Champion System Clarification

eventide03b14a_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

Layenem wrote: »

TheRealSkippy wrote: »

One thing I didn't read yet is:

What happens to all the Veteran rank items?

Will everything be scaled down to lvl 50? Because there are different values on the items between Veteran 1 and Veteran 14. What will happen to them? How do you handle that?

Who knows at this point. Maybe vet levels will be staying in game...

We'll know when 1.7 comes to live, not until then.

They said in the ESO Live (I think it was) that items would have a slight difference but the stats would be condensed down to be the same. He said for example some of the v14 stuff might have an extra effect on it or something but they didn't give too many details on it.

I am going to laugh so hard when all those idiots who paid over 100k for their warlock rings find out that it's no better than the V1 ring I paid 1k for.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Rune_Relic wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

As far as Eric is concerned...alternative measures will be put in place to compensate for the Veteran Rank loss...when they finally get removed.

Yeah, we can really believe some vague statement when we can't even believe clear and precise statements that assure everyone they are not wasting their time. Sorry but that doesn't fly.

So you can ignore the statement that 30cp is all you will get then ?

Tamriel Foundry is not run by or supported in any way by ZOS. I'm not suggesting that they are dishonest, but why would anyone rely on a third party source instead of the forums that are run by and supported by ZOS?

Epsilon_Echo

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

As far as Eric is concerned...alternative measures will be put in place to compensate for the Veteran Rank loss...when they finally get removed.

Yeah, we can really believe some vague statement when we can't even believe clear and precise statements that assure everyone they are not wasting their time. Sorry but that doesn't fly.

So you can ignore the statement that 30cp is all you will get then ?

Tamriel Foundry is not run by or supported in any way by ZOS. I'm not suggesting that they are dishonest, but why would anyone rely on a third party source instead of the forums that are run by and supported by ZOS?

I see you're new here. Welcome to ZoS.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

As far as Eric is concerned...alternative measures will be put in place to compensate for the Veteran Rank loss...when they finally get removed.

Yeah, we can really believe some vague statement when we can't even believe clear and precise statements that assure everyone they are not wasting their time. Sorry but that doesn't fly.

So you can ignore the statement that 30cp is all you will get then ?

Tamriel Foundry is not run by or supported in any way by ZOS. I'm not suggesting that they are dishonest, but why would anyone rely on a third party source instead of the forums that are run by and supported by ZOS?

I see you're new here. Welcome to ZoS.

Not really. Count the stars.

Epsilon_Echo

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

As far as Eric is concerned...alternative measures will be put in place to compensate for the Veteran Rank loss...when they finally get removed.

Yeah, we can really believe some vague statement when we can't even believe clear and precise statements that assure everyone they are not wasting their time. Sorry but that doesn't fly.

So you can ignore the statement that 30cp is all you will get then ?

Tamriel Foundry is not run by or supported in any way by ZOS. I'm not suggesting that they are dishonest, but why would anyone rely on a third party source instead of the forums that are run by and supported by ZOS?

I see you're new here. Welcome to ZoS.

Not really. Count the stars.

Stars mean little.

I was sarcastically referring to the fact that ZOS is notorious for Reddit, Tamriel Foundry, and even private guild event meetings and never bothing to repeat the information covered there here at their official forums.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt2/

As far as Eric is concerned...alternative measures will be put in place to compensate for the Veteran Rank loss...when they finally get removed.

Yeah, we can really believe some vague statement when we can't even believe clear and precise statements that assure everyone they are not wasting their time. Sorry but that doesn't fly.

So you can ignore the statement that 30cp is all you will get then ?

Tamriel Foundry is not run by or supported in any way by ZOS. I'm not suggesting that they are dishonest, but why would anyone rely on a third party source instead of the forums that are run by and supported by ZOS?

I see you're new here. Welcome to ZoS.

Not really. Count the stars.

Stars mean little.

I was sarcastically referring to the fact that ZOS is notorious for Reddit, Tamriel Foundry, and even private guild event meetings and never bothing to repeat the information covered there here at their official forums.

I understand. That doesn't make it a good idea. Those things should be aggregating official responses from the official site of the company. Not the other way around.

Grao

Nightreaver wrote: »

One thing I never understood.
How is that the same people that were able to go from level 1 to VR1 in 20 hours take 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14?

Don't listen to @Akhratos, he clearly has no clue what he is talking about.

To level from 1 to 50 you require very little exp (likely less then a million). The content is also extremely easy when compared to what the Veteran areas were upon release.

Keep in mind that all the mobs in the veteran system were heavily nerfed about 4 months ago. On top of that veteran points were removed about a month or two ago being replaced by normal exp. Exp is easier to gain in comparison to veteran points.

Those are the reasons that lead to the delay on reaching vr14. That and the fact those levels weren't released with the game. ESO started with 50 normal levels and 10 veteran ranks.

GunemCleric

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If one champion point is supposed to take you 4 hours to get, and ZOS' current design is for one veteran rank to take you 10 hours, 30 champion points equal 12 veteran ranks. That is only slightly less than current maximum level, and more than Cadwell's silver and gold content was designed for.

So, if you are worried that you did unrepeatable quest content for naught, you are mistaken. You already get more than you earned in silver and gold content.

If you are worried that you aren't adequately compensated for your 8 V14 characters, that is only marginally the case. All of your characters will have access to champion points equivalent to 12 veteran ranks. And until veteran ranks are removed, you will remain more powerful than lower veteran rank characters.

Nobody loses anything.

The only reason I can see people being upset is that any veteran player gets the same points they get, which they supposedly "worked hard for" and others didn't. But that's just petty in my opinion.

I have 2 vr14, one of which has completed 1105 quests and has a "/played" that sums to over 1909+ hours (79 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes,and 33 seconds) the other 594+ hours (24 days,18 hours,18 minutes,and 58 seconds) that means I have averaged 8-10 hours a day since release. It takes *maybe* 40 hours doing all the quests to get to lvl 50, 20 hours if grinding. I personally had a vet since late April.

By your math I should get 500-600 CP.

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

I have 3 accounts, 24 DC characters I planned to level up. I love the game, but now i have to convince myself that I want to actually keep 3 accounts and then I will have to spend the next month in the game GRINDING a character on my other 2 accounts to get at least the 30 CP for them, since it is free points to the players who merely get lvl 50.

Then i have to GRIND the 5 non-vets on my main account to vet so that I can actually be able to gain CP via the exceptionally boring and poorly designed fetch-quests when I finally have the pleasure of being totally screwed with the 1.6 CP system.

My next month in the game with be an excruciating grind in order to position my characters to be able to grind CP in order to stay competitive with people who have far more time on their hands (and for some reason stayed after this debacle)

So please @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or any of you defenders of the ZOS lie, please explain how exactly the CP system is fair. I know for a fact that that there are many other out there that have played more than me.

I have worked very hard to encourage a lot of people in my guild and others to stay subbed. There is nothing I can say to ZOS blatantly lying to player base and punishing loyal players, how do I argue or convince someone to stay after that. If it was not for all my friends and how well my guild is doing I would likely take this as a sign to leave. I think the already laughable 800k player base may decline further after this gets to the vast majority of players who do not read forums.

btw, I have a wife and work more than 40 hours a week (my time is limited and valuable) and highly educated systems engineer (please do not use fallacy, false math, or technology-lacking explanations)

the cp system is as fair as rewarding you twice for running content once prior to 1.6 , while only rewarding those who run that same content after 1.6 one time . as that is exactly what you are asking for , the only thing that makes what your asking for even remotely valid is that stupid promise made by ZOS (the 30 points covers them in case of legal actions ) .

I missed something. What are you talking about? I do not think i am asking for extra, but if they replace (keyword replace) the existing system, the it should immediately translate ESPECIALLY since they told us it would. If this phase was simply the 30 CP to kick things off, BUT the next phase, provided us a reasonable, equivalent compensation that correlates to that progression when they remove the VR progression, then fine.

But, to tell us they are changing everything, but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14..." meant they not only lied, but mislead players and misrepresented their intentions. Many would have unsubbed (i know this beyond a doubt, because I pointed out that "statement" when some were trying to decide) others would have stopped questing (i know this beyond a doubt for same reasons).

I am not happy that my game time is going to be equivalent to 20 hours of playtime (1-v1 ~= 20 hours). I am not happy that there is no reasonable way to gain CP on my 2 mains, daily quests are NOT an option, the vast majority of the quests in the game are a yawn fest, daily quests downright suck, only a ZOS or perhaps a sadist would suggest such an asinine solution.

And "rewarding you twice for running content once" what do you mean, you realize that VR is going away? and that those quests cannot, for the vast majority of cases, cannot be redone? So in the next Champion Point phase includes removing all VR progression (about 600 quests worth exp, and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements), but all you get 30 CP, which is what a vr1 gets who may never have even finished the game (but I agree that VR1 should get something)? It would be torture to have to redo those ~600 quests, but now we will *have* to do the ~300 quests on our other characters (or grind 20x hours and all the goodwill that brings) in order to get to the level to do those ~600 quests ( and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements)

As pointed out, more than once, if properly converting progression that rewards for veteran ranks is somehow soooo imbalanced then perhaps ZOS has already made a mistake (sound like the vr system?), whats next? Are we going to get halfway though CP system or say 1000 CP, then ZOS decides we go to a "SP" (Superfun Points) system, , but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP/CP...", but then they give you 24 SP "cause...reasons" and remove the 1000 CP you earned.

DanielMaxwell

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If one champion point is supposed to take you 4 hours to get, and ZOS' current design is for one veteran rank to take you 10 hours, 30 champion points equal 12 veteran ranks. That is only slightly less than current maximum level, and more than Cadwell's silver and gold content was designed for.

So, if you are worried that you did unrepeatable quest content for naught, you are mistaken. You already get more than you earned in silver and gold content.

If you are worried that you aren't adequately compensated for your 8 V14 characters, that is only marginally the case. All of your characters will have access to champion points equivalent to 12 veteran ranks. And until veteran ranks are removed, you will remain more powerful than lower veteran rank characters.

Nobody loses anything.

The only reason I can see people being upset is that any veteran player gets the same points they get, which they supposedly "worked hard for" and others didn't. But that's just petty in my opinion.

I have 2 vr14, one of which has completed 1105 quests and has a "/played" that sums to over 1909+ hours (79 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes,and 33 seconds) the other 594+ hours (24 days,18 hours,18 minutes,and 58 seconds) that means I have averaged 8-10 hours a day since release. It takes *maybe* 40 hours doing all the quests to get to lvl 50, 20 hours if grinding. I personally had a vet since late April.

By your math I should get 500-600 CP.

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

I have 3 accounts, 24 DC characters I planned to level up. I love the game, but now i have to convince myself that I want to actually keep 3 accounts and then I will have to spend the next month in the game GRINDING a character on my other 2 accounts to get at least the 30 CP for them, since it is free points to the players who merely get lvl 50.

Then i have to GRIND the 5 non-vets on my main account to vet so that I can actually be able to gain CP via the exceptionally boring and poorly designed fetch-quests when I finally have the pleasure of being totally screwed with the 1.6 CP system.

My next month in the game with be an excruciating grind in order to position my characters to be able to grind CP in order to stay competitive with people who have far more time on their hands (and for some reason stayed after this debacle)

So please @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or any of you defenders of the ZOS lie, please explain how exactly the CP system is fair. I know for a fact that that there are many other out there that have played more than me.

I have worked very hard to encourage a lot of people in my guild and others to stay subbed. There is nothing I can say to ZOS blatantly lying to player base and punishing loyal players, how do I argue or convince someone to stay after that. If it was not for all my friends and how well my guild is doing I would likely take this as a sign to leave. I think the already laughable 800k player base may decline further after this gets to the vast majority of players who do not read forums.

btw, I have a wife and work more than 40 hours a week (my time is limited and valuable) and highly educated systems engineer (please do not use fallacy, false math, or technology-lacking explanations)

the cp system is as fair as rewarding you twice for running content once prior to 1.6 , while only rewarding those who run that same content after 1.6 one time . as that is exactly what you are asking for , the only thing that makes what your asking for even remotely valid is that stupid promise made by ZOS (the 30 points covers them in case of legal actions ) .

I missed something. What are you talking about? I do not think i am asking for extra, but if they replace (keyword replace) the existing system, the it should immediately translate ESPECIALLY since they told us it would. If this phase was simply the 30 CP to kick things off, BUT the next phase, provided us a reasonable, equivalent compensation that correlates to that progression when they remove the VR progression, then fine.

But, to tell us they are changing everything, but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14..." meant they not only lied, but mislead players and misrepresented their intentions. Many would have unsubbed (i know this beyond a doubt, because I pointed out that "statement" when some were trying to decide) others would have stopped questing (i know this beyond a doubt for same reasons).

I am not happy that my game time is going to be equivalent to 20 hours of playtime (1-v1 ~= 20 hours). I am not happy that there is no reasonable way to gain CP on my 2 mains, daily quests are NOT an option, the vast majority of the quests in the game are a yawn fest, daily quests downright suck, only a ZOS or perhaps a sadist would suggest such an asinine solution.

And "rewarding you twice for running content once" what do you mean, you realize that VR is going away? and that those quests cannot, for the vast majority of cases, cannot be redone? So in the next Champion Point phase includes removing all VR progression (about 600 quests worth exp, and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements), but all you get 30 CP, which is what a vr1 gets who may never have even finished the game (but I agree that VR1 should get something)? It would be torture to have to redo those ~600 quests, but now we will *have* to do the ~300 quests on our other characters (or grind 20x hours and all the goodwill that brings) in order to get to the level to do those ~600 quests ( and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements)

As pointed out, more than once, if properly converting progression that rewards for veteran ranks is somehow soooo imbalanced then perhaps ZOS has already made a mistake (sound like the vr system?), whats next? Are we going to get halfway though CP system or say 1000 CP, then ZOS decides we go to a "SP" (Superfun Points) system, , but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP/CP...", but then they give you 24 SP "cause...reasons" and remove the 1000 CP you earned.

When ZOS made that (very stupid) promise they also added the caveat that there would be a cap that was yet to be determined .
You choose to consume all of that non repeatable content with out knowing what the cap would be , and now your asking for more rewards from that already completed content . That leads to the rewarding twice for running content once comment .

Hope that clears it up for you

GunemCleric

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If one champion point is supposed to take you 4 hours to get, and ZOS' current design is for one veteran rank to take you 10 hours, 30 champion points equal 12 veteran ranks. That is only slightly less than current maximum level, and more than Cadwell's silver and gold content was designed for.

So, if you are worried that you did unrepeatable quest content for naught, you are mistaken. You already get more than you earned in silver and gold content.

If you are worried that you aren't adequately compensated for your 8 V14 characters, that is only marginally the case. All of your characters will have access to champion points equivalent to 12 veteran ranks. And until veteran ranks are removed, you will remain more powerful than lower veteran rank characters.

Nobody loses anything.

The only reason I can see people being upset is that any veteran player gets the same points they get, which they supposedly "worked hard for" and others didn't. But that's just petty in my opinion.

I have 2 vr14, one of which has completed 1105 quests and has a "/played" that sums to over 1909+ hours (79 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes,and 33 seconds) the other 594+ hours (24 days,18 hours,18 minutes,and 58 seconds) that means I have averaged 8-10 hours a day since release. It takes *maybe* 40 hours doing all the quests to get to lvl 50, 20 hours if grinding. I personally had a vet since late April.

By your math I should get 500-600 CP.

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

I have 3 accounts, 24 DC characters I planned to level up. I love the game, but now i have to convince myself that I want to actually keep 3 accounts and then I will have to spend the next month in the game GRINDING a character on my other 2 accounts to get at least the 30 CP for them, since it is free points to the players who merely get lvl 50.

Then i have to GRIND the 5 non-vets on my main account to vet so that I can actually be able to gain CP via the exceptionally boring and poorly designed fetch-quests when I finally have the pleasure of being totally screwed with the 1.6 CP system.

My next month in the game with be an excruciating grind in order to position my characters to be able to grind CP in order to stay competitive with people who have far more time on their hands (and for some reason stayed after this debacle)

So please @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or any of you defenders of the ZOS lie, please explain how exactly the CP system is fair. I know for a fact that that there are many other out there that have played more than me.

I have worked very hard to encourage a lot of people in my guild and others to stay subbed. There is nothing I can say to ZOS blatantly lying to player base and punishing loyal players, how do I argue or convince someone to stay after that. If it was not for all my friends and how well my guild is doing I would likely take this as a sign to leave. I think the already laughable 800k player base may decline further after this gets to the vast majority of players who do not read forums.

btw, I have a wife and work more than 40 hours a week (my time is limited and valuable) and highly educated systems engineer (please do not use fallacy, false math, or technology-lacking explanations)

the cp system is as fair as rewarding you twice for running content once prior to 1.6 , while only rewarding those who run that same content after 1.6 one time . as that is exactly what you are asking for , the only thing that makes what your asking for even remotely valid is that stupid promise made by ZOS (the 30 points covers them in case of legal actions ) .

I missed something. What are you talking about? I do not think i am asking for extra, but if they replace (keyword replace) the existing system, the it should immediately translate ESPECIALLY since they told us it would. If this phase was simply the 30 CP to kick things off, BUT the next phase, provided us a reasonable, equivalent compensation that correlates to that progression when they remove the VR progression, then fine.

But, to tell us they are changing everything, but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14..." meant they not only lied, but mislead players and misrepresented their intentions. Many would have unsubbed (i know this beyond a doubt, because I pointed out that "statement" when some were trying to decide) others would have stopped questing (i know this beyond a doubt for same reasons).

I am not happy that my game time is going to be equivalent to 20 hours of playtime (1-v1 ~= 20 hours). I am not happy that there is no reasonable way to gain CP on my 2 mains, daily quests are NOT an option, the vast majority of the quests in the game are a yawn fest, daily quests downright suck, only a ZOS or perhaps a sadist would suggest such an asinine solution.

And "rewarding you twice for running content once" what do you mean, you realize that VR is going away? and that those quests cannot, for the vast majority of cases, cannot be redone? So in the next Champion Point phase includes removing all VR progression (about 600 quests worth exp, and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements), but all you get 30 CP, which is what a vr1 gets who may never have even finished the game (but I agree that VR1 should get something)? It would be torture to have to redo those ~600 quests, but now we will *have* to do the ~300 quests on our other characters (or grind 20x hours and all the goodwill that brings) in order to get to the level to do those ~600 quests ( and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements)

As pointed out, more than once, if properly converting progression that rewards for veteran ranks is somehow soooo imbalanced then perhaps ZOS has already made a mistake (sound like the vr system?), whats next? Are we going to get halfway though CP system or say 1000 CP, then ZOS decides we go to a "SP" (Superfun Points) system, , but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP/CP...", but then they give you 24 SP "cause...reasons" and remove the 1000 CP you earned.

When ZOS made that (very stupid) promise they also added the caveat that there would be a cap that was yet to be determined .
You choose to consume all of that non repeatable content with out knowing what the cap would be , and now your asking for more rewards from that already completed content . That leads to the rewarding twice for running content once comment .

Hope that clears it up for you

Stop trolling and try reading the thread. I had 1000+ on one character done But ZOS said "we are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14..."which clearly says I could and should continue playing without concern, which influenced my decision not to worry about it as well as many others. In addition, I pointed that quote/statement out to players who were uncertain because ZOS clearly stated they would compensate play time through and past v14 to a cap, which was a known caveat.

The CP cap is clearly indicated to be at or beyond v14, but the 30 CP as presented is implying that the decided-upon cap is vr1, extrapolating the logic as stated. I am not vr1 and no amount of fallacious logic is going to convince me they cannot calculate the amount of XP required to get to v14, because the numbers are visible in the player UI and they HAVE to keep up with that otherwise how would they know what level anyone is? Either way ZOS lied, that lie influenced their players (read customers) to make decisions that impacted all future play.

Now the fact that I looked like an ass because I influenced some to stay and play normally using that statement as proof is my fault, in retrospect I should have realized that ZOS had begun to show tendency to be dishonest, but it did not occur to me that a company that seemed to desire success would blatantly lie to their most loyal and senor players and attempt to cause a mass unsub.

Now once again, i am not asking for extra, i am asking for the earned progression and play time to be properly observed and converted. 30 CP for a vr1 sounds fine for vr1 as that is rewarding those who stuck through the crap. But to give 30 CP to an account with *1* vr1 (i.e. min 20 hours) AND then to give same 30 CP to an account with multiple vr14s where a few of us have completed a vast majority of the achievements and almost all of the quests is not fine.

And I think you need to re-read the part about reward twice to yourself several times then read the thread again and consider the R E M O V A L (removal, as in being taken away) of the vet ranks and then ask yourself "self? what is being put in place for all of the time I spent playing?" and it should occur to you at some point in that dialog that you would be getting precisely NOTHING for a lot of play time.

Let me know if that clears things up or I will happily continue to explain it, i do not mind feeding trolls if it means we may hit upon an explanation that ZOS may understand.

If you think 30 CP is fine or somehow doubling the reward, then I would say you should play how you want, go ahead and get to vr1 (you do not seem to be there yet) and move on to v14 and do all ~600 quests (and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements), cause you will be rewarded with 30cp regardless, and go respond to threads that you actually have a stake in.

ZOS almost never seems to reply to these threads anyway, this is where contentious topics go to die and be hidden from the majoity of the player base.I suggest posting both here and forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144241/what-happened-to-we-will-track-your-exp-earned-gina-bruno-answered-this-12-28-2014#latest to maximize player exposure.

DanielMaxwell

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If one champion point is supposed to take you 4 hours to get, and ZOS' current design is for one veteran rank to take you 10 hours, 30 champion points equal 12 veteran ranks. That is only slightly less than current maximum level, and more than Cadwell's silver and gold content was designed for.

So, if you are worried that you did unrepeatable quest content for naught, you are mistaken. You already get more than you earned in silver and gold content.

If you are worried that you aren't adequately compensated for your 8 V14 characters, that is only marginally the case. All of your characters will have access to champion points equivalent to 12 veteran ranks. And until veteran ranks are removed, you will remain more powerful than lower veteran rank characters.

Nobody loses anything.

The only reason I can see people being upset is that any veteran player gets the same points they get, which they supposedly "worked hard for" and others didn't. But that's just petty in my opinion.

I have 2 vr14, one of which has completed 1105 quests and has a "/played" that sums to over 1909+ hours (79 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes,and 33 seconds) the other 594+ hours (24 days,18 hours,18 minutes,and 58 seconds) that means I have averaged 8-10 hours a day since release. It takes *maybe* 40 hours doing all the quests to get to lvl 50, 20 hours if grinding. I personally had a vet since late April.

By your math I should get 500-600 CP.

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

I have 3 accounts, 24 DC characters I planned to level up. I love the game, but now i have to convince myself that I want to actually keep 3 accounts and then I will have to spend the next month in the game GRINDING a character on my other 2 accounts to get at least the 30 CP for them, since it is free points to the players who merely get lvl 50.

Then i have to GRIND the 5 non-vets on my main account to vet so that I can actually be able to gain CP via the exceptionally boring and poorly designed fetch-quests when I finally have the pleasure of being totally screwed with the 1.6 CP system.

My next month in the game with be an excruciating grind in order to position my characters to be able to grind CP in order to stay competitive with people who have far more time on their hands (and for some reason stayed after this debacle)

So please @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or any of you defenders of the ZOS lie, please explain how exactly the CP system is fair. I know for a fact that that there are many other out there that have played more than me.

I have worked very hard to encourage a lot of people in my guild and others to stay subbed. There is nothing I can say to ZOS blatantly lying to player base and punishing loyal players, how do I argue or convince someone to stay after that. If it was not for all my friends and how well my guild is doing I would likely take this as a sign to leave. I think the already laughable 800k player base may decline further after this gets to the vast majority of players who do not read forums.

btw, I have a wife and work more than 40 hours a week (my time is limited and valuable) and highly educated systems engineer (please do not use fallacy, false math, or technology-lacking explanations)

the cp system is as fair as rewarding you twice for running content once prior to 1.6 , while only rewarding those who run that same content after 1.6 one time . as that is exactly what you are asking for , the only thing that makes what your asking for even remotely valid is that stupid promise made by ZOS (the 30 points covers them in case of legal actions ) .

I missed something. What are you talking about? I do not think i am asking for extra, but if they replace (keyword replace) the existing system, the it should immediately translate ESPECIALLY since they told us it would. If this phase was simply the 30 CP to kick things off, BUT the next phase, provided us a reasonable, equivalent compensation that correlates to that progression when they remove the VR progression, then fine.

But, to tell us they are changing everything, but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14..." meant they not only lied, but mislead players and misrepresented their intentions. Many would have unsubbed (i know this beyond a doubt, because I pointed out that "statement" when some were trying to decide) others would have stopped questing (i know this beyond a doubt for same reasons).

I am not happy that my game time is going to be equivalent to 20 hours of playtime (1-v1 ~= 20 hours). I am not happy that there is no reasonable way to gain CP on my 2 mains, daily quests are NOT an option, the vast majority of the quests in the game are a yawn fest, daily quests downright suck, only a ZOS or perhaps a sadist would suggest such an asinine solution.

And "rewarding you twice for running content once" what do you mean, you realize that VR is going away? and that those quests cannot, for the vast majority of cases, cannot be redone? So in the next Champion Point phase includes removing all VR progression (about 600 quests worth exp, and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements), but all you get 30 CP, which is what a vr1 gets who may never have even finished the game (but I agree that VR1 should get something)? It would be torture to have to redo those ~600 quests, but now we will *have* to do the ~300 quests on our other characters (or grind 20x hours and all the goodwill that brings) in order to get to the level to do those ~600 quests ( and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements)

As pointed out, more than once, if properly converting progression that rewards for veteran ranks is somehow soooo imbalanced then perhaps ZOS has already made a mistake (sound like the vr system?), whats next? Are we going to get halfway though CP system or say 1000 CP, then ZOS decides we go to a "SP" (Superfun Points) system, , but "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP/CP...", but then they give you 24 SP "cause...reasons" and remove the 1000 CP you earned.

When ZOS made that (very stupid) promise they also added the caveat that there would be a cap that was yet to be determined .
You choose to consume all of that non repeatable content with out knowing what the cap would be , and now your asking for more rewards from that already completed content . That leads to the rewarding twice for running content once comment .

Hope that clears it up for you

Stop trolling and try reading the thread. I had 1000+ on one character done But ZOS said "we are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14..."which clearly says I could and should continue playing without concern, which influenced my decision not to worry about it as well as many others. In addition, I pointed that quote/statement out to players who were uncertain because ZOS clearly stated they would compensate play time through and past v14 to a cap, which was a known caveat.

The CP cap is clearly indicated to be at or beyond v14, but the 30 CP as presented is implying that the decided-upon cap is vr1, extrapolating the logic as stated. I am not vr1 and no amount of fallacious logic is going to convince me they cannot calculate the amount of XP required to get to v14, because the numbers are visible in the player UI and they HAVE to keep up with that otherwise how would they know what level anyone is? Either way ZOS lied, that lie influenced their players (read customers) to make decisions that impacted all future play.

Now the fact that I looked like an ass because I influenced some to stay and play normally using that statement as proof is my fault, in retrospect I should have realized that ZOS had begun to show tendency to be dishonest, but it did not occur to me that a company that seemed to desire success would blatantly lie to their most loyal and senor players and attempt to cause a mass unsub.

Now once again, i am not asking for extra, i am asking for the earned progression and play time to be properly observed and converted. 30 CP for a vr1 sounds fine for vr1 as that is rewarding those who stuck through the crap. But to give 30 CP to an account with *1* vr1 (i.e. min 20 hours) AND then to give same 30 CP to an account with multiple vr14s where a few of us have completed a vast majority of the achievements and almost all of the quests is not fine.

And I think you need to re-read the part about reward twice to yourself several times then read the thread again and consider the R E M O V A L (removal, as in being taken away) of the vet ranks and then ask yourself "self? what is being put in place for all of the time I spent playing?" and it should occur to you at some point in that dialog that you would be getting precisely NOTHING for a lot of play time.

Let me know if that clears things up or I will happily continue to explain it, i do not mind feeding trolls if it means we may hit upon an explanation that ZOS may understand.

If you think 30 CP is fine or somehow doubling the reward, then I would say you should play how you want, go ahead and get to vr1 (you do not seem to be there yet) and move on to v14 and do all ~600 quests (and the dolmens, delves, public dungeons, world bosses, exploration, achievements), cause you will be rewarded with 30cp regardless, and go respond to threads that you actually have a stake in.

ZOS almost never seems to reply to these threads anyway, this is where contentious topics go to die and be hidden from the majoity of the player base.I suggest posting both here and forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144241/what-happened-to-we-will-track-your-exp-earned-gina-bruno-answered-this-12-28-2014#latest to maximize player exposure.

you are not reading her entire answer , plus you are ignoring that they had to make changes to the system after that promise was made , changes which where very poorly communicated to the player base .

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1303290/#Comment_1303290

you received your first reward for that content with any and all Veteran Ranks you achieved .
ZOS then made a bad promise that was made worse by bad communications from ZOS.
ZOS set a low cap and decided that every VR1 has meet that cap.
You are now asking for more CP(reward) on that same content , that is you asking to be rewarded twice for running the content once .

as for you looking bad , that is your problem as nothing I say can change how people who I do not know view you , when they happen to be people who know you .

So they are removing a broken system , you received what ever benefits for what ever veteran rank that you achieved while that system is in place .benefits that anyone who did not progress as far as you , did not have during the life span of the veteran ranks system.

Kaliki

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

you received your first reward for that content with any and all Veteran Ranks you achieved .
ZOS then made a bad promise that was made worse by bad communications from ZOS.
ZOS set a low cap and decided that every VR1 has meet that cap.
You are now asking for more CP(reward) on that same content , that is you asking to be rewarded twice for running the content once .

as for you looking bad , that is your problem as nothing I say can change how people who I do not know view you , when they happen to be people who know you .

So they are removing a broken system , you received what ever benefits for what ever veteran rank that you achieved while that system is in place .benefits that anyone who did not progress as far as you did not have during the life span of the veteran ranks system.

1) Giving 30 CPs to anyone VR1+ is not a cap.
2) There is no double reward. The way the system seems to get implemented it means VR14s will be required double the effort. First we progressed in the champion system, then it gets deleted (=reward gone). Now we have to start anew in another system and progress again.
3) What would you say if you were reset to level 1. Now you will be required to level again from level 2a to level 50a. Fair according to your logic? After all you had all the benefits while original levels 1-50 were in place.
As you have done all qs and exploring you are left with PVP and crafting writs to level up again. Fun, right?

EQBallzz

Kaliki wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

you received your first reward for that content with any and all Veteran Ranks you achieved .
ZOS then made a bad promise that was made worse by bad communications from ZOS.
ZOS set a low cap and decided that every VR1 has meet that cap.
You are now asking for more CP(reward) on that same content , that is you asking to be rewarded twice for running the content once .

as for you looking bad , that is your problem as nothing I say can change how people who I do not know view you , when they happen to be people who know you .

So they are removing a broken system , you received what ever benefits for what ever veteran rank that you achieved while that system is in place .benefits that anyone who did not progress as far as you did not have during the life span of the veteran ranks system.

1) Giving 30 CPs to anyone VR1+ is not a cap.
2) There is no double reward. The way the system seems to get implemented it means VR14s will be required double the effort. First we progressed in the champion system, then it gets deleted (=reward gone). Now we have to start anew in another system and progress again.
3) What would you say if you were reset to level 1. Now you will be required to level again from level 2a to level 50a. Fair according to your logic? After all you had all the benefits while original levels 1-50 were in place.
As you have done all qs and exploring you are left with PVP and crafting writs to level up again. Fun, right?

Agree completely. In fact, if they are going to do this plan they *should* just reset everyone to 1 and wipe the slate clean. That way everyone feels the same pain of having to start over instead of some people getting reset while others get a bonus for doing nothing.

Anex

Wait, so I'm basically going to be screwed over when this comes out because I worked my butt off and did ALL the quests (well nearly all, I'm almost done) going for Master Adventurer? This doesn't sit well. We were told we would be back-credited.

At first I thought people were overreacting and misunderstanding, but now I'm genuinely worried.

Grao

Anex wrote: »

Wait, so I'm basically going to be screwed over when this comes out because I worked my butt off and did ALL the quests (well nearly all, I'm almost done) going for Master Adventurer? This doesn't sit well. We were told we would be back-credited.

At first I thought people were overreacting and misunderstanding, but now I'm genuinely worried.

Welcome to Resistance comrade!

Help us fight ZoS injustice! Help us keep safe our exp points They want to swipe away and erase! We will not give in to promises of coming rewards! We shall not believe more empty promises!

badmojo0777b14_ESO

i can get over the "recorded xp" promise, I understand awarding to many points can hurt the system, but rolling back a 6 month v14 to the same point as brand new VR1 is COMPLETE HORSE CRAP. if ZOS initially intended to give 30 points to VR14s, cool, but what DIMWHIT decided hey! lets give all VR toons 30 points!, they'll love that!..uh NO, I will not be rolled back to the same point as a brand new vr1,with zero compensation for my MANY hours of further progression that cannot be replaced. if ZOS originally intended on giving 30 points to VR14s, and less to those characters of lower level they should go back to that, its not like they have a problem going back on their word, OBVIOUSLY.

Grao

Please read the following post and give your suggestions or your own take on the subject.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144734/experience-tracking-and-the-champion-system-implementation?new=1

Keep it constructive please.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »

i can get over the "recorded xp" promise, I understand awarding to many points can hurt the system, but rolling back a 6 month v14 to the same point as brand new VR1 is COMPLETE HORSE CRAP. if ZOS initially intended to give 30 points to VR14s, cool, but what DIMWHIT decided hey! lets give all VR toons 30 points!, they'll love that!..uh NO, I will not be rolled back to the same point as a brand new vr1,with zero compensation for my MANY hours of further progression that cannot be replaced. if ZOS originally intended on giving 30 points to VR14s, and less to those characters of lower level they should go back to that, its not like they have a problem going back on their word, OBVIOUSLY.

in some respects, giving CPs to all VR1+ does have its merits- its not a lot, it gives more exposure to a system to ensure it actually works (yes we are th paying testers for the CS), its one time only so it would be a decent morale booster for active players. why thirty? i may have misunderstood it, but it sounds like there are 3 trees to spend them in so thats 10 points per tree.

i can't justify giving the same to vr1-14 though

MornaBaine

"The system shouldn’t separate players more.

This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic."

So does this mean you feel that Vet 1 characters should be closer in power and abilities to Vet 14 characters? Is there too much of a disparity between the upper and lower Vet ranks that the Champion System means to address?

Akhratos

Grao wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

One thing I never understood.
How is that the same people that were able to go from level 1 to VR1 in 20 hours take 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14?

Don't listen to @Akhratos, he clearly has no clue what he is talking about.

To level from 1 to 50 you require very little exp (likely less then a million). The content is also extremely easy when compared to what the Veteran areas were upon release.

Keep in mind that all the mobs in the veteran system were heavily nerfed about 4 months ago. On top of that veteran points were removed about a month or two ago being replaced by normal exp. Exp is easier to gain in comparison to veteran points.

Those are the reasons that lead to the delay on reaching vr14. That and the fact those levels weren't released with the game. ESO started with 50 normal levels and 10 veteran ranks.

I dont see how VR content becoming easier after release has something to do with what I said but I might have some clue after reaching VR14 in three characters doing Silver/Gold in everyone of them, but... I dont have it you say?

Butthurt much you were unable to complete content without the 25th nerf to it? Deal with it. Many other people did the veteran alliances and it was not 8 months to do it.

Jeeez, 8 months to get to VR14? Thats about the time the game has been out. Go and create the veteran butthurt guild if you need that much time to complete Caldwells.

Grao

MornaBaine wrote: »

"The system shouldn’t separate players more.

This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic."

So does this mean you feel that Vet 1 characters should be closer in power and abilities to Vet 14 characters? Is there too much of a disparity between the upper and lower Vet ranks that the Champion System means to address?

Keep in mind the veteran system won't be removed on 1.6. The power of that progression + the full progression in the Champion System would double the power distance between levels. I believe that is why they said the disparity would be too great.

My hope is that ZoS will review our posts and release a statement concerning update 1.7 when the Veteran System will retired completely. It is then that experience points should truly be converted into Champion Points. Read the post on my signature for more.

Grao

Akhratos wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

One thing I never understood.
How is that the same people that were able to go from level 1 to VR1 in 20 hours take 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14?

Don't listen to @Akhratos, he clearly has no clue what he is talking about.

To level from 1 to 50 you require very little exp (likely less then a million). The content is also extremely easy when compared to what the Veteran areas were upon release.

Keep in mind that all the mobs in the veteran system were heavily nerfed about 4 months ago. On top of that veteran points were removed about a month or two ago being replaced by normal exp. Exp is easier to gain in comparison to veteran points.

Those are the reasons that lead to the delay on reaching vr14. That and the fact those levels weren't released with the game. ESO started with 50 normal levels and 10 veteran ranks.

I dont see how VR content becoming easier after release has something to do with what I said but I might have some clue after reaching VR14 in three characters doing Silver/Gold in everyone of them, but... I dont have it you say?

Butthurt much you were unable to complete content without the 25th nerf to it? Deal with it. Many other people did the veteran alliances and it was not 8 months to do it.

Jeeez, 8 months to get to VR14? Thats about the time the game has been out. Go and create the veteran butthurt guild if you need that much time to complete Caldwells.

Actually. I completed all content available reasonably fast. I am sorry I was a bit brusk when addressing you, I was clearly upset. Now that I am calmer, I can answer you again, people took longer to complete the veteran content simply because it is much harder and longer then the pre 50 content.

THe Veteran Content was made easier, but it is still longer then pre-50's content. That should be easy to understand cause while pre-50s happen in one area, veteran ranks happen across 3 areas. ^^

Again, I am sorry if I was rude on my previous post to you.

Nightreaver

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

Grao

Nightreaver wrote: »

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

I definitely agree. The champion system is designed to deal with Experience converted to Champion Points, not time played. Time played counts the random time you afked in the city, the time you were just walking around talking to people on TS, lots of other things that don't lead to the growth of your character. Even Crafting... I mean, time spent crafting never increased your character's power, just increases your expertise on crafting and none of that is likely to be lost.

Akhratos

Nightreaver wrote: »

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

I really think both your figures, 20-40 hours for level50 and 2400 hours for VR1-14 are out of reality. At least for what I experienced. Are you aware 2400 hours is like 100 days of real-time played? If you play 8 hours a day, you are saying that it would have taken 300 days (like 10 months) to make it from VR1 to VR14.

I am sorry but thats just out of fantasy.

I agree with you though, and that was my main point, that VR zones were easier for me (faster horse, better knowledge of class, mechanics, builds) than normal one. I soloed every Dolmen and WorldBoss wich I could not do during the 1-50 travel.

Craglorn aside, I experienced that completing each of Silver/Gold alliance took me shorter than the first one, but thats only me. Of course, it didnt take me that much but about 6-8 hours per zone in Silver/Gold.

GunemCleric

Akhratos wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

I really think both your figures, 20-40 hours for level50 and 2400 hours for VR1-14 are out of reality. At least for what I experienced. Are you aware 2400 hours is like 100 days of real-time played? If you play 8 hours a day, you are saying that it would have taken 300 days (like 10 months) to make it from VR1 to VR14.

I am sorry but thats just out of fantasy.

I agree with you though, and that was my main point, that VR zones were easier for me (faster horse, better knowledge of class, mechanics, builds) than normal one. I soloed every Dolmen and WorldBoss wich I could not do during the 1-50 travel.

Craglorn aside, I experienced that completing each of Silver/Gold alliance took me shorter than the first one, but thats only me. Of course, it didnt take me that much but about 6-8 hours per zone in Silver/Gold.

I really do not care what you think as I know for a fact you can get to 50 in ~20 hours as I know 2 people who have done it and will have have done it on one character by Sunday as additional proof (i do not trust ZOS to do anything right anymore so i will position my remaining toons at vr1 to prepare to do the quests). I tried power questing and someone grinding at same time in our guild caught me and my partner at level 20 in half the time, or about 6 hours. I switched to grinding with a partner and 10 hours later lvl 40, another and another ~5 hours I have no doubt i will be at level 50. I will miss the 20 hour mark by a few hours, but then i have been harvesting Alchemy ingredients and selling the drops.

And i never said it took 2400 hours to get to v14, what I said is that I personally have 2400 hours between 2 v14 characters alone, i was v14 on one char 2 days after v14 was added, i had already done 1000 quests at that point and did grind from v12 to v14 as i did not want to spend next 3 weeks trying to organize a group between guild activities just to do the few hours worth of quests in upper crag that probably would not have gotten me to v14 anyway.

Since then I have not played less or slower, which is to say if we go by amount of incidental XP since the ZOS promise, then... If we go by quest completion, then again ... I seriously doubt I am unique and i know of several others who have continued to play and chase achievements and almost certainly gained large amounts of XP just playing whether vet dungeons, lighting camp fires, PvP, or daily quests AND have also already done nearly all the quests possible in the game.

I suggest everyone level their alts to vet 1 as soon as possible, as if the CP points are sooooooo powerful that ZOS cannot actually convert appropriately, yet at the same time they are sooooooo easy to get, it means if you cannot or do not take the time to quest for as many CP points as possible then you will be quickly out classed by those people who do (yet another glaring fallacy in the CP progression system).

Grao

GunemCleric wrote: »

Akhratos wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

I really think both your figures, 20-40 hours for level50 and 2400 hours for VR1-14 are out of reality. At least for what I experienced. Are you aware 2400 hours is like 100 days of real-time played? If you play 8 hours a day, you are saying that it would have taken 300 days (like 10 months) to make it from VR1 to VR14.

I am sorry but thats just out of fantasy.

I agree with you though, and that was my main point, that VR zones were easier for me (faster horse, better knowledge of class, mechanics, builds) than normal one. I soloed every Dolmen and WorldBoss wich I could not do during the 1-50 travel.

Craglorn aside, I experienced that completing each of Silver/Gold alliance took me shorter than the first one, but thats only me. Of course, it didnt take me that much but about 6-8 hours per zone in Silver/Gold.

I really do not care what you think as I know for a fact you can get to 50 in ~20 hours as I know 2 people who have done it and will have have done it on one character by Sunday as additional proof (i do not trust ZOS to do anything right anymore so i will position my remaining toons at vr1 to prepare to do the quests). I tried power questing and someone grinding at same time in our guild caught me and my partner at level 20 in half the time, or about 6 hours. I switched to grinding with a partner and 10 hours later lvl 40, another and another ~5 hours I have no doubt i will be at level 50. I will miss the 20 hour mark by a few hours, but then i have been harvesting Alchemy ingredients and selling the drops.

And i never said it took 2400 hours to get to v14, what I said is that I personally have 2400 hours between 2 v14 characters alone, i was v14 on one char 2 days after v14 was added, i had already done 1000 quests at that point and did grind from v12 to v14 as i did not want to spend next 3 weeks trying to organize a group between guild activities just to do the few hours worth of quests in upper crag that probably would not have gotten me to v14 anyway.

Since then I have not played less or slower, which is to say if we go by amount of incidental XP since the ZOS promise, then... If we go by quest completion, then again ... I seriously doubt I am unique and i know of several others who have continued to play and chase achievements and almost certainly gained large amounts of XP just playing whether vet dungeons, lighting camp fires, PvP, or daily quests AND have also already done nearly all the quests possible in the game.

I suggest everyone level their alts to vet 1 as soon as possible, as if the CP points are sooooooo powerful that ZOS cannot actually convert appropriately, yet at the same time they are sooooooo easy to get, it means if you cannot or do not take the time to quest for as many CP points as possible then you will be quickly out classed by those people who do (yet another glaring fallacy in the CP progression system).

My question is, did you have fun power grinding? I will soon be making an alt because I want to try my hand at being a DragonKnight, I did ever since the release and only chose Sorcerer as my main because I traditionally choose Druids or Wizards as my mains.

The only reason I haven't already created this alt is because I am dreading the prospect of leveling all over again. While I had a lot of fun with Sorc, I've completed all the quest and I have a descent memory so there will be no more surprises, no more truly magical moments. So instead I will be leveling by grinding and will only complete the main quest line so I am able to progress to locked areas.

Do I think it is bad that grinding allows you to level faster? Not at all... It is a choice, grinding is boring and fast, the quests are interesting, but time consuming. You can choose your own experience, what difference does it make if your neighbor decided to level by grinding and got to late game faster? If you decided to level questing and had fun doing then you won your own way.


Also, you probably didn't read the posts before this, or even ZoS post. The reason they can't give us all the champion points we've won thus far is that the Champion Points + Veteran progression would cause the power difference between levels too great. That doesn't mean Champion Points without the Veteran Ranks (Likely update 1.7) will be that over powered.

GunemCleric

Grao wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Akhratos wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

I really think both your figures, 20-40 hours for level50 and 2400 hours for VR1-14 are out of reality. At least for what I experienced. Are you aware 2400 hours is like 100 days of real-time played? If you play 8 hours a day, you are saying that it would have taken 300 days (like 10 months) to make it from VR1 to VR14.

I am sorry but thats just out of fantasy.

I agree with you though, and that was my main point, that VR zones were easier for me (faster horse, better knowledge of class, mechanics, builds) than normal one. I soloed every Dolmen and WorldBoss wich I could not do during the 1-50 travel.

Craglorn aside, I experienced that completing each of Silver/Gold alliance took me shorter than the first one, but thats only me. Of course, it didnt take me that much but about 6-8 hours per zone in Silver/Gold.

I really do not care what you think as I know for a fact you can get to 50 in ~20 hours as I know 2 people who have done it and will have have done it on one character by Sunday as additional proof (i do not trust ZOS to do anything right anymore so i will position my remaining toons at vr1 to prepare to do the quests). I tried power questing and someone grinding at same time in our guild caught me and my partner at level 20 in half the time, or about 6 hours. I switched to grinding with a partner and 10 hours later lvl 40, another and another ~5 hours I have no doubt i will be at level 50. I will miss the 20 hour mark by a few hours, but then i have been harvesting Alchemy ingredients and selling the drops.

And i never said it took 2400 hours to get to v14, what I said is that I personally have 2400 hours between 2 v14 characters alone, i was v14 on one char 2 days after v14 was added, i had already done 1000 quests at that point and did grind from v12 to v14 as i did not want to spend next 3 weeks trying to organize a group between guild activities just to do the few hours worth of quests in upper crag that probably would not have gotten me to v14 anyway.

Since then I have not played less or slower, which is to say if we go by amount of incidental XP since the ZOS promise, then... If we go by quest completion, then again ... I seriously doubt I am unique and i know of several others who have continued to play and chase achievements and almost certainly gained large amounts of XP just playing whether vet dungeons, lighting camp fires, PvP, or daily quests AND have also already done nearly all the quests possible in the game.

I suggest everyone level their alts to vet 1 as soon as possible, as if the CP points are sooooooo powerful that ZOS cannot actually convert appropriately, yet at the same time they are sooooooo easy to get, it means if you cannot or do not take the time to quest for as many CP points as possible then you will be quickly out classed by those people who do (yet another glaring fallacy in the CP progression system).

My question is, did you have fun power grinding? I will soon be making an alt because I want to try my hand at being a DragonKnight, I did ever since the release and only chose Sorcerer as my main because I traditionally choose Druids or Wizards as my mains.

The only reason I haven't already created this alt is because I am deeding the prospect of leveling all over again. While I had a lot of fun with Sorc, I've completed all the quest and I have a descent memory so there will be no more surprises, no more truly magical moments. So instead I will be leveling by grinding and will only complete the main quest line so I am able to progress to locked areas.

Do I think it is bad that grinding allows you to level faster? Not at all... It is a choice, grinding is boring and fast, the quests are interesting, but time consuming. You can choose your own experience, what difference does it make if your neighbor decided to level by grinding and got to late game faster? If you decided to level questing and had fun doing then you won your own way.


Also, you probably didn't read the posts before this, or even ZoS post. The reason they can't give us all the champion points we've won thus far is that the Champion Points + Veteran progression would cause the power difference between levels too great. That doesn't mean Champion Points without the Veteran Ranks (Likely update 1.7) will be that over powered.

Grinding sucks, but is not terrible with a good partner (better XP with 2-person team). It is significantly better than doing the 1-50 quests again. If you do grind I suggest spending some time learning to play a class (not meant to be an insult in any sense) or lean heavy on people who have the experience. If you do not consistently keep the correct skills equipped so that they level with you then will shoot yourself in the foot, for example you need to carefully progress your skills so as to have something that does damage while gaining xp toward morphs on utility skills. For example, I do not use bow (and example everyone would recognize), but if you do and want snipe and to open each skill to snipe you have to be sure to unlock and have each desired skill on your bar while grinding as soon as you open it. It will also help to make some training and exploration gear. You will also eventually want to go back and do the special quests, such as Fighters guild, Mages Guild (grabbing lore books too, but 2 skill points for quest), Undaunted (5 skill points), skyshards (5 skill points), public dungeons (5 skill points), Harborage (skill points, plus required to get into vet zones), and main story (25 skill points), though you only need to pick up main story from coldharbour to get to vet zones.

As far "Champion Points + Veteran progression would cause the power difference" i have been very clear about that, it is the fact that they have said 30 is all we will ever get, read the statements and threads again as if ZOS said we would be properly converted in 1.7 there would be no problem, that have said we are not. We are pushing for them to "clarify" this

Grao

GunemCleric wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Akhratos wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

I really think both your figures, 20-40 hours for level50 and 2400 hours for VR1-14 are out of reality. At least for what I experienced. Are you aware 2400 hours is like 100 days of real-time played? If you play 8 hours a day, you are saying that it would have taken 300 days (like 10 months) to make it from VR1 to VR14.

I am sorry but thats just out of fantasy.

I agree with you though, and that was my main point, that VR zones were easier for me (faster horse, better knowledge of class, mechanics, builds) than normal one. I soloed every Dolmen and WorldBoss wich I could not do during the 1-50 travel.

Craglorn aside, I experienced that completing each of Silver/Gold alliance took me shorter than the first one, but thats only me. Of course, it didnt take me that much but about 6-8 hours per zone in Silver/Gold.

I really do not care what you think as I know for a fact you can get to 50 in ~20 hours as I know 2 people who have done it and will have have done it on one character by Sunday as additional proof (i do not trust ZOS to do anything right anymore so i will position my remaining toons at vr1 to prepare to do the quests). I tried power questing and someone grinding at same time in our guild caught me and my partner at level 20 in half the time, or about 6 hours. I switched to grinding with a partner and 10 hours later lvl 40, another and another ~5 hours I have no doubt i will be at level 50. I will miss the 20 hour mark by a few hours, but then i have been harvesting Alchemy ingredients and selling the drops.

And i never said it took 2400 hours to get to v14, what I said is that I personally have 2400 hours between 2 v14 characters alone, i was v14 on one char 2 days after v14 was added, i had already done 1000 quests at that point and did grind from v12 to v14 as i did not want to spend next 3 weeks trying to organize a group between guild activities just to do the few hours worth of quests in upper crag that probably would not have gotten me to v14 anyway.

Since then I have not played less or slower, which is to say if we go by amount of incidental XP since the ZOS promise, then... If we go by quest completion, then again ... I seriously doubt I am unique and i know of several others who have continued to play and chase achievements and almost certainly gained large amounts of XP just playing whether vet dungeons, lighting camp fires, PvP, or daily quests AND have also already done nearly all the quests possible in the game.

I suggest everyone level their alts to vet 1 as soon as possible, as if the CP points are sooooooo powerful that ZOS cannot actually convert appropriately, yet at the same time they are sooooooo easy to get, it means if you cannot or do not take the time to quest for as many CP points as possible then you will be quickly out classed by those people who do (yet another glaring fallacy in the CP progression system).

My question is, did you have fun power grinding? I will soon be making an alt because I want to try my hand at being a DragonKnight, I did ever since the release and only chose Sorcerer as my main because I traditionally choose Druids or Wizards as my mains.

The only reason I haven't already created this alt is because I am deeding the prospect of leveling all over again. While I had a lot of fun with Sorc, I've completed all the quest and I have a descent memory so there will be no more surprises, no more truly magical moments. So instead I will be leveling by grinding and will only complete the main quest line so I am able to progress to locked areas.

Do I think it is bad that grinding allows you to level faster? Not at all... It is a choice, grinding is boring and fast, the quests are interesting, but time consuming. You can choose your own experience, what difference does it make if your neighbor decided to level by grinding and got to late game faster? If you decided to level questing and had fun doing then you won your own way.


Also, you probably didn't read the posts before this, or even ZoS post. The reason they can't give us all the champion points we've won thus far is that the Champion Points + Veteran progression would cause the power difference between levels too great. That doesn't mean Champion Points without the Veteran Ranks (Likely update 1.7) will be that over powered.

Grinding sucks, but is not terrible with a good partner (better XP with 2-person team). It is significantly better than doing the 1-50 quests again. If you do grind I suggest spending some time learning to play a class (not meant to be an insult in any sense) or lean heavy on people who have the experience. If you do not consistently keep the correct skills equipped so that they level with you then will shoot yourself in the foot, for example you need to carefully progress your skills so as to have something that does damage while gaining xp toward morphs on utility skills. For example, I do not use bow (and example everyone would recognize), but if you do and want snipe and to open each skill to snipe you have to be sure to unlock and have each desired skill on your bar while grinding as soon as you open it. It will also help to make some training and exploration gear. You will also eventually want to go back and do the special quests, such as Fighters guild, Mages Guild (grabbing lore books too, but 2 skill points for quest), Undaunted (5 skill points), skyshards (5 skill points), public dungeons (5 skill points), Harborage (skill points, plus required to get into vet zones), and main story (25 skill points), though you only need to pick up main story from coldharbour to get to vet zones.

As far "Champion Points + Veteran progression would cause the power difference" i have been very clear about that, it is the fact that they have said 30 is all we will ever get, read the statements and threads again as if ZOS said we would be properly converted in 1.7 there would be no problem, that have said we are not. We are pushing for them to "clarify" this

Oh, I plan to level my alt through grinding for the expedience, now that I have experienced the fun of questing; no doubt about that. One of the reasons I think it is great that grinding allows you to level up faster. And as for leveling the right skills, don't worry about that, not making the same mistakes I made with my sorc. I leveled all the way to Molag Bal as Summoner Sorcerer... And my pets got one shot by the God of Schemes... Again... And again... And again... Yeah, it wasn't cool... I had to respec and change weapons just for that fight. >.>

As for the Champion System dilemma... I think Gina was or on a rush or on a bad mood when she wrote down that particular statement. If you read her explanation on this page it is far less evident if she is talking about just update 6 (1.6) or for all coming updates. I don't she'd release a statement about future patches they haven't even started writing, not to mention that these 30 CPs they are giving us now are just a way for ZoS to better study the numbers of the champion system, we all know they don't have many internal testers if any, so they heavily rely on us to do the testing.

Or I am just being optimistic. that is possible too. I like this game and I don't want to see it sinking or going F2P >.>

Akhratos

GunemCleric wrote: »

Akhratos wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

@Akhratos
When I made the comment about people taking 8 months to go from VR1 to VR14 it was more in response to comments like

I ask you or anyone to explain to me how it is remotely fair that a vr1 after 20-40 hours of play should receive the same amount of CP as I will after 50-100x (2400 hours) the play time.

My issue is that anyone that was able to go from level 1 to level 50 in 20-40 hours should have no problem going from VR1 to Vr14 in 40-80 hours, not 2400 hours. Your only completing two additional Alliance zones vs. the one you just completed with roughly the same number of quests and objectives in each.

I completed them before the nerfs and in many cases actually found VR levels easier and faster to compete since I had a faster horse, much better gear, many more abilities and was much more familiar with how to play the class.

Though I agree with what you said (but including Crafting as well)

@Akhratos
Maybe because they started playing less and less the content to get to VR14, decided to pvp, roam around, achievement hunting...

I also feel the same could be said of anyone playing from level 1 to 14.

So if someone is comparing a VR14 to VR1 then I personally feel that an award based on the exp that is required to go from VR1 to VR14 would be more in line than one based on total time played as a VR 14 without any consideration of total time played by a VR1.

I really think both your figures, 20-40 hours for level50 and 2400 hours for VR1-14 are out of reality. At least for what I experienced. Are you aware 2400 hours is like 100 days of real-time played? If you play 8 hours a day, you are saying that it would have taken 300 days (like 10 months) to make it from VR1 to VR14.

I am sorry but thats just out of fantasy.

I agree with you though, and that was my main point, that VR zones were easier for me (faster horse, better knowledge of class, mechanics, builds) than normal one. I soloed every Dolmen and WorldBoss wich I could not do during the 1-50 travel.

Craglorn aside, I experienced that completing each of Silver/Gold alliance took me shorter than the first one, but thats only me. Of course, it didnt take me that much but about 6-8 hours per zone in Silver/Gold.

I really do not care what you think as I know for a fact you can get to 50 in ~20 hours as I know 2 people who have done it and will have have done it on one character by Sunday as additional proof (i do not trust ZOS to do anything right anymore so i will position my remaining toons at vr1 to prepare to do the quests). I tried power questing and someone grinding at same time in our guild caught me and my partner at level 20 in half the time, or about 6 hours. I switched to grinding with a partner and 10 hours later lvl 40, another and another ~5 hours I have no doubt i will be at level 50. I will miss the 20 hour mark by a few hours, but then i have been harvesting Alchemy ingredients and selling the drops.

And i never said it took 2400 hours to get to v14, what I said is that I personally have 2400 hours between 2 v14 characters alone, i was v14 on one char 2 days after v14 was added, i had already done 1000 quests at that point and did grind from v12 to v14 as i did not want to spend next 3 weeks trying to organize a group between guild activities just to do the few hours worth of quests in upper crag that probably would not have gotten me to v14 anyway.

Since then I have not played less or slower, which is to say if we go by amount of incidental XP since the ZOS promise, then... If we go by quest completion, then again ... I seriously doubt I am unique and i know of several others who have continued to play and chase achievements and almost certainly gained large amounts of XP just playing whether vet dungeons, lighting camp fires, PvP, or daily quests AND have also already done nearly all the quests possible in the game.

I suggest everyone level their alts to vet 1 as soon as possible, as if the CP points are sooooooo powerful that ZOS cannot actually convert appropriately, yet at the same time they are sooooooo easy to get, it means if you cannot or do not take the time to quest for as many CP points as possible then you will be quickly out classed by those people who do (yet another glaring fallacy in the CP progression system).

Oh, so now you change the subject from how much it takes to complete your own alliance compared to veteran alliances into a powergrinding matter.

I am the one who do not care about you anymore.

2400 hours to make VR1-VR14 is also through powergrinding? Such a lame argument can not stand very long. I am sorry I bursted your bubble.

Thanks for the bible, I had a lot of fun not reading it at all.