Nightblades Nerfed... Just what they needed huh?

Durham

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

And I bet, the way ZOS treats us NBs, they will fix Radiant Mage Light and than we deal less DMG out of Hidden than from an unhidden status...

Jacques Berge wrote: »

I usually don't rage. But, if they make it so RML applies to cloaked attacks I will absolutey lose my shirt.

I totally agree, it's a major and direct nerf to Nightblades. Some how, for some reason, it's totally fine for DK's and Temps to heal to full while perma-blocking though.

There are numinous ways to hinder stealth attack damage already but apparently we can't have DK's dying, that's just crazy talk.

This and changes to Death Stroke just makes me face palm, I may as well be playing a DK.

In the high end duels NBs are taking out DKs with out surprise...just saying...One of the better DKs will tell you that even he thinks he would beat out his DK with a NB..... Trust me the grass is no greener as a DK... I will say this i think most DKs play with one bar and they are the easiest classes to be decent at... I think most people see this aspect ....

Durham

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

everything listed by the above comment shows the "DARK" brotherhood as a sneaky, hidden class
key word here is hidden, and sneaky - nightblade fits that description perfectly.
- for you to remove damage from sneak can, and will destroy the entire nightblade class because its thier sole purpose as a class.

No sir.. This game is not defined by class... Any class can do about anything... If you dont believe me stick around till SCing goes in...
By the way no one said anything about taking sneak damage away... They are reducing it period ...I use sneak damage all the time and i do not play a nb...

Durham

Erock25 wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

look this guy! LOL. he has 3 nbs! lololol
something is rly wrong with his brain.

8 character slots.

2 accounts.

4 classes.

Would be kind of hard to only have 1 of each.

/shrug

NBs aren't the only class that stealths. It's a nerf to stealth damage, not NBs. NBs don't get to claim every possible thing related to stealth as 100% theirs.

Sure, it hits stealth-based NBs, but it hits me just as hard in other classes that I play that are based around stealth. Moreso, since they don't get the NB passive to increase stealth damage.

But I'm sure none of this will get through to those who are going out of their way to feel slighted by this change.

It's not just some NBs that rely on stealth attacks, it's all of them, otherwise they are doing it wrong.The only thing that NBs have is that initial burst single target DPS.

@LilChihuahua‌ I don't want to be rude but you are so wrong it isn't even funny. There are a ton of NBs out there not relying on stealth at all. They don't even have cloak on their bar.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

NBs do need to be viable in melee but right now we lack the suite of abilities to do that withon the class itself.

We lack the level of built in sustain available to most classes and require much more dedicating teching to achieve the same as others do with a single button.

We have a great gap closer but until cloak is truly fixed we lack a decent exit strategy.

These things can be overcome but that is the point, they are things we need to overcome where for other classes they are simple choices.

Given those limitations throwing multiple nerfs at us in one patch is silly.

As with the broken cloak and broken stealth I will change my bar a bit and keep on playing a build that I will enjoy but don't pretend it doesn't impact the stamina NB more than most other builds.

Oh my god I don't want to respond but it is just so crazy. NB lack melee range viability? NB lack sustain? Seriously people, you have been playing your NB wrong if you think this is anywhere near the truth.

These people need to watch some high end pvp especailly the duels.. NBs are evil... I run with NBs every night they are very good not really scared of anything....My good friend plays a NB tank in PVE and he is super effective better then most DKs...

LilChihuahua

Durham wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

look this guy! LOL. he has 3 nbs! lololol
something is rly wrong with his brain.

8 character slots.

2 accounts.

4 classes.

Would be kind of hard to only have 1 of each.

/shrug

NBs aren't the only class that stealths. It's a nerf to stealth damage, not NBs. NBs don't get to claim every possible thing related to stealth as 100% theirs.

Sure, it hits stealth-based NBs, but it hits me just as hard in other classes that I play that are based around stealth. Moreso, since they don't get the NB passive to increase stealth damage.

But I'm sure none of this will get through to those who are going out of their way to feel slighted by this change.

It's not just some NBs that rely on stealth attacks, it's all of them, otherwise they are doing it wrong.The only thing that NBs have is that initial burst single target DPS.

@LilChihuahua‌ I don't want to be rude but you are so wrong it isn't even funny. There are a ton of NBs out there not relying on stealth at all. They don't even have cloak on their bar.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

NBs do need to be viable in melee but right now we lack the suite of abilities to do that withon the class itself.

We lack the level of built in sustain available to most classes and require much more dedicating teching to achieve the same as others do with a single button.

We have a great gap closer but until cloak is truly fixed we lack a decent exit strategy.

These things can be overcome but that is the point, they are things we need to overcome where for other classes they are simple choices.

Given those limitations throwing multiple nerfs at us in one patch is silly.

As with the broken cloak and broken stealth I will change my bar a bit and keep on playing a build that I will enjoy but don't pretend it doesn't impact the stamina NB more than most other builds.

Oh my god I don't want to respond but it is just so crazy. NB lack melee range viability? NB lack sustain? Seriously people, you have been playing your NB wrong if you think this is anywhere near the truth.

These people need to watch some high end pvp especailly the duels.. NBs are evil... I run with NBs every night they are very good not really scared of anything....My good friend plays a NB tank in PVE and he is super effective better then most DKs...

Lol a NB tank. What NB abilities is he using? Blur, lol, 15% chance miss. Summon shade, path of darkness, all so useless. Only aspect of terror is semi-decent but even that can attually make some situations harder on you. Compare those abilities to the other classes abilities.

Mumyo

@LilChihuahua

Ur passives are better than many other class skills. That staminareg for instance.
Also Blur is an awesome skill which has to be combined with other skills im sure u never specced yet.
Ur arguments show me that you didn't really get into ur class yet so you should try some playstyles before crying. You just mentioned awesome skills as crap.

Tavore1138

Erock25 wrote: »

Oh my god I don't want to respond but it is just so crazy. NB lack melee range viability? NB lack sustain? Seriously people, you have been playing your NB wrong if you think this is anywhere near the truth.

I hate to say L2R, I did not comment on ranged, it appears bow is fine, even with DW you have decent if more limited options.

And NB lacks the direct single button powerful sustain that is available to others Without playing vamp or rocking a stick or doing other things. Siphon gives some but hits damage as a direct cost so good luck taking out a competent DK or templar before they heal on you. You can stack multiple sustain skills but it doesn't leave much room on the bar for variety.

There are ways around these things but the point is NBs, especially stamina builds, have to figure out ways to overcome limitations whereas other classes just pick a couple of obvious skills and get on with it... little thought involved.

killedbyping

Kypho wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

lol at least this is like the people claiming the shield bash nerf only affected dk's.

it is exactly like that,

idoits who prefer using a class with a slight bonus to a certain playstyle see any change to that playstyle as an attack against their specific class.

100% selfish view point from people who cant see beyond their own farts.

It's the play style of the NB class. If a NB can't lay that quick burst damage, there's two options run or die. Like Kypho said, NBs are squashed easier than a mudcrab. Just blocking is enough to render the DPS of a NB useless. Ofcourse this is great news for you, especially since ur opener is a shielded charge which can't sneak attack anyways.

Look at passives, look at some active skill, its built around stealth. now its nerfed.
look at templar tanking skills heals, 50% miss chance to everyone, shield etc etc etc.
look at sorc heals like critical surge, they can be awesome 2h-ers and escapeers with streak. The big shield etc etc etc
look at DK. dragon blood, relfective scale, fragmented shield etc etc etc....
look at NB heal... dot LAWL... look at cloak....failing every time+short...
compare blur with oplar blinding light. look at NB dots vs DK dots look at survivability skills, like streak vs cloak.
NB is a big fail.

As i said its powerful with cookie cutter BS Lightarmor staff/1h+sh skills with the animcanceling madness, played like a mage and you dont even build around stealth. But who want to be another zombie? Not all.

As for NB is not weak... really? Most of em are the first target because they go down faster to my sucky non-bow staminabuild than any other. DK and OPlars just tank like gods, sorcs tanking and streaking, doing tricks, NB is mehh... some are tricky but still easier to fight than any other class. Even if they kill, its not as powerfull than others.

Use shields like others, switch on siphoning strikes and spam sap essence for aoe, or spam funnelhealth with animcanceling for the 800-900 dmg per ability? No thanks. enough from that in game. I dont want to join the zombies. Why is better to get 2k dps with animcanceled instant abilities, than one 2k hit from bow? It is not better. But ZoS can lick my ....

800-900 ? it is 550 top (non crit) with spell power and magicka pushed over softcap to the sky :S

Tavore1138

killedbyping wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

lol at least this is like the people claiming the shield bash nerf only affected dk's.

it is exactly like that,

idoits who prefer using a class with a slight bonus to a certain playstyle see any change to that playstyle as an attack against their specific class.

100% selfish view point from people who cant see beyond their own farts.

It's the play style of the NB class. If a NB can't lay that quick burst damage, there's two options run or die. Like Kypho said, NBs are squashed easier than a mudcrab. Just blocking is enough to render the DPS of a NB useless. Ofcourse this is great news for you, especially since ur opener is a shielded charge which can't sneak attack anyways.

Look at passives, look at some active skill, its built around stealth. now its nerfed.
look at templar tanking skills heals, 50% miss chance to everyone, shield etc etc etc.
look at sorc heals like critical surge, they can be awesome 2h-ers and escapeers with streak. The big shield etc etc etc
look at DK. dragon blood, relfective scale, fragmented shield etc etc etc....
look at NB heal... dot LAWL... look at cloak....failing every time+short...
compare blur with oplar blinding light. look at NB dots vs DK dots look at survivability skills, like streak vs cloak.
NB is a big fail.

As i said its powerful with cookie cutter BS Lightarmor staff/1h+sh skills with the animcanceling madness, played like a mage and you dont even build around stealth. But who want to be another zombie? Not all.

As for NB is not weak... really? Most of em are the first target because they go down faster to my sucky non-bow staminabuild than any other. DK and OPlars just tank like gods, sorcs tanking and streaking, doing tricks, NB is mehh... some are tricky but still easier to fight than any other class. Even if they kill, its not as powerfull than others.

Use shields like others, switch on siphoning strikes and spam sap essence for aoe, or spam funnelhealth with animcanceling for the 800-900 dmg per ability? No thanks. enough from that in game. I dont want to join the zombies. Why is better to get 2k dps with animcanceled instant abilities, than one 2k hit from bow? It is not better. But ZoS can lick my ....

800-900 ? it is 550 top (non crit) with spell power and magicka pushed over softcap to the sky :S

I too am not sure where they pull these figures out of, although I can speculate...

Erock25

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

NBs do need to be viable in melee but right now we lack the suite of abilities to do that withon the class itself.

We lack the level of built in sustain available to most classes and require much more dedicating teching to achieve the same as others do with a single button.

We have a great gap closer but until cloak is truly fixed we lack a decent exit strategy.

These things can be overcome but that is the point, they are things we need to overcome where for other classes they are simple choices.

Given those limitations throwing multiple nerfs at us in one patch is silly.

As with the broken cloak and broken stealth I will change my bar a bit and keep on playing a build that I will enjoy but don't pretend it doesn't impact the stamina NB more than most other builds.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Oh my god I don't want to respond but it is just so crazy. NB lack melee range viability? NB lack sustain? Seriously people, you have been playing your NB wrong if you think this is anywhere near the truth.

I hate to say L2R, I did not comment on ranged, it appears bow is fine, even with DW you have decent if more limited options.

And NB lacks the direct single button powerful sustain that is available to others Without playing vamp or rocking a stick or doing other things. Siphon gives some but hits damage as a direct cost so good luck taking out a competent DK or templar before they heal on you. You can stack multiple sustain skills but it doesn't leave much room on the bar for variety.

There are ways around these things but the point is NBs, especially stamina builds, have to figure out ways to overcome limitations whereas other classes just pick a couple of obvious skills and get on with it... little thought involved.

You said IN melee as opposed to AS melee so I assumed you meant melee range. A NB, especially with multiple targets, has some of these breast sustain in the game.

Synozeer

Erock25 wrote: »

You said IN melee as opposed to AS melee so I assumed you meant melee range. A NB, especially with multiple targets, has some of these breast sustain in the game.

I like your line of thinking

Tavore1138

Sorry then, I tend to consider melee as close combat rather than ranged.

Multi-target is somewhat different (especially in PvE) & obviously if you throw in a vamp build you can add sustain with that.

But I keep coming back to a NB having to design around sustain whereas the likes of a DK can simply throw a couple of single button skills on the secondary toolbar and sustain like crazy.

We're having to consider multiple slots be that Strife Morphs, Blood Craze, Siphoning Strikes (and reduced outgoing damage) for health... Whirling blades or haste morphs for stamina... and various ones that rely on kills to sustain other things.

Or I can fire GDB & DE as a DK to get equal or better results and still have the rest of my bar ready to do bad things to other people.

I do think NB has become much better against a single target then it was at launch, with or without stealth, but get caught in the middle of a scrap and you can melt real fast.

As such it seems harsh to be nerfing 3 of our better tools in one patch - and on the stealth aspect rather than nerfing across the board they would do better to tweak the shadow skills to make up for that nerf - thus removing the problem of classes with big damage skills using their equal access to stealth benefits to get uber hits while allowing stealth focused builds to have their fun.

And I get that being ganked can be annoying but as one who sometimes ganks it is equally annoying to see a second person ,emerge from stealth, flap their wings and know that ranged or melee you ain't getting away easy.

That's the trade off though sometimes my NB is going to get the drop on your DK and burst you down... other times you are going to catch me in a siege and own me in return. Neither class should be immune to dying when the situation is right. The constant attempts to weaken a class that is just becoming competitive for a 'normally skilled' player is a shame.

Erock25

maysonet_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You said IN melee as opposed to AS melee so I assumed you meant melee range. A NB, especially with multiple targets, has some of these breast sustain in the game.

I like your line of thinking

I knew someone would. Phone autocorrect typing that I chose not to fix.

Ifthir_ESO

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1
NB are already considered the weakest at PvP and now this?

Lol, try 2nd best, if not the best...
ever try playing a sorc?

Uhm, no.

How often do you die 1v1 to a NB, @Kaghei‌

Kaghei

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1
NB are already considered the weakest at PvP and now this?

Lol, try 2nd best, if not the best...
ever try playing a sorc?

Uhm, no.

How often do you die 1v1 to a NB, @Kaghei‌

any good 1v1'er will kill me because im built for aoe, regardless of that 90% of people dont play nbs to their full potential. im not saying its the wrong way, but its the weaker way.
There isnt supposed to be a way to 1 shot somebody and that is why this nerf is happening, lethal arrow is one of the best skill in the game because of the healing debuff, it doesnt need 2k damage on top.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzb9CciliBEOzzNzBKYXJ-w

LilChihuahua

Kaghei wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1
NB are already considered the weakest at PvP and now this?

Lol, try 2nd best, if not the best...
ever try playing a sorc?

Uhm, no.

How often do you die 1v1 to a NB, @Kaghei‌

any good 1v1'er will kill me because im built for aoe, regardless of that 90% of people dont play nbs to their full potential. im not saying its the wrong way, but its the weaker way.
There isnt supposed to be a way to 1 shot somebody and that is why this nerf is happening, lethal arrow is one of the best skill in the game because of the healing debuff, it doesnt need 2k damage on top.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzb9CciliBEOzzNzBKYXJ-w

95% of PvPers have well over 2k health. Besides, unless your totally build around sniping it is very hard to hit over 1.7. Most I find are like 1.3. It's very rare getting hit over 2, not counting camo hunter. Anyways, if you are hit just break and flap wings and ur untouble to an archer.

Kaghei

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1
NB are already considered the weakest at PvP and now this?

Lol, try 2nd best, if not the best...
ever try playing a sorc?

Uhm, no.

How often do you die 1v1 to a NB, @Kaghei‌

any good 1v1'er will kill me because im built for aoe, regardless of that 90% of people dont play nbs to their full potential. im not saying its the wrong way, but its the weaker way.
There isnt supposed to be a way to 1 shot somebody and that is why this nerf is happening, lethal arrow is one of the best skill in the game because of the healing debuff, it doesnt need 2k damage on top.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzb9CciliBEOzzNzBKYXJ-w

95% of PvPers have well over 2k health. Besides, unless your totally build around sniping it is very hard to hit over 1.7. Most I find are like 1.3. It's very rare getting hit over 2, not counting camo hunter. Anyways, if you are hit just break and flap wings and ur untouble to an archer.

most are like 1.5k because the players dont spec correctly. the perfect example of this is a certain dk rerolled nb and now hits for well over 2k with his yogurt slings. its not the class it the player.

Tavore1138

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1
NB are already considered the weakest at PvP and now this?

Lol, try 2nd best, if not the best...
ever try playing a sorc?

Uhm, no.

How often do you die 1v1 to a NB, @Kaghei‌

any good 1v1'er will kill me because im built for aoe, regardless of that 90% of people dont play nbs to their full potential. im not saying its the wrong way, but its the weaker way.
There isnt supposed to be a way to 1 shot somebody and that is why this nerf is happening, lethal arrow is one of the best skill in the game because of the healing debuff, it doesnt need 2k damage on top.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzb9CciliBEOzzNzBKYXJ-w

95% of PvPers have well over 2k health. Besides, unless your totally build around sniping it is very hard to hit over 1.7. Most I find are like 1.3. It's very rare getting hit over 2, not counting camo hunter. Anyways, if you are hit just break and flap wings and ur untouble to an archer.

most are like 1.5k because the players dont spec correctly. the perfect example of this is a certain dk rerolled nb and now hits for well over 2k with his yogurt slings. its not the class it the player.

It is players teching for once specific narrow function rather than trying for a build that might not have the same level of damage from one ability but are probably more able to cope with a variety of situations.

And if it is this single problem ZOS are trying to beat then they should target it not a much more general nerf to all stealth.

Kaghei

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

LilChihuahua wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1
NB are already considered the weakest at PvP and now this?

Lol, try 2nd best, if not the best...
ever try playing a sorc?

Uhm, no.

How often do you die 1v1 to a NB, @Kaghei‌

any good 1v1'er will kill me because im built for aoe, regardless of that 90% of people dont play nbs to their full potential. im not saying its the wrong way, but its the weaker way.
There isnt supposed to be a way to 1 shot somebody and that is why this nerf is happening, lethal arrow is one of the best skill in the game because of the healing debuff, it doesnt need 2k damage on top.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzb9CciliBEOzzNzBKYXJ-w

95% of PvPers have well over 2k health. Besides, unless your totally build around sniping it is very hard to hit over 1.7. Most I find are like 1.3. It's very rare getting hit over 2, not counting camo hunter. Anyways, if you are hit just break and flap wings and ur untouble to an archer.

most are like 1.5k because the players dont spec correctly. the perfect example of this is a certain dk rerolled nb and now hits for well over 2k with his yogurt slings. its not the class it the player.

It is players teching for once specific narrow function rather than trying for a build that might not have the same level of damage from one ability but are probably more able to cope with a variety of situations.

And if it is this single problem ZOS are trying to beat then they should target it not a much more general nerf to all stealth.

Bow attacks run of stamina, weapon dmg and weapon crit, same as 2h, dw and sword and board. If youre gonna go all out on bow you can easily do the same for dual wield at the same time, making you good in a variety of situations and still hitting lethals arrows for around 2k.

But regardless of that if i go all out into any of my abilities on my dk or templar i cannot pull off 2k+ damage in a single attack, and thats the way it should be.

If lethal arrow could only do 1000 damage at 250 weapon damage and 2500 stamina then it would still be a really good skill. The healing debuff is what kills everyone, not the burst damage.

olemanwinter

You guys ever seen that one player that can just take on 5 or 6 enemies and just stand there and kill some of them, before finally....MAYBE enough surround him that he slowly drops in health and dies?

You guys ever seen that?
NEVER ONCE has that been a night blade.

It was said best on the first page: "How do you expect to play the weakest class without that high burst?"
_______________________________________________________________________

Furthermore, I don't understand the dev's goal for "balance". I'm not sure what it means to them.

To me, "balance" means each play style has an equal opportunity to be competitive.

To them, "balance" SEEMS to mean each class has an equal opportunity to achieve the same play style.

I really don't want this to be a game that removes all the risk/reward from play style, but I fear it will be so by the time it hits consoles.

Poxheart

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

I did some testing this morning & compared my Ambush damage in the Live game versus Ambush damage in the PTS. These tests were done against the Troll mobs northwest of Ash. I'd love to test against actual players, but it's pretty hard to find any in Cyrodiil on the PTS. For me, using the same set of gear on both servers, the reduction in stealth attack damage was about 9% (2408 live vs. 2244 PTS).

When I compared the character sheets between the two I noticed that my Focus Rating and Armor Penetration scores are much, much lower on the PTS than on live. Live stats: 4620, 1000 vs. PTS stats: 1098, 470 respectively.

Varicite

olemanwinter wrote: »

You guys ever seen that one player that can just take on 5 or 6 enemies and just stand there and kill some of them, before finally....MAYBE enough surround him that he slowly drops in health and dies?

You guys ever seen that?
NEVER ONCE has that been a night blade.

Never say never. There's far more than one way to play a NB. Stealth-focused is probably the worst way, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtXSIbxy2nI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5mRXoob1T8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MjoXYsPLYY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSqW-N1dKgw

NBs will be just fine after the changes go live. They are hardly the "weakest class", that is just bad perception that's been carried forward since some people said this during 1.0. It wasn't true back then and still isn't true today.

There are still a few (very few) issues w/ some passives and 1 ability that need to be cleaned up, but all in all, the class is still very strong in the right hands.

I come across more broken animation issues than anything on my NBs, tbh.

olemanwinter

I stand corrected, but stand by my original premise that NB needed no nerf.

I really appreciate you posting those videos. They go a long way in proving my statement:

"To them, "balance" SEEMS to mean each class has an equal opportunity to achieve the same play style."

I mean, had I not yet played this game, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference between a youtube video 1vX of a Templar, Dragonknight, or now NB.

But that's fine. I hope all the classes get much more similar. I hope that eventually this game has all the variety and surprises of a virtual arm wrestling match.

Varicite

olemanwinter wrote: »

I stand corrected, but stand by my original premise that NB needed no nerf.

I really appreciate you posting those videos. They go a long way in proving my statement:

"To them, "balance" SEEMS to mean each class has an equal opportunity to achieve the same play style."

I mean, had I not yet played this game, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference between a youtube video 1vX of a Templar, Dragonknight, or now NB.

But that's fine. I hope all the classes get much more similar. I hope that eventually this game has all the variety and surprises of a virtual arm wrestling match.

NB didn't get any nerfs, though.

Only stealth-focused players did, and that is every class. There are more stealth-focused NBs than other classes, of course, but they are not somehow hit harder by this nerf than a stealth-focused Sorc, DK, or Templar.

The bottom line is really: you should not be able to take the vast majority of somebody's health bar before they can even react. That is not compelling gameplay for anybody except those that enjoy winning w/out any real effort.

I'm not inclined to cater to that type of person, personally. : P

I say this from the perspective of somebody who has a stealth-focused NB, DK, and Sorc, btw.

olemanwinter

Varicite wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

I stand corrected, but stand by my original premise that NB needed no nerf.

I really appreciate you posting those videos. They go a long way in proving my statement:

"To them, "balance" SEEMS to mean each class has an equal opportunity to achieve the same play style."

I mean, had I not yet played this game, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference between a youtube video 1vX of a Templar, Dragonknight, or now NB.

But that's fine. I hope all the classes get much more similar. I hope that eventually this game has all the variety and surprises of a virtual arm wrestling match.

NB didn't get any nerfs, though.

Only stealth-focused players did, and that is every class. There are more stealth-focused NBs than other classes, of course, but they are not somehow hit harder by this nerf than a stealth-focused Sorc, DK, or Templar.

The bottom line is really: you should not be able to take the vast majority of somebody's health bar before they can even react. That is not compelling gameplay for anybody except those that enjoy winning w/out any real effort.

I'm not inclined to cater to that type of person, personally. : P

I say this from the perspective of somebody who has a stealth-focused NB, DK, and Sorc, btw.

What a joke. You can phrase things as facts rather than opinions, and you can qualify yourself because you have alts of different classes (who doesn't), but it's still just your opinion professor.

If we put an extra tax on banjos wouldn't that be a disproportionate tax on white people? If we put an extra tax on Tyler Perry movies wouldn't that disproportionately effect African Americans?

Yes, anyone can play stealth, and black people can play the banjo, and this white boy can go see Tyler Perry's latest movie, but you know what we call that:

"THE EXCEPTION THAT PROVES THE RULE"

If you've never heard the phrase, you should look into it.

Varicite wrote: »

That is not compelling gameplay for anybody except those that enjoy winning w/out any real effort.

That's like saying the Lion doesn't use any effort or skill when culling a week or unsuspecting animal from the heard.

Talking to people like you is not compelling conversation for anyone except those who enjoy exercises in frustration.

Varicite

olemanwinter wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

I stand corrected, but stand by my original premise that NB needed no nerf.

I really appreciate you posting those videos. They go a long way in proving my statement:

"To them, "balance" SEEMS to mean each class has an equal opportunity to achieve the same play style."

I mean, had I not yet played this game, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference between a youtube video 1vX of a Templar, Dragonknight, or now NB.

But that's fine. I hope all the classes get much more similar. I hope that eventually this game has all the variety and surprises of a virtual arm wrestling match.

NB didn't get any nerfs, though.

Only stealth-focused players did, and that is every class. There are more stealth-focused NBs than other classes, of course, but they are not somehow hit harder by this nerf than a stealth-focused Sorc, DK, or Templar.

The bottom line is really: you should not be able to take the vast majority of somebody's health bar before they can even react. That is not compelling gameplay for anybody except those that enjoy winning w/out any real effort.

I'm not inclined to cater to that type of person, personally. : P

I say this from the perspective of somebody who has a stealth-focused NB, DK, and Sorc, btw.

What a joke. You can phrase things as facts rather than opinions, and you can qualify yourself because you have alts of different classes (who doesn't), but it's still just your opinion professor.

If we put an extra tax on banjos wouldn't that be a disproportionate tax on white people? If we put an extra tax on Tyler Perry movies wouldn't that disproportionately effect African Americans?

Yes, anyone can play stealth, and black people can play the banjo, and this white boy can go see Tyler Perry's latest movie, but you know what we call that:

"THE EXCEPTION THAT PROVES THE RULE"

If you've never heard the phrase, you should look into it.

And the point still stands that you shouldn't be able to take almost an entire health bar from a player before they can even react.

Yes, that's how an assassin would work in RL, but in a game where you play w/ other people, it's not really going to be fun for the guy who dies before they can do anything.

olemanwinter

Varicite wrote: »

And the point still stands that you shouldn't be able to take almost an entire health bar from a player before they can even react.

That's just your opinion. I disagree.

I could just as easily say:

"you shouldn't be able to perma-spam claws so someone can use a whole bar of stamina and never get free"

"you shouldn't be able to take almost an entire health bar from a vamp just because you can pick them out in battle with your special skills"

"you shouldn't be able to take on 6 or 7 players as one"

"you shouldn't be able to heal yourself from almost zero health to full"

Etc. etc. etc.

There are frustrating things about every class and every build for other players.

Yeah, when everything is perfect the NB can kill someone before they can do anything. But not if they are running magelight! Not if they are blocking. Not if you can't get behind them.

And even then, if you take away 90% of the DK's health....close doesn't count. You're dead.

And even if you are successful, unless you were very selective in when and where you strike, you will get killed in return.

Everyone is acting like NB are QQing about these changes, but in reality these changes are simply to appease all of the QQing by people like you.

Varicite

olemanwinter wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

And the point still stands that you shouldn't be able to take almost an entire health bar from a player before they can even react.

That's just your opinion. I disagree.

I could just as easily say:

"you shouldn't be able to perma-spam claws so someone can use a whole bar of stamina and never get free"

"you shouldn't be able to take almost an entire health bar from a vamp just because you can pick them out in battle with your special skills"

"you shouldn't be able to take on 6 or 7 players as one"

"you shouldn't be able to heal yourself from almost zero health to full"

Etc. etc. etc.

There are frustrating things about every class and every build for other players.

Yeah, when everything is perfect the NB can kill someone before they can do anything. But not if they are running magelight! Not if they are blocking. Not if you can't get behind them.

And even then, if you take away 90% of the DK's health....close doesn't count. You're dead.

And even if you are successful, unless you were very selective in when and where you strike, you will get killed in return.

Everyone is acting like NB are QQing about these changes, but in reality these changes are simply to appease all of the QQing by people like you.

lol?

I have plenty of bow users in my roster. I don't have an issue w/ the burst in PvP. Most of my non-stam builds will wreck archers in general anyway. Heck, my DK archer will wreck other archers majority of the time too.

I've never complained about it; I tend to adapt to the meta in most games I play But I do understand the reason others dislike it. I understand why it's being nerfed from a logical standpoint.

We can agree to disagree, I suppose. I don't mind having an unpopular opinion. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

olemanwinter

Varicite wrote: »

We can agree to disagree, I suppose.

That's very big of you.

ExiledKhallisi

Poxheart wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

I did some testing this morning & compared my Ambush damage in the Live game versus Ambush damage in the PTS. These tests were done against the Troll mobs northwest of Ash. I'd love to test against actual players, but it's pretty hard to find any in Cyrodiil on the PTS. For me, using the same set of gear on both servers, the reduction in stealth attack damage was about 9% (2408 live vs. 2244 PTS).

When I compared the character sheets between the two I noticed that my Focus Rating and Armor Penetration scores are much, much lower on the PTS than on live. Live stats: 4620, 1000 vs. PTS stats: 1098, 470 respectively.

I can meet up with u to test in cyridil in a few hrs. DC here. Pm me I want to test some as well

Erock25

olemanwinter wrote: »

You guys ever seen that one player that can just take on 5 or 6 enemies and just stand there and kill some of them, before finally....MAYBE enough surround him that he slowly drops in health and dies?

You guys ever seen that?
NEVER ONCE has that been a night blade.

It was said best on the first page: "How do you expect to play the weakest class without that high burst?"
_______________________________________________________________________

Furthermore, I don't understand the dev's goal for "balance". I'm not sure what it means to them.

To me, "balance" means each play style has an equal opportunity to be competitive.

To them, "balance" SEEMS to mean each class has an equal opportunity to achieve the same play style.

I really don't want this to be a game that removes all the risk/reward from play style, but I fear it will be so by the time it hits consoles.

I can't believe you're still complaining after that other poster completely blew up your initial assumption that NB's can not 1vX. I'm not sure why NB attracted the lowest common denominator as far as player skill goes but the whining about not being able to insta-gib someone out of stealth is ridiculous. And the thing is, NB will STILL be able to burst for 2.5k+ from stealth if built correctly.