The Elder Mages online

Kego

@Ninnghizhidda
That is just stupid what you are telling.

The 5 Skillbar was introduced to the game, cause else you could never balance the Skills in this Game, if every one could use any Skill, any time. These 5 Skills + 1 Ultimate makes this Game more tactical and more like a TGC. You chose your Skills and crush other Builds, but as well is your Build vurnuble to others as well.

And Stamina Builds are NOT weak in every aspekt. Currently they suck only for ONE Content Part and these are Trails. That is the part where ZOS have to take a look at for Patch 1.4 and ofc. Magicka Builds needs some Nerfs to stupid Design decisions, like +10% overall DMG at Resto Staff or Elemental Drain, that returns Magicka after an Attack. Change this and DPS will change for sure.

Azraeel

Two suggestions would go a long way with stamina builds:
1- They should separate CC break from the stamina bar. Make a new bar that is only used for breaking CC, that has a certain way of regenerating.
2- Increase the way melee weapons fills stamina. Maybe make heavy attacks fills stamina a little.

The reason magicka is more powerful than stamina isn't because of the damage output, but the ability to constantly use skills without running out of magicka, this is done by simply using Restoration staff. There should be something similar that brings in a constant stamina intake. Maybe one handed weapons?

Ninnghizhidda

Azraeel wrote: »

Two suggestions would go a long way with stamina builds:
1- They should separate CC break from the stamina bar. Make a new bar that is only used for breaking CC, that has a certain way of regenerating.
2- Increase the way melee weapons fills stamina. Maybe make heavy attacks fills stamina a little.

The reason magicka is more powerful than stamina isn't because of the damage output, but the ability to constantly use skills without running out of magicka, this is done by simply using Restoration staff. There should be something similar that brings in a constant stamina intake. Maybe one handed weapons?

I certainly agree that Stamina needs a way to refill just like Magicka does, since the resource has to be used for (some) skills and actions.

It is hard to understand why they designed it that way. Take for example Tera. There you just have Mana, and everyone uses that resource for every skill, be it "magic" or melee or whatever. Of course, different classes do have different amounts of available Mana, and the "caster" classes have more than the others.

The big difference though is, that every class has ways to quickly refill their Mana pool. Even melee classes, because the weapons they use (or most of them) have an ability to greatly restore Mana with every hit (normal attacks). So what you do, between your skills you throw one or two normal hits, to replenish your Mana resources. Plus, there are of course pots and "caster" skills that replenish large amounts of mana.

That way, every class is viable, and you would need to skill spam like a maniac to completely run out of Mana. With a good rotation of skills though, and the method mentioned above, hardly anyone, even the most hardcore melee fighter, ever stands there unable to do anything but basic lousy attacks, which is the typical case in ESO, after a few seconds or skills used, that totally drain your Stamina, no matter what.

Until Zeni devs find a way to stop this idiotic situation once and for all, the game will remain what it is. A heavily biased "mage's" paradise, screw everyone else.

CapuchinSeven

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

So what you're saying is crit is important and helping to further my point which you said was fail? Circle logic or not if crit wasn't important in pvp no one would have impenetrable trait on their armor. We can have conversations where you try to directly insult me all day but in your post you admitted people stack the impen trait so players stack more crit therefore validating my argument.

a ) No one insulted you. Your point was judged, not you.

b ) No, you're still wrong. His words were, "crit isn't as important". He didn't say it's useless, he said it isn't as important.

Crit will reap you a ton of extra damage in PVE and the sky is the limit, in PVP it's far less effective at gaining you damage and you're far better off going for raw damage. He didn't say it was useless he said it wasn't as important.

Your point and your follow up points are all wrong. In a trade off between raw damage and more crit, in PVP it's better to take the raw damage as well as sustainability.

Crit will not reliability net you more damage in PVP and at a point, it becomes less valuable, you can't stack enough crit for it to be enough to reliability boost your damage vs anyone that knows how to make their armour. In PVE without a cap it reaps you a ton of damage.

Atreyu wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

Crit not important in pvp? I guess that's why no one runs impenetrable trait on armor right? Crack in me up you are.

yes but you know what's the best part?

We use impenetrable to negate crit.

but then most good pvpers spec around non-crit based specs.

so basically we wear impenetrable because otherwise we would spec for crit, but we actually don't.

Wat.

This. It's as I said, it's circular crit isn't as important in PVP because everyone stacks impenetrable, if impenetrable went away everyone would start stacking crit rather than raw damage.

khele23eb17_ESO

Kego wrote: »

@Ninnghizhidda
That is just stupid what you are telling.

The 5 Skillbar was introduced to the game, cause else you could never balance the Skills in this Game, if every one could use any Skill, any time. These 5 Skills + 1 Ultimate makes this Game more tactical and more like a TGC. You chose your Skills and crush other Builds, but as well is your Build vurnuble to others as well.

Thats the theory behind LAS games... thing is I dont really see it in ESO. The system's a bit too shallow to allow specialized builds and counter builds. To this point I think the one game that got LAS right was Guild Wars 1. Hundreds of skills, unbalanced as hell in theory but there were dozens of highly specialized builds that countered eachother. There was cross skill synergy and cross character synergy. For group play you didnt just design your own build, you designed your group's build as a whole.

And Stamina Builds are NOT weak in every aspekt. Currently they suck only for ONE Content Part and these are Trails. That is the part where ZOS have to take a look at for Patch 1.4 and ofc. Magicka Builds needs some Nerfs to stupid Design decisions, like +10% overall DMG at Resto Staff or Elemental Drain, that returns Magicka after an Attack. Change this and DPS will change for sure.

Id say stamina builds are weak in multiple aspects but where it becomes the most apparent is 1 part of the game - trials. It was just as visible in VR content tho, before ZOS nerfed the difficulty.

moxiesauce

They just need better scaling to weapon dmg so swings hit harder when your way overcharged, and both DW and 2h should have passives that can proc stamina on hit like evil hunter. Then boom you can raid with a stamina build. Then obviously like Nick Konkle stated, they are buffing the damage that stamina abilities do. In addition to this I'd like to see a revamp to the uppercut morph making it instant and removing the knock back, instead of reducing damage. Momentum should also be more group oriented like elemental drain. DW and bow could have similar changes done. The problem is in the weapons not the classes.

*I have a feeling it won't truly be balanced until they released DBH/TG & spellcrafting.

Kego

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

Think I would like to see it more on Arrow Spray, cause Venom Arrow has already a great Utility and Poison Injection should get a normal finisher or the DoT of Poison needs to be massive buffed. Cause atm, that Morph is just useless.

khele23eb17_ESO

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

moxiesauce

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

khele23eb17_ESO

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

Theyre not splitting skills for PvE/PvP. Instead of straight up buffing damage they could let the poison dot stack several times tho.

moxiesauce

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

Theyre not splitting skills for PvE/PvP. Instead of straight up buffing damage they could let the poison dot stack several times tho.

It wouldn't be splitting skills, just scaling similar to how your stats already scale as you enter Cyrodiil.

khele23eb17_ESO

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

Theyre not splitting skills for PvE/PvP. Instead of straight up buffing damage they could let the poison dot stack several times tho.

It wouldn't be splitting skills, just scaling similar to how your stats already scale as you enter Cyrodiil.

It would be a precedent. If they individually tweaked one skill for pvp theyd have to tweak others too. Thats a lot of work.

Galrukh

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

Theyre not splitting skills for PvE/PvP. Instead of straight up buffing damage they could let the poison dot stack several times tho.

It wouldn't be splitting skills, just scaling similar to how your stats already scale as you enter Cyrodiil.

It would be a precedent. If they individually tweaked one skill for pvp theyd have to tweak others too. Thats a lot of work.

A lot of work yes but so much worth it compared to the mess that stamina builds/weapon builds face in pvp atm, they are so underpowered compared to the magicka builds it is not funny.
Give me an easy way to regain my stamina and double my light attack/heavy attack damage for melee weapons, oh and do something about Light Armor because it is ridiculous that you can ignore all spell resistance in the game just by having a passive.

Kego

Where would it buff the Burst? Especially with Arrow Spray an Cone AOE Skill with 20y?

You will never ever use that Skill in PvP during Burst DMG.

khele23eb17_ESO

Galrukh wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

Theyre not splitting skills for PvE/PvP. Instead of straight up buffing damage they could let the poison dot stack several times tho.

It wouldn't be splitting skills, just scaling similar to how your stats already scale as you enter Cyrodiil.

It would be a precedent. If they individually tweaked one skill for pvp theyd have to tweak others too. Thats a lot of work.

A lot of work yes but so much worth it compared to the mess that stamina builds/weapon builds face in pvp atm, they are so underpowered compared to the magicka builds it is not funny.
Give me an easy way to regain my stamina and double my light attack/heavy attack damage for melee weapons, oh and do something about Light Armor because it is ridiculous that you can ignore all spell resistance in the game just by having a passive.

I see your point but... Well, if they did decide to put in a lot of work to fix this, Id rather have a solution that simplifies and balances things at the very core of the system instead of complicating things by adding new band-aid mechanics on top of the flawed ones. Keep the blue bar and green bar, rename one Power the other Endurance (or keep Stamina, whatever). Move all skills to Power and make them scale using the same coeficients. Keep the dodge/block/sprint/cc break with the green Endurance bar.

moxiesauce

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

Theyre not splitting skills for PvE/PvP. Instead of straight up buffing damage they could let the poison dot stack several times tho.

It wouldn't be splitting skills, just scaling similar to how your stats already scale as you enter Cyrodiil.

It would be a precedent. If they individually tweaked one skill for pvp theyd have to tweak others too. Thats a lot of work.

That's a lot of work? really? I thought we paid a sub for this game.

khele23eb17_ESO

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

For Bows I could imagine a DMG Buff for Poison Arrow or Arrow Spray where it's Poison makes the target more frial to pys. Attacks. Like 10% more DMG for every Party Member that uses phys. DMG as long as the DoT Ticks.

That would buff burst tho and the PvP people would cry nerf.

Just have it scale differently for PvP.

Theyre not splitting skills for PvE/PvP. Instead of straight up buffing damage they could let the poison dot stack several times tho.

It wouldn't be splitting skills, just scaling similar to how your stats already scale as you enter Cyrodiil.

It would be a precedent. If they individually tweaked one skill for pvp theyd have to tweak others too. Thats a lot of work.

That's a lot of work? really? I thought we paid a sub for this game.

Im not saying I dont want them to work for their money Im saying I dont think this solution is likely to happen. Also, if they were to make an overhaul of this scale Id rather see something like I described in the post above yours. A change that fixes stuff from the ground up and provides a balanced base for future development (this is something I dont consider likely to happen either). Thats just my opinion tho.