ZOS
Cripple - Why is this being reflected its a DOT. It most certainly is not a projectile.
Funnel Health - "Funnels Health FROM the Target" Doesnt shoot anything at it, takes health FROM why is this being reflected?
Just because? Its dk skill so this is fine?
IF i say..IF you look at the screen when you cast a projectile leaves fromy you and goes to the target. Something that does not happen with sorcs curse and thunder.
l2p,cry less and you might avoid your destiny: constantly-buffed-crying-Nightblades and all classes nubsniping allover
Genuine lol
I wouldn't expect you to be able to read and understand the tooltip. Surprised you can read at all Nicko.
I can't understand your last paragraph as it looks like it was written by a buffoon.
Oh wait.... It was - Nicko LPS xd
Mr brain dead with style:
Whatever the tooltip says a projectile leaves from you and goes to the targeted enemy. Is your iq high enough to understand that?
Ps: i speak 3 languages in total you and the other brainless dude that comment my writing are very welcome to speak with me in my main language if you cant speak at all what more from a buffoon will you be?
Think of the last.
Then there is a fault with the animation.
I didn't realise that other languages were not aware of a space-bar?
I'm tired of coming up against DK mindless flaming and insulting when you point out that their skills are somewhat ridiculous.
I remember the bash threads:) Anyone who suggested nerf was evil and a victim of l2b nub crap.
L2P is a cop out defense of an indefensible position
Bash didn't have anything to do w/ DKs....
Classic argue for the sake of argue.... Grass isn't green dammit!
Was more pointing out that the entire argument is completely irrelevant to the thread, honestly.
But hey, on the topic of Scales, the ability will still be 4x more powerful than the 1h&s version while still reflecting all projectiles, instead of just magical ones.
And it's not limited to a single target (and CC breakable) like Eclipse.
I'd be more comfortable w/ raising the limit of reflected projectiles to 6, but the ability is still incredibly powerful either way.
I just want to say this. No other defensive skill is able to completely turn as much damage as RS. Other defensive skills either give a chance to dodge attacks and reflect none of the damage, buff your defense and only deal some damage (razor armor or lightning form), or put up a shield with finite health.
You could invite EVERY enemy player on the server to use Meteor and all together drop it on one dk, but if that dk uses RS then EVERY ULTIMATE LAUNCHED will be reflected and all of that damage will 1.) get negated, 2.) get buffed and sent back to the attackers. So under that volley, from the entire server population onto one person, will not only get negated but also that dk will be dealing that much damage with one skill.
My main problem with RS is that it negates everything from light attacks to ultimate's and is just good at everything. DK's have frequently said l2p in regards to people getting killed in melee range, but at a range there is little you can do to damage them. The DK's class weakness is their lack of ranged skills but is the ability to effortlessly counter so much with only one skill not over powered?
But its the only counter to my ranged playstyle that protects me from ever having to actually fight someone or take damage
NERF PL0X, SAVE ME THE TROUBLE OF LEARNING TO PLAY GAEM
I just want to say this. No other defensive skill is able to completely turn as much damage as RS. Other defensive skills either give a chance to dodge attacks and reflect none of the damage, buff your defense and only deal some damage (razor armor or lightning form), or put up a shield with finite health.
You could invite EVERY enemy player on the server to use Meteor and all together drop it on one dk, but if that dk uses RS then EVERY ULTIMATE LAUNCHED will be reflected and all of that damage will 1.) get negated, 2.) get buffed and sent back to the attackers. So under that volley, from the entire server population onto one person, will not only get negated but also that dk will be dealing that much damage with one skill.
My main problem with RS is that it negates everything from light attacks to ultimate's and is just good at everything. DK's have frequently said l2p in regards to people getting killed in melee range, but at a range there is little you can do to damage them. The DK's class weakness is their lack of ranged skills but is the ability to effortlessly counter so much with only one skill not over powered?
So what you say is as long as you are many, you should not have to think about what you do? There are still plenty of ranged options to damage the DK and there is absolutely nothing he can do against it.
ZOS
Cripple - Why is this being reflected its a DOT. It most certainly is not a projectile.
Funnel Health - "Funnels Health FROM the Target" Doesnt shoot anything at it, takes health FROM why is this being reflected?
Just because? Its dk skill so this is fine?
IF i say..IF you look at the screen when you cast a projectile leaves fromy you and goes to the target. Something that does not happen with sorcs curse and thunder.
l2p,cry less and you might avoid your destiny: constantly-buffed-crying-Nightblades and all classes nubsniping allover
Genuine lol
I wouldn't expect you to be able to read and understand the tooltip. Surprised you can read at all Nicko.
I can't understand your last paragraph as it looks like it was written by a buffoon.
Oh wait.... It was - Nicko LPS xd
Mr brain dead with style:
Whatever the tooltip says a projectile leaves from you and goes to the targeted enemy. Is your iq high enough to understand that?
Ps: i speak 3 languages in total you and the other brainless dude that comment my writing are very welcome to speak with me in my main language if you cant speak at all what more from a buffoon will you be?
Think of the last.
Then there is a fault with the animation.
I didn't realise that other languages were not aware of a space-bar?
I'm tired of coming up against DK mindless flaming and insulting when you point out that their skills are somewhat ridiculous.
I remember the bash threads:) Anyone who suggested nerf was evil and a victim of l2b nub crap.
L2P is a cop out defense of an indefensible position
Bash didn't have anything to do w/ DKs....
Classic argue for the sake of argue.... Grass isn't green dammit!
Was more pointing out that the entire argument is completely irrelevant to the thread, honestly.
But hey, on the topic of Scales, the ability will still be 4x more powerful than the 1h&s version while still reflecting all projectiles, instead of just magical ones.
And it's not limited to a single target (and CC breakable) like Eclipse.
I'd be more comfortable w/ raising the limit of reflected projectiles to 6, but the ability is still incredibly powerful either way.
To be fair it was the chains then bash combo that was the problem.... So... Sort of was relevant to dk's.
Anyway you missed the point read again.
What i'm saying is that for a defensive skill RS goes far beyond what anything else can do. Other skills either provide a chance to avoid damage or lower the damage you take. RS allows you to turn an any amount of incoming damage to zero, then buff it by 30% and throw it back at the attackers.
And the only counter play for RS is to either remake your build to fight the dk in their strong area, be a dk yourself to reflect, or to wait until they are done. There is no counter aside from waiting that can't be easily avoided by the dk and when I brought up the example with the entire server attacking one person, is there any other way someone could survive an attack like that? Is it balanced that a dk, with one normal skill, can counter any number of ultimate's so long as they can keep RS up?
Maybe make the change if a dk has a ranged weapon out it cannot use the ability...
ZOS
Cripple - Why is this being reflected its a DOT. It most certainly is not a projectile.
Funnel Health - "Funnels Health FROM the Target" Doesnt shoot anything at it, takes health FROM why is this being reflected?
Just because? Its dk skill so this is fine?
IF i say..IF you look at the screen when you cast a projectile leaves fromy you and goes to the target. Something that does not happen with sorcs curse and thunder.
l2p,cry less and you might avoid your destiny: constantly-buffed-crying-Nightblades and all classes nubsniping allover
Genuine lol
I wouldn't expect you to be able to read and understand the tooltip. Surprised you can read at all Nicko.
I can't understand your last paragraph as it looks like it was written by a buffoon.
Oh wait.... It was - Nicko LPS xd
Mr brain dead with style:
Whatever the tooltip says a projectile leaves from you and goes to the targeted enemy. Is your iq high enough to understand that?
Ps: i speak 3 languages in total you and the other brainless dude that comment my writing are very welcome to speak with me in my main language if you cant speak at all what more from a buffoon will you be?
Think of the last.
Then there is a fault with the animation.
I didn't realise that other languages were not aware of a space-bar?
I'm tired of coming up against DK mindless flaming and insulting when you point out that their skills are somewhat ridiculous.
I remember the bash threads:) Anyone who suggested nerf was evil and a victim of l2b nub crap.
L2P is a cop out defense of an indefensible position
Bash didn't have anything to do w/ DKs....
Classic argue for the sake of argue.... Grass isn't green dammit!
Was more pointing out that the entire argument is completely irrelevant to the thread, honestly.
But hey, on the topic of Scales, the ability will still be 4x more powerful than the 1h&s version while still reflecting all projectiles, instead of just magical ones.
And it's not limited to a single target (and CC breakable) like Eclipse.
I'd be more comfortable w/ raising the limit of reflected projectiles to 6, but the ability is still incredibly powerful either way.
To be fair it was the chains then bash combo that was the problem.... So... Sort of was relevant to dk's.
Anyway you missed the point read again.
Chains, Talons, Bash..
Or my most hated: Invasion, Talons, Bash, Bash, Bash, Bash...
Joy_Division wrote: »
What i'm saying is that for a defensive skill RS goes far beyond what anything else can do. Other skills either provide a chance to avoid damage or lower the damage you take. RS allows you to turn an any amount of incoming damage to zero, then buff it by 30% and throw it back at the attackers.
And the only counter play for RS is to either remake your build to fight the dk in their strong area, be a dk yourself to reflect, or to wait until they are done. There is no counter aside from waiting that can't be easily avoided by the dk and when I brought up the example with the entire server attacking one person, is there any other way someone could survive an attack like that? Is it balanced that a dk, with one normal skill, can counter any number of ultimate's so long as they can keep RS up?
Excessive use of adjectives and adverbs turn otherwise reasonable statements into nonsensical hyperbole.
Think about the mechanics of Blazing shield and think about the mechanics of Reflective scales. Both negate incoming damage and both throw it back at the attacker. That doesn't sound "far beyond...anything else" to me.
It is not true those are the "only" counters to RS. People who overspecialize in one form of attack will find themselves at a disadvantage - as they should be for being a one-trick pony.
There are counters, available to every class and every weapon line, that a RS using DK is vulnerable to. If this stuff is "easily" avoidable, that is immaterial to RS as players using those skills will struggle against a non RS user.
The "entire" server? OK, yeah sure. And, yes, there is "any" other way someone could survive that - google "Krim."
I'm guessing the "any" number of ultimates affected by RS is one. Let's see:
Radial sweep? - no
Nova? - no
Right of Passage? - no.
Dragon Leap? - no
Standard of Might? - no.
Magma Armor? - no.
Soul Harvest? - no? (dont play NB).
Veil of Blades? - no
Soul Shred? - no.
Strom Atronach? - no.
Negate? - no
Overload? - one form is and one form is not.
Soul Assault? - no
Dawnbreaker? - no
Meteor? - yes.
Batswarm? - no.
Werewolf? - no.
But I really think it is ridiculous to debate about this skill now as we do not know what other skills are getting adjusted and we do not know how Cyrodiil will play out after 1.6 goes live.
Dk has no range ... what is a dk suppose to do? Bow users just want easy kills from safe distances.... Btw if a dk is spamming reflect its not doing much else....
Maybe make the change if a dk has a ranged weapon out it cannot use the ability...
Joy_Division wrote: »Think about the mechanics of Blazing shield and think about the mechanics of Reflective scales. Both negate incoming damage and both throw it back at the attacker. That doesn't sound "far beyond...anything else" to me.
Joy_Division wrote: »Think about the mechanics of Blazing shield and think about the mechanics of Reflective scales. Both negate incoming damage and both throw it back at the attacker. That doesn't sound "far beyond...anything else" to me.
True, but there is a twist, huge twist. RS can negate unlimited damage per cast, and Blazing Shield only 1200 for top build Templars with ~4k health. There is another twist, RS returns amplified damage to attacker (120%) while Blazing Shield reflect 50% of absorbed damage which would be ~600, tho it would affect all players in area. And, there is another twist, RS reflect attacks from range and BS only in melee range. Could also note that no matter how much sparkles and effects you have on screen in heat of action, you can always see Templar with BS shining like a light bulb, which can't be said for DK and RS.
You are free to make a survey and ask any experienced mmo player what he thinks about low cost spammable skill, that completely negate unlimited number of range attacks for its duration, with no penalty, cd or any other limitation and check the answer. No need to mention which game, class etc. only skill as such. Pretty sure all will say its OP, no matter what.
Did you guys not see the recent patch notes?Elder Scrolls Online Patch 1.5.7
Dragonknight (Draconic Power)
Reflective Scales: This ability no longer reflects melee abilities and only reflects projectiles. We also reduced the duration from 6-8 seconds down to 4 seconds.
Good Job OP... You got it nerfed.. Happy?!
Joy_Division wrote: »
What i'm saying is that for a defensive skill RS goes far beyond what anything else can do. Other skills either provide a chance to avoid damage or lower the damage you take. RS allows you to turn an any amount of incoming damage to zero, then buff it by 30% and throw it back at the attackers.
And the only counter play for RS is to either remake your build to fight the dk in their strong area, be a dk yourself to reflect, or to wait until they are done. There is no counter aside from waiting that can't be easily avoided by the dk and when I brought up the example with the entire server attacking one person, is there any other way someone could survive an attack like that? Is it balanced that a dk, with one normal skill, can counter any number of ultimate's so long as they can keep RS up?
Think about the mechanics of Blazing shield and think about the mechanics of Reflective scales. Both negate incoming damage and both throw it back at the attacker. That doesn't sound "far beyond...anything else" to me.
It is not true those are the "only" counters to RS. People who overspecialize in one form of attack will find themselves at a disadvantage - as they should be for being a one-trick pony.
There are counters, available to every class and every weapon line, that a RS using DK is vulnerable to. If this stuff is "easily" avoidable, that is immaterial to RS as players using those skills will struggle against a non RS user.
The "entire" server? OK, yeah sure. And, yes, there is "any" other way someone could survive that - google "Krim."
I'm guessing the "any" number of ultimates affected by RS is one. Let's see:
Radial sweep? - no
Nova? - no
Right of Passage? - no.
Dragon Leap? - no
Standard of Might? - no.
Magma Armor? - no.
Soul Harvest? - no? (dont play NB).
Veil of Blades? - no
Soul Shred? - no.
Strom Atronach? - no.
Negate? - no
Overload? - one form is and one form is not.
Soul Assault? - no
Dawnbreaker? - no
Meteor? - yes.
Batswarm? - no.
Werewolf? - no.
But I really think it is ridiculous to debate about this skill now as we do not know what other skills are getting adjusted and we do not know how Cyrodiil will play out after 1.6 goes live.
@***_Hero its not about being on my side is actually being accurate to wh
A templar dont need to use projectiles vs DK
Also in case you dont know Eclipse reflects soul assault not only DK's reflect ultimates right? but in this case you guys have a prob with the DK's cause u dont have anything better to do .I would preffer being able to reflect soul assault that is twice lethal as 4 x shooting stars... L2P
Also in case you dont know No2 blazing shield bugs(exploit?) and reflects all projectiles the first 2-3 sec of cast that does not annoy you cause u didnt even notice it right?
This is not quite true or at least we can say it depends on situation. Unless Eclipse is on DK you don't have much choice in your range class abilities to do damage. Sun fire, javelin and solar flare gets reflected and only left is mediocre damage from Spear shard aoe, or to go melee with Puncturing strikes and use Blazing shield for protection and some damage.
Personally, don't see problem in it as we (templars) still have option to counter RS and/or do some damage in periods when we can't apply Eclipse. That is cool thing, as it is not guaranteed counter since it depends on current DK immunity status whether you can apply it or not, which gives better fights overall.
Eclipse reflecting Soul Assault is neat ability and by my opinion right where it should be in class balance, due to:
- Soul Assault casters are puss..s (except if they are healers)
- you need good timing for it to work
- it's clearly visible on target at any given moment
- it can only reflect one Soul strike as you would hardly have time to cast it on two targets using SS on you
- allow for that priceless "oh, yeah" moment
Don't think what you say for BS reflecting all projectiles for first 2-3 seconds is true in normal conditions. Can you please elaborate a bit how you got to that conclusion?
I dont know how it bugs-exploits and reflects back projectiles but as far as i know there was a patch that fixed random dk and templar reflects without any ability active to be responsible for that reflect. I remember how and why dk rs were buging but honestly i aint gonna give you that kind of tip for an exploit..
A templar solo on a keep wall at real life dawn reflecting crystal shards so i gone back and put on my skills crushing shock that i know its being reflected and guess what.. It was comming back at me lol
Also a templar has no reason to spam blazin shield on a keep wall like some dk's do. Im more than 100% sure of what ive seen and to be honest its not the first time that blazing shield reflects back at me lol
Have fun and have in mind using an exploit isnt the best thing you have to do..
If you work it out
My question was to give us some feedback about how can you be sure its Blazing Shield that reflected your spells. Did it show Blazing Shield at death recap even tho you were out of range for it to hit you? Are you sure Templar you are talking about did not have Defensive Posture under that blazing shield? How many people were hitting that Templar at same time as you did? A lot of useful info is missing in order to evaluate whether what you are saying is correct or not, and not to blindly trust what your eyes saw.
Saying how Templar have no reason to use BS at specific location is just absurd. BS is supposed to absorb incoming damage and you were damaging him, thus there is a reason for Templar to use it. It matters none is it at wall, flag, open field etc.
blazing shield does not reflect spells.
i have played since beta, and not one time have i ever witnessed blazing shields reflecting ranged projectiles of any kind
Joy_Division wrote: »Think about the mechanics of Blazing shield and think about the mechanics of Reflective scales. Both negate incoming damage and both throw it back at the attacker. That doesn't sound "far beyond...anything else" to me.
True, but there is a twist, huge twist. RS can negate unlimited damage per cast, and Blazing Shield only 1200 for top build Templars with ~4k health. There is another twist, RS returns amplified damage to attacker (120%) while Blazing Shield reflect 50% of absorbed damage which would be ~600, tho it would affect all players in area. And, there is another twist, RS reflect attacks from range and BS only in melee range. Could also note that no matter how much sparkles and effects you have on screen in heat of action, you can always see Templar with BS shining like a light bulb, which can't be said for DK and RS.
You are free to make a survey and ask any experienced mmo player what he thinks about low cost spammable skill, that completely negate unlimited number of range attacks for its duration, with no penalty, cd or any other limitation and check the answer. No need to mention which game, class etc. only skill as such. Pretty sure all will say its OP, no matter what.
Joy_Division wrote: »
What i'm saying is that for a defensive skill RS goes far beyond what anything else can do. Other skills either provide a chance to avoid damage or lower the damage you take. RS allows you to turn an any amount of incoming damage to zero, then buff it by 30% and throw it back at the attackers.
And the only counter play for RS is to either remake your build to fight the dk in their strong area, be a dk yourself to reflect, or to wait until they are done. There is no counter aside from waiting that can't be easily avoided by the dk and when I brought up the example with the entire server attacking one person, is there any other way someone could survive an attack like that? Is it balanced that a dk, with one normal skill, can counter any number of ultimate's so long as they can keep RS up?
Excessive use of adjectives and adverbs turn otherwise reasonable statements into nonsensical hyperbole.
Think about the mechanics of Blazing shield and think about the mechanics of Reflective scales. Both negate incoming damage and both throw it back at the attacker. That doesn't sound "far beyond...anything else" to me.
It is not true those are the "only" counters to RS. People who overspecialize in one form of attack will find themselves at a disadvantage - as they should be for being a one-trick pony.
There are counters, available to every class and every weapon line, that a RS using DK is vulnerable to. If this stuff is "easily" avoidable, that is immaterial to RS as players using those skills will struggle against a non RS user.
The "entire" server? OK, yeah sure. And, yes, there is "any" other way someone could survive that - google "Krim."
I'm guessing the "any" number of ultimates affected by RS is one. Let's see:
Radial sweep? - no
Nova? - no
Right of Passage? - no.
Dragon Leap? - no
Standard of Might? - no.
Magma Armor? - no.
Soul Harvest? - no? (dont play NB).
Veil of Blades? - no
Soul Shred? - no.
Strom Atronach? - no.
Negate? - no
Overload? - one form is and one form is not.
Soul Assault? - no
Dawnbreaker? - no
Meteor? - yes.
Batswarm? - no.
Werewolf? - no.
But I really think it is ridiculous to debate about this skill now as we do not know what other skills are getting adjusted and we do not know how Cyrodiil will play out after 1.6 goes live.
When I rant I tend to go a bit overboard. This was written after taking a break from ESO, then coming back to do some non-vet pvp and seeing a very large number of my enemies running as DK's (all in the upper 40's) was a bit irritating. Going to try to reply to this without any of that fluff mixed in.
You first (this reply being based off of this post) mention how Blazing shield and Reflective scales both return damage. My main point between the two is where as the damage RS can reflect is limited only by the number of enemies attacking you (hence the entire server attacking example), Blazing shield can only return a finite amount, and it is a damage shield so the damage it can absorb is limited as well.
You bring up aoe as a counter for RS since you can damage the dk when they have scales up. As someone who has been using the bow from when I started this would apply to volley and arrow spray. Volley (from my use) seems to have a 3s delay between when you confirm the aoe you want to hit and when the arrows start to fall. In this time with the game encouraging mobility it is unlikely someone will stand and wait for the arrows to fall. Arrow spray has a 20m range, and gap closers have a 22m range. DK's have the longest range gap closer in the game (Take Flight) so they won't be using that often, but like most classes dk's use weapons to cover the gaps in skills, and with Invasion dk's have, from my experience, little trouble getting to you.
And to clarify, my point with "the entire enemy server population attacking you at once" was more an example to say, in my opinion, the problem with RS. It has no limit and only gets stronger the more people who are attacking you. Damage shields like Blazing shield and Hardened Ward only protect against a set amount of damage, and gain nothing from your armor. RS can reflect infinite damage in its 4s window. Armor buffing skills like Lightning Form or Spiked Armor make you take less damage but you still receive damage, and the damage those skills deal is either from proximity (lightning form's aoe) or a flat value (spiked armors melee damage "return"). NB's and medium armor users, along with some class skills make dodges and misses apply a random chance to avoid all damage from an attack. No damage is returned from misses or dodged attacks and it is only ever a chance.
RS is a guarantee to take an infinite amount of single target ranged skills, negate all of the damage they would do, and return 100%+ of the damage. I just think the real question is what Reflective Scales should be as a skill, because as it is now, in my opinion it is more than just a defensive skill.
Also as a quick thing on ultimate's. Yes, from my irritation I went overboard with the amount of ultimate's reflected. In my opinion, since it is more of a weapon than a power skill Overload's light attacks should be reflected, but I think, not sure but believe I saw somewhere, that the heavy attack was also reflected. The mages guild ultimate doesn't seem to be used much since it is not that strong as is and against anyone keeping reflects up is simply just another projectile.
Again, sorry for the rant, just needed to put my original post up just to vent after an irritating night of facing what seemed to only be dk's. This just comes down to the term "projectile" being thrown on so many skills, including many that shouldn't be projectiles (like the volatile familiar's explosion if it is still reflected). I would honestly just hope that ZOS looks at the skill and clearly defines its intended role in the game with 1.6, guess we will see.
Joy_Division wrote: »If a DK wants to stand in their cinder storm and not move, bombard them (especially since this skill cannot be blocked).
Dk has no range ... what is a dk suppose to do? Bow users just want easy kills from safe distances.... Btw if a dk is spamming reflect its not doing much else....
Maybe make the change if a dk has a ranged weapon out it cannot use the ability...