Should Magelight take 2 skill slots?

Armitas

Right now Magelight takes 2 skill slots to use effectively because if you switch weapons to a bar without Magelight the the skill will drop off. This requires one to either
A. Use only 1 action bar, and recast every time the action bars switch.
B. Use two action bars with mage light on both. Using up 2 slots for an identical skill.

Note there are skills that stick through hotswaps and do not require dual slotting.
Should Magelight be altered in such a way that it will work on both bars without having to slot it twice?

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Since it gives huge buff to crit, it is decent "penalty" to having it.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Since it gives huge buff to crit, it is decent "penalty" to having it.

Radiant magelight would suffer the same "penalty" for only 10% crit.

PBpsy

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Since it gives huge buff to crit, it is decent "penalty" to having it.

When weapon crit has the same 2 slot requirement to reach the amount of crit it can reach now then magelight taking 2 slots would be justified.

Supersun

I think the real question is, should the weapon version take 2 ultimate slots.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

Note there are skills that stick through hotswaps and do not require dual slotting.
Should Magelight be altered in such a way that it will work on both bars without having to slot it twice?

There are no such skills in the game right now. There are 2 kinds of buffs, the "lasts for xx seconds" type will last through swaps, the "reserves xx% of your magicka" won't.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Note there are skills that stick through hotswaps and do not require dual slotting.
Should Magelight be altered in such a way that it will work on both bars without having to slot it twice?

There are no such skills in the game right now. There are 2 kinds of buffs, the "lasts for xx seconds" type will last through swaps, the "reserves xx% of your magicka" won't.

I am not saying there are skill abilities "in the class of magelight" that stick through a weapon swap, I am saying there are "skills", that are restricted to a line but stick through weapon swaps of a different line, such as defensive posture.

I'm asking if the skill should be "altered in such a way that it will work on both bars". Altering it to work like the other class would be one of the possible options, even though this thread does not stipulate any particular option.

Pmarsico9

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

The penalty would only make sense if there was a means to raise crit aside from what exists now.

There's no gear customization available to raise critical strike. And Magelight also only buffs spell crit.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

The penalty would only make sense if there was a means to raise crit aside from what exists now.

There's no gear customization available to raise critical strike. And Magelight also only buffs spell crit.

Yes there is. Twilight's Embrace. Ashen Grip. Night Mother's Gaze. Willow's Path. Hunding's Rage.

Chuggernaut

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

I view mage light like a summon, and all summons drop off when you weapon swap so I think it should stay the same.

GwaynLoki

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

As long as it directly counters NBs cloak, detects stealthed enemies and buffs your spell crit by 10/20% (and optionally reduces dmg from stealth attacks by 50%) I think requiring it to be slotted twice is ok for the low price of 5% max. magicka.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I view mage light like a summon, and all summons drop off when you weapon swap so I think it should stay the same.

Well do you feel like a summon, such as a sorc summon, should require 2 skill slots to use? Is their value comparable to two skills worth?

I know many people are using the 1 bar summon exploit, but for those that do not wish to exploit is twilight matriarch worth 2 skill slots?

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

GwaynLoki wrote: »

As long as it directly counters NBs cloak, detects stealthed enemies and buffs your spell crit by 10/20% (and optionally reduces dmg from stealth attacks by 50%) I think requiring it to be slotted twice is ok for the low price of 5% max. magicka.

*Magelight is affected by stealth detection radius reduction so you still have to be right on them and far below the 12 meters. I have stood in the middle of an imperial gate with magelight on, watched a player dismount and stealth then in a few seconds I hear fighting behind me and it's that player. Magelight doesn't even cover half the width of an imperial gate entrance. Not to mention there are numerous threads saying it's detection is broken/useless.

*That 5% penatly is more than a mundus stone worth of magikca and 2 slots.

*1 piece of impenetrable armor is -10% crit.
* 2 piece of impenetrable armor is -20% crit,

* So in total Magelight is 6-7meteres of stealth detection, 0%crit, -120 magicka and 2 skills slots. If I want stealth detection I can pop a detect pot, it's far more useful and doesn't come at such a steep penalty.

Yusuf

I just want to see the results

Magelight functions the same way as a sorcerer's pets or siphoning strikes of a nightblade, it's a toggle. Every toggle needs to be on both bars or otherwise it'll get deactivated. They implemented this afaik in the late beta because people just had ALL their toggles on one bar and all combat skills on the other.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

As it stands now we can build a bar 2 ways.
* 2 separate distinct and complete roles for example a single target DW build and an aoe destro build.
* 1 distinct and complete role and 1 assist bar for example 1 bar runs dps the second bar may have rapid regen, spike armor, molten weapons, evil hunter etc and other buffs.

So we can have a full bar of buffs and a full bar of damage now just not toggles or summons. With the introduction of "instant" swaps our buffs are now "as if" they were on our main bar, minus weaving. Having a main bar and an assistant bar is just a normal part of MMO's I wonder why they chose to make that change in beta, and only for one type.

Chuggernaut

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Armitas wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I view mage light like a summon, and all summons drop off when you weapon swap so I think it should stay the same.

Well do you feel like a summon, such as a sorc summon, should require 2 skill slots to use? Is their value comparable to two skills worth?

I know many people are using the 1 bar summon exploit, but for those that do not wish to exploit is twilight matriarch worth 2 skill slots?

Yeah the Sorcerer summons (and I assume the spell craft summons when they go live). They don't do a lot of damage, but they do help so I don't have a problem with them taking 2 slots. The only spell that actually shocked me that it required 2 slots was daedric armor.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I view mage light like a summon, and all summons drop off when you weapon swap so I think it should stay the same.

Well do you feel like a summon, such as a sorc summon, should require 2 skill slots to use? Is their value comparable to two skills worth?

I know many people are using the 1 bar summon exploit, but for those that do not wish to exploit is twilight matriarch worth 2 skill slots?

Yeah the Sorcerer summons (and I assume the spell craft summons when they go live). They don't do a lot of damage, but they do help so I don't have a problem with them taking 2 slots. The only spell that actually shocked me that it required 2 slots was daedric armor.

Yeah, daedric armor already comes with a penalty (-10% max magicka) why does it have to cost 10% magicka and 2 skill slots? Man you could easily use 6skill slots for 3 skills and lose 30%magicka in the daedric line. 2/3 of the whole line costs 2skill slots and a magicka penalty to use. I have to wonder if the whole 2 skill slot requirement for a single skill is intentional or a condition of the current system.

(Since this is so much broader than one skill I will probably do another poll regarding the toggle/summon system after this one receives a significant number of votes.)

Chuggernaut

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Armitas wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I view mage light like a summon, and all summons drop off when you weapon swap so I think it should stay the same.

Well do you feel like a summon, such as a sorc summon, should require 2 skill slots to use? Is their value comparable to two skills worth?

I know many people are using the 1 bar summon exploit, but for those that do not wish to exploit is twilight matriarch worth 2 skill slots?

Yeah the Sorcerer summons (and I assume the spell craft summons when they go live). They don't do a lot of damage, but they do help so I don't have a problem with them taking 2 slots. The only spell that actually shocked me that it required 2 slots was daedric armor.

Yeah, daedric armor already comes with a penalty (-10% max magicka) why does it have to cost 10% magicka and 2 skill slot?

I couldn't agree more, and that's why I don't use it. Also, not sure if they fixed it or not yet, but weapon swap would malfunction when daedric armor was up (reported it in beta).

Nox_Aeterna

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

For now twice. This happens to many skills and for now it is ok.

AFTER the spellcraft system , when they should add skills of this kind every player would use , then they should add slots for skills that are always active on the side.

Pmarsico9

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

The penalty would only make sense if there was a means to raise crit aside from what exists now.

There's no gear customization available to raise critical strike. And Magelight also only buffs spell crit.

Yes there is. Twilight's Embrace. Ashen Grip. Night Mother's Gaze. Willow's Path. Hunding's Rage.

That's not really the ability to put crit on gear. Those are set bonuses. It's different. It takes multiple pieces to gain small amounts.

Tamanous

It is a toggle power. All toggle powers stop after switching weapons if not on both bars. Does this mechanic confuse people?

You are asking to have the skill changed to a limited duration skill. Would having to burn resources every 20-30 seconds and a gcd be better? I imagine many would not want that as well.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Tamanous wrote: »

It is a toggle power. All toggle powers stop after switching weapons if not on both bars. Does this mechanic confuse people?

You are asking to have the skill changed to a limited duration skill. Would having to burn resources every 20-30 seconds and a gcd be better? I imagine many would not want that as well.

That is not what I asked. I said "Should Magelight be altered in such a way that it will work on both bars without having to slot it twice? " I said nothing about making it have a duration or altering it's class type. How you are able to assemble so many unwritten words and claim that I said them is the only confusing thing that I can see.

ErykGrimm

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Armitas wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

It is a toggle power. All toggle powers stop after switching weapons if not on both bars. Does this mechanic confuse people?

You are asking to have the skill changed to a limited duration skill. Would having to burn resources every 20-30 seconds and a gcd be better? I imagine many would not want that as well.

That is not what I asked. I said "Should Magelight be altered in such a way that it will work on both bars without having to slot it twice? " I said nothing about making it have a duration or altering it's class type. How you are able to assemble so many unwritten words and claim that I said them is the only confusing thing that I can see.

Why should any one skill be allowed special permission to be toggled on while not slotted on the current action bar? There are not any other toggles to my knowledge that get the same exception. If one toggle is allowed to remain active while on the non active bar, all toggles should be treated the same. Which brings us back to beta. But of course, you want special treatment for one skill. tamanous, was just trying to give a logical implementation of what you seem to think is a good idea. Lol.

CaptainSilverbrow

PBpsy wrote: »

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Since it gives huge buff to crit, it is decent "penalty" to having it.

When weapon crit has the same 2 slot requirement to reach the amount of crit it can reach now then magelight taking 2 slots would be justified.

I really wish Magelight just buffed crit' wholesale. This caster favoritism is ridiculous. Melee-centric players have gotta struggle and reconcile with harsh restrictions to itemization and choice just to break even, straight casters get 40% (of 50%) handed to them for a skill slot they don't even need because the other four are magicka-consuming IWIN buttons, ala Impulse.

Elf_Boy

I just want to see the results

I belive that skill bars are not being used as the game designers had envisioned.

I think they were projecting something along the lines of this is my PVE bar and my PVP bar or my SOLO v Dungeon etc.

Instead many people are using weapon swapping simply to expand the available skill slots.

Were the skill system realigned and a separate 5 slot, non switching, bar be placed under the first with a restriction of no direct damage spells/abilities, eg pets, buffs, armor click skills, much of the debate and issues with total number of skill slots and having to double slot pets/buffs etc, would become a debate of the past.

With the spell crafting system inbound I see the complaining about only 5 spots and pets/buffs expiring increasing to a discordant cacophony of noise.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

killerintheline9 wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

The penalty would only make sense if there was a means to raise crit aside from what exists now.

There's no gear customization available to raise critical strike. And Magelight also only buffs spell crit.

Yes there is. Twilight's Embrace. Ashen Grip. Night Mother's Gaze. Willow's Path. Hunding's Rage.

That's not really the ability to put crit on gear. Those are set bonuses. It's different. It takes multiple pieces to gain small amounts.

"There's no gear customization available to raise critical strike"
1.like i said there is gear customization's available to raise critical strike.

"That's not really the ability to put crit on gear. Those are set bonuses."
2.really? so those set bonuses do give ability to you to choose not to take the extra critical hit chance, or take it.

3. tell me why we were arguing again?

Kego

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

I really wish Magelight just buffed crit' wholesale. This caster favoritism is ridiculous. Melee-centric players have gotta struggle and reconcile with harsh restrictions to itemization and choice just to break even, straight casters get 40% (of 50%) handed to them for a skill slot they don't even need because the other four are magicka-consuming IWIN buttons, ala Impulse.

What do you mean?
Melee-centric players get huge crit without wasting a skill slot.

Medium Armor = 21%
Bow for additional 5%
Dual Wield for additional 10% (Daggers)
Khajit Race gets 6% Weapon Crit

There for a Khajit Dual Wield Melee gets 37% Weapon Crit for free.

And where do you get your 40% Crit for a skill with casters? Magelight grants 10% or 20% Crit depending on the Morph.

Outside of PvE Magelight isn't even great. Only use is Stealth detect or the reduced DMG Taken out of stealth. Cause in PvP, good players are at least Crit Immun up to 50% anyway.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

ErykGrimm wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

It is a toggle power. All toggle powers stop after switching weapons if not on both bars. Does this mechanic confuse people?

You are asking to have the skill changed to a limited duration skill. Would having to burn resources every 20-30 seconds and a gcd be better? I imagine many would not want that as well.

That is not what I asked. I said "Should Magelight be altered in such a way that it will work on both bars without having to slot it twice? " I said nothing about making it have a duration or altering it's class type. How you are able to assemble so many unwritten words and claim that I said them is the only confusing thing that I can see.

Why should any one skill be allowed special permission to be toggled on while not slotted on the current action bar? There are not any other toggles to my knowledge that get the same exception. If one toggle is allowed to remain active while on the non active bar, all toggles should be treated the same. Which brings us back to beta. But of course, you want special treatment for one skill. tamanous, was just trying to give a logical implementation of what you seem to think is a good idea. Lol.

I have already commented on how I feel about other skills becoming altered as well. It should be clear by now that I do not wish to give one skill special treatment. I even mentioned that I would do another poll about all toggles. What Tamanous did was jump to conclusions and put words in my mouth; such things have nothing to do with logic.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Kego wrote: »

Outside of PvE Magelight isn't even great. Only use is Stealth detect or the reduced DMG Taken out of stealth. Cause in PvP, good players are at least Crit Immun up to 50% anyway.

Having known that the skill is 0% crit in PvP why do you believe it should cost 2 skill slots in pvp for 0% crit and -5% magkica?

Tarkit

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Such a powerful skill already and you want it off your skillbar for more OP dps? cmon man

GwaynLoki

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Armitas wrote: »

GwaynLoki wrote: »

As long as it directly counters NBs cloak, detects stealthed enemies and buffs your spell crit by 10/20% (and optionally reduces dmg from stealth attacks by 50%) I think requiring it to be slotted twice is ok for the low price of 5% max. magicka.

*Magelight is affected by stealth detection radius reduction so you still have to be right on them and far below the 12 meters. I have stood in the middle of an imperial gate with magelight on, watched a player dismount and stealth then in a few seconds I hear fighting behind me and it's that player. Magelight doesn't even cover half the width of an imperial gate entrance. Not to mention there are numerous threads saying it's detection is broken/useless.

*That 5% penatly is more than a mundus stone worth of magikca and 2 slots.

*1 piece of impenetrable armor is -10% crit.
* 2 piece of impenetrable armor is -20% crit,

* So in total Magelight is 6-7meteres of stealth detection, 0%crit, -120 magicka and 2 skills slots. If I want stealth detection I can pop a detect pot, it's far more useful and doesn't come at such a steep penalty.

Not everyone uses certain races or medium armor to reduce detection radius. Even with 7/7 medium you are looking at 21% detection radius decrease 0.21 x 12 = 2.52m. Khajiit get an additional 3m from their racials, only then your numbers are accurate. Mind me, we are talking about STEALTH reduction radius. For NB cloak - which isn't stealth but invisibility - the decreased detection radius does nothing. I can assure you that trying to disengage from meleeing someone using ML is a pain in the back.
Mage Light slotted grants you access to MG passives which means that you can increase your max magicka by 1%, same for recovery.
I am going to search for the threads that are claiming for it to be broken.
And yes, I wouldn't run Mage Light for crit increase in PvP. I would run it for crit heals as a healer. Doesn't mean that there aren't enough people around not using Impen or who are using Mage Light for crit increase.