build. after all, stam builds had no skills at all. its nice to have some. That said I was still using that skill as a stam build and was effective when used right (i.e. ambush to death stroke. or ambush to impale to maximize my attack power.)
Seems like the solution you quoted would still be better for everybody, instead of "oh well, my stam build is fine, so whatevs".
: P2 -
Shuichi✭✭✭Seems like the solution you quoted would still be better for everybody, instead of "oh well, my stam build is fine, so whatevs".
: P
I understand your point, but I've played with ambush for months and haven't complained about having to use that pool even though I'm completely stamina based. The devs made this decision and we should try to work with it before slamming them on it. I have a feeling a lot of magicka builds could actually benefit from having stamina based morphs.
Hand of Sithis - Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Berinima✭✭✭
How so? As a stamina build you need your magicka pool for nothing vital. As a magicka build however you need every pixel of your stamina bar for blocking, dodge rolling, stun breaking etc. In addition, the new meta seems to dictate people to dump everything they have into their main resource due to the removal of soft caps. Tying an integral combat mechanic as a gap closer to stamina would be outright stupid.I understand your point, but I've played with ambush for months and haven't complained about having to use that pool even though I'm completely stamina based. The devs made this decision and we should try to work with it before slamming them on it. I have a feeling a lot of magicka builds could actually benefit from having stamina based morphs.
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Lynnessa✭✭✭✭Some interesting changes that look to affect just about every Nightblade out there in some way.
Looking forward to seeing what makes it to live. I am constantly tweaking but I always end up falling back to the same loadout I usually use because it is effective in any situation... so I won't mind having my status quo upset a little bit.
Keep testing it out guys! I don't do PTS because I still put my playtime into progressing my character (VR10 and well into Cadwell's Gold now! I'm coming for you, Cyrodiil!)--I know I'm not the only one who reads what those who venture to PTS have found! So, thanks.Edited by Lynnessa on 6 February 2015 02:081 -
Shuichi✭✭✭How so? As a stamina build you need your magicka pool for nothing vital. As a magicka build however you need every pixel of your stamina bar for blocking, dodge rolling, stun breaking etc. In addition, the new meta seems to dictate people to dump everything they have into their main resource due to the removal of soft caps. Tying an integral combat mechanic as a gap closer to stamina would be outright stupid.
We have very specific ways to improve our stamina regeneration to amazing levels. I think I now have the perfect amount of magics skills and stamina skills balanced.
The meta should not be about spamming ambush, it should be used in the same way The 2h and 1h+s gap closers work. There are new ways to keep your opponent closer to you as a Melee fighter it will just take time for many to adjust.
I think my playstyle is finally the way I want it to be with 1.6, and now all I have to focus on is finding ways to become more survivable; which will happen with champion points.
I also disagree about the new meta, I think we need more time testing to determine that answer, it's pretty clear ZoS is trying to stay away from that route.Hand of Sithis - Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Helluin✭✭✭After more accurate tests, I add something.
- Ambush: the stamina cost of this ability should be reduced by around 20% or more. If you check the costs of other gap closing skills like Shield Charge, Critical Charge and their morphs, this is less than the stamina cost of Ambush. On live servers for a stamina build this skill is good because it consumes magicka, so not the main resource pool, while on PTS it consumes stamina and quite a lot. A reduction of the cost would be better for stamina builds but also for the magicka builds still using this skill as gap closing - stun utility and for the buff on next attack.
- Death Stroke and its morphs: the tooltip is not clear because according to what written, the damage increased is always up on the target after having used it. Is this bonus damage always up on the target or does it have a duration like on live servers?
- Surprise Attack: the armor debuff is working on PTS only from stealth or invisible, while on live servers it always works. It's better to have the armor debuff working always because Shadow Cloak or its morphs during a fight consume too much magicka, an ammount that is a lot higher when compared to live servers and hardly usable by a stamina build. If Surprise Attack keeps the armor debuff utility just from stealth/invisible, the stamina cost should be reduced.
- Strife: what do you think about a stamina morph for this skill? Imho it can be an interesting solution to help stamina builds with some healing during a fight and not just when a target is killed.
- Cripple - Debilitate: the magicka gained upon killing a target with this DoT on is always 2520, no matter the rank or the cost of the skill. On the patch notes instead it's written that the cost is refunded.
- Sap Essence: this ability grants both Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, not only Major Sorcery as written in the patch notes.
- All the utility and buff skills consuming magicka: the magicka cost of these skills (Blur, Mark Target, Grim Focus, Shadow Cloak, Aspect of Terror, Summon Shade and their morphs) should be reduced because especially for a stamina build that cost is too high.
Has anyone tested Manifestation of Terror in Cyrodiil?
Is the animation/effect on the ground visible by the opposite alliance members?
I met nobody using it. If anyone wants to test this, please write me a pm.Edited by Helluin on 6 February 2015 12:52"... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."3 -
Nacario✭✭✭
Has anyone tested Manifestation of Terror in Cyrodiil?
Is the animation/effect on the ground visible by the opposite alliance members?
I met nobody using it. If anyone wants to test this, please write me a pm.
I have tested manifistation of terror with an opposite faction member. He couldnt see the red ring, only saw it the second he got feared.
What I would like to see is if I can cast it on ground and walk backwards, and when someone charges at me, will they be feared as they charge through it?
I think the trap is interesting tool for a bow user, kinda like hunter gameplay from wow (lol), but on the downside the other morph has the snare and 15% dmg reduction debuff, and it almost seemes are if that morph casts fear faster.. this trap has an animation to be played, and once on ground it casts. If u use summon shade then ull get ur 15% dmg reduction from there.1 -
Helluin✭✭✭@Nacario thanks for the info mate, if you want we can test it.
About gameplay I thought the same, even if I quit it around 7 years ago.
On live server I use Mass Hysteria but the trap seems improved and fearing everyone is really interesting."... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."0 -
Nacario✭✭✭Yeah its good either way as a bow user bcuz, or i would think, that in general one would have the fear on a buff bar like a two hander. And when engaged on, u have to spend a second to swap weapon and fear, whereas with the trap u can pop it on ground while stealthed. When u then engage the enemy u have the cc to "hide" in or behind. But yeah, it would be awesome if it actually feared people who charged through it0
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Fatalyis✭✭✭✭Yeah its good either way as a bow user bcuz, or i would think, that in general one would have the fear on a buff bar like a two hander. And when engaged on, u have to spend a second to swap weapon and fear, whereas with the trap u can pop it on ground while stealthed. When u then engage the enemy u have the cc to "hide" in or behind. But yeah, it would be awesome if it actually feared people who charged through it
Be interesting if it feared a Sorc if they Bolt Escaped through it....1 -
Shuichi✭✭✭Yeah its good either way as a bow user bcuz, or i would think, that in general one would have the fear on a buff bar like a two hander. And when engaged on, u have to spend a second to swap weapon and fear, whereas with the trap u can pop it on ground while stealthed. When u then engage the enemy u have the cc to "hide" in or behind. But yeah, it would be awesome if it actually feared people who charged through it
Be interesting if it feared a Sorc if they Bolt Escaped through it....
It won't, skills like the sorcs minefield aren't procced if someone charges through them so I don't see it happening with our skills either
Hand of Sithis - Daggerfall Covenant0
