Champion System Clarification

Joy_Division

lordrichter wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

while I agree that ZOS handled the promise made on Oct 3 , a promise they should never have made , poorly at best .

As quoted by several people in the forum, I do not consider what was said in October to be a promise in the sense of it being a commitment that they would take no other action or make no other decision.

People treating it like that may feel justified in doing it, but there may be a price to pay. What is likely to happen is that ZOS will shut down communication of any speculation or direction of development information that we get. We will find out what they are working on at the last minute, after all of the details are decided, QA is done, and it is ready for, or already on, PTS. If we are lucky enough to see it on PTS before it goes Live.

This may make the Broken Promises people happy, but it leaves less opportunity for comment and, in the end, may result in significantly more "what in the Oblivion are you doing?!" comments after the fact.

I prefer to view the statement from Maria as a direction of development. An intent to develop in a particular direction instead of a commitment to develop in a particular direction.

The burden placed on ZOS in this situation, whether or not you think it is a Promise or an Intent, is where they failed. They failed, repeatedly, to be up front about correcting that statement. To be honest, except for a statement from Kai, in German, they still have not.

This should have been said right away by Maria in ESO Live. People make mistakes. The spotlight was on. Eric was being disruptive. These things can get skipped. Having not said it there, it should have been very clearly stated in the "Clarification" press release that they posted on Monday.

Here, let me write the English version that you should have said up front. ZOS, you can just can just pop a CM in here and confirm it and we can call this done.

"We apologize that we have to change a statement that we made back in October where we said that your earned XP would continue to earn Champion Points. When we redesigned the system and made Champion Points more valuable, it became clear that this would not be possible. We are looking at ways to make sure that long-term players receive reward for their work and will let you know when we decide what that will be."

I'm sorry, but what was said on October 3rd was about as close to a promise as you can get without a signed contract.

And you are worried about ZoS being less communicative in the future? That's rather amusing...you do realize this is the same company that has a track record of saying nothing: from the dubious insistence on hanging onto non-disclosure agreement until a mere few weeks before release to the statement in the OP that, as you point out yourself, lacks the specifics that should have been in there.

Elsonso

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what was said on October 3rd was about as close to a promise as you can get without a signed contract.

And you are worried about ZoS being less communicative in the future? That's rather amusing...you do realize this is the same company that has a track record of saying nothing: from the dubious insistence on hanging onto non-disclosure agreement until a mere few weeks before release to the statement in the OP that, as you point out yourself, lacks the specifics that should have been in there.

If you know anything about my posting history, you know that I have been almost relentless when it comes to critiquing the communications from ZOS. I want them to vastly improve, not just incrementally. I have tried negative feedback. I have tried positive feedback. I have tried being nice and being brutally honest. I have tried sarcasm, humor, and lecturing. I tried telling Santa to pass them over this year, but I guess someone else got there before me. Today, I tried writing their press release for them. I suppose I could try paying them. I feel if I do any more they will owe me a consulting fee, so I try not to take this too seriously.

They have been improving, just not enough to go bragging about it quite yet.

They are at least trying and I have to give them that credit. They have moments when they talk to us about what is coming. It is those moments that I want to make sure that we don't lose. Pushing this "promise" concept runs the risk of getting them to just clam up. They don't want to make promises they cannot keep any more than we do. If they think something they say might become a commitment they cannot promise to keep, they might just stop saying anything until they can. That might be too late.

I want them to be open about what they are doing, what their plans are, and what they hope to accomplish... even if these things are not yet cast in stone. I want them to just tell us when these things change, up front and without hesitation. Open and timely communication can help build a community that is more invested in the game and where the developers are not distant and impersonal. A place where they don't talk to us using press releases.

Maybe I am naive, but I fear that y'all are not helping by pushing the broken promise instead of the need for communication when things change.

I also fear that this tips my hand, so Zenimax people should forget they saw this.

DanielMaxwell

lordrichter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what was said on October 3rd was about as close to a promise as you can get without a signed contract.

And you are worried about ZoS being less communicative in the future? That's rather amusing...you do realize this is the same company that has a track record of saying nothing: from the dubious insistence on hanging onto non-disclosure agreement until a mere few weeks before release to the statement in the OP that, as you point out yourself, lacks the specifics that should have been in there.

If you know anything about my posting history, you know that I have been almost relentless when it comes to critiquing the communications from ZOS. I want them to vastly improve, not just incrementally. I have tried negative feedback. I have tried positive feedback. I have tried being nice and being brutally honest. I have tried sarcasm, humor, and lecturing. I tried telling Santa to pass them over this year, but I guess someone else got there before me. Today, I tried writing their press release for them. I suppose I could try paying them. I feel if I do any more they will owe me a consulting fee, so I try not to take this too seriously.

They have been improving, just not enough to go bragging about it quite yet.

They are at least trying and I have to give them that credit. They have moments when they talk to us about what is coming. It is those moments that I want to make sure that we don't lose. Pushing this "promise" concept runs the risk of getting them to just clam up. They don't want to make promises they cannot keep any more than we do. If they think something they say might become a commitment they cannot promise to keep, they might just stop saying anything until they can. That might be too late.

I want them to be open about what they are doing, what their plans are, and what they hope to accomplish... even if these things are not yet cast in stone. I want them to just tell us when these things change, up front and without hesitation. Open and timely communication can help build a community that is more invested in the game and where the developers are not distant and impersonal. A place where they don't talk to us using press releases.

Maybe I am naive, but I fear that y'all are not helping by pushing the broken promise instead of the need for communication when things change.

I also fear that this tips my hand, so Zenimax people should forget they saw this.

I think this message needs to forwarded to the people at ZOS in the hopes they actually read it and learn from it that good clear communications is a benefit to them and the community .

Navaya

Even if I do understand their reason to give everyone the same amount of Champion points. I am still a tiny bit frustrated. People that have completed every single quest in the entire game (like my self) will have to start farm xp by grinding or do those daily quests, which will get boring very fast.
I think it would be a good idea to give people that have completed the Silver or Gold quest content bonus points, like 5 for each.

I just hope that they will introduce some way for us in 1.6 that will make grinding xp not boring. Things like increase xp gain at max lvl, more xp in trials and dungeons. Stuff like that, because there is nothing more boring than just farming the same enemies over and over again.
Or daily quests that is NOT be the same everyday, quests that you can pick up each day which will be a random choice of some quests, quests that can be done solo and in group. Much like the pledges quests.

Dazin93

lordrichter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what was said on October 3rd was about as close to a promise as you can get without a signed contract.

And you are worried about ZoS being less communicative in the future? That's rather amusing...you do realize this is the same company that has a track record of saying nothing: from the dubious insistence on hanging onto non-disclosure agreement until a mere few weeks before release to the statement in the OP that, as you point out yourself, lacks the specifics that should have been in there.

If you know anything about my posting history, you know that I have been almost relentless when it comes to critiquing the communications from ZOS. I want them to vastly improve, not just incrementally. I have tried negative feedback. I have tried positive feedback. I have tried being nice and being brutally honest. I have tried sarcasm, humor, and lecturing. I tried telling Santa to pass them over this year, but I guess someone else got there before me. Today, I tried writing their press release for them. I suppose I could try paying them. I feel if I do any more they will owe me a consulting fee, so I try not to take this too seriously.

They have been improving, just not enough to go bragging about it quite yet.

They are at least trying and I have to give them that credit. They have moments when they talk to us about what is coming. It is those moments that I want to make sure that we don't lose. Pushing this "promise" concept runs the risk of getting them to just clam up. They don't want to make promises they cannot keep any more than we do. If they think something they say might become a commitment they cannot promise to keep, they might just stop saying anything until they can. That might be too late.

I want them to be open about what they are doing, what their plans are, and what they hope to accomplish... even if these things are not yet cast in stone. I want them to just tell us when these things change, up front and without hesitation. Open and timely communication can help build a community that is more invested in the game and where the developers are not distant and impersonal. A place where they don't talk to us using press releases.

Maybe I am naive, but I fear that y'all are not helping by pushing the broken promise instead of the need for communication when things change.

I also fear that this tips my hand, so Zenimax people should forget they saw this.

One could assume were that their previous statement was misguided or that they do not have ill intentions. However, I have been actively playing MMO's since 1999 and never once have I ever had character/game progression taken away from me that I have already earned.

Expansions and new content to include level and gear increases always happen and in a sense lessens your character's relative power (same as inflation can lessen buying power) but this decision by ZoS for 1.6 and 1.7 is taking away progression that has already been earned and can't even be compared.

Please provide me examples of other successful games that have done such a thing because I have never played them. This isn't just about communication issues; it's also about the disastrous mismanagement of a game that at its core could have been great. ZoS obviously didn't learn from other MMO's mistakes, but future games sure can learn from theirs.

Elsonso

Dazin93 wrote: »

One could assume were that their previous statement was misguided or that they do not have ill intentions. However, I have been actively playing MMO's since 1999 and never once have I ever had character/game progression taken away from me that I have already earned.

Expansions and new content to include level and gear increases always happen and in a sense lessens your character's relative power (same as inflation can lessen buying power) but this decision by ZoS for 1.6 and 1.7 is taking away progression that has already been earned and can't even be compared.

Please provide me examples of other successful games that have done such a thing because I have never played them. This isn't just about communication issues; it's also about the disastrous mismanagement of a game that at its core could have been great. ZoS obviously didn't learn from other MMO's mistakes, but future games sure can learn from theirs.

I hope you are not asking me, because this is what I have been saying. I think that retaining player progression in the game is the responsibility of ZOS and not something that they can lightly disregard, no matter what the ToS might say.

Enodoc

To be honest, I don't see why they don't just make 30 CPs the cap. Award 1 CP per 500,000 XP above Level 50 up to a cap of 30 CPs.

Giving every Veteran 30 CPs as a flat rate will create separation between the guy who hit VR1 for the first time yesterday, and the guy who is 99% through Lvl 49. There should be no separation between them, as they are only 2 XP apart, but VR1 guy gets 30 CPs that Lvl 49 guy can never get.

Dazin93

Enodoc wrote: »

To be honest, I don't see why they don't just make 30 CPs the cap. Award 1 CP per 500,000 XP above Level 50 up to a cap of 30 CPs.

Giving every Veteran 30 CPs as a flat rate will create separation between the guy who hit VR1 for the first time yesterday, and the guy who is 99% through Lvl 49. There should be no separation between them, as they are only 2 XP apart, but VR1 guy gets 30 CPs that Lvl 49 guy can never get.

As others have stated, the developers likely screwed up and have not been tracking experience or discovered they don't even have the capability to do so and as a result "changed their development direction".

What you are saying makes absolute sense and there has been many similar logical suggestions, yet ZoS chose a route that defies most logical conclusions.

reften

What a mess. Why is this all so complicated? Games have been doing leveling for 30+ years....you get a level you get health and skills. Regular levels...vet level . CP's...silly

Voodoo

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Voodoo wrote: »

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Voodoo wrote: »

ZOS despite all this nerd rage. I for one am VERY excited for this sytem to come forward and relace this stagate VR system. ANYTHING is better than whats currently in place and this system sounds alot more exciting even if the nerds can only see the glass half empty (getting away from computer helps).

Oh look, more ad hominem. What a valid argument! Who knew calling people nerds suddenly became fashionable, again? Look, it's 1984, and Anthony Edwards has hair.

It sure was nice of you to let ZOS know they can make and break promises to you, blithely, without having to worry about anything like your sense of pride, dignity, or self-respect getting in the way.

No kidding, the "stop complaining" retort is not an argument. You're not defending a position. You're not *saying* anything. All you did was call people names, which is a laughably weak response.

LOL! Whats funny is that you are soo mad that you dont understand (nor want too-even if they did explain it in the OP - try re-reading it) that all you think is OMG they LIED!!! to us!! ...ya right!

Go back and re-read the OP! then you might? understand why they CHANGE thier original game plan.

....here's a heads up for you! ---> They might even CHANGE it again!!

Hahahaha. What's funny is that they told you "Just keep playing, good things are coming, ignore everything that's broken, just keep playing, good things are coming, pay no attention that man behind the curtain, good things are coming, just keep playing," and you're dancing on the end of their string like a marionette.

Some people have battered-subscriber syndrome. How many times must ZOS knock you to the floor before you realize they don't love you back?

hahahahahaha and yet here you are still playing this game! wow man if it gets to you that much I got an idea for ya .... stop playing!

They have not battered me on the floor lol! THIS IS A GAME! Not a freaking JOB! the moment it feels that way I will stop PAYING THEM! I suggest YOU DO THAT! ,....It will also help shorten this thread dramatically by not having you farm it with all your replies!

Back on topic! ZOS I BELIEVE YOU! You "DID NOT LIE TO US". You changed your minds and I agree with that ....those of you that dont and cant live with it can stop playing this GAME any time now!

DanielMaxwell

in an earlier post I suggested that players provide some feedback here for ZOS along the lines of alternate ideas that might be an acceptable compromise for both sides . along those lines I have 2 suggestions that i am going to post as separate posts .

enjoy ripping into each one after I post them

DanielMaxwell

Suggestion 1


ZOS resets all level 50 and veteran rank quests , all reset quests are flagged to provide full champion system xp regardless of players VR

Players keep all levels they currently have .
Players lose only the skill points that are awarded by the reset quests
Players are not awarded any head start points in the champion system


Pros : starts all players in the new champion system with almost the exact same amount of content to use for progressing through the champion system
Veteran rank players do not lose champion system xp due to being higher level then the quests are

Cons : veteran rank players will still be reset to level 50 in phase 4

DanielMaxwell

Suggestion 2


Phase 3 ZOS raises the level cap to 70 , converts all veteran ranks over to the appropriate level . All veteran rank NPC's and quests are also assigned the new appropriate levels . Phase 4 is when players gain access to the champion system with phase 4 being delayed until ZOS has had the time to develop the needed leveling content for levels 63-70.

Level conversion (vr1 = level 50 , vr2 = level 51 , vr3 = level 52 , vr4 = level 53 , vr55 = level 54 , vr6 = level 55 , vr7 = level 56 , vr8 = level 57 , vr9 = level 58 , vr10 = level 59 , vr11 = level 60 , vr12 = level 61 , vr13 = level 62 , vr14 = level 63)

Pros : no body loses content, no players are reset , removes VR system without punishing current VR players , and does not require rebalancing of existing content .

Cons : some players will grind repeatable content to level 70 early to gain a PvP/PVE advantage , Phase 4 is delayed for an unknown length of time while the new leveling content is developed

Nazon_Katts

oO

EQBallzz

Suggestion 1: uhhh no thanks. Some of us have done silver/gold quests all the way through multiple times already. I have little desire to do them again anytime soon. I have one other alt that I may level up later but no plans atm (especially if this debacle goes live and my sub expires).

Suggestion 2: Too convoluted. Sorry that is not going to happen.

My suggestion: Do what you assured us you would do. Determine some fair ratio of XP to convert into CP. You have the whole spectrum of numbers at your disposal to make the ratio as fair as you want without doing away with it entirely. If you want something even easier you could award some number of CP for every vet level earned across all characters. This isn't rocket science.

Kaliki

EQBallzz wrote: »

My suggestion: Do what you assured us you would do. Determine some fair ratio of XP to convert into CP. You have the whole spectrum of numbers at your disposal to make the ratio as fair as you want without doing away with it entirely. If you want something even easier you could award some number of CP for every vet level earned across all characters. This isn't rocket science.

I agree. They are after all removing a progression system, how can they intend on deleting all our XP earned in that system? What MMO has ever done a reset of this scale?
CS replaces VR, so there should be an adequate compensation for progress into the old system. Otherwise it means they are literally deleting (an important portion of) our progress so far. Veteran content is 2/3 of all content played for many people...

Layenem

oren74 wrote: »

What a mess. Why is this all so complicated? Games have been doing leveling for 30+ years....you get a level you get health and skills. Regular levels...vet level . CP's...silly

Nah, CP is far from silly. EQ1 had the best AA system in the MMO world and games have been trying to top it ever since... Not one has. MOST MMOs that create a sideways progression tend to corner you into a specific mold or offer only two options... What boggles my mind is why people try so hard to perfect something that was accidentally flawless from its inception?

I say accidentally because EQ1 couldn't have possibly known what they were truly doing, they just wanted to provide more hours of gameplay. They are the only AA system that hasn't had to go through any type of overhaul... They merged their abilities into less trees, to help rid the confusion and overwhelming choices for newer players, but that's not an overhaul, that's an auto sort.

Let's hope ZOS isn't ignoring this thread. Let's also hope that the fears from them removing their 6 month subscription plan aren't going to pass. If that's the case they might as well say so now cause I don't want to be a part of a ship that has no faith it can stay afloat. (NOT trying to start a F2P discussion here, just pointing out that we're in the Holiday Weekend and now we're looking at two major signs with NO response from ZOS aside from some horrible response about "the other two options were more popular"... Clearly we are as dumb as we look)

Enaijo

The MMO that, for me, was the best out there and for the foreseeable future is now the first MMO in my ~10 years of playing MMOs with such a big mess. Telling the people that roughly 2/3 of what they've done will be worth nothing is just a big scandal.

I liked the people @ ZOS very much, but I don't know how something like this could go through all the instances it has to, to get approved.

If this comes to the attention of massively & co., I'm sure it will be a big hit on the numbers for ZOS and I'm really sad about this, because it would be so easy to avoid, so easy ...

Muizer

Suggestion 3:

- introduce the system as planned in phase 3
- get some people to play through Cadwell's silver and gold
- set up a simple graph which plots CS progression vs the old veteran ranks progression
- in phase 4 use the graph to award accounts CP based on their highest ranked character and remove veteran ranks.

How difficult can it be.

Akhratos

Personal suggestion.

Award an ammount of CP depending on VR level from VR1 to VR14. VR1 gets 2CP, VR14 gets 30CP.

Besides the VR level, people who already completed Caldwells Almanac are screwed in terms of potential CP gain from solo content after the patch goes live.

Solution: Award CP for every Caldwels completed almanac hub, zone and upon total completion:
- 1CP for every hub completed listed in Caldwels.
- 1CP for every zone listed in Caldwels (zones being the sum of various hubs)
- 10CP for the total completion of both silver/gold.

If there are a total of 10 zones with an average of 5 hubs each listed in Caldwells Almanac, that would neat:
- 10*5=50CP for all hubs completed.
- 10*1=10CP for all zones completed (just right after completing the last hub, extra CP for completing zone rewarded).
- 10CP for Silver/Gold completion.

50+10+10 = 70CP for people with the Caldwells Almanac already completed when the patch goes live.

A player VR14 with Caldwells Almanac completed would get 30+70=100CP.
A player VR14 who got there grinding would get 30CP, but would still have the chance to get the extra 70CP by later doing almanac quests.
A player in the middle of their Caldwells way, VR6, would get 15CP + 35CP (silver complete) = 50CP.
A player recently hitting VR1 would get 2CP.


I dont think that anything in my suggestion would be hard to code by ZOS, as all that information necessary is already held by the server, unlike the XP gained past VR14 through grinding (I really never believed them when they said they were "tracking" it) and other means.

100CP/3500CP total makes for 2.85% Champions system progress. Hardly anything to worry about.
Supposing someone has 8 chars maxed with Caldwells completed in everyone of them (I doubt there are that many people who made this), that would make 22.8%, not that high either, but they could put a limit of CP reward for only the 3 or 4 highest chars in the account.


Anything but what they are planning to do.

EQBallzz

Archaon wrote: »

Personal suggestion.

Award an ammount of CP depending on VR level from VR1 to VR14. VR1 gets 2CP, VR14 gets 30CP.

Besides the VR level, people who already completed Caldwells Almanac are screwed in terms of potential CP gain from solo content after the patch goes live.

Solution: Award CP for every Caldwels completed almanac hub, zone and upon total completion:
- 1CP for every hub completed listed in Caldwels.
- 1CP for every zone listed in Caldwels (zones being the sum of various hubs)
- 10CP for the total completion of both silver/gold.

If there are a total of 10 zones with an average of 5 hubs each listed in Caldwells Almanac, that would neat:
- 10*5=50CP for all hubs completed.
- 10*1=10CP for all zones completed (just right after completing the last hub, extra CP for completing zone rewarded).
- 10CP for Silver/Gold completion.

50+10+10 = 70CP for people with the Caldwells Almanac already completed when the patch goes live.

A player VR14 with Caldwells Almanac completed would get 30+70=100CP.
A player VR14 who got there grinding would get 30CP, but would still have the chance to get the extra 70CP by later doing almanac quests.
A player in the middle of their Caldwells way, VR6, would get 15CP + 35CP (silver complete) = 50CP.
A player recently hitting VR1 would get 2CP.


I dont think that anything in my suggestion would be hard to code by ZOS, as all that information necessary is already held by the server, unlike the XP gained past VR14 through grinding (I really never believed them when they said they were "tracking" it) and other means.

100CP/3500CP total makes for 2.85% Champions system progress. Hardly anything to worry about.
Supposing someone has 8 chars maxed with Caldwells completed in everyone of them (I doubt there are that many people who made this), that would make 22.8%, not that high either, but they could put a limit of CP reward for only the 3 or 4 highest chars in the account.


Anything but what they are planning to do.

That's a perfectly reasonable suggestion but there are an infinite number of reasonable options available to them and they came up with something that completely ignores all vet player progress so what do you think the chances are that they are going to be reasonable?

Xsorus

This hasn't even made it to PTS yet, crying about potential changes that didn't work out in development is pointless.

Akhratos

EQBallzz wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

Personal suggestion.

Award an ammount of CP depending on VR level from VR1 to VR14. VR1 gets 2CP, VR14 gets 30CP.

Besides the VR level, people who already completed Caldwells Almanac are screwed in terms of potential CP gain from solo content after the patch goes live.

Solution: Award CP for every Caldwels completed almanac hub, zone and upon total completion:
- 1CP for every hub completed listed in Caldwels.
- 1CP for every zone listed in Caldwels (zones being the sum of various hubs)
- 10CP for the total completion of both silver/gold.

If there are a total of 10 zones with an average of 5 hubs each listed in Caldwells Almanac, that would neat:
- 10*5=50CP for all hubs completed.
- 10*1=10CP for all zones completed (just right after completing the last hub, extra CP for completing zone rewarded).
- 10CP for Silver/Gold completion.

50+10+10 = 70CP for people with the Caldwells Almanac already completed when the patch goes live.

A player VR14 with Caldwells Almanac completed would get 30+70=100CP.
A player VR14 who got there grinding would get 30CP, but would still have the chance to get the extra 70CP by later doing almanac quests.
A player in the middle of their Caldwells way, VR6, would get 15CP + 35CP (silver complete) = 50CP.
A player recently hitting VR1 would get 2CP.


I dont think that anything in my suggestion would be hard to code by ZOS, as all that information necessary is already held by the server, unlike the XP gained past VR14 through grinding (I really never believed them when they said they were "tracking" it) and other means.

100CP/3500CP total makes for 2.85% Champions system progress. Hardly anything to worry about.
Supposing someone has 8 chars maxed with Caldwells completed in everyone of them (I doubt there are that many people who made this), that would make 22.8%, not that high either, but they could put a limit of CP reward for only the 3 or 4 highest chars in the account.


Anything but what they are planning to do.

That's a perfectly reasonable suggestion but there are an infinite number of reasonable options available to them and they came up with something that completely ignores all vet player progress so what do you think the chances are that they are going to be reasonable?

You are right EQBallzz. It would not have been that hard for them to come with a CP reward system similar to what I wrote and yet they decide to come up and tell us we will get absolute nothing.

Rewarding the people that has already completed such content is a must and it does represent almost nothing compared to the whole 3600CP total the champion system is made of.

Their lack of willing is disrespectful towards their veteran customers. I hopethey get their **** together and come with a better solution than this one. I doubt they could bring a worse one.

Layenem

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

This hasn't even made it to PTS yet, crying about potential changes that didn't work out in development is pointless

Hey guys look! Another person who'd rather insult people than contribute to the conversation at hand!

Oh, and he/she completely missed the point that we're looking for clarity on whether or not they are compensating for giving us the go ahead to complete the content knowing we couldn't get access to that exp afterwards. It's a question. Read through the thread buddy. After that, I would consider googling "How to contribute meaningful information to a conversation" as you are currently struggling with this concept.

If you have any questions about what meaningful conversation is you can send me a message or look up what the term "material" means in this regard. It may help you tremendously! Actually, it would help all of us tremendously!

Bettering a community by bettering yourself = Priceless!

Enodoc

Dazin93 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

To be honest, I don't see why they don't just make 30 CPs the cap. Award 1 CP per 500,000 XP above Level 50 up to a cap of 30 CPs.

Giving every Veteran 30 CPs as a flat rate will create separation between the guy who hit VR1 for the first time yesterday, and the guy who is 99% through Lvl 49. There should be no separation between them, as they are only 2 XP apart, but VR1 guy gets 30 CPs that Lvl 49 guy can never get.

As others have stated, the developers likely screwed up and have not been tracking experience or discovered they don't even have the capability to do so and as a result "changed their development direction".

What you are saying makes absolute sense and there has been many similar logical suggestions, yet ZoS chose a route that defies most logical conclusions.

That may be so, but tracking for this actually isn't really needed. They know what Vet Rank everyone is, and how far through we are to the next one. Each rank is worth 1,000,000 XP. Someone with a VR14 would get 26 CPs with this suggestion if they weren't tracking properly after VR14. (Everything before VR14 is tracked anyway). With 2 more chars both at VR2, they would hit the cap of 30.
I personally would only get 1 CP, as I am 700,000 XP through VR 1, but I think that is a lot fairer than me getting 30 CPs that I haven't earned, and 30 CPs that my friend who is Lvl 40 will never get, as they are not likely to hit 50 before this rolls out.

Joejudas

How have they still not addressed this yet......seriously ? People will continue to stop paying you money ZOS. I guess at some point you might go broke enough to just answer the question.

Sethro_27

I actually haven't been playing my veteran rank knowing you guys were going to make changes, and all I can say is I can't wait. This seems like an awesome idea and I hope this little bit of positivity goes your way since I know it's coming mine. Happy Holidays development team!

eventide03b14a_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

Antiquity wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

Antiquity wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Wow. So where are the chest with free Sanctum Ophidia gear? We dont want people to get extra advantage for working hard dont we?

Of course you should be able to work hard for an advantage. But others should be able to work hard to catch up, as well.

Or the instant they turn vr1 apparently

Oh.... I wasn't aware I would hit VR1 and instantly be handed VR14 gear, and the same number of skill and ability points as a VR14. Where do I go to get it?

Say, maybe you mean they're taking away all the gear, skill points and ability points VR14s already have. No?

So then. They're not giving me anything for free that VR14s arent getting for free. They're also not taking anything away from VR14s that they dont currently have already.
Where does this leave us? With VR14s having exactly the same head start they had before.

No one is losing. No one is gaining. I will still have to work just as hard to earn VR14 as they did.

I'm losing possible content to complete. I quest. I don't love pvp. End game content is mostly group related. There is little to nothing for someone to play solo. A v1 has all silver/gold content ahead of them to earn points with, I will not.
And once the full system is in place, then there will be no v14 vs v1, it will be everyone a max or vet and some with content to do and some without for months until new stuff is released.

Had the game been a sandbox instead of this ridiculous Cadwell silver and gold nonsense, a person could have easily finished the main story and then gone around doing quests in other factions without restriction to a story line. I leveled so quickly to 50 in the beginning I missed many quests for those levels and now I find no reason to go back and do them. The quest rewards were never great to begin with I certainly have no reason to do them for a level 30 item. If they had put as much thought into the quest rewards are they put into the voice acting and dialog it might be worth actually doing old content.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

@Sharee, I believe you were putting your foot in your mouth...

When was that post made? 3rd october.

Was the system already done on 3rd october? No. It was not even on the PTS yet.

What does this means? It means it was still work in progress.

Maria informed you about the current state of development at oct 3, when ZOS intended to track XP and make it count towards initial CP pool. She did not promise that this could not possibly change.

The only thing you could possibly blame her for is that she did not explicitly state "this is still work in progress and things may change" for those people who don't understand that is always true up until the code is on live.

It still isn't on the pts. Your argument is invalid again.

Invalid? The fact it still is not on PTS supports my argument that the champion system is still work-in-progress.

If it is a still a work in progress they can decide not to betray their customers. Also I haven't heard anyone blame maria by name. Unless her last name is ZoS. The point is you claim its ok to change something because it was not even on pts, but that also means it can change back.

Of course they can still make changes, and i even expect them to, that is the whole point of putting it on PTS in the firstplace.

Tweaking the numbers is one thing. Capping it at 30 after telling us they were going to track XP is completely different.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Ethona wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

while I agree that ZOS handled the promise made on Oct 3 , a promise they should never have made , poorly at best .

I do not agree with those who blame ZOS for for their choice to play all of the available non-repeatable content when they could have chosen to play the repeatable content and save the non-repeatable for when the champion system is launched .

I think there needs to be some sort of compromise from ZOS and the players who are upset about that promise .
ZOS needs to apologize to the player base and explain what caused them to change their minds about the oct 3 promise in greater detail , with out any misdirection , then they have to date and why it took them so long to make the player base aware of this change.

The players who are upset need to come to terms with the fact they are not going to get more then 30 champion system points and come up with some plausible alternatives that are reasonably balanced that ZOS can review and possibly implement to alleviate their concerns about not being able advance in the new champion system in a competitive manner .

Well they could reset silver/gold including Craglorn quests! That would allow us to do those quests again and not feel so cheated. That's what I'd call meet in the middle. Oh wait, this would be too hard for them, you know with all them achievements and such. Just give us the points we would have earned base on the XP we gained after VR1 ... you know, the plan they couldn't make work for whatever reason. Give me 60 CP and I'll call it a deal.

We shouldn't have to redo them either.