Huge stamina buff and magicka nerf.

Alphashado

This is the biggest change they have ever made towards balance. I like it personally. Yes it's a 10% nerf to casters using a Resto staff, but I always thought it was silly that everyone used a resto staff for dps builds because it was the best option. It is no longer the best option. Magicka builds can handle a 10% nerf. I like it.

Ryzium

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ryzium wrote: »

First of all who impulse spams anymore, it is one of the easiest moves to counter.

Second, this is a magicka nerf because my class abilities as a sorc deal good damage and the 10% additional damage was a synergy with my class as well as the magicka and health on heavy attack. I will be switching to destro when i play as a caster but it will do less damage and give me less magicka back

C'mon man, a very high number of deaths is still attributed to Impulse+BatSwarm. It's still very popular with zergs, it's not like it's obsolete or anything.

If anyone gets hit by 4 or 5 v 1 then you are going to die, regardless of if they use impulse, bat swarm, cinder storm, lightning flood, power extract or biting jabs. It is a zerg... if you get in the way you die unless you have an equally large group to hit them with.

edit: but no i wouldnt say it is obsolete it is still a good ability it just isnt anything near what it used to be and it can be easily countered.

Ryzium

Alphashado wrote: »

This is the biggest change they have ever made towards balance. I like it personally. Yes it's a 10% nerf to casters using a Resto staff, but I always thought it was silly that everyone used a resto staff for dps builds because it was the best option. It is no longer the best option. Magicka builds can handle a 10% nerf. I like it.

I am glad you still consider this a nerf, but I agree magicka builds can take that hit while only hurting PvP casters not trials or pve casters.

kitsinni

Other than the DPS boost the only advantage of Resto was the magicka back now that you get that on Destro there is no reason to not use Destro. Honestly with Magicka back and destro doing more damage anyway this will be maybe a small dps change.

Ryzium

kitsinni wrote: »

Other than the DPS boost the only advantage of Resto was the magicka back now that you get that on Destro there is no reason to not use Destro. Honestly with Magicka back and destro doing more damage anyway this will be maybe a small dps change.

wrong, i get combat prayer for the damage, I get the passive for the magicka on blocking spells and i got the health on complete heavy attack, as well as the 10% damage increase

edit: not to mention the it is a channel which helps fight DKs and all shield users

kitsinni

Ryzium wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Other than the DPS boost the only advantage of Resto was the magicka back now that you get that on Destro there is no reason to not use Destro. Honestly with Magicka back and destro doing more damage anyway this will be maybe a small dps change.

wrong, i get combat prayer for the damage, I get the passive for the magicka on blocking spells and i got the health on complete heavy attack, as well as the 10% damage increase

edit: not to mention the it is a channel which helps fight DKs and all shield users

If i'm not mistaken the entire point is that you DON'T get the 10% added damage. I personally don't see the huge advantage in having combat prayer on your main bar as opposed to switching to it when you need to heal yourself, assuming your not running with a healer.

Use resto if you want and enjoy it great for you. You are probably going to get quite a lot more dps out of using Destro but if you don't care then go for it.

I just think you could do a lot more DPS with Destro on your main bar and then have all the benefits you listed when you switch to resto.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

What cost reduction ISNT stackable? Before there was ever a cost reduction added to medium armor, Light armor was capable of a number of cost reduction stacking. Sorc class passives, racial passives, item set bonuses, light armor trait, and mages guild trait.

Stamina still doesn't have item set bonuses that can reduce cost of all stamina skills of or restore stamina by any means other than stamina regen in a general fashion.

The only thing nerfed is the resto staff damage output, supposedly.

c0rp

People defending HEALING staff being the DPS weapon of choice is about as funny as the people who defended sneaking at near-peak, horse sprint speed.

kitsinni

c0rp wrote: »

People defending HEALING staff being the DPS weapon of choice is about as funny as the people who defended sneaking at near-peak, horse sprint speed.

We shouldn't have to defend anything ZOS made the game and came up with the skills and sets, all we should have to do is play the game. If a resto staff gave a dps increase it isn't our fault. If they put sets that let you sneak fast it isn't our fault. They should test their own game and learn something about how to run an MMO and balance before the last few people that still log in find other games.

reften

So, throw my hat in the ring. Stamina is for more than doing damage. Magicka is mainly for doing damage.

So, if all you're using stamina for is doing damage, than you're doing it wrong.

cazlonb16_ESO

ghengis_dhan wrote: »

I guess the moral of the story is to not get locked into any particular play style and to roll with the changes.

Unfortunately the way the equipment and skill systems work, that would come with a very hefty price tag. I don't think changing your setup regularly is intended by ZOS, otherwise they would have made it easier.

Without user made addons we can't even save and load hotbars.

Nightreaver

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

Although nerf is highly debatable. You now have more magicka to cast Restoration skills.

No, it's really not highly debatable. This was a magicka buff. Healers now have much more magicka gain, inferno stave users now have more magicka gain. The only change is that a healing staff no longer gives 10% damage, which was a bad mechanic from the start. Now dps casters will be using a dps weapon.

No, it really IS highly debatable.
Healers have much more magicka gain, so for Healers it is a buff.
DPS Casters lose 10% DPS which is a nerf.
It WAS an excellent mechanic and choice for DPS casters. What would you have Casters use as a 2nd weapon that didn't favor STA since a Heavy attack that returns STA means nothing to me. Nor am I interested in any weapons intended for melee.

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

were is the Magica nerf exactly?
all I see is magica getting buffed too with the mag return on heavy att, well they changed the resto staff passives from dam to even more mag return, which is fine, R staff isn't supposed to be equiped by a dam dealer, and even more mag return, my templar healer is gonna be so happy

funny though, how they said they wanne make babysteps, made an adjustement here and there over the past half year (mostly done nothing) and now KA-BOOM mayor change out of the blue in quick inbetween patch

Yes, you're a Templar Healer so for you it is a buff. But for Sorcerers it's just another nerf. And I'll ask you the same question, what weapon should a DPS caster use as a 2nd weapon that doesn't favor STA?

And just out of curiosity, what do you use for your 2nd weapon? I mean if damage dealers aren't supposed to use Healer staves then I'm sure you'll agree that Healers shouldn't use damage weapons. So what do you use as your 2nd Healer weapon?

kitsinni

I don't really think it will work out to be a 10% DPS nerf. Using a Destro staff you will do more damage weaving attacks than you would with resto especially with the passives in Destro. Also if you are using heavy attacks to get back Magicka you can do heavy attacks faster with Destro and for more damage. There are better sets for Destro staff and there are some skills you can possibly put in your rotation that you skip over because they are not resto.

It will be a DPS loss I just don't think 10%.

Nightreaver

@kitsinni‌
Once you hit level 15 you have access to two weapons so I use the Resto staff in addition to my Destro staff, not in place of it. And as others have noted it simply is the best synergy option as a 2nd weapon for the Destro staff.
As a Ranged DPS Sorcerer I use both the Destro and Resto staves.
My Destro ability bar is setup for AOE encounters. The Destro passives affect Destro damage and do nothing improve my damage from most class abilities.
My Resto ability bar is setup for ST encounters as well as including a Heal.
The 10% loss means a 10% loss to my ST attacks as well as to my Healing.
I find Mutagen real nice for soloing since it heals both myself and my pet. It is also a nice backup heal when needed in a group.

xaraan

I've felt stamina was pretty good for my character even before this, now it feels a bit better. (The reduction is needed as stamina skills seem to drain much faster vs. magicka - a magicka build can spam impulse much more than i can say, spam arrow spray).

My main issue with stamina builds is that most of the class powers that do damage are useless in a stamina based build. Sure, my NB can run haste or blur, but it's useless for me to run say impale as a finisher b/c even with it's 300% damage boost to targets with low health, it's going to do less damage (and have a MUCH lower crit chance) than me just continuing on with my attacks. Compare that with a magicka sorc that uses a good staff rotation and then uses mages wrath to finish. At least they have the ultimates going off whichever column is better now, but class skills for stamina users still need some tinkering.

Gillysan

Nightreaver wrote: »

@kitsinni‌
Once you hit level 15 you have access to two weapons so I use the Resto staff in addition to my Destro staff, not in place of it. And as others have noted it simply is the best synergy option as a 2nd weapon for the Destro staff.
As a Ranged DPS Sorcerer I use both the Destro and Resto staves.
My Destro ability bar is setup for AOE encounters. The Destro passives affect Destro damage and do nothing improve my damage from most class abilities.
My Resto ability bar is setup for ST encounters as well as including a Heal.
The 10% loss means a 10% loss to my ST attacks as well as to my Healing.
I find Mutagen real nice for soloing since it heals both myself and my pet. It is also a nice backup heal when needed in a group.

Wait a second, your dps bar is destruction staff, and you are claiming this a nerf?

What is it about "with restoration staff equipped" that you do not understand?

The bold part above is your mistake. Weapon swapping, well at least for me, is working fairly smooth. Still an occasional hiccup during combat where I can't immediately change weapons and I have to take an extra second or 2 pause before hitting the swapping button on my mouse again.

Circuitous

The Cycle of Life change is not "much more" magicka gain.

Restoration Staff used to be 10% of your magicka pool. It's now a flat 189 at level 50+ regardless of your magicka. 245 with the +30% from Cycle of Life.

For folks on the high-end of magicka (focused casters and healers, for example), this is actually a nerf. It's a slight buff for everyone else.

Nightreaver

Gillysan wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

@kitsinni‌
Once you hit level 15 you have access to two weapons so I use the Resto staff in addition to my Destro staff, not in place of it. And as others have noted it simply is the best synergy option as a 2nd weapon for the Destro staff.
As a Ranged DPS Sorcerer I use both the Destro and Resto staves.
My Destro ability bar is setup for AOE encounters. The Destro passives affect Destro damage and do nothing improve my damage from most class abilities.
My Resto ability bar is setup for ST encounters as well as including a Heal.
The 10% loss means a 10% loss to my ST attacks as well as to my Healing.
I find Mutagen real nice for soloing since it heals both myself and my pet. It is also a nice backup heal when needed in a group.

Wait a second, your dps bar is destruction staff, and you are claiming this a nerf?

What is it about "with restoration staff equipped" that you do not understand?

The bold part above is your mistake. Weapon swapping, well at least for me, is working fairly smooth. Still an occasional hiccup during combat where I can't immediately change weapons and I have to take an extra second or 2 pause before hitting the swapping button on my mouse again.

I believe sir, that it is you that do not understand.
If you reread my post you will see that I very clearly stated that I use my Destro staff for AOE (and weapon abilities), my Resto staff for ST (and Class abilities) encounters. I'm DPS so both of my Ability bars are primarily setup for DPS.

From the Patch notes

Weapons •Restoration Staff •
•The Restoration staff passive Cycle of Life now increases magicka restore instead of increasing damage.

Notice the key word "Instead" in bold
When the difference between the patch notes and how it is actually working on Live was reported the response was

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up, we'll take a look now.

So if the damage bonus is not intended then that is in fact a nerf.
In fact I would go as far to say its a nerf even with the damage bonus.

With the change to the amount of Magicka returned, even with the 30% increase I am getting less Magicka returned than what I was before.

Circuitous

Nightreaver wrote: »

With the change to the amount of Magicka returned, even with the 30% increase I am getting less than what I was before. Previously I was getting about 245, now I'm getting 189.

You should be getting 245 with two points in Cycle of Life while using a Restoration Staff.

MercyKilling

ghengis_dhan wrote: »

I guess the moral of the story is to not get locked into any particular play style and to roll with the changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcz3IszbDUE

Gillysan

This is a nerf to you, not me. My destru bar is setup for DPS, my resto bar is setup for healing. My resto bar is now even better at healing. Even my destru bar is better at DPS since I now have a little more magicka to spam with.

Kego

Saet wrote: »

It will be good if you can stack all the stam buffs. But unfortunately most of my stamina still goes out with roll dodging and sneaking.

You mean, like Mages are using its Mana for Healing, cause more than 3 Dodge Rolls are impossible, where a Medium Armor wearer can perform around 10+ Dodge Rolls.

sagitter

Macoda wrote: »

While it is getting better, the biggest issue is how the resource pools are utilized. They need to continue to work on ways that this is evened out for Magicka and Stamina users.

In addition to that, there are still significant disparities in the armor types themselves. That is one of the main issues. There should be benefits and penalties for the different armor types. Unfortunately, Light Armor is still the superior armor type to use due to how good the passives are. That is why you see everyone using it in PvP all the time.

I suggested for a damage mitigation softcap, exp:
Light armor 20% , medium 35%, heavy 50% , hardcap 55%

PBpsy

xaraan wrote: »

I've felt stamina was pretty good for my character even before this, now it feels a bit better. (The reduction is needed as stamina skills seem to drain much faster vs. magicka - a magicka build can spam impulse much more than i can say, spam arrow spray).

My main issue with stamina builds is that most of the class powers that do damage are useless in a stamina based build. Sure, my NB can run haste or blur, but it's useless for me to run say impale as a finisher b/c even with it's 300% damage boost to targets with low health, it's going to do less damage (and have a MUCH lower crit chance) than me just continuing on with my attacks. Compare that with a magicka sorc that uses a good staff rotation and then uses mages wrath to finish. At least they have the ultimates going off whichever column is better now, but class skills for stamina users still need some tinkering.

Impale crits with Weapon crit. Magicka based NBs actually keep some weapon crit pots just for boss burns.At least I do . A Stamina user could probably pop a spell power potion for maximum effect on the burn.

Vahrokh

Ryzium wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

What is this I don't even? tell me how having extra magicka restore is a nerf. I'll wait.

FYI, it's a resto nerf and a magicka buff. You think impulse spammers need to worry about the damage from resto staves?

I would say that reducing my damage by 10% on my sorc is a nerf

Having top DPS builds based on dual resto staves.

Do you see where it was somewhat wrong?

Vahrokh

Ryzium wrote: »

I am glad you still consider this a nerf, but I agree magicka builds can take that hit while only hurting PvP casters not trials or pve casters.

No, it hits trial casters as well.

killedbyping

Ryzium wrote: »

So here are the nerfs and buffs
- stamina reduction is now 21% instead of 14%
- Resto staff no longer gives additional damage, instead gives more magicka back
- all weapons give magicka or stamina on heavy attack completion

So now that these changes have been made can we stop complaining about magick builds being so much better? I am a fan of the changes except the 14>21% reduction. This is going to be easily stacked

(21% from armor)+(20% from weapon)+(10% for bows with set bonus)+(5% for sorcs) = that is 56% on top of that stamina costs are also less than magicka. This is going to lead to allot of stamina spam but the devs made that decision so we can adjust to it.

So now that stamina has been given a good buff, I hope the hybrid build players can be happy, but the full stamina build play

Not true. Stil unable to spam anything. Stamina runs out too fast and regenerate too slow specialy if you talk about PVP.

Well, if you in Trials with Dual Wield then yes, you dont haver to worry about Stamina, just spam quick strikes and stamina will never run out (this was even before those changes).

kitsinni

Nightreaver wrote: »

@kitsinni‌
Once you hit level 15 you have access to two weapons so I use the Resto staff in addition to my Destro staff, not in place of it. And as others have noted it simply is the best synergy option as a 2nd weapon for the Destro staff.
As a Ranged DPS Sorcerer I use both the Destro and Resto staves.
My Destro ability bar is setup for AOE encounters. The Destro passives affect Destro damage and do nothing improve my damage from most class abilities.
My Resto ability bar is setup for ST encounters as well as including a Heal.
The 10% loss means a 10% loss to my ST attacks as well as to my Healing.
I find Mutagen real nice for soloing since it heals both myself and my pet. It is also a nice backup heal when needed in a group.

Most people when doing DPS weave light attacks with animation canceling to increase DPS. My point was that you would actually do more damage doing animation canceling with a destro staff because of the chances for procs, fire effects, burning etc. If you don't do animation canceling at all it might be a straight 10% loss for you. I was generalizing.

Cody

I was not aware this happened....

Mendoze

I've been crunching some numbers and actually this might not be such a big nerf for single target DPS in PVP as I initially thought. Now that destro staff also returns mana ( not as much as resto used to ), it's finally a viable option.

First of all 10% spell penetration is definitely a nice passive after light armor nerf, and if you couldn't hit that 50% spell penetration mark before, that alone should cancel the 10% resto DPS nerf ( against magic resist hard capped players ). On top of that heavy attacks are 10% faster and 15% higher chance for status effects.

I'm just wondering which element. Disintegrate chance ( wonder if that 15% from Elemental Force is added to base 6%. If so, then it's shock all the way ) from Shock or 40% snare from Frost both sound good. Cyrodiil on the other hand is full of Vampires, so Fire is always a great option. So yeah, sure DPS will drop a little, but not as much as I first feared.