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Zerg trains are ruining this game. It's sad SAD
briandivisionb16_ESO
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Remove AOE caps or something @eso_brianwheeler
If your group is bigger than 6 members gain 75% damage reduction.
Write this on the back of your box and see how many sales you get!
You won't get any new PvP players until this archaic AoE crap is fixed.
I for one won't resub until:
1.) You fix lag.
2.) You remove AOE caps we voted against.
3.) 12 months have passed (this is how long we've waited for you to 'get with it')[/b]
16
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »How about a change Cyrodiil so that characters have collision?
Would empower a lot of griefing such as blocking entrances, or doors or skyshards. Doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
Removing the AoE caps however, now that would add value to a lot of other spells. That would increase the skill level involved.
Within; Without.3 -
FunkheaD✭✭✭Age of Conan had it's flaws, but it had full character collision. If a character was blocking you, all you had to do was enter a crouch mode that would allow you to push through this character. The downside was that in this mode your damage resistances were effectively removed.
This meant that people didn't use it in PvP, but if players were blocking you in town, then you could simply 'squeeze through'.
It worked quite well tbh...8 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »How about a change Cyrodiil so that characters have collision?
Would empower a lot of griefing such as blocking entrances, or doors or skyshards. Doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
Removing the AoE caps however, now that would add value to a lot of other spells. That would increase the skill level involved.
If people want to make up that AoE caps are the solution atleast dont mention skill , it is ridiculous.
By removing the AoE cap all you will make is people spamming AoE to take out the most they can.
There is no more skill involved in spamming 1 skill so that 1 guy with top gear and all the rest can take 20 , than in the current situation.
All that changes is that is we go back to the days where people will come here complain one guys is killing said 20 , like it happened at first in case people forgot."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor4 -
The_Drexill✭✭✭✭WTB AoE CC instead. Just give us an AoE mez!
Brandizzle - NB
Drexill The Unbreakable - Sorc
For teh covenant.2 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »How about a change Cyrodiil so that characters have collision?
Yea...insightful request lordrichter! This MMO's PvE side used to be able to run through the Npc baddies too...but then ZOS went and changed it. Here let me see, oh yea here we go. It apparently was a frequently requested player feature! (*A request ZOS responded to BEFORE live launch even!)
"...we’ve added player collision with NPCs, which means your character will no longer be able to run through NPC enemies. This is a frequently requested feature that we think succeeds in making melee combat more visceral and exciting!" --- from ESO ROAD AHEAD, 3.14.2014 (*Fourth paragraph down.)
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/03/14/eso-road-ahead
Edited by Anastasia on 18 August 2014 05:421 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »By removing the AoE cap all you will make is people spamming AoE to take out the most they can.
They are doing that anyway, even now. Heck they are doing it even in 1v1. I don't think removing aoe caps would change much about this particular aspect of the game.
Edited by Sharee on 18 August 2014 06:050 -
Mendoze✭✭✭If devs would only change immovable to require 5 pieces heavy armor, I couldn't care less about trains. If pugs/small groups could just CC those last in the train the trains would just die out. Currently those trains are really hard to break because they are CC immune most of the time.8 -
bitaken✭✭✭✭✭If devs would only change immovable to require 5 pieces heavy armor, I couldn't care less about trains. If pugs/small groups could just CC those last in the train the trains would just die out. Currently those trains are really hard to break because they are CC immune most of the time.
This is an accurate assessment. We have gotten fairly strong with being able to identify when the organized zergballs are weakest and susceptible to CC, but if they were forced to wear 5 heavy to use immovable it would solve the problem entirely.PvP Lead Officer for Einherjar
Member of Einherjar and associated guilds since 2001
A multi Gaming community of players.4 -
synnerman✭✭✭✭Guys will some of you actually read some of the AoE cap discussions. The cap protects the blob because only six of them are hit at a time and the heals and synergies bring those 6 back up very quickly.
With no cap the damage would hit all of the blob and they have 2 choices ...Die in a blob or spread out.5 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys will some of you actually read some of the AoE cap discussions. The cap protects the blob because only six of them are hit at a time and the heals and synergies bring those 6 back up very quickly.
With no cap the damage would hit all of the blob and they have 2 choices ...Die in a blob or spread out.
Except for if you remove the cap, the pure damage output all around said blob is going to be so high all of the time that no one can actually get in there to hit them at all.
People dont think about this part. You want to walk into a stack of 24 aoes that WILL all hit you as you go in?
It is too late to save zergbusting in this game. It has been too late for about three months. You either bring a bigger gun or you sit on the edges, because now that the playstyle is so deeply ingrained into people, it isnt going to change.
All removing the caps will do is make the ball stronger. But keep lying to yourself thinking your 12 man bust group is going to do anything beyond die instantly the moment they jump in if the caps are removed.Edited by Rylana on 18 August 2014 11:23@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys will some of you actually read some of the AoE cap discussions. The cap protects the blob because only six of them are hit at a time and the heals and synergies bring those 6 back up very quickly.
With no cap the damage would hit all of the blob and they have 2 choices ...Die in a blob or spread out.
I once proposed that if the damage has to be capped at six for technical reasons, then ZOS should take the total damage the AOE would do to all the people in the AOE if there was no cap, divide it by six, and apply it to those six players affected.
Ex: I have an AOE that does 100 damage. I hit a zerg of 100 people. If there was no cap, i would do 100*100=10.000 damage. 10.000 divided by six is 1666. Now take six random people in the zerg and hit each for 1666 damage.
This keeps the cap intact, but still forces people to spread or risk being hit for ridiculous amounts of damage.Edited by Sharee on 18 August 2014 11:242 -
synnerman✭✭✭✭Guys will some of you actually read some of the AoE cap discussions. The cap protects the blob because only six of them are hit at a time and the heals and synergies bring those 6 back up very quickly.
With no cap the damage would hit all of the blob and they have 2 choices ...Die in a blob or spread out.
Except for if you remove the cap, the pure damage output all around said blob is going to be so high all of the time that no one can actually get in there to hit them at all.
People dont think about this part. You want to walk into a stack of 24 aoes that WILL all hit you as you go in?
Yes I do but currently its swayed in the way of the zergball.... a few well placed meatbags and firepots and players going in will equalize things. They blob up because the cap protects them, its not rocket science.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Except for if you remove the cap, the pure damage output all around said blob is going to be so high all of the time that no one can actually get in there to hit them at all.
People dont think about this part. You want to walk into a stack of 24 aoes that WILL all hit you as you go in?
Ehm... that is how it works now?
AOE cap does not limit the number of people who can hit you at once. It only limits how many targets a single aoe spell can hit.
If you alone walk into a blob of 20 players who use pulsar at once, you will insta die. Correct me if i am wrong?
Edited by Sharee on 18 August 2014 11:310 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
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Except for if you remove the cap, the pure damage output all around said blob is going to be so high all of the time that no one can actually get in there to hit them at all.
People dont think about this part. You want to walk into a stack of 24 aoes that WILL all hit you as you go in?
Ehm... that is how it works now?
AOE cap does not limit the number of people who can hit you at once. It only limits how many targets a single aoe spell can hit.
If you alone walk into a blob of 20 players who use pulsar at once, you will insta die. Correct me if i am wrong?
Depends on the size of the group right now. The more people you have, the less damage your group takes because of the cap.
if you remove the cap, you could take 40 people up against that zerg ball and every one of them will vaporize instantly when they walk in.
In other words, instead of a few people getting instantly vaped by the 24 pulsars, every single member of the group is going to take the damage of those 24 pulsars.
Removing the aoe cap will favor the established aoe DPS groups and nothing more. It wont make busting them easier, it will make it worse.Edited by Rylana on 18 August 2014 11:35@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin3 -
maanemannSoul ShrivenAge of Conan had it's flaws, but it had full character collision. If a character was blocking you, all you had to do was enter a crouch mode that would allow you to push through this character. The downside was that in this mode your damage resistances were effectively removed.
This meant that people didn't use it in PvP, but if players were blocking you in town, then you could simply 'squeeze through'.
It worked quite well tbh...
Well put and it sure did!
Also collision detection added roles to pvp like protectiing healers, formations etc.
Right now in TESO as a NB archer, melee etc. it is hard to find a role except just dpsing in PvP while healer and aoers are clearly defined.0 -
synnerman✭✭✭✭Rylana , try looking up and reading my answer. It will weaken the blobs capability to outheal the capped damage on them and even up the fight. at the moment its in favour of the blob ...that's why they do it.0
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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Except for if you remove the cap, the pure damage output all around said blob is going to be so high all of the time that no one can actually get in there to hit them at all.
People dont think about this part. You want to walk into a stack of 24 aoes that WILL all hit you as you go in?
Ehm... that is how it works now?
AOE cap does not limit the number of people who can hit you at once. It only limits how many targets a single aoe spell can hit.
If you alone walk into a blob of 20 players who use pulsar at once, you will insta die. Correct me if i am wrong?
Depends on the size of the group right now. The more people you have, the less damage your group takes because of the cap.
if you remove the cap, you could take 40 people up against that zerg ball and every one of them will vaporize instantly when they walk in.
That is only an issue if you use a zerg to combat a zerg. You are basically saying that the proximity of other players would no longer protect you from enemy aoe, but that's the whole point of the change.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm sorry, but anyone looking at this from the outside (me) would plainly see that the problem is not AOE caps, but the zergball.
These stacks of death can only be countered by a larger stack of death, and only if AOE caps are retained.
Removing AOE damage caps does not do anything to the zergball stack of death because the AOE cap is removed for them, too. They can bombard anyone who approaches, even a larger stack of death, as soon as they get in range. A battle between two stacks of death basically turns into a duel, the first one to get the accurate shot off wins.
The only way to fix them is to make it so that they cannot happen.
Make it so that friendly player forces collide, then there is actually no need for any AOE cap. The AOE cap exists only to prevent one character from taking out 100 characters. If you can only get a limited number characters into the area of effect, an AOE cap becomes irrelevant.The_Drexill wrote: »WTB AoE CC instead. Just give us an AoE mez!
This is really the only alternative, a lesser one. Keep AOE caps on damage and healing spells, but make AOE CC spells with no cap. This will allow one player to stop the zerg, but not kill it. As long as all, or part, of the stack of death is stunned, other attackers can pummel it. Keep AOE CC up as much as possible. As long as the attacking force is a surrounding force and not a zerg ball, it will be hard for the the zergball to counter and they will be better off being outside.
Of course, AOE CC requires AOE immunity and we are back where we started, so this is why I call it a lesser alternative.
Edited by Elsonso on 18 August 2014 12:412 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat LeadMoved this thread to Combat & Skill Lines.Wheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead2 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Age of Conan had it's flaws, but it had full character collision. If a character was blocking you, all you had to do was enter a crouch mode that would allow you to push through this character. The downside was that in this mode your damage resistances were effectively removed.
This meant that people didn't use it in PvP, but if players were blocking you in town, then you could simply 'squeeze through'.
It worked quite well tbh...
It did, like you said AoC had its problem (so so many problems) but this was well done.1 -
Jaxom✭✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Moved this thread to Combat & Skill Lines.
I think this is more appropriate under the Alliance War section. The discussion isnt about the skills specifically more the tactic and how it affects Cyrodiil.1 -
Kego✭✭✭✭How about a new Armor Trait:
Reduce AOE DMG taken from Players by 5% (White 1%, Green 2%, Blue 3%, Purple 4%, Yellow 5%) .
That would bring down the AOE DMG in PvP and Impen wouldn't be the only Trait that is used in PvP Armor.Edited by Kego on 18 August 2014 15:110 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭+1 for collision, people should be able to block access to things.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series4 -
Reilech✭✭✭There are some problem with either decision:
without AoE-Cap: Instantdeaths with stacked AoE. Most AoEs in ESO are'nt evadable. The AoE-skills are made to be dodged -> you need to survive until break/rolling dodge.
with AoE-Cap: poor cuddle-tactics -> bad for fps, because only number matters
my sugestion: no AoE-Cap, but only 1 AoE of same type is doing damage. -> no simple AoE-Stacks.1 -
semp3rfi✭✭✭Easy way to stop the aoe trend. Give all aoes a cast time that also reduces move speed while casting. Like biting jabs. Being so mobile has let it get out of hand. Take that away then aoe zergs will be crawling along6
