REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF

Jagath

Thankfully i play all 4 classes. Hopefully i will be bored of the game before they nerf every useful skill until all classes are equally useless. Who knows i might like the idea of just hitting buttons to drain magicka or Stam for little to no benefit.

Rune_Relic

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

I don't think this is a case of ignorance. I think some of the sorcs posting about this are very good sorcs that are more than capable of killing a dk.

The problem is that killing a DK (as a sorc) takes at least 5 minutes. The only reliable way to kill a DK as a sorc is to control distance and drain their resources over some extended period of time. And it takes this long not because the DK is good, but because RS is a counter to all major sorc dps (all 2: frags, crushing shock). Then you have to widdle down a character with great self-healing and resource management with the weakest DPS abilities available to a sorc. To balance this out sorcs should at least get a melee reflect

*holds face with both hands*

No ship, Sherlock. Ofc a battle against a DK is a war of attrition trying to whittle down his resources. What else would you expect it to be? They're tanky class with loads of defensive mechanisms, why should you be able to blast them in seconds? What would their purpose in battle be, if you could just crushing shock them to death while maintaining your distance? What? To be free AP for 1-button CS or Snipe spams?

Also, why isn't a 5 minute combat between a DK and Sorc not indicative of balance but indicative of DK OPness? Surely 2 classes that can go at it for 5+ minutes are very close to balance, no? Offensive potential being counter-balanced by defensive potential to lead to a long long battle.

Jahosefat wrote: »

It will be a glorious day when a real counter to RS scales is introduced. All the sorcs that have trudged through this RS BS will probably pop to the top of the ladders (because sorcs take way more skill to play than easy-mode DKs "I PRESS TWO BUTTONS AND LIVE THROUGH IT ALL" ).

Well of course cry-babies will rejoice, because they'll have their own 1-button win mechanism, I expect nothing less. If you see the pattern of complains is this thread it comes mostly from Crushing Shock and Snipe builds.

The two types of builds that most profit from the game's current "play-safe" meta, that can clock the most kills/death by simply sitting behind the lines pressing 1 button, are actually demanding more nerfs to anything that stands in front of them in the battlefield. God forbid something survives through ranged spam.

I dont have a problem with a shield....nor damage.
I do have a problem with shield+damage with 1 click+ 1 cost.
Quite happy for you to have 100% ranged mitigation.
Not ranged mitigation + damage

Tell you what give me a NB shadow shield that blocks 100% magicka and returns 135% Magicka damage "at the same time" for the cost of one skill.

Komma

Glad to hear they are diluting some of the OP skills. Seems I fill my kill 20 dk daily almost as fast as the kill 20 enemy. Weird...don't ya think?

Armitas

Komma wrote: »

Glad to hear they are diluting some of the OP skills. Seems I fill my kill 20 dk daily almost as fast as the kill 20 enemy. Weird...don't ya think?

How fast do you fill it?

Lava_Croft

Sanct16 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Page 3:

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Make Reflective Scales behave like Harness Magicka, so it will only reflect a set number of projectiles before wearing off.

Page 10:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

I'm satisfied, but also slightly suspicious about the number of 4 reflected projectiles. I feel it should be more, like 6. Time will tell.

Now it's time to sit back and watch the Dragon Knights reply.

Rerolling to other classes, most likely NB I guess.

Then I guess you chose the strongest class in ESO to complement your seemingly flexible spine.

Even with this nerf DK's will most likely stay very strong and most likely still be able to do some ridiculous tanking while also dealing quite a lot of damage. It will just be harder, which is a good thing.

SRIBES

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cas; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Well nerfed to the ground, taking that off my skill bar. Time to go level a NB.

Komma

I also hear they are fixing the debuf stacking on lethal arrow. That is needed also and will probably go in at the same time. Oh and as for RS I think they should reduce the cost. If a dk wants to stand there and spam RS while shield blocking and actually be a tank I am all for it.

SRIBES

Some of you on this thread are begging to get every skill in the game nerfed.

Soulac

Sanct16 wrote: »

Rerolling to other classes, most likely NB I guess.

Rune_Relic

I find it extremely telling the amount of DK that re-roll with 1 skill made sensible.
No... I win = No Point ...I guess

david.haypreub18_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

It's good to hear. Four seems generous, given that the next similar skill, Defensive Posture, only reflects one, and only spell projectiles at that. But making DKs only 4x as good as everyone else will still be an improvement.

I personally would have changed scales to just affect physical projectiles (to counter Snipe), but at least ZOS has recognized (finally!) that Scales is just too powerful for a single ability. So thanks! I look forward to testing it out.

NordJitsu

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Conceptually this will solve the problem in group battles but not in 1v1 situations.

Currently, reflective scales can make a DK invincible against a zerg. Now they will just be invincible 1v1?

It's fine as long as there are a number of ranged skills (Curse, Crushing Shock, Mage's Fury, ect.) that don't count as projectiles.

I think a more sensible way to do it would be to make a toggle skill. The DK can toggle on the reflect ability and each ability reflected drains a certain amount of magicka (being a non-negligible amount.)

That way, they would have to make a strategic decision as to whether they wanted to blow their magicka on defense or save some for offense.

pmn100b16_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

This is a tank by any MMO standard. ^

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

This is not a tank. ^

So please stop using the term 'tank class' to justify your survivability skills. There are no tanks in cryodiil, just classes with different names that need some semblance of balance.

I take it you're a light armour wearing DK? (99% of DKs are), you tell us what your typical dps is in melee combat. What do you dish out with talons/standard/flame whip? I bet its pitiful right? Lets not pretend DKs do not have very good damage output, both AoE and single target with the current LA wearing DK meta. After all, that's why you charge into mass groups of people right, just to see how long you survive, not actually kill anyone. Please.

I said earlier in this thread that something had to give. I preferred it would be your damage output, but they've chosen the survivability route. I expect they've got the stats to justify that approach.

Juraigr

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

This is a tank by any MMO standard. ^

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

This is not a tank. ^

So please stop using the term 'tank class' to justify your survivability skills. There are no tanks in cryodiil, just classes with different names that need some semblance of balance.

I take it you're a light armour wearing DK? (99% of DKs are), you tell us what your typical dps is in melee combat. What do you dish out with talons/standard/flame whip? I bet its pitiful right? Lets not pretend DKs do not have very good damage output, both AoE and single target with the current LA wearing DK meta. After all, that's why you charge into mass groups of people right, just to see how long you survive, not actually kill anyone. Please.

I said earlier in this thread that something had to give. I preferred it would be your damage output, but they've chosen the survivability route. I expect they've got the stats to justify that approach.

Tell me this awesome dps aoe pls

decado0024_ESO

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Reflect doesn't reflect melee. (Wish it did)

Reflect is 4 seconds, not 6-8. (Wish it was)


By your post reflect clearly needs a buff as you clearly think it does more than it actually does.

Oh to all the reflect haters.. You have plenty of other options besides bows. Come up close and feel my cinder storms

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

This comment here actually shows the inherent problem with the balancing in this game. It's almost like when the developers were making the game they made DK's first and then half assed the other classes. No other class in the game synergizes like the DK. Skill tree passives that work with weapon passives, scales makes you invulnerable to ranged attacks, and you cant get close due to talon spam cinder storm healing whips.

Although scales is the only reflect in the game that works on both magicka and stamina based ranged attacks, im kind of ok with that. The problem with the skill is not its description, it is the fact that it can be up permanently. Scales should not be a skill that is spammed every 4 secs, it should be a skill used strategically. When you combine the factors of scales-perma block-talons-bats, you end up with an assembly line build that all DK's are using that negates 80% of the options other classes have.

Now if your the god of nightblades like myself DK's are just there to build my ultimate. Sic a few shades on them count to 8 then strike. Step over the DK corpse and prepare to chase down his sorc friend who is already 3 streaks away. Templars can also negate the DK with dark flare. No GDB-dead DK. Oh and Unstable core actually makes the projectile that they reflect go right back to them.

SoulScream

I don't play dk and I also think 4 is to few.

Atropos

I can't believe the amount of whining and overreaction in response to the Reflective Scales balance adjustment.

1) Scales was/is extremely powerful, possibly the most powerful single non-ultimate ability in the game.

2) Unlimited reflects over 4 seconds at a reasonably low Magicka cost was absolutely unreasonable.

3) Being able to reflect 4 projectiles with a single ability activation is still going to be extremely powerful.

4) It's still more effective than the sword/shield version (and doesn't require a certain weapon type).

5) YES, this will change the meta, so what, learn to adapt. Hopefully we'll start seeing more than 1-2 different DK builds in Cyrodiil.

Yeah, I get it, I don't play a DK. Go ahead and flame me for not being sympathetic to the fact that you're losing your win button. I don't see how people can rationally and objectively say this change is bad for the game, though.

NordJitsu

@Atropos‌


Agreed. Invulnerability to 4 projectiles is still quite a bargain for that magicka cost. Especially since it can more than likely just be re-cast after the first 4 hit.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

You said you're looking for feedback on the change. Admittedly, I haven't tested it. But I hope you look at my idea of making it a toggle where each reflected projectile costs magicka (maybe something like 250 each reflect).

Tinkering with the numbers is the wrong idea. You need to change the function of the skill.

Lava_Croft

Soulac wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Rerolling to other classes, most likely NB I guess.

OK. That one is indeed awesome. and

I do want to add that I can fully understand the emotions related to playing a class that basically only receives nerfs. Wether the nerfs are justified or not (I think they are), nerfing is something that is a 'negative', which is just bad for your mood.

GunemCleric

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, please remember that many of our abilities are getting reworked for Update 6, so please give this a try on the PTS once it's available to see how it feels with all the other changes. Thanks!

it is good to know that the ONE and ONLY deterrent that was preventing ESO from fully becoming to Elder Bows Online is being removed.

I realize that wars throughout history had mobs of bowmen running at top speed into battle...wait, let me try again...i realize that all all previous medieval-setting games encouraged every class to use bows...no, try again ...every Elder Scrolls game required bows...no, no....this game only has bows...no, still not right.

Why exactly are bows the most useful and powerful weapon? There really is no reason to use anything else, and maximizing a build for Bow means that class skills become nearly useless (since == stam/weapon damge, and Class == mag/spell damage), especially when there will be ZERO deterrence (btw, i know you and most other do not care, but reflect NEVER has been 100% reflect, little disappointed you actually made than claim when it can be disproved in a few minutes). Bows do more damage than siege, faster than any other range attack and more damage than any range attack, even without the 100% debuff exploit they more deadly than any other weapon. Most of the armors in the game are actually the designs that mitigate arrow damage btw.

Why is this suddenly to become Elder Bows Online, why is ZOS not doing something to encourage class skills? Why nerf an aspect of a class that was actually encouraging others to use their class skills (deadric mines, endless fury,...) rather than completely give up and become bow users?

i got this game because of up close and personal battles (chains are now useless as everything blocks them, no reason for players to come into range now), you know those sword things that have become semi useless against bow users.

may as well remove reflect completely as when everyone has bows the next thread will be how op DKs are because they can reflect 4 arrows.

Been a DK since early access (not the one of the fotw DKs) never complained about the VAST number of reasonable nerfs already done to DK, but this will be the one that ruins the class, only useful skill left in open field PvP. Just going to be DKs spamming claws and hoping that everyone gets stuck, though the stam build bow users will laugh as they roll away with their huge stam pools while they pepper the useless DK, assuming there is a such thing as DK then.

Even counter siege is barely being used, who needs oil now when everyone can stand above,target, and shoot arrows for significantly more damage. It really sounds like ZOS is not playing DKs (as DKs, not merely choosing the class and then using weapons), possibly not playing PvP at all since already strong bows were buffed in last release.

Gorthax

Juraigr wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

This is a tank by any MMO standard. ^

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

This is not a tank. ^

So please stop using the term 'tank class' to justify your survivability skills. There are no tanks in cryodiil, just classes with different names that need some semblance of balance.

I take it you're a light armour wearing DK? (99% of DKs are), you tell us what your typical dps is in melee combat. What do you dish out with talons/standard/flame whip? I bet its pitiful right? Lets not pretend DKs do not have very good damage output, both AoE and single target with the current LA wearing DK meta. After all, that's why you charge into mass groups of people right, just to see how long you survive, not actually kill anyone. Please.

I said earlier in this thread that something had to give. I preferred it would be your damage output, but they've chosen the survivability route. I expect they've got the stats to justify that approach.

Tell me this awesome dps aoe pls

you dont think being able to throw down SoM faster than any other class can pop ultis is not huge aoe damage? Talons? bat swarm? (come on we know all dks LOVE bat swarm since they can build ulti so quick). You talon people, wait for them to lose stamina (the entire time they are taking good damage) and then talon again and whip them to death. Classic DK strategy. If they do get away shield charge them.

I see a lot of DKs throwing down standard of might faster than what should be allowed, and even using bat swarm over and over and over and over again. Is this remotely fair? Heck no. Should it be adjusted? OH yea! Now I do understand that SoM has a morph so you can move it once(thats the one I used on my DK before I put him to rest months ago). That is not what I am talking about.

Forgot to mention the most important part! ALL WHILE BLOCK CASTING! Remove block casting from the game and you will see more than just DK crying lol That should be fixed ASAP! Getting the FULL benefit of blocking WHILE attacking......come on

Joy_Division

Atropos wrote: »

I can't believe the amount of whining and overreaction in response to the Reflective Scales balance adjustment.

But you could understand all the whining and overreaction that has happened everyday since launch about OP DKs and their talons, inhale, scales, whips, standards, battle roar, etc.?

Because that was all rational objective analysis, right?

Atropos

Joy_Division wrote: »

Atropos wrote: »

I can't believe the amount of whining and overreaction in response to the Reflective Scales balance adjustment.

But you could understand all the whining and overreaction that has happened everyday since launch about OP DKs and their talons, inhale, scales, whips, standards, battle roar, etc.?

Because that was all rational objective analysis, right?

I'm certainly not implying that. Most of the lobbying for nerfs which happens in MMO is not objective. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for reasonable feedback when an ability becomes too influential or causes large scale asymmetry in game balance.

DK Standard was a good example, Battle Roar was (and honestly still is) too strong in a game that (unfortunately) revolves around the usage of ultimates.

It's not an issue of whether or not you suggest something is too strong, it's all about the way you provide that feedback. I can't speak for others, I can only speak for myself.

I'm interested in the overall quality of gameplay in ESO, not whether my class or my build can always beat someone else's class or build. As a sorcerer, I have provided pointed feedback about abilities like Bolt Escape (and morphs) or Crystal Fragments when those abilities were unreasonably powerful.

I think ZOS has the right idea when it comes to bringing some of the under-used abilities in ESO up to the level of the more powerful ones. That's a great way to encourage diversity and make character development decisions more interesting. You can't always just buff weaker abilities up to the level of the strongest ones though. Sometimes things require the nerf bat. I'm sorry when it happens to your class or your build, but sometimes it just needs to happen.

GunemCleric

Gorthax wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

This is a tank by any MMO standard. ^

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

This is not a tank. ^

So please stop using the term 'tank class' to justify your survivability skills. There are no tanks in cryodiil, just classes with different names that need some semblance of balance.

I take it you're a light armour wearing DK? (99% of DKs are), you tell us what your typical dps is in melee combat. What do you dish out with talons/standard/flame whip? I bet its pitiful right? Lets not pretend DKs do not have very good damage output, both AoE and single target with the current LA wearing DK meta. After all, that's why you charge into mass groups of people right, just to see how long you survive, not actually kill anyone. Please.

I said earlier in this thread that something had to give. I preferred it would be your damage output, but they've chosen the survivability route. I expect they've got the stats to justify that approach.

Tell me this awesome dps aoe pls

you dont think being able to throw down SoM faster than any other class can pop ultis is not huge aoe damage? Talons? bat swarm? (come on we know all dks LOVE bat swarm since they can build ulti so quick). You talon people, wait for them to lose stamina (the entire time they are taking good damage) and then talon again and whip them to death. Classic DK strategy. If they do get away shield charge them.

I see a lot of DKs throwing down standard of might faster than what should be allowed, and even using bat swarm over and over and over and over again. Is this remotely fair? Heck no. Should it be adjusted? OH yea! Now I do understand that SoM has a morph so you can move it once(thats the one I used on my DK before I put him to rest months ago). That is not what I am talking about.

Forgot to mention the most important part! ALL WHILE BLOCK CASTING! Remove block casting from the game and you will see more than just DK crying lol That should be fixed ASAP! Getting the FULL benefit of blocking WHILE attacking......come on

please post the build were DKs can build ult faster than anyone else. I would love the 50 ults. I realize that only DKs can bat swarm and fire ring becuase those are only in the DK class tree...oh wait they are not. and dropping standard of might more than i should, please tell me this limit and build, got to know since they will nerf it anyway.

Erlex

I love how nearly everyone picks out the fact that 1 ability is being changed, and entirely ignores that nearly every other freaking ability in the entire game is being changed at the same time. Raging about broken class and rerolling before you even see patch notes is just plain ignorant.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

If they nerf reflect, they need to nerf Snipe. That's not a question or a suggestion it's a fact. DKs are suppose to be the 'tanks' of ESO and RS is absolutely fine the way it is. I'll support a nerf similar to BE but if they make it so you can't spam reflect when theres eight people with bows spamming lethal arrow at you then I'm sadly going to retire my DK. I'd be happy if they just made reflect ABSORB the projectile to, instead of reflecting it back... And they need to change it so overload light attacks and meteor can still get through, reflecting ultimates is just plain idiotic.

Why should DKs be the only class that get's a free pass on Snipe? Especially when they have an ability like GDB. I swear the thought of having a challenge is something that DKs are just terrified of. Anytime they are presented with anything that isn't a faceroll they complain that they have it so rough.

Because we are in the middle of the zerg due to our melee class skills getting focus fired by everyone in the zerg. Meanwhile everyone else is pew pewing in relative safety behind us. We are taking the focus fire so that you can do what you do. Just as a pve tank does in pve.

There are three destruction staves, and a bow. Pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying. You have bonuses to fire damage for Christ's sake.

TheBull

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Not sure if that's going to make much difference there needs to be some type of recast penalty.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

DKs currently have the highest potential damage output and the best defense. They are not OP though...

Armitas

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

This is a tank by any MMO standard. ^

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

This is not a tank. ^

So please stop using the term 'tank class' to justify your survivability skills. There are no tanks in cryodiil, just classes with different names that need some semblance of balance.

I take it you're a light armour wearing DK? (99% of DKs are), you tell us what your typical dps is in melee combat. What do you dish out with talons/standard/flame whip? I bet its pitiful right? Lets not pretend DKs do not have very good damage output, both AoE and single target with the current LA wearing DK meta. After all, that's why you charge into mass groups of people right, just to see how long you survive, not actually kill anyone. Please.

I said earlier in this thread that something had to give. I preferred it would be your damage output, but they've chosen the survivability route. I expect they've got the stats to justify that approach.

I am using Tank, as in the game you are playing now. ESO, not other games where a tank is just a person in heavy armor. We are playing ESO, not other MMO's. Please stop using other games to justify your definition of Tank.

I have about 5 different builds that I use depending on the circumstances. That includes light and heavy armor builds. Source for poll showing that 99% of DKs are in light armor?

If people want to say that DK's have "massive DPS" while taking 10 people on then lets here their dps. After all they are making the claim let them show the evidence. You say our output is too high so tell us what our output is.

I jump into large groups of people to start a push and end the pew pew stand off. I stand at the front line and wait for an opportunity and I take it. I don't throw myself into a group of good players, I throw myself into the weakest link. I do so at the risk of never being able to get rezed at that location and having to ride back. I do it because that is the best role I can fulfill for my alliance which includes you if you are EP. I keep the damage off you and our healers so that you can live and complain about here on the forums.

eventide03b14a_ESO

AsweetRoll wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cas; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Well nerfed to the ground, taking that off my skill bar. Time to go level a NB.

Nightblade might be a bit too complex for you after playing a facerolling DK.