Should Magelight take 2 skill slots?

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

GwaynLoki wrote: »

As long as it directly counters NBs cloak, detects stealthed enemies and buffs your spell crit by 10/20% (and optionally reduces dmg from stealth attacks by 50%) I think requiring it to be slotted twice is ok for the low price of 5% max. magicka.

*Magelight is affected by stealth detection radius reduction so you still have to be right on them and far below the 12 meters. I have stood in the middle of an imperial gate with magelight on, watched a player dismount and stealth then in a few seconds I hear fighting behind me and it's that player. Magelight doesn't even cover half the width of an imperial gate entrance. Not to mention there are numerous threads saying it's detection is broken/useless.

*That 5% penatly is more than a mundus stone worth of magikca and 2 slots.

*1 piece of impenetrable armor is -10% crit.
* 2 piece of impenetrable armor is -20% crit,

* So in total Magelight is 6-7meteres of stealth detection, 0%crit, -120 magicka and 2 skills slots. If I want stealth detection I can pop a detect pot, it's far more useful and doesn't come at such a steep penalty.

Not everyone uses certain races or medium armor to reduce detection radius. Even with 7/7 medium you are looking at 21% detection radius decrease 0.21 x 12 = 2.52m. Khajiit get an additional 3m from their racials, only then your numbers are accurate. Mind me, we are talking about STEALTH reduction radius. For NB cloak - which isn't stealth but invisibility - the decreased detection radius does nothing. I can assure you that trying to disengage from meleeing someone using ML is a pain in the back.
Mage Light slotted grants you access to MG passives which means that you can increase your max magicka by 1%, same for recovery.
I am going to search for the threads that are claiming for it to be broken.
And yes, I wouldn't run Mage Light for crit increase in PvP. I would run it for crit heals as a healer. Doesn't mean that there aren't enough people around not using Impen or who are using Mage Light for crit increase.

It is true that not everyone will maximize stealth to such a degree but it is reasonable that a stealth build will more likely include things that enhance a stealth build. If we are talking pvp then all crit is aside save healers which leaves us with our only value to mage light being that Magelight is effective in melee range.

The only skill counter to stealth is only effective at a tight melee range, it cost 2 skill slots, and somewhere over 100max magkica and -7-8damage. I can confirm that in melee range I can keep on a nightblade with magelight. However this melee range is easily overcome by any CC, snare, fear, root, knockback, knockdown, speed increase or even a dodge roll. On top of that he range is so small that I can hit a player with knockback at point blank range with ML on and have him leave the magelight range and disappear before he even hits the ground. I do not see how the only skill counter to stealth, that is reduced to such a minimal range, costs over 100max magkica, and is easily overcome should also cost 2 skill slots. Is it the fact that certain players want to see less magelight because it is a possible counter to their class or is there a good reason that it should cost 2 skill slots?

Stannum

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

I think it should be nerfed. May be it must be not switch skill but castable buff which you should recast every 20-30 sec.

Kego

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Armitas wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

Outside of PvE Magelight isn't even great. Only use is Stealth detect or the reduced DMG Taken out of stealth. Cause in PvP, good players are at least Crit Immun up to 50% anyway.

Having known that the skill is 0% crit in PvP why do you believe it should cost 2 skill slots in pvp for 0% crit and -5% magkica?

Because it is still a hard counter against the complete Nightblade defense. And I hope we will see some day more Enchants for PvP, that can compete with Impen.
(I'd like a Enchant that lowers AOE DMG taken by 5% for each Armor.)

F.e.: Crit Immunity 30%, AOE DMG taken reduced 20%.

Kego

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

.......

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Kego wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

Outside of PvE Magelight isn't even great. Only use is Stealth detect or the reduced DMG Taken out of stealth. Cause in PvP, good players are at least Crit Immun up to 50% anyway.

Having known that the skill is 0% crit in PvP why do you believe it should cost 2 skill slots in pvp for 0% crit and -5% magkica?

Because it is still a hard counter against the complete Nightblade defense. And I hope we will see some day more Enchants for PvP, that can compete with Impen.
(I'd like a Enchant that lowers AOE DMG by 5% for each Armor.)

Detect potions are a greater counter to the nightblade defense and yet they cost 0 skill points. I also listed 7 existing and simple counters to this nightblade counter. So what criteria do you use to determine how many skill slots a nightblade counter should require so that I can see if magelight fulfills that criteria?

GwaynLoki

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Armitas wrote: »

Is it the fact that certain players want to see less magelight because it is a possible counter to their class or is there a good reason that it should cost 2 skill slots?

For your first comment pls see @Kego , yes in the current state of NBs broken invisibility I would want to see less Mage Light but that's a side issue and doesn't influence my opinion on this subject. I can be subjective about things even if the outcome affects me negatively. I realise that making it one slot only would greatly appeal to people suffering from the current cheesy-Ambush/Snipe-from-stealth-and-instagib-tactic. Running the morph reducing dmg from stealth would indeed be a good counter.
As you have shown yourself, the skill is indeed of use in PvP. What I didn't add in my first post was the fact that the skill is also extremely useful in PvE for both, dmg and heal. Not to forget that you can use it in 1 slot and activate it upon weapon switching, reaping the benefits from the Might Of The Guild passive and gaining a 10% spell dmg increase on the next attack. In the current state of the game it's so useful that it has to have some limitations on it.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Is it the fact that certain players want to see less magelight because it is a possible counter to their class or is there a good reason that it should cost 2 skill slots?

For your first comment pls see @Kego , yes in the current state of NBs broken invisibility I would want to see less Mage Light but that's a side issue and doesn't influence my opinion on this subject. I can be subjective about things even if the outcome affects me negatively.
As you have shown yourself, the skill is indeed of use in PvP. What I didn't add in my first post was the fact that the skill is also extremely useful in PvE for both, dmg and heal. Not to forget that you can use it in 1 slot and activate it upon weapon switching, reaping the benefits from the Might Of The Guild passive and gaining a 10% spell dmg increase on the next attack. In the current state of the game it's so useful that it has to have some limitations on it.

I don't deny that it has an effect in pvp. Instead I disagree that the effect is of a value so great as to cost 2 skill slots. I believe that 1 skill should actually cost 1 skill slot. That huge two slot value of magelight is spoken of but remains to be seen.

The value of magelight is different for PvP and PvE and must be evaluated separate because that value is not simultaneous through the transition.

The ability to use magelight on a bar without magelight is an exploit and not worth serious mention on the topic. Magelight does not do any damage. To turn magelight on and off just to reap the "might of the guild" passive would be absurdly foolish for dps. You would be sacrificing a weave and the weaponswap time for a damageless skill to gain 20% more damage on the next weave.

Are you seriously telling me that weaving damageless magelight toggles for the 20% might of guild passive on the next weave is so useful that it has to have limitations on it? That isn't even worth doing on it's own, ever. If so that is the worst and most contrived use of magelight I have ever head of or thought possible.

Now if you just mean intentionally before a pull, so can any mage guild ability. That has nothing to do with casting magelight specifically. That has everything to do with a mage guild passive.

Jacques Berge

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

There's really a thread where people think magelight should get a buff? Magelight is easily the most overpowered move in the game... It gives you a whopping 20% spell crit, you can inexplicably sneak with it active, it costs you MAYBE 100 magic, and it completely nerfs an entire class. Tell me how does it make sense that your 100 magicka, no counter guild skill should overpower my 420 magicka class skill that lasts 3 second!!! I'm waiting for my skill that negates ranged spell casting, prevents healing, and bypasses blocking. Oh and these skills should be constant and also boost my stats. Magelight should get a serious nerf. A level 10 player with magelight pulls a v12 NB out of cloak... how the hell does that make any sense?!?!?! The skill is overpowered.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

There's really a thread where people think magelight should get a buff? Magelight is easily the most overpowered move in the game... It gives you a whopping 20% spell crit, you can inexplicably sneak with it active, it costs you MAYBE 100 magic, and it completely nerfs an entire class. Tell me how does it make sense that your 100 magicka, no counter guild skill should overpower my 420 magicka class skill that lasts 3 second!!! I'm waiting for my skill that negates ranged spell casting, prevents healing, and bypasses blocking. Oh and these skills should be constant and also boost my stats. Magelight should get a serious nerf. A level 10 player with magelight pulls a v12 NB out of cloak... how the hell does that make any sense?!?!?! The skill is overpowered.

Having 1 skill use 1 skill slot is not a buff, it's just good math. It gives you a whopping 20% crit that is easily made 0% with 2 pieces of armor. It does not completely nerf a class as I listed 7 simple counters that anyone should be able to handle.

Your counter for ranged spell casting - teleporting strike
Your counter for reducing healing - disease damage
Dealing with blockers is not a unique issue to nightblades.
Neither of these issues have anything to do with whether 1 skill should cost 1 skill slot or not.

The reason a level 10 player pulls a v12 nb out of stealth is because it has nothing to do with level it is a stealth detect radius. That radius is also countered by stealth detect radius reduction.

Jacques Berge

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

buffs

Armitas wrote: »

Your counter for ranged spell casting - teleporting strike
Your counter for reducing healing - disease damage
Dealing with blockers is not a unique issue to nightblades.
Neither of these issues have anything to do with whether 1 skill should cost 1 skill slot or not.

The reason a level 10 player pulls a v12 nb out of stealth is because it has nothing to do with level it is a stealth detect radius. That radius is also countered by stealth detect radius reduction.

None of these are constant effects that give buffs... Still waiting on an appropriate rebuttal. And yeah, I agree, the stealth mechanic is busted in its entirety. You just sound like another OP sorc crying cause you cant have your way... I know a very good counter to ML. Not sharing it on here... I'm sure if you knew you would just [snip] and say "no fair, I should be able to one hit players from across the map with my spell weaving. All classes are even, even though NB dont have a shield or in class ranged dps and their only decent damage mitigation is broken by a constant effect that buffs the players crit as well"

If you're having such a hard time in cyrodiil, maybe you should get some friends... or get better at the game... rather than [snip] about your OP skills not being OP enough... Thats what I did, I learn ways to fight every gay ass exploitative playstyle people come up with... And boy do I have a jolly good time... I've probably killed you in game... I always shoot for you ML toting [snip].... Magelight should take up two slots.... just like every other constant skill.

P.S. [snip] you zenimax, whats the point of confirming my age every damn time I go to your site if you're gonna sensor PG-13 swear words that are in your damn game?!?!?! Grow a pair!!!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

ErykGrimm

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

The thing is, it only takes 1 slot. If you choose to use it on both bars, that is your choice. Just like any other number of toggle skills. Perhaps instead of being bull headed and wanting to change rules for particular skills, you should suggest a seperate bar that can run in conjunction to your other skill bars that can have a few toggles on it. Just an idea.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

buffs

Armitas wrote: »

Your counter for ranged spell casting - teleporting strike
Your counter for reducing healing - disease damage
Dealing with blockers is not a unique issue to nightblades.
Neither of these issues have anything to do with whether 1 skill should cost 1 skill slot or not.

The reason a level 10 player pulls a v12 nb out of stealth is because it has nothing to do with level it is a stealth detect radius. That radius is also countered by stealth detect radius reduction.

None of these are constant effects that give buffs... Still waiting on an appropriate rebuttal. And yeah, I agree, the stealth mechanic is busted in its entirety. You just sound like another OP sorc crying cause you cant have your way... I know a very good counter to ML. Not sharing it on here... I'm sure if you knew you would just [snip] and say "no fair, I should be able to one hit players from across the map with my spell weaving. All classes are even, even though NB dont have a shield or in class ranged dps and their only decent damage mitigation is broken by a constant effect that buffs the players crit as well"

If you're having such a hard time in cyrodiil, maybe you should get some friends... or get better at the game... rather than [snip] about your OP skills not being OP enough... Thats what I did, I learn ways to fight every gay ass exploitative playstyle people come up with... And boy do I have a jolly good time... I've probably killed you in game... I always shoot for you ML toting ba5tards.... Magelight should take up two slots.... just like every other constant skill.

P.S. F you zenimax, whats the point of confirming my age every damn time I go to your site if you're gonna sensor PG-13 swear words that are in your damn game?!?!?! Grow a pair!!!

That was a truly astonishing post. I am not a sorc, never even played one. I can see I'm dealing with more buthurt than reason. To continue with you would be a waste of my time so agree to disagree.

Spudone

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

its a skill in the game therefore it should follow the rules that all other skills should follow

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Spudone wrote: »

its a skill in the game therefore it should follow the rules that all other skills should follow

To say that one particular skill should cost 1 skill slot is not to say that other skills should not also cost 1 skill slot. I did not think I needed to make a toggle/summon specific poll to talk about this toggle. To be clear I think 1 skill should cost 1 skill slot, regardless of that skill.

ErykGrimm wrote: »

The thing is, it only takes 1 slot. If you choose to use it on both bars, that is your choice. Just like any other number of toggle skills. Perhaps instead of being bull headed and wanting to change rules for particular skills, you should suggest a seperate bar that can run in conjunction to your other skill bars that can have a few toggles on it. Just an idea.

That is one of many possibilities. I do not list possibilities because it is not a part of the poll, it has nothing to due with "bull headedness".

I find it both more probable and more plausible that a single skill is designed to require a single slot for it's full effectiveness, rather than that they created toggle skills to require 2 slots if one wants to use 2action bars. It is more likely that this dual requirement is a result of the system rather than intent for several reasons.
* They removed the lines between weapons swaps by making them instant and thus giving us nearly a single 10bar system.
* All toggles are outside the weapon system, and thus irrelevant to weapon 1 and weapon 2.
* It seems highly implausible that they would require a toggle, that has nothing to do with weapons, to be restricted to a weapon.

So it's not a rule that I'm asking to be changed, but a flaw in the system.

Jacques Berge

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Magelight is already overpowered... does not need anything to make it any stronger. If you don't like it, dont use it

Cody

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

its a skill that can detect players using a (broken) invisibility spell, it should require some sacrifice to use.

PBpsy

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

buffs

Armitas wrote: »

Your counter for ranged spell casting - teleporting strike
Your counter for reducing healing - disease damage
Dealing with blockers is not a unique issue to nightblades.
Neither of these issues have anything to do with whether 1 skill should cost 1 skill slot or not.

The reason a level 10 player pulls a v12 nb out of stealth is because it has nothing to do with level it is a stealth detect radius. That radius is also countered by stealth detect radius reduction.

None of these are constant effects that give buffs... Still waiting on an appropriate rebuttal. And yeah, I agree, the stealth mechanic is busted in its entirety. You just sound like another OP sorc crying cause you cant have your way... I know a very good counter to ML. Not sharing it on here... I'm sure if you knew you would just [snip] and say "no fair, I should be able to one hit players from across the map with my spell weaving. All classes are even, even though NB dont have a shield or in class ranged dps and their only decent damage mitigation is broken by a constant effect that buffs the players crit as well"

If you're having such a hard time in cyrodiil, maybe you should get some friends... or get better at the game... rather than [snip] about your OP skills not being OP enough... Thats what I did, I learn ways to fight every gay ass exploitative playstyle people come up with... And boy do I have a jolly good time... I've probably killed you in game... I always shoot for you ML toting [snip].... Magelight should take up two slots.... just like every other constant skill.

P.S. [snip] you zenimax, whats the point of confirming my age every damn time I go to your site if you're gonna sensor PG-13 swear words that are in your damn game?!?!?! Grow a pair!!!

Yeah man NB certainly do not have 2 of the best projectile spells in the game as well as a ranged execute,we have no synergy with bows and we also have no access to Blur, Annulment and Immovable. You give us NBs a bad name scrub.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version.]

Kego

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

PBpsy wrote: »

Yeah man NB certainly do not have 2 of the best projectile spells in the game as well as a ranged execute,we have no synergy with bows and we also have no access to Blur, Annulment and Immovable. You give us NBs a bad name scrub.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version.]

Crystal Shards from Sorc ist the best Spell in the game. Projectile Spells are inferior to them, so don't know why you try to let them shine. Only good thing about Strife and Crippling Grasp is the Ultimate gain via Syphoning passive.

Annulment and Immovable are aviable for all classes, makes Blur stand out alone, are kinda weak defense skill with a low 15% chance of Miss chance for the enemy (not working against Boss NPC...).

I would give it away anytime for a Green Dragon Blood, Critical Surge or Blazing Shield.

Nightblade is an awesome class but we are the class with the weakest defenses of all, too.
If you want a Skillbar for true survival, than you are more or less forced to go Resto Staff, cause all of our Defense mechanics are broken or heal way to less to be helpfull in PvP, where you need more than 50HP heal ticks every 2-3 seconds.

Kego

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

.......

Jacques Berge

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Hahaha yeah ^... So F you Psy... You're nuts if you think the NB's damage mitigation is anywhere close to on par with the other classes.

GwaynLoki

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Armitas wrote: »

I don't deny that it has an effect in pvp. Instead I disagree that the effect is of a value so great as to cost 2 skill slots. I believe that 1 skill should actually cost 1 skill slot. That huge two slot value of magelight is spoken of but remains to be seen.

The value of magelight is different for PvP and PvE and must be evaluated separate because that value is not simultaneous through the transition.

The ability to use magelight on a bar without magelight is an exploit and not worth serious mention on the topic. Magelight does not do any damage. To turn magelight on and off just to reap the "might of the guild" passive would be absurdly foolish for dps. You would be sacrificing a weave and the weaponswap time for a damageless skill to gain 20% more damage on the next weave.

Are you seriously telling me that weaving damageless magelight toggles for the 20% might of guild passive on the next weave is so useful that it has to have limitations on it? That isn't even worth doing on it's own, ever. If so that is the worst and most contrived use of magelight I have ever head of or thought possible.

Now if you just mean intentionally before a pull, so can any mage guild ability. That has nothing to do with casting magelight specifically. That has everything to do with a mage guild passive.

No, the value of Mage Light has not to be determined separately for PvE and PvP. You can use the skill in both instances and it's useful in both, at least from my perspective for the reasons I gave. (If you indeed intent to have all similar skills take only one slot, there has to be done another huge balancing act to this new state of the game you will create. And yes, this is a consequence directly following from making ML on one bar working for the other bar also.)
Just like your example of the MG passives, these advantages are not to be discarded just because every MG skill can apply them. Fact is that the skill brings you these advantages in addition to the specific advantages only ML gives you.
I wasn't referring to use ML on one bar where you don't have it slotted, I was referring to using it on one bar only. Example: Travelling alone on horseback in Cyrodiil - Radiant Magelight is extremely useful there since you don't have to worry too much about stealth attacks.
Now let's look at it from the other side: You are sneaking around in Cyrodiil in full light/heavy armor. ML still allows you to detect stealthed players using full medium armor, you only need to get 2.52m closer to them than you need to get to players not using medium armor.
In another situation you might see a player running around solo and decide to strike at him from stealth with a ranged spell. So you activate ML for a nice boost to your first spell. If you decide to keep it toggled on during the fight, you can still reap the benefits of increased crit heals - or maybe even dmg - you can pull nearby NBs from stealth (other classes too) and invisibility and with Radiant Magelight you are protected from other players who are joining the fight to deal high dmg to you by opening from stealth.
And I nowhere said you should integrate GL into your dmg rotation.
I'll just leave it at this, I consider my point made. I think I showed you all the uses ML and it's morph have and if you still disagree about their usefulness, I think we just have to agree to disagree.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I don't deny that it has an effect in pvp. Instead I disagree that the effect is of a value so great as to cost 2 skill slots. I believe that 1 skill should actually cost 1 skill slot. That huge two slot value of magelight is spoken of but remains to be seen.

The value of magelight is different for PvP and PvE and must be evaluated separate because that value is not simultaneous through the transition.

The ability to use magelight on a bar without magelight is an exploit and not worth serious mention on the topic. Magelight does not do any damage. To turn magelight on and off just to reap the "might of the guild" passive would be absurdly foolish for dps. You would be sacrificing a weave and the weaponswap time for a damageless skill to gain 20% more damage on the next weave.

Are you seriously telling me that weaving damageless magelight toggles for the 20% might of guild passive on the next weave is so useful that it has to have limitations on it? That isn't even worth doing on it's own, ever. If so that is the worst and most contrived use of magelight I have ever head of or thought possible.

Now if you just mean intentionally before a pull, so can any mage guild ability. That has nothing to do with casting magelight specifically. That has everything to do with a mage guild passive.

No, the value of Mage Light has not to be determined separately for PvE and PvP. You can use the skill in both instances and it's useful in both, at least from my perspective for the reasons I gave. (If you indeed intent to have all similar skills take only one slot, there has to be done another huge balancing act to this new state of the game you will create. And yes, this is a consequence directly following from making ML on one bar working for the other bar also.)
Just like your example of the MG passives, these advantages are not to be discarded just because every MG skill can apply them. Fact is that the skill brings you these advantages in addition to the specific advantages only ML gives you.
I wasn't referring to use ML on one bar where you don't have it slotted, I was referring to using it on one bar only. Example: Travelling alone on horseback in Cyrodiil - Radiant Magelight is extremely useful there since you don't have to worry too much about stealth attacks.
Now let's look at it from the other side: You are sneaking around in Cyrodiil in full light/heavy armor. ML still allows you to detect stealthed players using full medium armor, you only need to get 2.52m closer to them than you need to get to players not using medium armor.
In another situation you might see a player running around solo and decide to strike at him from stealth with a ranged spell. So you activate ML for a nice boost to your first spell. If you decide to keep it toggled on during the fight, you can still reap the benefits of increased crit heals - or maybe even dmg - you can pull nearby NBs from stealth (other classes too) and invisibility and with Radiant Magelight you are protected from other players who are joining the fight to deal high dmg to you by opening from stealth.
And I nowhere said you should integrate GL into your dmg rotation.
I'll just leave it at this, I consider my point made. I think I showed you all the uses ML and it's morph have and if you still disagree about their usefulness, I think we just have to agree to disagree.

They do need to be discussed separately because they are exclusively different states of the same nature, just as water and ice. You can throw water at someone and they are wet, you can throw an ice cube at them and they will bruise.

You are arguing a gestalt property of the mageguild line. That is an emergent property requiring two parts, neither of which require or necessitate magelight.

I don't deny that ML allows a person to detect a stealthed player. What I want to see displayed is the reason why that minute radius, which is easily countered by 7 different things, and already costs a penalty should also arbitrarily require it be slotted for each weapon, even though the weapon has no relevance to the skill whatsoever.

What you have given me is a numerical shotgun of every strained point you can think of. I'm looking for a qualitative not quantitative line of reasoning. This is a measure of value, not addition. All whole apples are singular objects but some whole apples are worth 5 whole apples in value.

If that was your last post, then let me thank you for engaging the subject. The poll would be pointless if everyone just left their opinion. Because of our interaction the audience can better form their opinion as well as our own belief on the matter.

PBpsy

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Kego wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Yeah man NB certainly do not have 2 of the best projectile spells in the game as well as a ranged execute,we have no synergy with bows and we also have no access to Blur, Annulment and Immovable. You give us NBs a bad name scrub.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version.]

Crystal Shards from Sorc ist the best Spell in the game. Projectile Spells are inferior to them, so don't know why you try to let them shine. Only good thing about Strife and Crippling Grasp is the Ultimate gain via Syphoning passive.

Annulment and Immovable are aviable for all classes, makes Blur stand out alone, are kinda weak defense skill with a low 15% chance of Miss chance for the enemy (not working against Boss NPC...).

I would give it away anytime for a Green Dragon Blood, Critical Surge or Blazing Shield.

Nightblade is an awesome class but we are the class with the weakest defenses of all, too.
If you want a Skillbar for true survival, than you are more or less forced to go Resto Staff, cause all of our Defense mechanics are broken or heal way to less to be helpfull in PvP, where you need more than 50HP heal ticks every 2-3 seconds.

I was responding to a guy that said that we had no in class ranged dps which is utter false BS. My Swallow Soul hits from 400 to 700 in PVP and 500-800 in PVE and It is and instant cast, heals and can cancel a light attack. Crippling grasp is a pretty good dps boost a small stun and can be used very effectively to unhorse players. Impale is a ranged execute which is just great . Crystal Shards is channeled with only a chance of instant cast and the knock back and damage can be countered by Annulment which is available to anyone. NB has options and if you refuse to use them then it is your problem. Also ML is always a great skill for NBs to have from DPs to tanks to hybrid stam/magicka builds but yeah nerf it because one is to crappy at pvp to counter sorcs.

Davadin

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Considering it's a guild skill, NOT a weapon skill, it should NOT be turned off when I switch from one weapon to another. Like Class Skill (such as DK's Igneous Weapon).

Jacques Berge

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

Hahahahaha!!!! This thread is hysterical. Yes sir, I would like to have my cake and to eat it too, I'll have your cake as well, thank you very much. I'm sure this is the same group of people who think animation breaking is an integral part of the game. Too funny, nerds. Oh and to the guy with all the SAT words, cool your jets, it's a video game forum hahaha. I say ML shouldn't have to be slotted at all, you just cast it and then remove it from your bar and it last forever. Let's also increase the spell crit to 50% and increase the detection range by 30 ft. That sounds fair.

Stannum

Magelight should have to be slotted twice.

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

Considering it's a guild skill, NOT a weapon skill, it should NOT be turned off when I switch from one weapon to another. Like Class Skill (such as DK's Igneous Weapon).

In that case it should not be switched it should be activated for some amount of time. All class switched skills comes off when you swap bars if they are not placed on both.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

The core problem is that a single button is shared by two skills. The system has to make skill A work and not skill B even though they share the same button for activation. To keep that from happening the under layer is turned off leaving only that which can be attached to a player.

There are many ways to overcome the flaw or fix the system but I personally would not be opposed to a duration for this so long as the duration is superfluous. There are already world buffs that have a duration of 136 years so there is precedence for that. ("listening" buff). It would not be my preference though. I would rather it remain in it's nature and overcome the flaw.

(nice Argonian name btw)

Kungfu

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

You change Magelight and you need to change EVERY toggle skill.

See: Siphoning Attacks for NB. Sorry - but I think it would be slightly unfair to other classes if NB could slot toggle / buff abilities all on one bar and just use the other one as their attack bar.

Armitas

Magelight should only have to be slotted once, not twice.

Kungfu wrote: »

You change Magelight and you need to change EVERY toggle skill.

See: Siphoning Attacks for NB. Sorry - but I think it would be slightly unfair to other classes if NB could slot toggle / buff abilities all on one bar and just use the other one as their attack bar.

I whole heartedly agree. I believe all of our toggle skills that require two slots are a product of the system and not the intent of it.

Sorcs have to dual slot their summons and daedric armor as well because of the same flaw.

Once I feel this thread has run it's course I intend to make another generic poll regarding all of these skills and it's dual slot cost. I have gathered a lot of information and feel more satisfied with the concept having been able to debate this singular topic.

My current list is.
Unstable Familiar
Bound Armor
Winged Twilight
Mage Light
Siphoning Strikes

Have I missed any toggles? (not going to mention the DK one because that is more trouble than it's worth)

Tamanous

Armitas wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

It is a toggle power. All toggle powers stop after switching weapons if not on both bars. Does this mechanic confuse people?

You are asking to have the skill changed to a limited duration skill. Would having to burn resources every 20-30 seconds and a gcd be better? I imagine many would not want that as well.

That is not what I asked. I said "Should Magelight be altered in such a way that it will work on both bars without having to slot it twice? " I said nothing about making it have a duration or altering it's class type. How you are able to assemble so many unwritten words and claim that I said them is the only confusing thing that I can see.

Yes you are. The ONLY skills that continue to work after you swap bars are limited duration skills that have a cost up front. You are talking about a toggle power. ALL toggle powers are required to be on both bars in order to maintain that ability when swapping. These are the rules regardless of their name and effect.

Therefore, if you are asking for a toggle ability to work while swapping bars but only want that skill to exist on one bar you are directly asking to have that ability changed to a limited duration, up front resource ability. It cannot exist any other way whether you understand how the mechanics work or not.