Huge stamina buff and magicka nerf.

Ryzium

So here are the nerfs and buffs
- stamina reduction is now 21% instead of 14%
- Resto staff no longer gives additional damage, instead gives more magicka back
- all weapons give magicka or stamina on heavy attack completion

So now that these changes have been made can we stop complaining about magick builds being so much better? I am a fan of the changes except the 14>21% reduction. This is going to be easily stacked

(21% from armor)+(20% from weapon)+(10% for bows with set bonus)+(5% for sorcs) = that is 56% on top of that stamina costs are also less than magicka. This is going to lead to allot of stamina spam but the devs made that decision so we can adjust to it.

So now that stamina has been given a good buff, I hope the hybrid build players can be happy, but the full stamina build play

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

umm no, this didn't really even get to the meat of the problem. I can't believe a magicka user is whining about people complaining that they are crippled for using stamina.

Have some empathy and stop thinking about just yourself.

Gillysan

Combat & Gameplay
General

Fully-charged heavy attacks from the following weapons will now restore stamina based on your level:
One-handed weapons
Two-handed weapons
Bow
Dual wield
Fully-charged heavy attacks from the following weapons will now restore magicka based on your level:
Destruction staff
Restoration staff

I don't know if this was already debated elsewhere, but should this be scaling off level or how many points in Stamina or Magicka you invested in? My intuition says it should have scaled off the points in the attribute.

Also, I'm assuming that VR levels will not be in the forumula? Only level 1 - 50 are figured in.

rophez_ESO

It doesn't compensate for the fact that all class abilities are magicka based, and class abilities offer far more utility than weapon abilities. A DK that doesn't use his class abilities (or uses them badly because he or she uses stamina gear) is going to have trouble with a DK that can spam his awesome class abilities all day long.

Edit: I mentioned DK as an obvious example, but it applies to all classes.

ghengis_dhan

I guess the moral of the story is to not get locked into any particular play style and to roll with the changes.

Arsenic_Touch

What is this I don't even? tell me how having extra magicka restore is a nerf. I'll wait.

FYI, it's a resto nerf and a magicka buff. You think impulse spammers need to worry about the damage from resto staves?

Macoda

While it is getting better, the biggest issue is how the resource pools are utilized. They need to continue to work on ways that this is evened out for Magicka and Stamina users.

In addition to that, there are still significant disparities in the armor types themselves. That is one of the main issues. There should be benefits and penalties for the different armor types. Unfortunately, Light Armor is still the superior armor type to use due to how good the passives are. That is why you see everyone using it in PvP all the time.

Ryzium

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

umm no, this didn't really even get to the meat of the problem. I can't believe a magicka user is whining about people complaining that they are crippled for using stamina.

Have some empathy and stop thinking about just yourself.

I feel for hybrid players, they needed this buff. Full stamina builds arent viable because you can counter them easily. I play a hybrid build and I love some of these changes they just can't keep buffing stam and nerfing magic without causing imbalances in other places.

Gillysan

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

umm no, this didn't really even get to the meat of the problem. I can't believe a magicka user is whining about people complaining that they are crippled for using stamina.

Have some empathy and stop thinking about just yourself.

I didn't think he was complaining about the complaining. However, he fails to explain why this is a magicka nerf. Especially since it reads to me like a destruction staff buff with a slight focus shift on restoration staffs.

Ryzium

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

What is this I don't even? tell me how having extra magicka restore is a nerf. I'll wait.

FYI, it's a resto nerf and a magicka buff. You think impulse spammers need to worry about the damage from resto staves?

I would say that reducing my damage by 10% on my sorc is a nerf

c0rp

When players with two handed weapons and dual wielders can be invited into trials and not get booted then I think the issue will be solved. Until that day, its a work in progress.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

were is the Magica nerf exactly?
all I see is magica getting buffed too with the mag return on heavy att, well they changed the resto staff passives from dam to even more mag return, which is fine, R staff isn't supposed to be equiped by a dam dealer, and even more mag return, my templar healer is gonna be so happy

funny though, how they said they wanne make babysteps, made an adjustement here and there over the past half year (mostly done nothing) and now KA-BOOM mayor change out of the blue in quick inbetween patch

Saet

It will be good if you can stack all the stam buffs. But unfortunately most of my stamina still goes out with roll dodging and sneaking.

Thralgaf

First off, I am a destroy/resto light armor v13 Templar, so lets get that out fo the way right now. This change was necessary, warranted, and about 3 months too late for stamina builds. It just was. please refrain from even pretending that this was un called for. Resto staff had no business buffing damage. The stamina return on melee weapons is hardly a buff for the melee guys, its more like ti makes them VIABLE. Gimme a break majika build guys.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Medium Armor
Windwalker: This ability now reduces stamina costs by 14/21% at Rank I and Rank II

makes us on par now with magika

Resto staff no longer gives additional damage - Good, it was stupid

Gillysan

Well others have already commented and just to make sure I re-read the patch notes. I suggest a title change to this thread: Huge stamina buff and restoration staff nerf

Although nerf is highly debatable. You now have more magicka to cast Restoration skills.

driosketch

Restro DPS nerf, dedicated healer buff from the sounds of it. I'm okay with this.

Gillysan

Saet wrote: »

It will be good if you can stack all the stam buffs. But unfortunately most of my stamina still goes out with roll dodging and sneaking.

I agree although will need to see how it plays now. This is why I have always suggested that roll/dodge/block cost reductions scale from the points spent in Stamina. Thus someone who built more stamina into their character will be better at these things than someone who put more points in health or magicka. This makes it so players have an interesting decision to make.

Arsenic_Touch

Gillysan wrote: »

Although nerf is highly debatable. You now have more magicka to cast Restoration skills.

No, it's really not highly debatable. This was a magicka buff. Healers now have much more magicka gain, inferno stave users now have more magicka gain. The only change is that a healing staff no longer gives 10% damage, which was a bad mechanic from the start. Now dps casters will be using a dps weapon.

kitsinni

So resto staff users move to Destro staff which got a nice buff and no one that wasn't stamina will change to stamina because it doesn't make that much difference. Stamina's problem isn't the amount you use it is the lack of synergies with anything else in game.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

driosketch wrote: »

Restro DPS nerf, dedicated healer buff from the sounds of it. I'm okay with this.

yeah this is how it should be!

Ryzium

I am going to go out and just say it, if you have a pure stamina build and you complain but wont adjust to a stamina based hybrid build you are an idiot. class abilities give the best buffs in this game, if you choose not to use them you will lose. Full magicka builds dont need to use stamina because the weapons and class abilities they use all cost magicka so everything synergises. I WANT STAMINA BASED BUFFS but until they are in the game suck it up and play a hybrid stam focused build

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Ryzium wrote: »

I am going to go out and just say it, if you have a pure stamina build and you complain but wont adjust to a stamina based hybrid build you are an idiot. class abilities give the best buffs in this game, if you choose not to use them you will lose. Full magicka builds dont need to use stamina because the weapons and class abilities they use all cost magicka so everything synergises. I WANT STAMINA BASED BUFFS but until they are in the game suck it up and play a hybrid stam focused build

what are you talking about ! eat my arrows!

Ryzium

c0rp wrote: »

When players with two handed weapons and dual wielders can be invited into trials and not get booted then I think the issue will be solved. Until that day, its a work in progress.

All i have to say to you is (evil hunter+cleave/whirlwind + 1 good class AoE= good sustained stam AoE)

(Venom arrow + animation canceling + evil hunter + 1 good class buff = good single target DPS)

With the insanely low cost of stam abilities using evil hunter for trials works extremely well. If you still dont think stam builds can be competitive in trials then L2P.

PS) No you wont be the best, the best means you compromise what you want for what is the best and the magicka destro staff is the best right now

ghengis_dhan

Macoda wrote: »

Unfortunately, Light Armor is still the superior armor type to use due to how good the passives are. That is why you see everyone using it in PvP all the time.

That is just not true. You see many players in all medium armor for the sneak benefits. Gankers in particular are almost always in medium armor.

I wear 5 heavy, 2 light while in Cyrodiil.

Ryzium

If you complain about people who used resto as an offensive weapon can we all complain about the use of sword and shield as a defensive weapon and the best offensive weapon in the game now. (for PvP)

Maulkin

c0rp wrote: »

When players with two handed weapons and dual wielders can be invited into trials and not get booted then I think the issue will be solved. Until that day, its a work in progress.

You're right it still needs some changes, work in progress and all, but it's getting closer. In trials as a stamina DD you rely on healers, so your magicka is not an issue as in PvP.

What I feel is missing is for stamina players in PvE:

1. A spell symmetry type of spell that converts magicka or health into stamina
2. Weapon bleed DoTs to apply to all monsters and undead. If Fire Atronachs can take Fire Dmg they sure can take bleed damage. It's equally irrational and at least it's balanced.

#1 is probably going to be solved with spell crafting while #2 is a change they should have made long time ago if they new what they were doing.

PvP is another question. Stamina builds at the moment are doing a crap-ton of damage, especially archers. Their problem is survivability because all shields and heals use magicka.

If your stamina build comes up 1v1 against a magicka-based DK or Templar....he'll just swallow the dmg, heal up then punish you for even entertaining the thought you could win. Oh and he'll keep shield-charging you down till you're flat out of stamina and can't do anything. Your only realistic stamina option atm is to be a stealthed archer and gtfo when you get discovered.

The PvP issue is a bit harder to solve.

Ryzium

ghengis_dhan wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

Unfortunately, Light Armor is still the superior armor type to use due to how good the passives are. That is why you see everyone using it in PvP all the time.

That is just not true. You see many players in all medium armor for the sneak benefits. Gankers in particular are almost always in medium armor.

I wear 5 heavy, 2 light while in Cyrodiil.

I use 5 light 2 medium because i dont need the regen for my stamina and need the cost reduction and regen for magicka but i use 2 handed. it is a ton of fun and is very viable in PvP

Ryzium

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

What is this I don't even? tell me how having extra magicka restore is a nerf. I'll wait.

FYI, it's a resto nerf and a magicka buff. You think impulse spammers need to worry about the damage from resto staves?

First of all who impulse spams anymore, it is one of the easiest moves to counter.

Second, this is a magicka nerf because my class abilities as a sorc deal good damage and the 10% additional damage was a synergy with my class as well as the magicka and health on heavy attack. I will be switching to destro when i play as a caster but it will do less damage and give me less magicka back

Gillysan

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

Although nerf is highly debatable. You now have more magicka to cast Restoration skills.

No, it's really not highly debatable. This was a magicka buff. Healers now have much more magicka gain, inferno stave users now have more magicka gain. The only change is that a healing staff no longer gives 10% damage, which was a bad mechanic from the start. Now dps casters will be using a dps weapon.

It's called sarcasm and I was answering the OP's claim that it is a magicka nerf.

Also, this is just a maintenance day patch, this isn't even everything they have recently posted that they are working on. So no need to hit the panic button just yet.

Maulkin

Ryzium wrote: »

First of all who impulse spams anymore, it is one of the easiest moves to counter.

Second, this is a magicka nerf because my class abilities as a sorc deal good damage and the 10% additional damage was a synergy with my class as well as the magicka and health on heavy attack. I will be switching to destro when i play as a caster but it will do less damage and give me less magicka back

C'mon man, a very high number of deaths is still attributed to Impulse+BatSwarm. It's still very popular with zergs, it's not like it's obsolete or anything.