Thoughts on Update Notes 1.6? (PTS Forum) affecting PVP Builds, Playstyle

KBKB

ZOS have no idea to do with the things they claimed they were fixing/improving/needed love the real shocker here is you are all surprised?

RIP ESO

Grim13

There seems to be a pvp server on the pts... haderus.

GET THERE NOW!

DisgracefulMind

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

(Nearly) Every build is now obsolete. Commence operation Theory Craft on PTS.

Mine got buffed a lot. Especially with the addition of the bomb ability. I'm so happy!

I run a very similar build to your's. All I need to do now is figure out champion system point placement and gear adjustments. Ultimate gain isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, so it's not as bad as everyone doomed it to be. I was considering using eruption instead of cinder for the initial damage it does, but seeing as I use cinder for the stam restore mostly, I wonder if it'd just worth it to stick with cinder for the cheaper cost. Really the only skill I've been heavily debating on. And after testing scales out, the nerf really isn't all that bad. I'm so excited to get this all figured out and continue facerolling all the noobs who whine about DKs. (:

Columba

Ishammael wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

(Nearly) Every build is now obsolete. Commence operation Theory Craft on PTS.

Mine got buffed a lot. Especially with the addition of the bomb ability. I'm so happy!

That bomb ability is gonna get nerfed so hard so fast. Can you imagine a squad of suicide bombers wrecking people? Oh it's gonna be so fun. People will cry so much.

Also, are you talking about your DK or your Sorc? If DK (based on your bars in your vids) I agree not too much should change. Probably switch standard of might out, replace invasion with chains, dunno.

I look forward to it since i avoid the zergball.

omfgitsbatman

Huntler wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Two-hand stam builds, ow. I may have to move off that line entirely. Impen change makes it pretty damn useless.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Templar nerf yet. On the one hand, looks brutal. On the other, Templars are ridiculously OP at what they do. So I guess we shall see.

I'm fine with the blazing nerf, but what part of templars did you consider OP? Other than blazing shield spam which is justified. Did anyone suddenly start claiming templar healing was OP?

Yes, Templar healing has been called OP for quite some time now... Considering they have access to their own super skill line of healing and almost all of the other decent heals available to other classes, it's hard to argue with. Say all you want bad about Breath of Life being inefficient and such, but seriously try to do what BoL does on another healer. The only thing other classes have that can come close is keeping mutagen up while hitting healing ward (talk about inefficient). I know that things like Healing springs and such are more effective and magika efficient, but try that on a fight where you are spread out or in places like Vet DSA rounds 4, 8, and 10 in particular.

Huntler wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

No incentives to heal as a templar, more incentive to DPS templar unfortunately *** that execute, i want blinding flashes back for pvp.

Yup. Lol a channeled execute. I'd give anything to have blinding back. The one healing templars for the most part got their edge from a combination of breath of life and the mending passive, now the mending passive is a glorified ritual mundus stone. Breath of life is only efficient if you crit, no crit it becomes extremely inefficient. I'm salty right now. Obviously I'll find a way, but man am I salty.

In reality, Templars are considered by many, many people to be the only viable end game healing class. This is not how they intended it. Templars are not supposed to have an edge in healing. They are supposed to be on par with everything else. If Every dps suddenly got told that if they aren't a DK, they can't dps in trials, there would be a flame war the size of the Sun on the forums. This is what is happening with Healers. If you aren't a Templar, there is no spot for you. I am very happy with what they have done as far as buffing every other class healing and more or less leaving templars on par with what they were. It does not seem like they took a very noticable nerf... yeah the crit from mending is gone, but they replaced it with an overall healing buff that seems like it will balance out pretty nicely. Remember that the overall healing buff is more than a "Chance," It's a sure thing. Crit is still a "Chance". As far as Right of Passage goes, I'm not sure how the whole projectile thing will play out. If it is a delay, that is kind of dumb, but I definitely see a buff there and not a nerf as long as it's not delayed a ridiculous amount.

Call me Prejudice because I am a nightblade, and my healing got buffed a ton, but honestly rebalancing needed to happen in the world of healers.

Soulac

Nevermind got ideas for a new op NB build *evil cat laugh *

Tintinabula

Are you guys actually pouring points into the champion system? I'm seeing responses here that aren't addressing the champion system which is a lot to do with stam regen..shields...bashing..interrupts magika regen etc.

Shuichi

My stamina no build is complete garbage now, time to find a good hybrid build

Roechacca

My problem so far is it's really hard to tell how this will effect pvp until we see some further testing . There's still a lot of bugs on the test server update . Does anyone know if you delete a character on the test server if it will be deleted on the live server ?

Grim13

Well NBs, if you were the kind of NB who was fond of stealth... things just got a whole lot worse.

The new support skill that launches a flare and reveals all stealthed enemy for 8 seconds is not only spammable by just about anybody... you also cannot see it.

Sure, there is an audio cue that tells you it's being thrown nearby, and your eye immediately opens up when it goes off, but if there is any incidental background noise... you won't hear it.

And with a range of about 38 metres, you'll most likely spend the bulk of your time near any objective in the visible state.

While it's too early to proclaim stealth completely dead... It's well on it's way, imho.

Tankqull

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Two-hand stam builds, ow. I may have to move off that line entirely. Impen change makes it pretty damn useless.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Templar nerf yet. On the one hand, looks brutal. On the other, Templars are ridiculously OP at what they do. So I guess we shall see.

I'm fine with the blazing nerf, but what part of templars did you consider OP? Other than blazing shield spam which is justified. Did anyone suddenly start claiming templar healing was OP?

Yes, Templar healing has been called OP for quite some time now... Considering they have access to their own super skill line of healing and almost all of the other decent heals available to other classes, it's hard to argue with. Say all you want bad about Breath of Life being inefficient and such, but seriously try to do what BoL does on another healer. The only thing other classes have that can come close is keeping mutagen up while hitting healing ward (talk about inefficient). I know that things like Healing springs and such are more effective and magika efficient, but try that on a fight where you are spread out or in places like Vet DSA rounds 4, 8, and 10 in particular.

Huntler wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

No incentives to heal as a templar, more incentive to DPS templar unfortunately *** that execute, i want blinding flashes back for pvp.

Yup. Lol a channeled execute. I'd give anything to have blinding back. The one healing templars for the most part got their edge from a combination of breath of life and the mending passive, now the mending passive is a glorified ritual mundus stone. Breath of life is only efficient if you crit, no crit it becomes extremely inefficient. I'm salty right now. Obviously I'll find a way, but man am I salty.

In reality, Templars are considered by many, many people to be the only viable end game healing class. This is not how they intended it. Templars are not supposed to have an edge in healing. They are supposed to be on par with everything else. If Every dps suddenly got told that if they aren't a DK, they can't dps in trials, there would be a flame war the size of the Sun on the forums. This is what is happening with Healers. If you aren't a Templar, there is no spot for you. I am very happy with what they have done as far as buffing every other class healing and more or less leaving templars on par with what they were. It does not seem like they took a very noticable nerf... yeah the crit from mending is gone, but they replaced it with an overall healing buff that seems like it will balance out pretty nicely. Remember that the overall healing buff is more than a "Chance," It's a sure thing. Crit is still a "Chance". As far as Right of Passage goes, I'm not sure how the whole projectile thing will play out. If it is a delay, that is kind of dumb, but I definitely see a buff there and not a nerf as long as it's not delayed a ridiculous amount.

Call me Prejudice because I am a nightblade, and my healing got buffed a ton, but honestly rebalancing needed to happen in the world of healers.

sure if in exchange the DPS of sorcs and temps will be increased by 40-60% to match the values of NBs i´m fine but thats not happening.

Kas

i don't understand the templar cries. imho the new thing HA -> tanky, LA->paper is HUGE. classes will have to run HA to be tanky.

Unless... you relie on shields + immovable to stay alive and don't care about mitigation for that. Imho templars may be the only class that is still tanky in LA and, depending on other changes, this may be a great benefit.

Apart form that, there is a clear incentive to nerf zergballs and make spreading out necessary in many cases (and by other means than a broken unstable wall). if people spread out, this makes BoL even more important than it already is

omfgitsbatman

Tankqull wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Two-hand stam builds, ow. I may have to move off that line entirely. Impen change makes it pretty damn useless.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Templar nerf yet. On the one hand, looks brutal. On the other, Templars are ridiculously OP at what they do. So I guess we shall see.

I'm fine with the blazing nerf, but what part of templars did you consider OP? Other than blazing shield spam which is justified. Did anyone suddenly start claiming templar healing was OP?

Yes, Templar healing has been called OP for quite some time now... Considering they have access to their own super skill line of healing and almost all of the other decent heals available to other classes, it's hard to argue with. Say all you want bad about Breath of Life being inefficient and such, but seriously try to do what BoL does on another healer. The only thing other classes have that can come close is keeping mutagen up while hitting healing ward (talk about inefficient). I know that things like Healing springs and such are more effective and magika efficient, but try that on a fight where you are spread out or in places like Vet DSA rounds 4, 8, and 10 in particular.

Huntler wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

No incentives to heal as a templar, more incentive to DPS templar unfortunately *** that execute, i want blinding flashes back for pvp.

Yup. Lol a channeled execute. I'd give anything to have blinding back. The one healing templars for the most part got their edge from a combination of breath of life and the mending passive, now the mending passive is a glorified ritual mundus stone. Breath of life is only efficient if you crit, no crit it becomes extremely inefficient. I'm salty right now. Obviously I'll find a way, but man am I salty.

In reality, Templars are considered by many, many people to be the only viable end game healing class. This is not how they intended it. Templars are not supposed to have an edge in healing. They are supposed to be on par with everything else. If Every dps suddenly got told that if they aren't a DK, they can't dps in trials, there would be a flame war the size of the Sun on the forums. This is what is happening with Healers. If you aren't a Templar, there is no spot for you. I am very happy with what they have done as far as buffing every other class healing and more or less leaving templars on par with what they were. It does not seem like they took a very noticable nerf... yeah the crit from mending is gone, but they replaced it with an overall healing buff that seems like it will balance out pretty nicely. Remember that the overall healing buff is more than a "Chance," It's a sure thing. Crit is still a "Chance". As far as Right of Passage goes, I'm not sure how the whole projectile thing will play out. If it is a delay, that is kind of dumb, but I definitely see a buff there and not a nerf as long as it's not delayed a ridiculous amount.

Call me Prejudice because I am a nightblade, and my healing got buffed a ton, but honestly rebalancing needed to happen in the world of healers.

sure if in exchange the DPS of sorcs and temps will be increased by 40-60% to match the values of NBs i´m fine but thats not happening.

Honestly, I've seen Templars match the DPS of Nightblades. I've seen a stam build Templar pull off 1.4k+ DPS consistently. I've seen sorcs pull off 1.2k+ consistently. NB's that I've seen are in that ballpark too... but Templars and sorcs are both getting some love on the dps side of things in 1.6

I'm not trying to argue here. I'm not saying nerf anyone. I'm saying that there needs to be a balance. I completely agree that templar dps should be competitive with every other class. I think that sorcs should be able to tank as well as DK's. I think that NB's should be able to heal as well as templars. I'd love to be able to go into high end trials with a Sorc tank, NB and DK healers, and Templar DPS and stand a decent shot of completing it... But good luck trying that. They have said "Any class can perform any role." It's time for that statement to be backed up. From my preliminary reading of the patch notes. It seems like they are getting closer to it.

kevlarto_ESO

To early to tell for me I do like what I see so far but that is subject to change with time LOL

Cinnamon_Spider

I had a lot of fun testing out my different sets and skills on my sorc tonight. There are still some balance changes they need to make, but overall I was happy with what they've done so far. (Thanks to the EP guys that let me test on them and duel!)

Before anyone starts to panic, go download it and try it out. You will need to play around with the champion points a bit and you may find yourself using a few different skills than you're used to using, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

And that pvp bomb skill is a blast.

Joy_Division

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

In reality, Templars are considered by many, many people to be the only viable end game healing class. This is not how they intended it. Templars are not supposed to have an edge in healing. They are supposed to be on par with everything else. If Every dps suddenly got told that if they aren't a DK, they can't dps in trials, there would be a flame war the size of the Sun on the forums. This is what is happening with Healers. If you aren't a Templar, there is no spot for you. I am very happy with what they have done as far as buffing every other class healing and more or less leaving templars on par with what they were. It does not seem like they took a very noticable nerf... yeah the crit from mending is gone, but they replaced it with an overall healing buff that seems like it will balance out pretty nicely. Remember that the overall healing buff is more than a "Chance," It's a sure thing. Crit is still a "Chance". As far as Right of Passage goes, I'm not sure how the whole projectile thing will play out. If it is a delay, that is kind of dumb, but I definitely see a buff there and not a nerf as long as it's not delayed a ridiculous amount.

Call me Prejudice because I am a nightblade, and my healing got buffed a ton, but honestly rebalancing needed to happen in the world of healers.

You are prejudiced. If you don't think the mending passive is a noticeable nerf, you are not paying attention. Period.

It's fine to make your NB a viable healer to replace my Templar in a raid...but why do I have an entire line of my class devoted to healing then whereas you do not and why cant they do this by simply making the restoration staff more viable...did you read the NON changes to the resto from the notes?

Roechacca

Change is hard . That's my opinion . It will frustrate a lot of people . I like a lot of the new content in the update . I've been to busy looking for bugs to really test the build side of the update . The bugs are numerous still . Stuck in combat / can't mount . Cloak broken . NPCs acting strange and agroing longer distances then previously . Animation changes or no animation on certain abilities that get bugged ect . Still reserved about this update going live until I see some PTS hot fixes first . If that's even going to happen .

Poxheart

Grim13 wrote: »

Well NBs, if you were the kind of NB who was fond of stealth... things just got a whole lot worse.

On top of this, it is impossible to get anywhere near a keep or outpost while sneaking. You can't even see the NPCs, but the stealth eye opens. At Sejanus the eye was opening just after you left the road by the health buff.

Sallington

Soris_ESO wrote: »

R.I.P Stamina templars. You had one overall perfect build and they took away that from you.
rip aura

I still used it on my Magica Tank Templar Such a good utility skill it was

Soulac

This weapon-swap... wtf? stahp zos

Valnas

This patch won't be balanced till July, but i think I like it...

They just need up mitigation across the board a little bit i think for starters (or nerf pen).

I'm hitting 12k frags and 9k curse crits. ppl are melting way way way too easy to straight dps no cc. If you don't have reduction + regen, your just goign to resource out healing unless you get your opponent on the ground w/ the bubble meta incoming imo.

Fruitdog

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Well NBs, if you were the kind of NB who was fond of stealth... things just got a whole lot worse.

On top of this, it is impossible to get anywhere near a keep or outpost while sneaking. You can't even see the NPCs, but the stealth eye opens. At Sejanus the eye was opening just after you left the road by the health buff.

Also, I don't remember if this was the case before but the invisibility potions don't seem work at all if your in this new NPC LOS range.

david.haypreub18_ESO

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Honestly, I've seen Templars match the DPS of Nightblades. I've seen a stam build Templar pull off 1.4k+ DPS consistently. I've seen sorcs pull off 1.2k+ consistently. NB's that I've seen are in that ballpark too... but Templars and sorcs are both getting some love on the dps side of things in 1.6

I'm not trying to argue here. I'm not saying nerf anyone. I'm saying that there needs to be a balance. I completely agree that templar dps should be competitive with every other class. I think that sorcs should be able to tank as well as DK's. I think that NB's should be able to heal as well as templars. I'd love to be able to go into high end trials with a Sorc tank, NB and DK healers, and Templar DPS and stand a decent shot of completing it... But good luck trying that. They have said "Any class can perform any role." It's time for that statement to be backed up. From my preliminary reading of the patch notes. It seems like they are getting closer to it.

The problem is, 1.6 is also nerfing Restoring Aura from an 80% stamina regen to a 30% stamina regen. That was the reason Templar DPS was competitive. Hence, the complaints.

Sypher

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Honestly, I've seen Templars match the DPS of Nightblades. I've seen a stam build Templar pull off 1.4k+ DPS consistently. I've seen sorcs pull off 1.2k+ consistently. NB's that I've seen are in that ballpark too... but Templars and sorcs are both getting some love on the dps side of things in 1.6

I'm not trying to argue here. I'm not saying nerf anyone. I'm saying that there needs to be a balance. I completely agree that templar dps should be competitive with every other class. I think that sorcs should be able to tank as well as DK's. I think that NB's should be able to heal as well as templars. I'd love to be able to go into high end trials with a Sorc tank, NB and DK healers, and Templar DPS and stand a decent shot of completing it... But good luck trying that. They have said "Any class can perform any role." It's time for that statement to be backed up. From my preliminary reading of the patch notes. It seems like they are getting closer to it.

The problem is, 1.6 is also nerfing Restoring Aura from an 80% stamina regen to a 30% stamina regen. That was the reason Templar DPS was competitive. Hence, the complaints.

It's not as huge of a nerf as people make it out to be. Let's say you have 100 Stam regen and get the 80% buff. (For the sake of math, let's say 100 Stam regen is the soft cap) you'll have 140 Stam regen.

With the 30% buff and no softcaps you'll sit at 130. The Numbers will vary. But it's not as huge of a nerf as people make it out to be.

Bouvin

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

R.I.P Stamina templars. You had one overall perfect build and they took away that from you.
rip aura

It is a massive nerf to stamina Templars. For those who didn't notice it, Restoring Aura is going from 80% stamina regen to 30%... which basically pulls the rug out from the stamina Templar.

Nightblade lost thier 40% stam regen. New skill with morph is 10%.

So in the same boat...

Soulac

Funnel Health cost 407 with 3 Reduction Glyphs and Full Light Armor compared to ~180 Cost on Live.. seems legit.

Sypher

But did anyone see the cost of the Cleanse morph of purge?!


Self/Group Heal for ALL?! definitely take a look at that. Lol

Valnas

cleanse op.

also, glyphs on test are (seemingly intentionally) like a 1% adjustment rather than 5-8% for your stats. A set bonus will outweigh 3 enchants currently. So try getting reduction champ points in lieu oif the enchants if you want similar castability.

my funnel cost on my nb was 890 magicka as currently spec'd w/ about 3650 tooltip dmg . I feel like the dmg is almost there and cost are a tad low, but maybe i need mroe sp dmg (1470 w/o the sap buff).

on my sorc crush shock is hitting for like 3400 tip, but in testing doing 7-9k in practice w/ all the buffs and crits so maybe hemorage brings it in line.

Xsorus

Funnel Health is 890? Mean while stamina abilities are in the 2k range..nice...

Jahosefat

Sypher wrote: »

But did anyone see the cost of the Cleanse morph of purge?!


Self/Group Heal for ALL?! definitely take a look at that. Lol

lol yeah it got a huge buff; the mag cost on my sorc is ~1800