The Elder Mages online

Teargrants

Tamanous wrote: »

Kirsika wrote: »

You would really unsubscribe over one passive skill (which mind you isn't causing broken mechanics like vampire pasives used to) not being "flat out nerfed"?

Umadbro?

I was only speaking of ONE EXAMPLE. Every other single person in the game knows of all the many reasons why light armor + staff is currently the only choice for maximum performance for your character ( it isn't even close ). I have posted this in previous threads. Resto staff is being used as a DPS weapon by min/maxers. This is absurd. I noticed it's power the very first day I ever played this game in beta and continued to play light armor + resto for 4 beta weekends and into release until I got sick of how this game was turning into a mage only game. It still is a mage only game despite the changes SO I NOW POINT OUT THE MAJOR REASON FOR IT that ZOS appears to miss each patch.

I need not repeat them all reasons why light armor + resto is OP for the wrong reasons ... except for you. Would you like to me to link the hundreds of threads on this topic since beta forums? Others seem to be able to keep caught up on the subject but perhaps I can assist you further to avoid these pointless posts.

Thanks for answering my question.

Sorry that I seem to have hurt your feelings, but there's no need to insinuate that I'm some kind of moron for pointing out your hyperbole. Please do show me where in your post you indicated you were 'speaking of one example', cuz this is what I see:

Tamanous wrote: »

If ZOS does not flat out nerf the Cycle of Life passive I am gone in the near future.

Sounds pretty specific and ridiculous to me, considering other issues - FPS bug, mass crashing, bow animation bug, dmg increase over time bug, aoe cap, et al.

Now before you try putting words in my mouth again, how about you tell me where in my post I say light armor/resto is not OP? Here's a hint, what I said was that cycle of life isn't a broken mechanic like vampire passive (60% ultimate reduction as you recall) was which let people have 0 cost bat swarm.

Cycle of life is quite a bit down the list of things that makes cloth/staff builds 'OP'. 21% cost reduction, 42% spell pen, resto heavy atk restoring magica & stamina triple dipping would come 1st in my book.

AoEnwyr

I had a feeling this might have been posted by a DK. How many MMO's over the years have had over powered heavy armour wearing sword swingers? Now here is a game that finally tries to balance the field with decent casters and people who traditionally go for DK type classes are forced to actually use some skill instead of steam rolling over everyone.

What logic leads you to think that someone with heavy armour and a sword MUST be more damaging than a mage? Is it because that how it's always been? Maybe its time for something new

moxiesauce

UlanX wrote: »

I had a feeling this might have been posted by a DK. How many MMO's over the years have had over powered heavy armour wearing sword swingers? Now here is a game that finally tries to balance the field with decent casters and people who traditionally go for DK type classes are forced to actually use some skill instead of steam rolling over everyone.

What logic leads you to think that someone with heavy armour and a sword MUST be more damaging than a mage? Is it because that how it's always been? Maybe its time for something new

I don't believe people that wear heavy armor should be able to pull the type of DPS a person in medium/light should, and it's true due to lack of crit. I'm simply saying the weapons themselves suck. Medium and light should be the DPS builds, light also being healer, medium also being good at stealth. I haven't tested out DW too much but I know it's not much better than 2 hander if at all. They simply need to balance the weapons, every one except resto staff/S&B should be a very viable choice for putting out dmg in a group setting. There are useless passives/morphs in the 2 hand tree that need to be changed, and I'm sure the same can go for DW. They seem to have a problem balancing PvP and PvE and making it work for both, but the solution to that is simply in the scaling you get going into PvP. Fix PvE, then adjust the scaling of abilities for PvP. Other than that healing is fine and tanking is fine. Gear changes from update 3 was only a small step in the right direction.

Cody

i feel you. My NB uses a bow. i WILL NOT use a staff. i wont do it. no matter how much ZOS tries to get me to, i wont do it.

moxiesauce

NookyZooky wrote: »

i feel you. My NB uses a bow. i WILL NOT use a staff. i wont do it. no matter how much ZOS tries to get me to, i wont do it.

Lol, that's the same reason why I'm here b****ing on the forums.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

moxiesauce wrote: »

I don't believe people that wear heavy armor should be able to pull the type of DPS a person in medium/light should, and it's true due to lack of crit. I'm simply saying the weapons themselves suck. Medium and light should be the DPS builds, light also being healer, medium also being good at stealth. I haven't tested out DW too much but I know it's not much better than 2 hander if at all. They simply need to balance the weapons, every one except resto staff/S&B should be a very viable choice for putting out dmg in a group setting. There are useless passives/morphs in the 2 hand tree that need to be changed, and I'm sure the same can go for DW. They seem to have a problem balancing PvP and PvE and making it work for both, but the solution to that is simply in the scaling you get going into PvP. Fix PvE, then adjust the scaling of abilities for PvP. Other than that healing is fine and tanking is fine. Gear changes from update 3 was only a small step in the right direction.

Why not? Light and Medium armor can tank, and dps just fine..

Instead of re-balancing so heavy provides a definitive advantage for tanking, why not just allow it to be worn by melee dps and make it as competitive?

There is no reason the play style can't be differentiated, i.e. make it a heavy weapon damage build instead of crit and make. I'd much rather they expanded on the number of viable choices rather than limiting them, it is still an Elder Scrolls game after all.

Cody

i want to say something about the 2h skill line, since we are talking about stamina weapons

this skill line needs a block breaker!!! half of this skill line has awful abilities. how about putting a block breaker in it somewhere?? increase the damage two handed weapons do, and put a block breaker in it. im tired of having this giant sword, only for it to be blocked the entire battle:(

moxiesauce

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

I don't believe people that wear heavy armor should be able to pull the type of DPS a person in medium/light should, and it's true due to lack of crit. I'm simply saying the weapons themselves suck. Medium and light should be the DPS builds, light also being healer, medium also being good at stealth. I haven't tested out DW too much but I know it's not much better than 2 hander if at all. They simply need to balance the weapons, every one except resto staff/S&B should be a very viable choice for putting out dmg in a group setting. There are useless passives/morphs in the 2 hand tree that need to be changed, and I'm sure the same can go for DW. They seem to have a problem balancing PvP and PvE and making it work for both, but the solution to that is simply in the scaling you get going into PvP. Fix PvE, then adjust the scaling of abilities for PvP. Other than that healing is fine and tanking is fine. Gear changes from update 3 was only a small step in the right direction.

Why not? Light and Medium armor can tank, and dps just fine..

Instead of re-balancing so heavy provides a definitive advantage for tanking, why not just allow it to be worn by melee dps and make it as competitive?

There is no reason the play style can't be differentiated, i.e. make it a heavy weapon damage build instead of crit and make. I'd much rather they expanded on the number of viable choices rather than limiting them, it is still an Elder Scrolls game after all.

true... but crit is where it's at for PvE DPS, heavy gives 0 crit. It gives weapon dmg, but weapon dmg is so terrible it's not even funny. As much as I'd like to wear full armor and put out crazy amounts of dmg I just think it would be better if they pushed heavy more for PvP, where crit isn't as important, and for tanking.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

moxiesauce wrote: »

true... but crit is where it's at for PvE DPS, heavy gives 0 crit. It gives weapon dmg, but weapon dmg is so terrible it's not even funny. As much as I'd like to wear full armor and put out crazy amounts of dmg I just think it would be better if they pushed heavy more for PvP, where crit isn't as important, and for tanking.

Yeah it is right now. No reason it still has to be in the future though since they're re-balancing the whole thing anyway. Boost the crap out of the weapon damage or give one of the passives some kind of synergy with 2h/dw abilities.

moxiesauce

NookyZooky wrote: »

i want to say something about the 2h skill line, since we are talking about stamina weapons

this skill line needs a block breaker!!! half of this skill line has awful abilities. how about putting a block breaker in it somewhere?? increase the damage two handed weapons do, and put a block breaker in it. im tired of having this giant sword, only for it to be blocked the entire battle:(

good idea, Should make it a passive, arcane fighter is 100% useless and a waste of skill points, they could have a passive that bypasses up 50% of a block, put a 5 second CD on it.

*make it real nice and have it also give some minor armor pen.*

moxiesauce

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

true... but crit is where it's at for PvE DPS, heavy gives 0 crit. It gives weapon dmg, but weapon dmg is so terrible it's not even funny. As much as I'd like to wear full armor and put out crazy amounts of dmg I just think it would be better if they pushed heavy more for PvP, where crit isn't as important, and for tanking.

Yeah it is right now. No reason it still has to be in the future though since they're re-balancing the whole thing anyway. Boost the crap out of the weapon damage or give one of the passives some kind of synergy with 2h/dw abilities.

Would be nice, I can only see it if they ended up adding more passives to all the tree's then what they have now.

Cody

moxiesauce wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

i want to say something about the 2h skill line, since we are talking about stamina weapons

this skill line needs a block breaker!!! half of this skill line has awful abilities. how about putting a block breaker in it somewhere?? increase the damage two handed weapons do, and put a block breaker in it. im tired of having this giant sword, only for it to be blocked the entire battle:(

good idea, Should make it a passive, arcane fighter is 100% useless and a waste of skill points, they could have a passive that bypasses up 50% of a block, put a 5 second CD on it.

*make it real nice and have it also give some minor armor pen.*

YES!!!
it would not make the skill line competitive with the "best ones" as i will call them(as weapon damage is still garbage) but would make it at least viable. course there is still the matter of DW and bow..... ach. hopefully they achieve at least some kind of balance in the future. i feel stupid for making a 2h char right now, as the damage i can do with it, is horrible compared to many other builds i tried:/
they just need to buff up weapon damage, and go thru these abilities and do a complete re-do. for ALL weapons.

Ninnghizhidda

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What frustrates me no end is this:



Is completely unviable in end game.

A heavy armor wrecking machine. I am hoping that when ZOS are done with their balancing they do consider a way to allow melee characters to do so in heavy armor

Exactly this. They have even been advertising around something that totally doesn't exist. Or rather, it exists, if you fancy to arbitrarily gimp your self / character and be less-than-average. Completely the opposite of the (in)famous "play as you like" (also heavily advertised).

And no it is not the question of some build being "weaker" than the other and that certain choices will indeed lead to a lesser performing character.

It is about ANY archetypal type of "warrior" being laughing stock, while the "average" (or below average) "mage" will be forking out 5 times higher dps, having a nice arsenal of aoes that can toast groups of mobs very fast, having great resources (magicka) that can be managed and replenished rapidly, having access to skills that turn a fragile (as they should be) "glass cannon" character into an all-in-one "god mode" monster.

This didn't happen overnight of course, it is there by design since the very early days. What is really irritating is that while ESO staff apparently recognises the "imbalance", virtually does nothing, or at best half-arsed attempts, to properly address it and finally give "warriors" (and I like to use this archetypal term again, instead of the rather misleading "Stamina builds") some well deserved edge and feasibility.

No one asked them to make "warriors" the next OP thing or to "nerf" their beloved "Harry Potter mages". Only to give the (many) people who enjoy playing said characters a chance to perform with relative competence, not being 10 times weaker.

I know some will be eager to jump in and "defend" their beloved "dress and stick" uber characters by claiming they are not uber, and anyone can be as good, it is people being stupid, don't know how to play and all that old crapola. To that, I would just dare anyone to demonstrate an example of a "real warrior" in ESO performing as well as a "mage", for example soloing tough content, like multiple enemies of increased difficulty (as we have seen repeatedly in Craglorn, for example). And by "true warrior" I mean just that, not some "mage" in disguise, supposedly sporting some Heavy Armour piece or a weapon other than a staff, while still using the traditional arsenal of magick skills.

To me this exactly is my main source of disappointment in ESO, everything else I can swallow and forgive, even the long list of bugs, lack of other important features and mishaps.

When Zeni turns ESO into a true Elder Scrolls game, we will probably have in our hands the best ever MMO. Until then, yes, it is "Elder Mages Online", and ultimately, not only a great disappointment but another missed opportunity for excellence (and only because they shot their own foot).

pecheckler

Play the way you want

Developer mistake #1: classes

Royalroacho

Im not at vr rank yet, so I haven't done alot of this content. I can see theres definitely balance issues, but im also not willing to change my playstyle so I can get into content I wont enjoy as much because of the compromise. I really like playing dual wield nb, and wont play mage till I roll an alt sorc sometime down the road.
Is it that the trials are impossible with stamina/hybrid builds, or is it just impossible to get into groups?
Cuz if its the latter, there are definitely enough people posting about this to form a guild dedicated to running content without elite min max attitudes.
Maybe I missed it if it were brought up already, but if no ones doing it, someone should. Maybe I will when I cant get into any vet dungeons or trials in a couple weeks...

Phinix1

Strakand wrote: »

The fact is this: NB is the strongest single target DPS class in the game, period. There are enough proven facts out there, it should be indisputable, but of course there are so many morons playing ESO that don't know how to play that these facts get brushed under the rug.

It is one thing to make grandiose claims about a class being the best at something and it being an "indisputable fact," and to label any that disagree with you as morons that should L2P. It is quite another to actually PROVIDE SAID DATA, which I can't help but notice, you did not.

I play a Veteran 5 NB and they feel pretty darn weak compared to my Sorcerer of the same level. Even single target, I am just not seeing the numbers.

Now, before you call me names and tell me to L2P, here is my Sorcerer solo'ing various elites and world bosses in the highest veteran level zone for my faction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvvxDCNPzks

My NB couldn't pull this off if ZOS tied one tentacle behind the boss' back! Elites? Sure they are easy. World bosses? Not on a good day!

I think you are imagining a "perfect storm" where the NB gets the jump from stealth with Surprise Attack, maybe throwing down Viel of Blades if it is up. But realistically, there just aren't that many options, and Sorcerer weapon skills and attacks scale better than NB by a landslide (due to staff abilities like Impulse scaling off magic which is Sorcerer's primary stat they can freely max, while NB has to split between magic for class skills and stamina for weapon skills, unless they use staff).

Any weapon other than staff is a perfect example of getting spread too thin. Everything gets normalized and you end up not being the best at anything, except maybe sneak ganking noobs off their horse in Cyrodiil before their friends happily slaughter you.

But in PVE, the damage and utility of NB feels pretty meh.

I mean look at Restraining Prison for the Sorcerer. An AOE root that increases crit rate by 15%? AND they get the single target mez that NB gets, but that gives them 15% crit as well while ours gives us what? A poof of crap damage when it ends?

(Now watch, instead of fixing NB they'll take the crit away from Dark Magic passives or something! Go go "balance by nerf!") XD

Maybe they would rather the 70+% that PVE suffer instead of the EXTREMELY vocal PVP minority, so they leave it imbalanced to avoid the QQ can of FOTM worms.

I just don't know anymore.

Ninnghizhidda

woodsro wrote: »

I think people focus on dps way too much. If every class could dps the same there would be no point in having classes.

dragonknight is a tank class
tempkar is a healing class
sorc is a damage class
nightblade is a stealth class

that's how zenimax intended the game to be designed. Sure templar can tank, but there not as good at it as the dk. Sorcs can heal, but not as good as the templar.

this is both good and bad, good that each class is the best in its envisioned role, and bad because the "play as you want to" is not as flexible as many thought.

just my 2 cents

The focus on dps may be a bit too much really, I agree, but it is inevitable and not just because people are unhappy doing 10 less damage than the next chap. We are talking about tremendous differences in performance, and while some classes / builds are not really meant to be nukers, they should still be able to do some dps that would allow them, for example, to solo "normal" content, meaning "normal" enemies in the open world (i.e. doing quests), without taking half an hour per mob or eventually dying to the next trio of "normal" mobs (the ones you could call "trash" mobs).

I might also agree on the view that Zeni probably built ESO with a particular role for each class, more or less. As with other things, it didn't turn out very well. In fact it turned out totally different.

DK = tank class? Maybe. Sure, a DK can be a fine tank. A Templar can be a tank. A NB too. Ah, yes, a Sorcerer can be a fine tank in "dress and stick"!!! In the meantime, a DK can still be a super-duper-uber-wow "mage" with huge survivability and dps output (plenty of examples). So much for a "tank dedicated" class.

A Templar can be a great healer, sure, actually the best I would say. Again, they can be tanks, if they want to. And they can dps too, if they want to and with the correct setup. Perhaps not reaching the insane levels of a DK or Sorc, but certainly neither "wimpy dps" as usually "healers" are.

A Sorc? Not much to say. Apart from being classic nukers, they can tank just fine, as already mentioned, without even having to let go of their beloved "evening gown / broomstick" setup. Enough said.

NBs? Perhaps the closest thing to the archetypal "stealth class", sure. Not truly "assassins" or "thieves" though, as many people trying or wanting to play them. However, these days, after several "boosts" (smaller or larger), they can be decent dps, they can tank if they want to, they can "stealth" if they want to. Not that bad really, except they are really a magick class again. Granted, in every Elder Scrolls game, Nightblades are a magick class.

So, no matter what Zeni had in mind, and I will accept they had the best intentions, it just turned out wrong. What we got now, is purely "mages" one way or another. Some "mages" are certainly better than others and more versatile and can adopt many roles with greater ease. But "mages" alright.

This thread's title is 100% accurate and spot on (sadly).

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

I think that they really didn't think about what they were doing when they created the four classes. For example if the Templar is meant to be the "healer" archetype, then why put them in heavy armor with a 2h weapon on the character selection screen?

I think the ZOS design team need to decide once and for all whether they want set in stone class archetypes or whether they want (as advertised) any class to be able to perform any role.

Right now they are sending out very mixed signals and the the weapon and armor skill lines showing inferiority to light/staff in high end PvE are not helping.

I really hope it's the latter option. Elder Scrolls is about choice, not pre-defined class/role combinations. I firmly believe that this balance can be achieved without sacrificing the individual traits provided by each class...

...it's just going to be one hell of a trial and error balancing act

crislevin

moxiesauce wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Strakand wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I refuse to play my NB with a Stick, Bow and 1H/S. I guess I stack the deck against me......

One of my guild leaders plays a NB with DW and Resto and 7 medium. He is stacked up on weapon crit with the latest patch and wrecks face.

I am sorry, but the NB is only as weak as the player.

And what's his dps like? Sure you can solo things and blah blah, but can he pull 2k on storm Atronach like a mage? hell 1.5k at the least.

2k dps on SA? how? for a mage, show me.

A sorc in my guild claims he pulls 2.2 on storm atronach, I've personally SEEN other's pull 1.8k.

Ask him to post stats and build.

Cos 1.8k single target dps is quite unheard of for most sorc. I can easily understand aoe dps, but single target? Not sure math works out.

Slaunyeh

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What frustrates me no end is this:



Is completely unviable in end game.

Yeah. None of the beard options are even remotely that epic.

NadiusMaximus

Slaunyeh wrote: »

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What frustrates me no end is this:

Unless he got so mad he snapped is restoration staff in half and that's what he's holding.

felinith66

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What frustrates me no end is this:



Is completely unviable in end game.

A heavy armor wrecking machine. I am hoping that when ZOS are done with their balancing they do consider a way to allow melee characters to do so in heavy armor

I don't know. Watching the trailers, the heavy armored guy didn't do much. He and 2 mages took on some monsters. He killed some banekins. Took on a giant that almost killed him.

The Mage was the one face rolling everything. And if not for her, the melee guys would have died. I mean, she even survived being buried in boulders just wearing light armor, while the heavy armored guy had to find shelter.

So ZOS wasn't misleading anyone. Light armor > Medium or Heavy. Mages for the win

Kego

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

But in PVE, the damage and utility of NB feels pretty meh.

I mean look at Restraining Prison for the Sorcerer. An AOE root that increases crit rate by 15%? AND they get the single target mez that NB gets, but that gives them 15% crit as well while ours gives us what? A poof of crap damage when it ends?

Than use Shadowy Disguise that gives us a 100% Crit Chance. And Any Mob that is not Fear Immun will die easly against a NB, cause Fear does not break through DMG, means you can just Fear - DMG - Fear - DMG until you are OOM...oh wait, that will never happen with Leeching Strike.

NB is fine and it is the strongest Class, if you think about using Stamina Builds, cause we have an Insane Stamina Regen through the 30% Passive, and with the new Caps, the 40% out of Haste Buff.

For 1.4 ZOS needs to make their next moves with:

- Remove 10% DMG to all Skills via Resto Staff
- Rework Elemental Drain from Destruction Weapon
- Evocation from Light Armor, Magicka Cost Reduction from 3% to 2% per peace.
- Remove "see Invisible" from Mage Light and Morphs. It should just work against hidden Enemies. Same for the Potion.

Some minor tweaks but they are necessary, before ZOS moves deeper into Skill Buffs from Weapon Lines.

Stx

Stamina builds will never be as good as magicka builds as long as the weapon trees stay so crappy with crappy skills in them.

Medium armor actually isnt that bad. I love medium armor to be honest... I love every passive it gives me.

But what the hell good is medium armor if all the stamina skills from weapons suck ass?

Cleave, damage is pathetic. Executioner, doesnt do much damage unless target is below 33%. Wrecking Blow, cast time makes it horrible for dps, makes you an easy target for an interrupt in pvp, and often the skill just wont cast.

Blood Craze, pretty good for survival in solo pve, but again horrible for dps. Flurry, locked into channel animation makes it poor dps in pve and interrupt bait in pvp. whirlwind, laughable damage compared to impulse/other magicka AE. Flying Blade, good for pvp, but in pve dps is horrible.

Im not even going to do the bow.

On top of weapon skills generally being bad for pve dps, stamina builds have ZERO ways to regain health(blood craze or rally, but very small amounts). Try pvping against a guy with a resto staff, or a DK who can use dragon blood, or a templar spamming blazing shield, as a freaken stamina build... its not gonna happen. Stamina builds are forced to use the magicka survival mechanics to.. survive. And they have a much smaller magicka pool with no cost reduction so they just die.

I am really trying to make a Warrior nightblade build work, and even if I can compete with spell damage dealers in pvp, I can't sustain my health bar with crappy soul swallows... I feel I am almost forced to go Vampire for the drain and devouring swarm to stay alive... but, I dont want to go vampire so...

/end rant (sorry)

TehMagnus

Stamina builds in PVP are not underpowered vs magicka builds, especially on 1v1. As for trials, why should all builds have the same damage? Where is this rule?

jackyd

crislevin wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Strakand wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I refuse to play my NB with a Stick, Bow and 1H/S. I guess I stack the deck against me......

One of my guild leaders plays a NB with DW and Resto and 7 medium. He is stacked up on weapon crit with the latest patch and wrecks face.

I am sorry, but the NB is only as weak as the player.

And what's his dps like? Sure you can solo things and blah blah, but can he pull 2k on storm Atronach like a mage? hell 1.5k at the least.

2k dps on SA? how? for a mage, show me.

A sorc in my guild claims he pulls 2.2 on storm atronach, I've personally SEEN other's pull 1.8k.

Ask him to post stats and build.

Cos 1.8k single target dps is quite unheard of for most sorc. I can easily understand aoe dps, but single target? Not sure math works out.

Here i'll let you in on teh secret how we sorcs can top 1.5k and more DPS on all Atronach bosses:

In the Dark Magic skill line is a spell called deadric mines this spell spawns 3 mines which take 3s to arm and explode when a mob triggers them. No you can morph this skill to spawn either 3 mines in straight line that arm instantly or you can morph it to 5 runes that encircle you but still take 3s to arm.

The trick to the Atronach bosses is they have such a large hit box that, when placed correctly triggers all 5 mines. Now each mine hits for appropx 600dmg non-crit x5 and you dish out 3000dmg every 3s from the mines alone.

While the mines are arming you spam crystal fragment, if you're good (meaning you either block or interrupt at the end of the cast to cut the animation off) and on low latency you can get in 2 casts of fragments before the mines pop.

Oh and downing at the least the storm atronach in AA shouldn't last longer than 30-40s anyways so there is no issue with sustained DPS

Kego

Stx wrote: »

But what the hell good is medium armor if all the stamina skills from weapons suck ass?

Not all, but yeah, to much of them.

Cleave, damage is pathetic. Executioner, doesnt do much damage unless target is below 33%. Wrecking Blow, cast time makes it horrible for dps, makes you an easy target for an interrupt in pvp, and often the skill just wont cast.

All AOE DMG with Stamina Skills must be raised around 50-100%, cause all AOE Magicka DMG does nearly twice as much. Executioner is fine, cause it is a Finisher, like Assassins Blade from Nightblades.

Blood Craze, pretty good for survival in solo pve, but again horrible for dps. Flurry, locked into channel animation makes it poor dps in pve and interrupt bait in pvp. whirlwind, laughable damage compared to impulse/other magicka AE. Flying Blade, good for pvp, but in pve dps is horrible.

I like Blood Craze but it should do a bit more DoT DMG, cause I don't see this as a spammer, instead a Skill that is used every 9 seconds if the DoT runs out.

Flurry acutally is a nice Skill but needs a bit more Power into it as the Main DPS source.

Whirlwind, same as Cleave or both AOE Bow Skills. Needs a major DMG Buff or all Magicka AOE a huge Nerf.

Im not even going to do the bow.

Bow only needs minor improvements to be great. Raise the Light Attack Base DMG. Introduce a passive that makes Snipe an Instant Attack, like 3/6% chance from Light/Heavy Attacks and change the second Morph of Poison Arrow to a true Finisher like Execution and Assassins Blade.

On top of weapon skills generally being bad for pve dps, stamina builds have ZERO ways to regain health(blood craze or rally, but very small amounts). Try pvping against a guy with a resto staff, or a DK who can use dragon blood, or a templar spamming blazing shield, as a freaken stamina build... its not gonna happen. Stamina builds are forced to use the magicka survival mechanics to.. survive. And they have a much smaller magicka pool with no cost reduction so they just die.

Yes, Stamina Build will always have to use Magicka Support Skills and that is fine as it is.

I am really trying to make a Warrior nightblade build work, and even if I can compete with spell damage dealers in pvp, I can't sustain my health bar with crappy soul swallows... I feel I am almost forced to go Vampire for the drain and devouring swarm to stay alive... but, I dont want to go vampire so...

/end rant (sorry)

As a Nightblade you have access to two 50% Heal Debuff Skills. If that is not enough, well, than I don't know.

Overall I don't think we will ever see all Weapon Line to be competitive in all areas but they should shine in one at least, like:

• 2handers for AOE and finisher,
• Dual Wield for Single Target DPS & Debuffs,
• Bow for Single Target DPS & AOE CC.

Stx

magnusnet wrote: »

Stamina builds in PVP are not underpowered vs magicka builds, especially on 1v1. As for trials, why should all builds have the same damage? Where is this rule?

I can't speak for 1.3, as I haven't PvP'd much and the changes are all still new... But pre 1.3, stamina builds could not compete with any good magicka build 1v1. It was all resto staff/sword and board. Even if you used two hander or dual wield for a build, you still stacked magicka...

jackyd

Whirlwind, same as Cleave or both AOE Bow Skills. Needs a major DMG Buff or all Magicka AOE a huge Nerf.

I agree with the entirety of you post except this tiny bit.

Whirlwind is possibly the most strongest AoE in the game bar Ultimates and Overload

Yes it starts low with hits in the 180/270 crit but as soon as the mobs drop below 50% it goes up exponentially starting with crits from 500 -up 700 up to 1.1k damage on the final 25%

OTOH Impulse hits for a flat 200/300 crit everytime

I can WW down a pack of 6 mobs dishing out 3k DPS same as with overload whereas I can only dish out approx 2k DPS using the Destro staff AoE.

Also 2H have their niche already, they are by far the most effetive weapon from opening from stealth: Wrecking Blow > LA + Mages Wrath > LA+ Excutioner and bam player down in 2s

Addtionally they are the best Ulti builders in AoE scenarios

crislevin

jackyd wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Strakand wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I refuse to play my NB with a Stick, Bow and 1H/S. I guess I stack the deck against me......

One of my guild leaders plays a NB with DW and Resto and 7 medium. He is stacked up on weapon crit with the latest patch and wrecks face.

I am sorry, but the NB is only as weak as the player.

And what's his dps like? Sure you can solo things and blah blah, but can he pull 2k on storm Atronach like a mage? hell 1.5k at the least.

2k dps on SA? how? for a mage, show me.

A sorc in my guild claims he pulls 2.2 on storm atronach, I've personally SEEN other's pull 1.8k.

Ask him to post stats and build.

Cos 1.8k single target dps is quite unheard of for most sorc. I can easily understand aoe dps, but single target? Not sure math works out.

Here i'll let you in on teh secret how we sorcs can top 1.5k and more DPS on all Atronach bosses:

In the Dark Magic skill line is a spell called deadric mines this spell spawns 3 mines which take 3s to arm and explode when a mob triggers them. No you can morph this skill to spawn either 3 mines in straight line that arm instantly or you can morph it to 5 runes that encircle you but still take 3s to arm.

The trick to the Atronach bosses is they have such a large hit box that, when placed correctly triggers all 5 mines. Now each mine hits for appropx 600dmg non-crit x5 and you dish out 3000dmg every 3s from the mines alone.

While the mines are arming you spam crystal fragment, if you're good (meaning you either block or interrupt at the end of the cast to cut the animation off) and on low latency you can get in 2 casts of fragments before the mines pop.

Oh and downing at the least the storm atronach in AA shouldn't last longer than 30-40s anyways so there is no issue with sustained DPS

That sure is a secret. Lol, specifically for the large creatures.

I am not sure this is a classic example of sorc's general prowess.