Nightblades Nerfed... Just what they needed huh?

Varicite

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

reActor1

ZOS, if the problem is Snipe damage (from stealth) please make a more focused nerf.
My magicka based melee build is going to suffer it much more then any other.
And guys, technically it's not a NBs nerf but its clear that NBs relies much more on stealth attacks then others, look at our passives!
If they nerfed fire damage, wouldn't DKs feel targeted, for example?

Gilvoth

Lore:Dark Brotherhood
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The Dark Brotherhood is a guild of assassins shrouded in shadow and mystery which has been active all over Tamriel. While their business is certainly not legal, their existence has typically been tolerated or ignored.[1] Whenever an individual with legal authority takes an interest in their dealings, the Brotherhood relies upon a combination of bribery, blackmail, coercion, and murder to keep their activities hidden. They have been bitter rivals of the Morag Tong since the Second Era. The Brotherhood is also known for their worship of the Dread Father Sithis.[2][3] Dark Sisters are accepted into the Brotherhood as equally as Dark Brothers, though members of either gender are often referred to as Brothers.[1]
Contents
[hide]

1 Organization
2 History
2.1 Origins
2.2 The Wrath of Sithis
2.3 The Purification
2.4 Brotherhood Falls
3 Gallery
4 See Also
4.1 Books
5 References

[edit] Organization
Ancient parchment of the Five Tenets
Brotherhood recruitment letter

Like any organization, the Dark Brotherhood has some rules that all members must abide by, though the demand to adhere to them can vary with the leadership.[4][5] These interrelated rules are the Five Tenets: members must never dishonor the Night Mother, betray the Dark Brotherhood, disobey or refuse to carry out an order from a superior, steal the possessions of a Dark Brother or Dark Sister, or kill a Dark Brother or Dark Sister.[6] Breaking one of these tenets invokes the Wrath of Sithis, which, it is rumored, is not just a turn of phrase.[6][7]

In contrast to the Morag Tong's veneration of the Daedric Prince Mephala, the Brotherhood worship the Void - Sithis.[8] However, they see their murders as more of a business, viewing their duty through the lens of economics rather than religion and honor.[1][8] They are frequently viewed as being more pragmatic than the Morag Tong.[9] These differences have caused bitter enmity between the two organizations.

The leader of the Dark Brotherhood is the mysterious, elusive Night Mother.[1] Some stories suggest that the current Night Mother is the ghost of the first, who became the wife of Sithis and murdered their five children in his honor.[8] Others say that the title is merely an honorific given to the current leader.[10] Some even consider her to be none other than Mephala.[2] Regardless, the most well-known and infamous method of acquiring the services of the Brotherhood is by performing the Black Sacrament, a profane ritual that purportedly allows those who perform it to be heard directly by the Night Mother.[3] The ritual involves stabbing some actual body parts (including a heart, skull, bones and flesh) within a circle of candles using a dagger rubbed with the petals of a Nightshade plant while whispering the plea, "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear".[3][11][12] Next in the command hierarchy is the mysterious Black Hand, which is composed of a Listener and four Speakers.[7] The Listener, of course, listens to the Night Mother, and relays her orders to the Speakers, who then dispatch a Brother to make specific arrangements and carry out the murder.[7][3] Their identities are kept well-hidden, even within the organization.[7]

For much of the Brotherhood's history, they have had a special relationship with Argonians, who form a special sect within the Brotherhood known as the Shadowscales.[13] The Brotherhood usually recruits by directly contacting murderers who show promise,[4] but in the Argonian homeland of Black Marsh, those born under the sign of the Shadow are taken at birth and presented to the Dark Brotherhood. A Shadowscale hatchling is then trained in the arts of stealth and assassination, and lives a life in service to the mighty kingdom of Argonia. Any Shadowscale who lives to come of age is accepted into the Dark Brotherhood as a full member. If a Shadowscale deserts the Dark Brotherhood, the penalty is death.[13] During the Fourth Era, however, the tradition apparently died out.[5]
[edit] History
[edit] Origins

The Brotherhood's origins are connected with the Morag Tong, though how is a topic still debated by scholars.[8] One popular theory holds that the Brotherhood split away for religious reasons. In the year 1E 2920, the Morag Tong assassinated Emperor Reman III.[2] The Tong later performed an equally high-profile assassination in 2E 324 of Reman's successor, Versidue-Shaie, who had ordered Reman III assassination over 300 years before. This started a frenzy among the nobles across Tamriel, and the Morag Tong was outlawed across the continent.[1] The Morag Tong appealed to the highest power in Morrowind to ensure their existence; at that time the Tribunal.[2] Mephala, whom the Tong worshipped as their patron goddess, was seen by the Dunmer as the Anticipation of the Tribune Vivec.[2][14] The suspicion is that in exchange for tolerance of their continued existence, the Tong ceased their worship of Mephala in exchange for the worship of Vivec. This is where the break would've occurred - the Morag Tong agreed and worshipped Vivec, whereas the Dark Brotherhood apparently objected and broke off.[2] A similar but distinct theory is that, following Versidue-Shaie's assassination and the subsequent persecution of the Morag Tong, Sithis spoke to a former member and demanded the formation of a new guild of assassins to "marry business with death" and better satisfy the Void's hunger for souls, a guild which would worship him and not Mephala.[8]
The Night Mother, as seen in Skyrim

Another story, taken from a purported interview between author Enric Milnes and the Night Mother, says the Dark Brotherhood was an offshoot of the Thieves Guild, not the Morag Tong. Milnes was assassinated shortly after he had it published. This account asserts that, some time in the Second Era, a few members of the Thieves Guild found it efficacious to strangle the occupant of the house when performing a burglary.[10] The woman who would become the Night Mother thought they should formally recognize and allow murder, but the leadership of the Thieves Guild at the time disagreed (and still do[15]), thinking it would be bad for their core business. Undeterred, she founded the murder syndicate which would become the Dark Brotherhood.[10] The connection to the Morag Tong only emerged after the assassination of Potentate Savirien-Chorak in 2E 431, when several Tong assassins quit that struggling organization and joined the upstart syndicate.[10][16] Who murdered the last Potentate has never been clearly established, though some accredit the Brotherhood with the "accounting" of the Akaviri.[1]

Despite all this conjecture, more is known about the exact date of the formation of the Dark Brotherhood. In 2E 358, a note addressed to "Brother" was found beneath the floorboards of an abandoned house in the Nordic village of Jallenheim which depicted a war going on between two shadowy organizations. Scholars speculate that this note is a rare piece of evidence about the war between the Morag Tong and the Brotherhood.[2] This would make this note the first recorded evidence about the existence of the Dark Brotherhood. About fifty years later, in 2E 412, the Blood Queen Arlimahera of Hegathe wrote a short piece in her journals, mentioning that her family had enlisted the services of the Dark Brotherhood since her grandfather's time. Together with the note found in Jallenheim, this puts the formation of the Dark Brotherhood around 2E 358 or 360 at the latest.[1]
[edit] The Wrath of Sithis

In the centuries after the fall of the Second Empire, the Dark Brotherhood showed just how powerful they really had become. Little is known of their activities during the Interregnum, though it's assumed they prospered.[1] In 3E 41, Tiber Septim's heir, Pelagius I, was murdered by the Dark Brotherhood while praying in the Temple of the One.[17] Shortly after this time the Brotherhood had a strong presence in the Iliac Bay region, having a guildhall in almost every town and city by the time of the Warp in the West in 3E 417.[18]

In 3E 421 a Dark Brotherhood member named Greywyn Blenwyth began his own crusade against the Dark Brotherhood. Believing to have been ordered by Sithis to remove all non-vampires from the Brotherhood, Greywyn founded an organization known as the Crimson Scars. His attempt failed when a member of the Crimson Scars betrayed him to the Black Hand, who swiftly retaliated and murdered the Crimson Scars.[19] The final fate of Greywyn and his supposed sanctuary remains unknown.

Due to the pre-eminence of the Morag Tong in Vvardenfell, the Dark Brotherhood had been driven out almost entirely. In 3E 427, the Brotherhood attempted to gain a foothold on the island, but was repelled fiercely by the Tong; the local Night Mother, Severa Magia, was assassinated, as were many of the other leaders on the island.[20] Later that year, King Hlaalu Helseth hired the Brotherhood to assassinate the Nerevarine, who he feared might challenge his rule. In response, the Nerevarine tracked down the assassins to their sanctuary in the Manor District of Old Mournhold, and killed their leader, Dandras Vules. Helseth later explained himself to the Nerevarine. The Dark Brotherhood also made an attempt on Barenziah's life, but the assassins were intercepted by the Nerevarine.[21]
[edit] The Purification
A Speaker for the Black Hand, as seen in Oblivion

In 3E 433 the Dark Brotherhood in Cyrodiil was betrayed from within. Mathieu Bellamont, a trusted Speaker, was secretly attempting to destroy the Brotherhood as an act of revenge for the assassination of his mother.[22] A new member of the Brotherhood quickly rose in rank and became a Silencer of the Black Hand, purifying the Cheydinhal sanctuary and being deceived by the traitor into assassinating most fellow members of the Black Hand.[22][7] The remaining Speakers, including Bellamont and the newcomer, went to the Night Mother's crypt beneath the Lucky Old Lady statue in Bravil to seek her guidance. There, Bellamont revealed himself, killing two of the four Speakers before being slain by the newcomer. The Night Mother made the newcomer her Listener.[7] The Brotherhood began recovering, but the loss of half its Black Hand and the purification of the Cheydinhal sanctuary left the Cyrodiil branch crippled at the end of the Third Era.
[edit] Brotherhood Falls
A Brotherhood archer from Oblivion

The next two hundred years did not treat the Brotherhood well. A combination of external and internal factors not only prevented the Brotherhood from truly recovering, but crippled them further. The Great War strained the organization along with most of Tamriel, and the riots in Bravil, Bruma, and Cheydinhal became significant problems. Several Sanctuaries and bases of the Brotherhood across Tamriel were destroyed or evacuated. The Great War in particular proved costly, as the organization became secondary targets for both major political parties, and their presence in provinces like Hammerfell was eliminated.[23] This made it almost impossible for the Brotherhood to organize contracts in these regions, and further weakened the organization's reputation, power, and influence across the continent.[4][23] The Shadowscale training facility at Archon in Black Marsh was abandoned, and with no influx of new recruits, the Shadowscale tradition itself began to die out.[23]

The Black Hand became divided on the direction of the Brotherhood, with some pushing for expansion while others wanted consolidation. In 4E 186, the Bruma Sanctuary in Cyrodiil was lost with almost no survivors, which served to further disorganize and demoralize the Brotherhood. One by one, other Sanctuaries in other countries and provinces fell. By the end of 4E 187, only four known active sanctuaries remained in all of Tamriel: the Brotherhood's headquarters in the Cheydinhal Sanctuary in Cyrodiil, the Wayrest Sanctuary in High Rock, the Corinthe Sanctuary in Elsweyr, and the Falkreath Sanctuary in the Pine Forest of Skyrim.[23]
The Falkreath Sanctuary, as seen in Skyrim

In 4E 188, Wayrest was attacked by corsairs, and the Sanctuary there was raided and destroyed. The surviving Black Hand leadership shut down the Corinthe Sanctuary and moved its members to reinforce the crucial Cyrodiil faction. The political and social chaos that was engulfing Cyrodiil and the Empire allowed a massive gang war in Bravil to rage unhindered, leading to the death of a few members of the Brotherhood, including the Listener, as well the destruction of the Night Mother's crypt. The sole survivor escaped to Cheydinhal with the Night Mother's stone coffin.[23]

With the Listener dead and no new Listener chosen by the Night Mother, the Dark Brotherhood was forced to rely on word-of-mouth to gather new contracts. In order to preserve the Night Mother's quickly deteriorating corpse, the surviving Black Hand re-instituted the ancient position of Keeper, who is charged with keeping the Night Mother's corpse intact so that her spirit can remain in Tamriel and speak to the Listener. However, the Night Mother still did not speak, demoralizing the surviving membership in Cheydinhal further, and the Black Sacraments went unheard. Eventually Rasha, the leader of the Cheydinhal Sanctuary and only remaining member of the Black Hand, proclaimed that he was the Listener. However, when he failed to confirm the words that the Night Mother taught to all Listeners and confirmed by all Keepers, he was killed.[23]

Soon, the only known remaining member in Cyrodiil was Cicero, the Keeper, who went mad from a combination of isolation, demoralization, and desperation.[23] By 4E 200, only the Falkreath Sanctuary of Skyrim remained active, so Cicero took the Night Mother there.[4][23] The Falkreath Sanctuary was destroyed around this time, and most if not all of its members killed.[5] It's unknown whether Cicero reached the Sanctuary before its destruction. Some reports out of Skyrim claim the Brotherhood was wiped out. Conflicting reports assert that the Brotherhood not only survived, but succeeded in assassinating the reigning Emperor, Titus Mede II.[24]

Gilvoth

everything listed by the above comment shows the "DARK" brotherhood as a sneaky, hidden class
key word here is hidden, and sneaky - nightblade fits that description perfectly.
- for you to remove damage from sneak can, and will destroy the entire nightblade class because its thier sole purpose as a class.

Gilvoth

all of the bonuses you get for quests in dark brotherhood come from commiting the murder during complete stealth.
you are rewarded for your stealth success and demoralized for any inability to commit that murder outside of stealth.

LilChihuahua

Huh? When did this become about the Brotherhood?

I really want to ditch my NB main, have wanted to for a while. Make a DK DPS-Tank or perhaps a streaking impulse batswarming Sorc. But the questing, Craglorn grinding. Argh not agian.

ExiledKhallisi

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

reActor1

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

The amount of rerolls/unsubs will be proportional, don't worry.
I don't see any justification to this nerf, even if it was of 0,001%.

Lorkhan

Varicite wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

look this guy! LOL. he has 3 nbs! lololol
something is rly wrong with his brain.

ExiledKhallisi

HalfSaw wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

The amount of rerolls/unsubs will be proportional, don't worry.
I don't see any justification to this nerf, even if it was of 0,001%.

One could argue that killing unsuspecting people riding by on a horse pretty much instantly requires no skill.

Unsubbing because u cant gib people anymore is equivalent to a 5 yr old quitting a game of mario cart because someone hit him with a banana.

Xallus

Saying, that thinking this affects everyone equally and some NB's can't see in front of their two hands for being upset about it is so far off and narrow. This would make sense if like someone else said, hemorrhage was tweaked to offset this change. It would also make sense if Dark Cloak was fixed, it has been broken since before beta.

On one hand, it could be said, "too bad so sad." Like the people that whine about Cyrodil being mostly large scale pvp deserve to hear. The difference is in how the game was advertised and how the class was advertised. The game was advertised with pvp focused on large scale battles... The nightblade was advertised as your typical rogue/ranger/assassin, both in cinematics... and when you role one... in all the passives and skill trees in general for that matter.

Playing the nightblade as it was advertised to us, is the weakest foe one can face on the battlefield outside of the from stealth ganks that have been mentioned. Nightblades have had so few meaningful buffs, couple that with starting as having the weakest class (played as advertised), those ganks are all the nightblade has left... Unless...

They go staff and cloth or 1h/shield, and even then the 1h/shield is greatly inferior for a NB vs any other class choosing that option. Take any weapon/armor combination as a NB and most other classes do it better, except for bow. The only saving grace is from stealth (and would be a much more powerful saving grace if Dark Cloak worked).

It is worth mentioning that most of the problems with nightblade (or rather how people expected to play them) is in the stam trees. Terrible PvE dps, and for NB in pvp if someone has more than 50% hp after your openner (and they're NOT a NB) your chances of winning that fight are pretty much down the drain.

This isn't a devastating nerf by any means. It's just another chip off the block, since the most common users of stealth attacks are NBs. Its no more an equal nerf than nerfing a medium armor passive would be, "on paper" and "in reality" are two different things.

All that being said... Fix Dark Cloak... and nighblades don't care.

reActor1

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

HalfSaw wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

The amount of rerolls/unsubs will be proportional, don't worry.
I don't see any justification to this nerf, even if it was of 0,001%.

One could argue that killing unsuspecting people riding by on a horse pretty much instantly requires no skill.

Unsubbing because u cant gib people anymore is equivalent to a 5 yr old quitting a game of mario cart because someone hit him with a banana.

A lot of good pvpers aren't easy at all to gank; they often survive enough to kick our ass (because that's how our class is ment to be: killing on burst or be killed)

One could argue that they could teach someone one think or two...

Gilvoth

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

HalfSaw wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

The amount of rerolls/unsubs will be proportional, don't worry.
I don't see any justification to this nerf, even if it was of 0,001%.

One could argue that killing unsuspecting people riding by on a horse pretty much instantly requires no skill.

Unsubbing because u cant gib people anymore is equivalent to a 5 yr old quitting a game of mario cart because someone hit him with a banana.

no, im sorry that is an exageration. fact is i have only ever met and fought ONE
dragonight who could not withstand my damage output.
with the acception of just that 1 dragonight, all the dragonights i have ever fought have taken all of the damage output i had and could give untill i was completely out of both stamina and also magicka and then heal themselves back to almost 100% health is proof enough.

Mumyo

LilChihuahua wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1
Combat & Gameplay
General
•Reduced the amount of bonus damage provided by stealthed attacks against other player characters.

The number one thing which NBs rely on for PvP is getting nerfed. NB are already considered the weakest at PvP and now this? Now it will be even more impossible to take down a 3k+ health DK DPS-Tank. This would only be acceptable if the NB assassination passive Hemorrhage was increased to offset this nerf.

In case u are not able to play ur class properly you should ask for advice in the forums.
When YOU can't kill a DK you should talk to some really good NBs first and know your role and advantages on the battlefield first.

Complaining about balance as the first option brings true imbalance into the game.
Srsly i just know like 2 good nightblades on the EU server and its not a problem at all to slay dks in dueling situations.

What comes next? The typical "i want a shield like Templar" QQ?
Learn ur advantages. OMG!

Mumyo

Nightblades are at least as strong as all the other classes in PvP and they are also the best gankers in the game having a great burst damage and awesome escapeability as sustain and awesome CC via fear.

LilChihuahua

Mumyo wrote: »

Nightblades are at least as strong as all the other classes in PvP and they are also the best gankers in the game having a great burst damage and awesome escapeability as sustain and awesome CC via fear.

Yea but if the target breaks stun, heals and or blocks. The only thing to do is escape with shadow cloak. Oh wait, cloak is broken.

ExiledKhallisi

Mumyo wrote: »

Nightblades are at least as strong as all the other classes in PvP and they are also the best gankers in the game having a great burst damage and awesome escapeability as sustain and awesome CC via fear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teBL8dbe4k#t=105

Varicite

Lorkhan wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

look this guy! LOL. he has 3 nbs! lololol
something is rly wrong with his brain.

8 character slots.

2 accounts.

4 classes.

Would be kind of hard to only have 1 of each.

/shrug

NBs aren't the only class that stealths. It's a nerf to stealth damage, not NBs. NBs don't get to claim every possible thing related to stealth as 100% theirs.

Sure, it hits stealth-based NBs, but it hits me just as hard in other classes that I play that are based around stealth. Moreso, since they don't get the NB passive to increase stealth damage.

But I'm sure none of this will get through to those who are going out of their way to feel slighted by this change.

Caspur

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Unsubbing because u cant gib people anymore is equivalent to a 5 yr old quitting a game of Mario cart because someone hit him with a banana.

lol, this made me genuinely laugh. Thanks

Kego

Xallus wrote: »

It is worth mentioning that most of the problems with nightblade (or rather how people expected to play them) is in the stam trees. Terrible PvE dps, and for NB in pvp if someone has more than 50% hp after your openner (and they're NOT a NB) your chances of winning that fight are pretty much down the drain.

The main issue is, that the hole ESO System in PVP is just garbage. Melee will NEVER EVER be on par with Magicka and Bow DMG in PvP. Even if they get to an even point, Range DPS will always be superior, alone for the totally stupid healing system in this game.
In other MMOs, Healer can target their Melee DPS an if needed overheal them, that they can go rampage in the enemy lines. In ESO Melees just drop dead if they try to charge...well as long as they are no DKs. DKs can do everything.

Welcome to Elder Dragon Knights Online.

Kego

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Nightblades are at least as strong as all the other classes in PvP and they are also the best gankers in the game having a great burst damage and awesome escapeability as sustain and awesome CC via fear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teBL8dbe4k#t=105

Anyone can kill a more than bad DK.
I mean come on, he is Impulse Spamming in a Duel and uses way to often Reflective Scales against a Magicka MELEE Build?
That alone shows that he can clearly nothing more than run in Zerg Balls and spam Impulse but not doing 1on1 Duels.

Besides your Video showed one of the best DK player, playing his NB alt vs. as mentioned a super bad DK Player that has his Emp. Buff.

LilChihuahua

Varicite wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

look this guy! LOL. he has 3 nbs! lololol
something is rly wrong with his brain.

8 character slots.

2 accounts.

4 classes.

Would be kind of hard to only have 1 of each.

/shrug

NBs aren't the only class that stealths. It's a nerf to stealth damage, not NBs. NBs don't get to claim every possible thing related to stealth as 100% theirs.

Sure, it hits stealth-based NBs, but it hits me just as hard in other classes that I play that are based around stealth. Moreso, since they don't get the NB passive to increase stealth damage.

But I'm sure none of this will get through to those who are going out of their way to feel slighted by this change.

Ok, technically it affects everyone the same. But in reality it hurts NBs a lot more than the other classes. It's not just some NBs that rely on stealth attacks, it's all of them, otherwise they are doing it wrong.The only thing that NBs have is that initial burst single target DPS. Oh, and running away. If fire damage got nerfed would DKs not be upset? Or if shock damage got nerfed would Sorcs not be upset? But would us NBs care about those. Probably not so much. Heck, I'd welcome that nerf as much as you guys are welcoming this one.

Yusuf

Hello.
Please don't throw the good nightblades into the same pile as these wannabe-Legolases.
They're just sniping off people who are busy fighting someone else or are falling asleep on sieges, something any class can do.

Fix the cloak and this class can solo zergs.

Good Bye.


EDIT: When i say fix the cloak i mean fix the actual problems of being broken by gapclosers and physical attacks, not the fact that many people drink detection-pots.

Varicite

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

look this guy! LOL. he has 3 nbs! lololol
something is rly wrong with his brain.

8 character slots.

2 accounts.

4 classes.

Would be kind of hard to only have 1 of each.

/shrug

NBs aren't the only class that stealths. It's a nerf to stealth damage, not NBs. NBs don't get to claim every possible thing related to stealth as 100% theirs.

Sure, it hits stealth-based NBs, but it hits me just as hard in other classes that I play that are based around stealth. Moreso, since they don't get the NB passive to increase stealth damage.

But I'm sure none of this will get through to those who are going out of their way to feel slighted by this change.

Ok, technically it affects everyone the same. But in reality it hurts NBs a lot more than the other classes. It's not just some NBs that rely on stealth attacks, it's all of them, otherwise they are doing it wrong.The only thing that NBs have is that initial burst single target DPS. Oh, and running away. If fire damage got nerfed would DKs not be upset? Or if shock damage got nerfed would Sorcs not be upset? But would us NBs care about those. Probably not so much. Heck, I'd welcome that nerf as much as you guys are welcoming this one.

In reality, not all NBs are based around stealth. That's just your perception of how the class should be played.

There's obviously nothing anywhere backing that up, of course.

Also, I'm not sure how you didn't notice, but I have more NBs than any other class that I play. I'm not a "you guys" welcoming anything.

2 out of 3 of my NBs are frontline fighters; a Redguard stam-build using dual 2handers, an Argonian magicka-build using S&S / Resto. Both of them are just as effective, if not more so in many cases, than my last NB; a stealth-based Bosmer archer.

The nerf effects me just as much as you, believe me.

I'm just rolling w/ the punches, and calling things as I see them. NBs are effected, but so is everybody else. My dual bow DK who has no stealth benefits gets hit harder by this.

My DW / Bow Sorc gets hit harder by this than my NB also.

Like I said, NBs are effected less than everyone else, as NBs still have passives that make their stealth damage higher than the other classes.

Tavore1138

This change (assuming it is not like 0.1%) will most likely hit stamina NB players more than other classes simply because they are more likely to be using stealth because of the class abilities that synergise with stealth.

Since they've already broken stealth in a more general way and medium armour passives still do not work properly since 1.4 they do seem to have a hate on for the 'traditional' rogue type build.

Coupled with the rather bizarre nerf to being able to charge up Death Stroke & the frankly ludicrous change to Rapid Strikes also coming in 1.5 a melee NB will become harder to build.

Satiar

Nah, Stamina NBs are unharmed by this change. This patch buffs the hell out of us.

Think of it like this: build your NB around everything but stealth. Stealth openers we have always with us, we don't need to build around that. Build for balanced burst and sustain. If I am able to go ahead and get that heavy attack off from stealth, great. I just crit you for 15-1600. But I don't make that my focus, and my build doesn't rely on it to win.

The more we NBs work on making ourselves viable in open combat the better. The more we build around stealth the more easily counter-able we are.

Tavore1138

NBs do need to be viable in melee but right now we lack the suite of abilities to do that withon the class itself.

We lack the level of built in sustain available to most classes and require much more dedicating teching to achieve the same as others do with a single button.

We have a great gap closer but until cloak is truly fixed we lack a decent exit strategy.

These things can be overcome but that is the point, they are things we need to overcome where for other classes they are simple choices.

Given those limitations throwing multiple nerfs at us in one patch is silly.

As with the broken cloak and broken stealth I will change my bar a bit and keep on playing a build that I will enjoy but don't pretend it doesn't impact the stamina NB more than most other builds.

Erock25

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

this can easily and accurately be perceived as a NB nerf.

No.

No, it can't.

This is a nerf to stealth damage, which some NBs use as well as some people from every single class.

I've got 3 NBs and I still don't see this as a nerf to my class.

look this guy! LOL. he has 3 nbs! lololol
something is rly wrong with his brain.

8 character slots.

2 accounts.

4 classes.

Would be kind of hard to only have 1 of each.

/shrug

NBs aren't the only class that stealths. It's a nerf to stealth damage, not NBs. NBs don't get to claim every possible thing related to stealth as 100% theirs.

Sure, it hits stealth-based NBs, but it hits me just as hard in other classes that I play that are based around stealth. Moreso, since they don't get the NB passive to increase stealth damage.

But I'm sure none of this will get through to those who are going out of their way to feel slighted by this change.

It's not just some NBs that rely on stealth attacks, it's all of them, otherwise they are doing it wrong.The only thing that NBs have is that initial burst single target DPS.

@LilChihuahua‌ I don't want to be rude but you are so wrong it isn't even funny. There are a ton of NBs out there not relying on stealth at all. They don't even have cloak on their bar.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

NBs do need to be viable in melee but right now we lack the suite of abilities to do that withon the class itself.

We lack the level of built in sustain available to most classes and require much more dedicating teching to achieve the same as others do with a single button.

We have a great gap closer but until cloak is truly fixed we lack a decent exit strategy.

These things can be overcome but that is the point, they are things we need to overcome where for other classes they are simple choices.

Given those limitations throwing multiple nerfs at us in one patch is silly.

As with the broken cloak and broken stealth I will change my bar a bit and keep on playing a build that I will enjoy but don't pretend it doesn't impact the stamina NB more than most other builds.

Oh my god I don't want to respond but it is just so crazy. NB lack melee range viability? NB lack sustain? Seriously people, you have been playing your NB wrong if you think this is anywhere near the truth.

Grim13

LilChihuahua wrote: »

Obviously u have never attually tried this play style yourself. It isn't as easy and flawless as you may think. If you have 3k+ health, have impenetrable armor and not a vamp you are practically immune to this sniper gank build. You will never get one shotted, even if you do get hit with a 2.2k hit the follow up shots won't crit. You will have enough time to break and heal or spam reflect. At this point that sniper is a easy free kill as he has no defensive capabilities. Shield stacking and blocking will also negate a snipe. There is no room for error. You have to pick your targets and if you screw up, run or die. The only easy targets are people with under 2k health and siege weapons.

Also, I rarely ever get hit for over 2k anyways. I could probably count the number of time with my hands, and I play quite a lot of pvp. You average sneak snipe tends to be 1.3-1.7k.

QFT

Grim13

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

HalfSaw wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You guys don't even know how big or small the nerf is yet lol...it could be 3-5%

The amount of rerolls/unsubs will be proportional, don't worry.
I don't see any justification to this nerf, even if it was of 0,001%.

One could argue that killing unsuspecting people riding by on a horse pretty much instantly requires no skill.

Unsubbing because u cant gib people anymore is equivalent to a 5 yr old quitting a game of mario cart because someone hit him with a banana.

No.

It would be more similar to having chosen Ghost to race with and suddenly discovering your cart's to ability launch shells was about to be reduced.