Champion System Clarification

Grao

Islyn wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Can anyone please explain what is to be done about the above?

Thank you.

Hey @Islyn, good to see you here. (Graug Here )

@GunemCleric, this is probably the last time I answer to one of your posts as I don't understand what you are still doing here, unless you are one of ZoS trying to argue with us without revealing your self.

The Champion Point is a progression and as such it is based on Accumulate Experience. It follows one very simple rule " X Experience = +1 Champion Point". The 30 CPs ZoS is "giving" us for "free" is an exception to that rule and it is an exception that makes no sense, yet CPs are equivalent to Experience, to "levels" on the Champion System. So yes, Vr1s will get double CPs for their Experience for several levels.

They have no right to those free CPs at all as they have no gathered exp past level 50 (into the veteran ranks) and as they play they will gain exp and extra CPs for that, they will be gaining progression twice. It is very simple unless if you are ZoS. They are clearly unable to understand that.

Islyn

Hey @Islyn, good to see you here. (Graug Here )

Hey hunny, you too!

Also sorry that quote of yours is attributed to the wrong person :-P I can't seem to fix it!

GunemCleric

Grao wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Can anyone please explain what is to be done about the above?

Thank you.

Hey @Islyn, good to see you here. (Graug Here )

@GunemCleric, this is probably the last time I answer to one of your posts as I don't understand what you are still doing here, unless you are one of ZoS trying to argue with us without revealing your self.

The Champion Point is a progression and as such it is based on Accumulate Experience. It follows one very simple rule " X Experience = +1 Champion Point". The 30 CPs ZoS is "giving" us for "free" is an exception to that rule and it is an exception that makes no sense, yet CPs are equivalent to Experience, to "levels" on the Champion System. So yes, Vr1s will get double CPs for their Experience for several levels.

They have no right to those free CPs at all as they have no gathered exp past level 50 (into the veteran ranks) and as they play they will gain exp and extra CPs for that, they will be gaining progression twice. It is very simple unless if you are ZoS. They are clearly unable to understand that.

Its funny, we were having a spirited discussion and suddenly you seek to discredit me rather than counter. You throw out a mostly unrelated statement and an obvious issue that has already been discussed and acknowledge. I have already agreed about the 30 CP in the short term being *extra* but once again you argue half the problem and disregard the other half.

Please do not insult me, it is now far more likely that you and the other guy work for ZOS. Going back and reading some of your posts recently and you certainly seem like either an employee or fanboi, while my posts actually tell the true and explain in detail issues.

You keep leaving your misinformation, argue half the problem and disregard the other half, while your ZOS coworker makes the other half seem like overkill and downplays the first half.

I really do not care anymore, my guild is positioning to be on equal ground when CP comes out so we can remain competitive, by having at least one v1 ready to quest when 1.6 system comes out (since it will be extremely inefficient to gain CP with our v14s since we have no quests and also due to the lvl 50 cap on quest XP and broken XP in Cyrodiil) if no one else takes at least that advice then good luck

Enodoc

GunemCleric wrote: »

[...] the lvl 50 cap on quest XP [...]

I'm pretty sure that was fixed. The most XP you can get, from a "very hard" Level 50 quest (4990 with multiplier at 2.25), is 11227 XP. If the Lvl 50 cap was still in place, this would result in 10000 XP.

Grao

GunemCleric wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Can anyone please explain what is to be done about the above?

Thank you.

Hey @Islyn, good to see you here. (Graug Here )

@GunemCleric, this is probably the last time I answer to one of your posts as I don't understand what you are still doing here, unless you are one of ZoS trying to argue with us without revealing your self.

The Champion Point is a progression and as such it is based on Accumulate Experience. It follows one very simple rule " X Experience = +1 Champion Point". The 30 CPs ZoS is "giving" us for "free" is an exception to that rule and it is an exception that makes no sense, yet CPs are equivalent to Experience, to "levels" on the Champion System. So yes, Vr1s will get double CPs for their Experience for several levels.

They have no right to those free CPs at all as they have no gathered exp past level 50 (into the veteran ranks) and as they play they will gain exp and extra CPs for that, they will be gaining progression twice. It is very simple unless if you are ZoS. They are clearly unable to understand that.

Its funny, we were having a spirited discussion and suddenly you seek to discredit me rather than counter. You throw out a mostly unrelated statement and an obvious issue that has already been discussed and acknowledge. I have already agreed about the 30 CP in the short term being *extra* but once again you argue half the problem and disregard the other half.

Please do not insult me, it is now far more likely that you and the other guy work for ZOS. Going back and reading some of your posts recently and you certainly seem like either an employee or fanboi, while my posts actually tell the true and explain in detail issues.

You keep leaving your misinformation, argue half the problem and disregard the other half, while your ZOS coworker makes the other half seem like overkill and downplays the first half.

I really do not care anymore, my guild is positioning to be on equal ground when CP comes out so we can remain competitive, by having at least one v1 ready to quest when 1.6 system comes out (since it will be extremely inefficient to gain CP with our v14s since we have no quests and also due to the lvl 50 cap on quest XP and broken XP in Cyrodiil) if no one else takes at least that advice then good luck

Damn, someone sure got defensive all of the sudden.
Just makes it seems my statement (that was just a little snipe at your presence in this forum when all you do is say we should just accept all that ZoS does) seem more likely. I didn't really thought you were a ZoS in disguise, but now, after you reaction... Well, raised eyebrows at you.

GunemCleric

Grao wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Can anyone please explain what is to be done about the above?

Thank you.

Hey @Islyn, good to see you here. (Graug Here )

@GunemCleric, this is probably the last time I answer to one of your posts as I don't understand what you are still doing here, unless you are one of ZoS trying to argue with us without revealing your self.

The Champion Point is a progression and as such it is based on Accumulate Experience. It follows one very simple rule " X Experience = +1 Champion Point". The 30 CPs ZoS is "giving" us for "free" is an exception to that rule and it is an exception that makes no sense, yet CPs are equivalent to Experience, to "levels" on the Champion System. So yes, Vr1s will get double CPs for their Experience for several levels.

They have no right to those free CPs at all as they have no gathered exp past level 50 (into the veteran ranks) and as they play they will gain exp and extra CPs for that, they will be gaining progression twice. It is very simple unless if you are ZoS. They are clearly unable to understand that.

Its funny, we were having a spirited discussion and suddenly you seek to discredit me rather than counter. You throw out a mostly unrelated statement and an obvious issue that has already been discussed and acknowledge. I have already agreed about the 30 CP in the short term being *extra* but once again you argue half the problem and disregard the other half.

Please do not insult me, it is now far more likely that you and the other guy work for ZOS. Going back and reading some of your posts recently and you certainly seem like either an employee or fanboi, while my posts actually tell the true and explain in detail issues.

You keep leaving your misinformation, argue half the problem and disregard the other half, while your ZOS coworker makes the other half seem like overkill and downplays the first half.

I really do not care anymore, my guild is positioning to be on equal ground when CP comes out so we can remain competitive, by having at least one v1 ready to quest when 1.6 system comes out (since it will be extremely inefficient to gain CP with our v14s since we have no quests and also due to the lvl 50 cap on quest XP and broken XP in Cyrodiil) if no one else takes at least that advice then good luck

Damn, someone sure got defensive all of the sudden.
Just makes it seems my statement (that was just a little snipe at your presence in this forum when all you do is say we should just accept all that ZoS does) seem more likely. I didn't really thought you were a ZoS in disguise, but now, after you reaction... Well, raised eyebrows at you.

I call troll. If you believe that after all the things I said about how ZoS is screwing up then you are clearly a troll. Nothing I have said is in support of ZOS which is why your statements are so ludicrous.

While you on the other spin the CP change to sound like ZOS is doing us all a favor by giving us points we do not deserve, doing us a favor, awarding us twice for only doing it once, so nice of ZOS to give us 30 all CP including v1s who have been here min of 20 hours (while eventually removing ALL the work we the v14s did when 1.7/phase 4 comes out)

That is what you are saying, that is what you support. And you are trying to say I am supporting ZOS. Stop insulting me and everyone's intelligence.

Grao

GunemCleric wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Can anyone please explain what is to be done about the above?

Thank you.

Hey @Islyn, good to see you here. (Graug Here )

@GunemCleric, this is probably the last time I answer to one of your posts as I don't understand what you are still doing here, unless you are one of ZoS trying to argue with us without revealing your self.

The Champion Point is a progression and as such it is based on Accumulate Experience. It follows one very simple rule " X Experience = +1 Champion Point". The 30 CPs ZoS is "giving" us for "free" is an exception to that rule and it is an exception that makes no sense, yet CPs are equivalent to Experience, to "levels" on the Champion System. So yes, Vr1s will get double CPs for their Experience for several levels.

They have no right to those free CPs at all as they have no gathered exp past level 50 (into the veteran ranks) and as they play they will gain exp and extra CPs for that, they will be gaining progression twice. It is very simple unless if you are ZoS. They are clearly unable to understand that.

Its funny, we were having a spirited discussion and suddenly you seek to discredit me rather than counter. You throw out a mostly unrelated statement and an obvious issue that has already been discussed and acknowledge. I have already agreed about the 30 CP in the short term being *extra* but once again you argue half the problem and disregard the other half.

Please do not insult me, it is now far more likely that you and the other guy work for ZOS. Going back and reading some of your posts recently and you certainly seem like either an employee or fanboi, while my posts actually tell the true and explain in detail issues.

You keep leaving your misinformation, argue half the problem and disregard the other half, while your ZOS coworker makes the other half seem like overkill and downplays the first half.

I really do not care anymore, my guild is positioning to be on equal ground when CP comes out so we can remain competitive, by having at least one v1 ready to quest when 1.6 system comes out (since it will be extremely inefficient to gain CP with our v14s since we have no quests and also due to the lvl 50 cap on quest XP and broken XP in Cyrodiil) if no one else takes at least that advice then good luck

Damn, someone sure got defensive all of the sudden.
Just makes it seems my statement (that was just a little snipe at your presence in this forum when all you do is say we should just accept all that ZoS does) seem more likely. I didn't really thought you were a ZoS in disguise, but now, after you reaction... Well, raised eyebrows at you.

I call troll. If you believe that after all the things I said about how ZoS is screwing up then you are clearly a troll. Nothing I have said is in support of ZOS which is why your statements are so ludicrous.

While you on the other spin the CP change to sound like ZOS is doing us all a favor by giving us points we do not deserve, doing us a favor, awarding us twice for only doing it once, so nice of ZOS to give us 30 all CP including v1s who have been here min of 20 hours (while eventually removing ALL the work we the v14s did when 1.7/phase 4 comes out)

That is what you are saying, that is what you support. And you are trying to say I am supporting ZOS. Stop insulting me and everyone's intelligence.

EDIT: oooh, ooops I confused you with that guy => @Guppet.

Sorry @GunemCleric, just too much time on this forum >.> Sleep deprivation is baaad ^^;

GunemCleric

Grao wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Can anyone please explain what is to be done about the above?

Thank you.

Hey @Islyn, good to see you here. (Graug Here )

@GunemCleric, this is probably the last time I answer to one of your posts as I don't understand what you are still doing here, unless you are one of ZoS trying to argue with us without revealing your self.

The Champion Point is a progression and as such it is based on Accumulate Experience. It follows one very simple rule " X Experience = +1 Champion Point". The 30 CPs ZoS is "giving" us for "free" is an exception to that rule and it is an exception that makes no sense, yet CPs are equivalent to Experience, to "levels" on the Champion System. So yes, Vr1s will get double CPs for their Experience for several levels.

They have no right to those free CPs at all as they have no gathered exp past level 50 (into the veteran ranks) and as they play they will gain exp and extra CPs for that, they will be gaining progression twice. It is very simple unless if you are ZoS. They are clearly unable to understand that.

Its funny, we were having a spirited discussion and suddenly you seek to discredit me rather than counter. You throw out a mostly unrelated statement and an obvious issue that has already been discussed and acknowledge. I have already agreed about the 30 CP in the short term being *extra* but once again you argue half the problem and disregard the other half.

Please do not insult me, it is now far more likely that you and the other guy work for ZOS. Going back and reading some of your posts recently and you certainly seem like either an employee or fanboi, while my posts actually tell the true and explain in detail issues.

You keep leaving your misinformation, argue half the problem and disregard the other half, while your ZOS coworker makes the other half seem like overkill and downplays the first half.

I really do not care anymore, my guild is positioning to be on equal ground when CP comes out so we can remain competitive, by having at least one v1 ready to quest when 1.6 system comes out (since it will be extremely inefficient to gain CP with our v14s since we have no quests and also due to the lvl 50 cap on quest XP and broken XP in Cyrodiil) if no one else takes at least that advice then good luck

Damn, someone sure got defensive all of the sudden.
Just makes it seems my statement (that was just a little snipe at your presence in this forum when all you do is say we should just accept all that ZoS does) seem more likely. I didn't really thought you were a ZoS in disguise, but now, after you reaction... Well, raised eyebrows at you.

I call troll. If you believe that after all the things I said about how ZoS is screwing up then you are clearly a troll. Nothing I have said is in support of ZOS which is why your statements are so ludicrous.

While you on the other spin the CP change to sound like ZOS is doing us all a favor by giving us points we do not deserve, doing us a favor, awarding us twice for only doing it once, so nice of ZOS to give us 30 all CP including v1s who have been here min of 20 hours (while eventually removing ALL the work we the v14s did when 1.7/phase 4 comes out)

That is what you are saying, that is what you support. And you are trying to say I am supporting ZOS. Stop insulting me and everyone's intelligence.

EDIT: oooh, ooops I confused you with that guy => @Guppet.

Sorry @GunemCleric, just too much time on this forum >.> Sleep deprivation is baaad ^^;

Hey, No problem. You had me extremely confused.

Grao

Grao wrote: »

And yet another day goes by without an answer from Zenimax in any of the four active posts concerning this problem. @ZOS_GinaBruno, the longer this answer is stalled the greater will be the community resentment towards ZoS. Right now it seems like the company is hiding behind a paper thin shield of silence because all our concerns are true and you were or still intend to retire the veteran system without compensating your players for the loss of those levels and the experience they represent.

Your silence is the worse answer you can give us for we will then assume the worst. We assume ESO is going free to play because you won't dispel that idea with a simple statement. We assume you are willing to completely ignore months of your most loyal player's time in the game because in your silence, you are confirming our fears.

The release of 1.6 and even the champion system is filled with obvious flaws. In name of balance ZoS says they will give 30 champion points to all accounts containing at least one veteran character. How great of ZoS to consider their new players and the disadvantage they will be facing once they reach vr1 and don't get those extra points!

As for ZoS fear of players accumulating too many points early, well... ZoS created that problem upon making Champion Points be account bound, not character bound. They made the problem worse by allowing players to configure how they spend CPs on each character instead of making the CP distribution Account wide (which would have forced those players with multiple accounts to distribute their points around the styles of each character).

It is also ZoS mistake that lead to the disparity between levels they are using to justify not giving the veteran ranks the promised CPs related to their accumulated Experience. After all, it is ZoS decision to partially release the champion system while keeping the Veteran Ranks still up. Because they weren't able to complete the tests on their system and the changes needed to all the questing in the veteran areas and gear, we are being penalized.

It is getting tiresome at least to me to come and write down concerns to get no answer... Ever... For over a week. I am at loss on what to do as I would prefer not to drop my subscription again, I like this game. I just start to truly despise the company that created the game.

DanielMaxwell

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

I have a question from the other side of the spectrum. Don't know if it was already asked as there are many pages to this thread. When 1.6 actually goes live and everyone gets their 30 CP for having at least one V1+ character on their account, what will happen to new players or players that haven't quite made it to V1+ yet? When they finally reach V1+ will they be automatically awarded 30 CP? Or is this a one time deal upon release of 1.6?

Thanks in advance for any information.

it is a one time award , no one who does not have a VR1 and up character on their account(each account for those with multiple accounts) will receive any CP.

when 1.6 goes live if your account has at least 1 VR1 or higher you receive 30 CP's

when 1.6 goes live if your account has zero VR characters you receive zero CP's .

ZOS is rewarding players twice for running content once , in regards to the non-repeatable content , and progressing players in a system that is not even in the game yet , in regards to those who focused on the repeatable content .
Should prove very interesting if they ever release an expansion pack for this game as they will have introduced a precedent for rewarding players twice .

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

you receive rewards for progressing through the veteran rank system , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing the veteran rank system .

What should concern you is the how of them removing the veteran rank system. If they remove it by nerfing all VR characters down to level fifty then you and everyone else who has a VR character have a reason to get pissed since that is removing your rewards from the veteran rank system . If they instead buff all level fifty characters (add 13 attribute and skill points) up to being on a par with a VR14 , not including the gear gained from content done (dungeons , trials drops and quest rewards) , and skill points gained from quests and sky shards , then you , and other players with VR 14 characters , may still get pissed but your not going to receive much sympathy or support from most of the other players. simply because you would then just look like greedy self entitled elitists .

Grao

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

I have a question from the other side of the spectrum. Don't know if it was already asked as there are many pages to this thread. When 1.6 actually goes live and everyone gets their 30 CP for having at least one V1+ character on their account, what will happen to new players or players that haven't quite made it to V1+ yet? When they finally reach V1+ will they be automatically awarded 30 CP? Or is this a one time deal upon release of 1.6?

Thanks in advance for any information.

it is a one time award , no one who does not have a VR1 and up character on their account(each account for those with multiple accounts) will receive any CP.

when 1.6 goes live if your account has at least 1 VR1 or higher you receive 30 CP's

when 1.6 goes live if your account has zero VR characters you receive zero CP's .

ZOS is rewarding players twice for running content once , in regards to the non-repeatable content , and progressing players in a system that is not even in the game yet , in regards to those who focused on the repeatable content .
Should prove very interesting if they ever release an expansion pack for this game as they will have introduced a precedent for rewarding players twice .

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

you receive rewards for progressing through the veteran rank system , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing the veteran rank system .

What should concern you is the how of them removing the veteran rank system. If they remove it by nerfing all VR characters down to level fifty then you and everyone else who has a VR character have a reason to get pissed since that is removing your rewards from the veteran rank system . If they instead buff all level fifty characters (add 13 attribute and skill points) up to being on a par with a VR14 , not including the gear gained from content done (dungeons , trials drops and quest rewards) , and skill points gained from quests and sky shards , then you , and other players with VR 14 characters , may still get pissed but your not going to receive much sympathy or support from most of the other players. simply because you would then just look like greedy self entitled elitists .

Nope, we would look like players demanding the power difference we earned through quite a lot of time in the game.

DanielMaxwell

Grao wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

I have a question from the other side of the spectrum. Don't know if it was already asked as there are many pages to this thread. When 1.6 actually goes live and everyone gets their 30 CP for having at least one V1+ character on their account, what will happen to new players or players that haven't quite made it to V1+ yet? When they finally reach V1+ will they be automatically awarded 30 CP? Or is this a one time deal upon release of 1.6?

Thanks in advance for any information.

it is a one time award , no one who does not have a VR1 and up character on their account(each account for those with multiple accounts) will receive any CP.

when 1.6 goes live if your account has at least 1 VR1 or higher you receive 30 CP's

when 1.6 goes live if your account has zero VR characters you receive zero CP's .

ZOS is rewarding players twice for running content once , in regards to the non-repeatable content , and progressing players in a system that is not even in the game yet , in regards to those who focused on the repeatable content .
Should prove very interesting if they ever release an expansion pack for this game as they will have introduced a precedent for rewarding players twice .

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

you receive rewards for progressing through the veteran rank system , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing the veteran rank system .

What should concern you is the how of them removing the veteran rank system. If they remove it by nerfing all VR characters down to level fifty then you and everyone else who has a VR character have a reason to get pissed since that is removing your rewards from the veteran rank system . If they instead buff all level fifty characters (add 13 attribute and skill points) up to being on a par with a VR14 , not including the gear gained from content done (dungeons , trials drops and quest rewards) , and skill points gained from quests and sky shards , then you , and other players with VR 14 characters , may still get pissed but your not going to receive much sympathy or support from most of the other players. simply because you would then just look like greedy self entitled elitists .

Nope, we would look like players demanding the power difference we earned through quite a lot of time in the game.

Some players will agree with you , but I think most would not . That is why I said you would not get much sympathy or support from most other players .

I personally think that ZOS is going about the removal of the VR system the wrong way since VR levels are so similar to character levels . I would rather see them raise the level cap and convert the VR levels over to character levels , that way nobody loses their characters power , content does not have to be rebalanced , and everyone can start the champion system on the same foot since only the new level cap content would provide progress in the champion system.

Grao

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

I have a question from the other side of the spectrum. Don't know if it was already asked as there are many pages to this thread. When 1.6 actually goes live and everyone gets their 30 CP for having at least one V1+ character on their account, what will happen to new players or players that haven't quite made it to V1+ yet? When they finally reach V1+ will they be automatically awarded 30 CP? Or is this a one time deal upon release of 1.6?

Thanks in advance for any information.

it is a one time award , no one who does not have a VR1 and up character on their account(each account for those with multiple accounts) will receive any CP.

when 1.6 goes live if your account has at least 1 VR1 or higher you receive 30 CP's

when 1.6 goes live if your account has zero VR characters you receive zero CP's .

ZOS is rewarding players twice for running content once , in regards to the non-repeatable content , and progressing players in a system that is not even in the game yet , in regards to those who focused on the repeatable content .
Should prove very interesting if they ever release an expansion pack for this game as they will have introduced a precedent for rewarding players twice .

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

you receive rewards for progressing through the veteran rank system , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing the veteran rank system .

What should concern you is the how of them removing the veteran rank system. If they remove it by nerfing all VR characters down to level fifty then you and everyone else who has a VR character have a reason to get pissed since that is removing your rewards from the veteran rank system . If they instead buff all level fifty characters (add 13 attribute and skill points) up to being on a par with a VR14 , not including the gear gained from content done (dungeons , trials drops and quest rewards) , and skill points gained from quests and sky shards , then you , and other players with VR 14 characters , may still get pissed but your not going to receive much sympathy or support from most of the other players. simply because you would then just look like greedy self entitled elitists .

Nope, we would look like players demanding the power difference we earned through quite a lot of time in the game.

Some players will agree with you , but I think most would not . That is why I said you would not get much sympathy or support from most other players .

I personally think that ZOS is going about the removal of the VR system the wrong way since VR levels are so similar to character levels . I would rather see them raise the level cap and convert the VR levels over to character levels , that way nobody loses their characters power , content does not have to be rebalanced , and everyone can start the champion system on the same foot since only the new level cap content would provide progress in the champion system.

I'd be fine with getting no CPs if ZoS wasn't retiring the Veteran System by removing those 14 levels, but that is not the case.

Zenimax is removing the Veteran Levels, removing all gear requirements, removing those 14 Attribute Points and balancing the remaining Attribute Points to diminish the impact of all that loss. And then they are adding the Champion System.

Now, the Champion System is the new progression, so, since the old progression is being removed, ZoS should translate the progression in the old system to the new one. I don't quite understand what is the problem with doing that. A previously Vr14 would only get 50 CPs over a previously Vr1. Considering there are 3600 CPs to be gathered, I can't see how that small amount can be game breaking! And if it is game breaking then there is something profoundly wrong with the system and ZoS should be fixing that instead of demoting their constant players.

DanielMaxwell

Grao wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

I have a question from the other side of the spectrum. Don't know if it was already asked as there are many pages to this thread. When 1.6 actually goes live and everyone gets their 30 CP for having at least one V1+ character on their account, what will happen to new players or players that haven't quite made it to V1+ yet? When they finally reach V1+ will they be automatically awarded 30 CP? Or is this a one time deal upon release of 1.6?

Thanks in advance for any information.

it is a one time award , no one who does not have a VR1 and up character on their account(each account for those with multiple accounts) will receive any CP.

when 1.6 goes live if your account has at least 1 VR1 or higher you receive 30 CP's

when 1.6 goes live if your account has zero VR characters you receive zero CP's .

ZOS is rewarding players twice for running content once , in regards to the non-repeatable content , and progressing players in a system that is not even in the game yet , in regards to those who focused on the repeatable content .
Should prove very interesting if they ever release an expansion pack for this game as they will have introduced a precedent for rewarding players twice .

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

you receive rewards for progressing through the veteran rank system , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing the veteran rank system .

What should concern you is the how of them removing the veteran rank system. If they remove it by nerfing all VR characters down to level fifty then you and everyone else who has a VR character have a reason to get pissed since that is removing your rewards from the veteran rank system . If they instead buff all level fifty characters (add 13 attribute and skill points) up to being on a par with a VR14 , not including the gear gained from content done (dungeons , trials drops and quest rewards) , and skill points gained from quests and sky shards , then you , and other players with VR 14 characters , may still get pissed but your not going to receive much sympathy or support from most of the other players. simply because you would then just look like greedy self entitled elitists .

Nope, we would look like players demanding the power difference we earned through quite a lot of time in the game.

Some players will agree with you , but I think most would not . That is why I said you would not get much sympathy or support from most other players .

I personally think that ZOS is going about the removal of the VR system the wrong way since VR levels are so similar to character levels . I would rather see them raise the level cap and convert the VR levels over to character levels , that way nobody loses their characters power , content does not have to be rebalanced , and everyone can start the champion system on the same foot since only the new level cap content would provide progress in the champion system.

I'd be fine with getting no CPs if ZoS wasn't retiring the Veteran System by removing those 14 levels, but that is not the case.

Zenimax is removing the Veteran Levels, removing all gear requirements, removing those 14 Attribute Points and balancing the remaining Attribute Points to diminish the impact of all that loss. And then they are adding the Champion System.

Now, the Champion System is the new progression, so, since the old progression is being removed, ZoS should translate the progression in the old system to the new one. I don't quite understand what is the problem with doing that. A previously Vr14 would only get 50 CPs over a previously Vr1. Considering there are 3600 CPs to be gathered, I can't see how that small amount can be game breaking! And if it is game breaking then there is something profoundly wrong with the system and ZoS should be fixing that instead of demoting their constant players.

it is only 13 levels , when your character turns fifty they pass gas and become VR1 .

please provide a link to where ZOS said they are going to remove the attribute points , I have not seen them say anything about removing the attribute points , the most they have said (as far as I know) is that when the veteran ranks are removed they plan to keep the power difference around but at a smaller scale . How they plan to do that I have now idea , but more info would be useful.

Rewarding players twice for running content once is just a bad precedent to introduce into the game , since once it is done then some players will expect it to be done with every new system or expansion pack witch would remove the illusion of casual players being able to catch up to hardcore players (casual and hardcore based more on time spent progressing characters) and without that illusion the larger group of casual players will start leaving the game .

Nazon_Katts

More like 130 levels... 1rank=10levels

Regarding attributes and skill points, ZOS planned to bestow them on everyone in VR/50+. Maybe that went away and was replaced with 30CP. Just speculating tho. But awarding both would make even less sense. But, well, ZOS, y'know.

Guppet

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

I have a question from the other side of the spectrum. Don't know if it was already asked as there are many pages to this thread. When 1.6 actually goes live and everyone gets their 30 CP for having at least one V1+ character on their account, what will happen to new players or players that haven't quite made it to V1+ yet? When they finally reach V1+ will they be automatically awarded 30 CP? Or is this a one time deal upon release of 1.6?

Thanks in advance for any information.

it is a one time award , no one who does not have a VR1 and up character on their account(each account for those with multiple accounts) will receive any CP.

when 1.6 goes live if your account has at least 1 VR1 or higher you receive 30 CP's

when 1.6 goes live if your account has zero VR characters you receive zero CP's .

ZOS is rewarding players twice for running content once , in regards to the non-repeatable content , and progressing players in a system that is not even in the game yet , in regards to those who focused on the repeatable content .
Should prove very interesting if they ever release an expansion pack for this game as they will have introduced a precedent for rewarding players twice .

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

you receive rewards for progressing through the veteran rank system , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing the veteran rank system .

What should concern you is the how of them removing the veteran rank system. If they remove it by nerfing all VR characters down to level fifty then you and everyone else who has a VR character have a reason to get pissed since that is removing your rewards from the veteran rank system . If they instead buff all level fifty characters (add 13 attribute and skill points) up to being on a par with a VR14 , not including the gear gained from content done (dungeons , trials drops and quest rewards) , and skill points gained from quests and sky shards , then you , and other players with VR 14 characters , may still get pissed but your not going to receive much sympathy or support from most of the other players. simply because you would then just look like greedy self entitled elitists .

Nope, we would look like players demanding the power difference we earned through quite a lot of time in the game.

Some players will agree with you , but I think most would not . That is why I said you would not get much sympathy or support from most other players .

I personally think that ZOS is going about the removal of the VR system the wrong way since VR levels are so similar to character levels . I would rather see them raise the level cap and convert the VR levels over to character levels , that way nobody loses their characters power , content does not have to be rebalanced , and everyone can start the champion system on the same foot since only the new level cap content would provide progress in the champion system.

Raising the level cap would be pointless. The whole reason they are removing VR is not enough people were sticking with the game till level cap. Removing VR levels removes two thirds of that grind. You then join end game as soon as you beat Molag Bal. Not have to play through twice more.

Increasing the level cap would stop all that happening and would not bring back any players that left due to the VR grind.

The revamp is not for existing players, that's why we often seem like a side thought. It's to bring back all those players that quit during the VR grind.

ZombieBlitz

Im starting to see developers not knowing what to do with their game. Even to the point of affecting all the time people have put into their toons. Like last night, I saw vet-15 gold food. I mean, I have head that you were going to make everyone a level 50, that in my eyes is just plain stupid. I may of only managed 1 toon to a vr-4, but I have not played the other camps, and refuse to. This is so I don't lose all I have in the game. If anything, you should raise the level cap to 200, and allow the monsters to level with the player. I will wait to see what update 6 brings, before I decide what to do with my sub. Like what you did with the traits, I myself found that a little lame, remove one and add one. Should of left them all there and added another one. Like others have said, gonna be a lot of angry people. Why you you build one system on top of another if you planned on doing away with the system you built it on? WOW! Nice world though, could use some beefier servers though.

DanielMaxwell

Guppet wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

I have a question from the other side of the spectrum. Don't know if it was already asked as there are many pages to this thread. When 1.6 actually goes live and everyone gets their 30 CP for having at least one V1+ character on their account, what will happen to new players or players that haven't quite made it to V1+ yet? When they finally reach V1+ will they be automatically awarded 30 CP? Or is this a one time deal upon release of 1.6?

Thanks in advance for any information.

it is a one time award , no one who does not have a VR1 and up character on their account(each account for those with multiple accounts) will receive any CP.

when 1.6 goes live if your account has at least 1 VR1 or higher you receive 30 CP's

when 1.6 goes live if your account has zero VR characters you receive zero CP's .

ZOS is rewarding players twice for running content once , in regards to the non-repeatable content , and progressing players in a system that is not even in the game yet , in regards to those who focused on the repeatable content .
Should prove very interesting if they ever release an expansion pack for this game as they will have introduced a precedent for rewarding players twice .

What part of Removing veteran ranks in phase 4 do you still not get? When 1.7 comes out veteran ranks are gone. How is this "rewarding players twice for running content once"? How are not able to understand that? Seriously, dozens of people have explained this in excruciating detail and yet you continue to belabor this ridiculous non-point.

They are "giving" us 30 under the guise of converting vet ranks to CP. They are *not* even rewarding us once for our play time much less twice.
A fresh v1 gets 30 CP exactly like my 2 v14.
A v1 with ZERO quests get 30 CP, my v14 with 1100 quests gets 30 CP.
A v1 with 20 hours of playtime gets 30 CP, my 2 v14s with 2400 hours between them get 30 CP.

What is the difference? The v1 still has 600 quests for that character, one of my v14s has maybe 6 quests. BUT in phase 4 that v1 and my v14 will be level 50 and both will have only 30 CP plus whatever I earned in the meantime, which would be mostly on a different character, while the v1 can level the char he/she is playing on and still has 7 more possible toons to get CP, while i will need to delete 2 of my future v14 to continue to gain CP efficiently.

If that does not make sense then there is no hope for you.

you receive rewards for progressing through the veteran rank system , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing the veteran rank system .

What should concern you is the how of them removing the veteran rank system. If they remove it by nerfing all VR characters down to level fifty then you and everyone else who has a VR character have a reason to get pissed since that is removing your rewards from the veteran rank system . If they instead buff all level fifty characters (add 13 attribute and skill points) up to being on a par with a VR14 , not including the gear gained from content done (dungeons , trials drops and quest rewards) , and skill points gained from quests and sky shards , then you , and other players with VR 14 characters , may still get pissed but your not going to receive much sympathy or support from most of the other players. simply because you would then just look like greedy self entitled elitists .

Nope, we would look like players demanding the power difference we earned through quite a lot of time in the game.

Some players will agree with you , but I think most would not . That is why I said you would not get much sympathy or support from most other players .

I personally think that ZOS is going about the removal of the VR system the wrong way since VR levels are so similar to character levels . I would rather see them raise the level cap and convert the VR levels over to character levels , that way nobody loses their characters power , content does not have to be rebalanced , and everyone can start the champion system on the same foot since only the new level cap content would provide progress in the champion system.

Raising the level cap would be pointless. The whole reason they are removing VR is not enough people were sticking with the game till level cap. Removing VR levels removes two thirds of that grind. You then join end game as soon as you beat Molag Bal. Not have to play through twice more.

Increasing the level cap would stop all that happening and would not bring back any players that left due to the VR grind.

The revamp is not for existing players, that's why we often seem like a side thought. It's to bring back all those players that quit during the VR grind.

but they are not removing the existing VR grind , they are just replacing it with the champion system grind . In addition when they nerfed the old VR zones so that players could do them Solo it did not bring back most of those who left because of the perceived forced grouping at that time .The same applies to when they changed VR levels to require XP instead of Veteran Points to advances your veteran Rank , as that also did not bring most of the players back who left due to the VR grind , What might bring some of the players who left back is the new justice system .

No new level fifty will be jumping into DSA or CoA since they will not be geared for it , they will have to get gear from lower dungeons , buy appropriate level crafted gear , or gather the mats to craft their own all of witch will take time to obtain . They we also still have to run the other factions zones to obtain the sky shards there and the skill points from the silver and gold quest chains which are not being removed .

Bring players back who left is harder to do then trying to entice new players while retaining existing players , the change to the champion system ,and adding the first stage of the Justice system , is an attempt to retain most of the existing player base while attracting new players . If players who left return that is a bonus , but not the goal.

Nazon_Katts

^there's reason talkin', but that ain't got no place here.

Rest assured some bean counters are convinced there's ten times more potential players out there than the current player base and be sure everybody will be totally surprised when just every 100th joins, all the while the former player base dwindles into non-existence.

Been there and done just that. Changing the rules in a running game never works out all too well. Either be honest, close it and start up anew or be content with what you got and try to improve it.

The block buster approach of going big or going home just doesn't apply to MMOs, since there's too high a stake and single bet with too many unknowns. Start small and grow should be how it's done. ZOS is making the same mistake twice.

GunemCleric

I am satisfied with the middle ground. i just want to add a thank you to ZOS for reading our concerns and responding with a firm, concise, and fair compromise forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145544/feedback-to-the-champion-system#latest

DrErry

have they changed their position on the overhaul of the veteran and champion point system since december? Or is the OP still accurate?

EQBallzz

DrErry wrote: »

have they changed their position on the overhaul of the veteran and champion point system since december? Or is the OP still accurate?

Uhh..yeah. They are still doing it...uhhhh..soon(tm)? As soon as they can figure out how to wipe away 16 levels of progression without pissing off 80% of the playerbase and ruining all of the silver/gold content, crafting, itemization and the game economy. Considering they haven't figured out how to enable guild bank auto-stacking in 1.5 years without introducing item duping..you might not want to count on it anytime soon(tm).

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

DrErry wrote: »

have they changed their position on the overhaul of the veteran and champion point system since december? Or is the OP still accurate?

Uhh..yeah. They are still doing it...uhhhh..soon(tm)? As soon as they can figure out how to wipe away 16 levels of progression without pissing off 80% of the playerbase and ruining all of the silver/gold content, crafting, itemization and the game economy. Considering they haven't figured out how to enable guild bank auto-stacking in 1.5 years without introducing item duping..you might not want to count on it anytime soon(tm).

easy remove VRs, convert the experiencing to VRs into the champion points experience, put each VR rank attribute into the champion system to be unlocked after an equivalent of each VR in experience, then drop every player into level 50. even if ZOS did do this, they would screw it up like the justice system. they would implement each step over the course of the game life when DLC is released because they are only inclined to pad DLC with fixes to make them seem more important than they really are.

EQBallzz

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

DrErry wrote: »

have they changed their position on the overhaul of the veteran and champion point system since december? Or is the OP still accurate?

Uhh..yeah. They are still doing it...uhhhh..soon(tm)? As soon as they can figure out how to wipe away 16 levels of progression without pissing off 80% of the playerbase and ruining all of the silver/gold content, crafting, itemization and the game economy. Considering they haven't figured out how to enable guild bank auto-stacking in 1.5 years without introducing item duping..you might not want to count on it anytime soon(tm).

easy remove VRs, convert the experiencing to VRs into the champion points experience, put each VR rank attribute into the champion system to be unlocked after an equivalent of each VR in experience, then drop every player into level 50. even if ZOS did do this, they would screw it up like the justice system. they would implement each step over the course of the game life when DLC is released because they are only inclined to pad DLC with fixes to make them seem more important than they really are.

You say it's easy but it's not really that easy. People already complain that silver/gold is boring. If you strip out that much advancement can you imagine how boring silver/gold would be if you were level 50 through 2 entire factions only earning slight and unnoticeable progress through the Champ System? Sounds pretty awful.

It also doesn't address the issues with all the levels of crafting and itemization that are tied to those levels. You really think it's going to be acceptable to take v16 gold gear and drop it down to level 50 in power? Not to mention that you could then get the best gear in the game while only being 1/3 finished with the content. Who wants to go through two factions without ever getting an upgrade or making any discernible progress?

It's not as simple as just removing the levels and even if they did what you said it wouldn't really change much. People would still need to slog through the content to unlock all the equivalent "levels" in the CS so it's more slight of hand than anything. I have a feeling some of the same people complaining about VRs now would then complain about the CS system later because it will just transfer the level gap to a CP gap that is even bigger than it is now.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

DrErry wrote: »

have they changed their position on the overhaul of the veteran and champion point system since december? Or is the OP still accurate?

Uhh..yeah. They are still doing it...uhhhh..soon(tm)? As soon as they can figure out how to wipe away 16 levels of progression without pissing off 80% of the playerbase and ruining all of the silver/gold content, crafting, itemization and the game economy. Considering they haven't figured out how to enable guild bank auto-stacking in 1.5 years without introducing item duping..you might not want to count on it anytime soon(tm).

easy remove VRs, convert the experiencing to VRs into the champion points experience, put each VR rank attribute into the champion system to be unlocked after an equivalent of each VR in experience, then drop every player into level 50. even if ZOS did do this, they would screw it up like the justice system. they would implement each step over the course of the game life when DLC is released because they are only inclined to pad DLC with fixes to make them seem more important than they really are.

You say it's easy but it's not really that easy. People already complain that silver/gold is boring. If you strip out that much advancement can you imagine how boring silver/gold would be if you were level 50 through 2 entire factions only earning slight and unnoticeable progress through the Champ System? Sounds pretty awful.

It also doesn't address the issues with all the levels of crafting and itemization that are tied to those levels. You really think it's going to be acceptable to take v16 gold gear and drop it down to level 50 in power? Not to mention that you could then get the best gear in the game while only being 1/3 finished with the content. Who wants to go through two factions without ever getting an upgrade or making any discernible progress?

It's not as simple as just removing the levels and even if they did what you said it wouldn't really change much. People would still need to slog through the content to unlock all the equivalent "levels" in the CS so it's more slight of hand than anything. I have a feeling some of the same people complaining about VRs now would then complain about the CS system later because it will just transfer the level gap to a CP gap that is even bigger than it is now.

yeah, people will always complain about a system they can't beat... its stupid now to complain about VRs when all it does is unlock a skill point, an attribute point and gear to grind. VRs are short term goals, the champion system is long term. both compliment each other so stop working for VRs and just focus on the champion points, and the VRs will follow.

all they would have to do is put gear to the same experience levels on the champion system as equals the corresponding VR experience requirements, and saying they will "drop it down to level 50" is dumb. no they wouldn't do that... why would they? they can tie it to the champ system which gives the same results through point expenditures as VRs render, with my proposed changes.

what my point was, is they will *** it up. more than likely, they would convert gear to be based on champion points, then 6 months later remove and convert VR experience into the champion system or some dip *** thing like that, if they followed my proposal (which they won't)

programming it = hard

conceptualizing = easy

nit picking and complaining = nothing

there is always going to be a gap between the hardcore players, and the easy-chair players. just suck it up, that someone that puts more time and effort into something is going to be better than you. its just how the system works. don't like the system(s)... dont play. most MMOers will tell you they stopped playing <MMO X> for some reason. i quit LOTRO because it was too easy; i quit WoW because the community sucked; i quit EQ because my friends list went to WoW.... its okay to quit if you don't like something.

EQBallzz

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

DrErry wrote: »

have they changed their position on the overhaul of the veteran and champion point system since december? Or is the OP still accurate?

Uhh..yeah. They are still doing it...uhhhh..soon(tm)? As soon as they can figure out how to wipe away 16 levels of progression without pissing off 80% of the playerbase and ruining all of the silver/gold content, crafting, itemization and the game economy. Considering they haven't figured out how to enable guild bank auto-stacking in 1.5 years without introducing item duping..you might not want to count on it anytime soon(tm).

easy remove VRs, convert the experiencing to VRs into the champion points experience, put each VR rank attribute into the champion system to be unlocked after an equivalent of each VR in experience, then drop every player into level 50. even if ZOS did do this, they would screw it up like the justice system. they would implement each step over the course of the game life when DLC is released because they are only inclined to pad DLC with fixes to make them seem more important than they really are.

You say it's easy but it's not really that easy. People already complain that silver/gold is boring. If you strip out that much advancement can you imagine how boring silver/gold would be if you were level 50 through 2 entire factions only earning slight and unnoticeable progress through the Champ System? Sounds pretty awful.

It also doesn't address the issues with all the levels of crafting and itemization that are tied to those levels. You really think it's going to be acceptable to take v16 gold gear and drop it down to level 50 in power? Not to mention that you could then get the best gear in the game while only being 1/3 finished with the content. Who wants to go through two factions without ever getting an upgrade or making any discernible progress?

It's not as simple as just removing the levels and even if they did what you said it wouldn't really change much. People would still need to slog through the content to unlock all the equivalent "levels" in the CS so it's more slight of hand than anything. I have a feeling some of the same people complaining about VRs now would then complain about the CS system later because it will just transfer the level gap to a CP gap that is even bigger than it is now.

yeah, people will always complain about a system they can't beat... its stupid now to complain about VRs when all it does is unlock a skill point, an attribute point and gear to grind. VRs are short term goals, the champion system is long term. both compliment each other so stop working for VRs and just focus on the champion points, and the VRs will follow.

all they would have to do is put gear to the same experience levels on the champion system as equals the corresponding VR experience requirements, and saying they will "drop it down to level 50" is dumb. no they wouldn't do that... why would they? they can tie it to the champ system which gives the same results through point expenditures as VRs render, with my proposed changes.

what my point was, is they will *** it up. more than likely, they would convert gear to be based on champion points, then 6 months later remove and convert VR experience into the champion system or some dip *** thing like that, if they followed my proposal (which they won't)

programming it = hard

conceptualizing = easy

nit picking and complaining = nothing

there is always going to be a gap between the hardcore players, and the easy-chair players. just suck it up, that someone that puts more time and effort into something is going to be better than you. its just how the system works. don't like the system(s)... dont play. most MMOers will tell you they stopped playing <MMO X> for some reason. i quit LOTRO because it was too easy; i quit WoW because the community sucked; i quit EQ because my friends list went to WoW.... its okay to quit if you don't like something.

I agree with you mostly and have been saying this for a long while. I think if/when they do "get rid" of vet levels it will likely be one of two ways. Either they will directly tie gear and crafting to the CS like you mentioned or they will remove "vet levels" and add more "regular" levels. So vet levels would go away but there would be a new cap of 60 (or something) and the vet progression would be mapped onto those new levels.

Either way it won't end up being what people are expecting or wanting. Most of the complaints about the vet system are that it's boring or a "grind' to go through all the factions/vet levels. That won't change because you will need to anyway to get a competitive level of CP. The other big complaint is the level gap created between players and it won't change that, either. It will just transfer the vet level gap to a regular level gap or tiered armor gap.

Regardless, people won't get to magically be equal to those who started earlier and/or played more. The truth of the matter is these people won't ever be happy because they want a GW2 type system in ESO and that's never going to happen so there will always be people out-classing them in some way.

Heroborg

I like Veteran Ranks better because it feels like more of an achievement. When a less expirenced player looks at you they see you as a leader and strive to be you equal. VR gives players something to strive for you can add CP but keep VR too.

RAW23

Here's the fix to all the problems with Champion Points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk6oYAiQGNo

Prabooo

only one question... why get rid of the veteran ranks?

RA187

Prabooo wrote: »

only one question... why get rid of the veteran ranks?

also leads to another question, when they implement the VR ranks kept us thinking as to why the devs even implement it in the first place? fro beta till now there's a lot of changes and i for one am tired of figuring out my builds when they change these stuffs, i'm sure people are thinking of why cap the Champion Points at 500 when they about to remove the VR ranks, why not let the CP move on and remove the VR ranks? or the other way around since we have the achievements for it.