Urgent Hotfix Required

Halrloprillalar

leewells wrote: »

adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game

So I kill and /sit on someone, am I to be banned for exploiting their game experience? Stop being so dramatic.

Spawn camping is an exploit.

Jumping on top of gates with poorly designed roofs is not.

InvictoNZ

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom you are incorrect. This is an exploit and people are doing it deliberately.

Everyone has free choice. They are choosing to do this.

leewells

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game

So I kill and /sit on someone, am I to be banned for exploiting their game experience? Stop being so dramatic.

Spawn camping is an exploit.

Jumping on top of gates with poorly designed roofs is not.

/sit is a intentionally designed function in PVP and therefor cannot be considered an exploit because it was intended.

Mounting while trying to run through a wall to gain you access to undeveloped portions of the map to spawn tents where you cannot be attacked, and to access other areas where you can attack without risk of death is obviously what the devs had in mind when they put mounts in the game.

Who's being dramatic?

mfischer303b14_ESO

so but no where does it say exploiting to ep wayshrine is a exploit, it is discoverable, therefor like any wayshrine you can port to it. all you need to do is go reveal dc wayshrine or ad wayshrine in that location instead for going to go get the scroll first and boom you will have it also.

Rylana

I actually cant believe this is still ongoing.

Lord_Draevan

Apparently it's been happening all day on Wabbajack, DC has been stealing Scrolls and camping EP and DC all day long.

Rylana

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Apparently it's been happening all day on Wabbajack, DC has been stealing Scrolls and camping EP and DC all day long.

And yet not a single GM has simply gone into there and been like...

Hey guys, cut it out or the next one to port in here gets suspended for 3 days.

That alone would stop it immediately.

Halrloprillalar

leewells wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game

So I kill and /sit on someone, am I to be banned for exploiting their game experience? Stop being so dramatic.

Spawn camping is an exploit.

Jumping on top of gates with poorly designed roofs is not.

/sit is a intentionally designed function in PVP and therefor cannot be considered an exploit because it was intended. Who's being dramatic?

I don't think /sit was designed for pvp and you're missing the point.

I am not saying it should be allowed, but you have to realize that terrain fail is something that any player can take advantage of (opposite factions only I guess), and is as much a ZOS fail as it is player douchebaggery. ZOS can't ban these people for something that was at least equally their fault. The worst they can do is rollback whatever AP/rank they gained during this time.

If they were using code to hack into the wall or something that's another story.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

And even more telemetry exploits than just getting into the alliance starter area or the temple when the gates closed going on. Pathetic.

Halrloprillalar

Rylana wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Apparently it's been happening all day on Wabbajack, DC has been stealing Scrolls and camping EP and DC all day long.

And yet not a single GM has simply gone into there and been like...

Hey guys, cut it out or the next one to port in here gets suspended for 3 days.

That alone would stop it immediately.

It would be a good stopgap solution.

leewells

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game

So I kill and /sit on someone, am I to be banned for exploiting their game experience? Stop being so dramatic.

Spawn camping is an exploit.

Jumping on top of gates with poorly designed roofs is not.

/sit is a intentionally designed function in PVP and therefor cannot be considered an exploit because it was intended. Who's being dramatic?

I don't think /sit was designed for pvp and you're missing the point.

I am not saying it should be allowed, but you have to realize that terrain fail is something that any player can take advantage of (opposite factions only I guess), and is as much a ZOS fail as it is player douchebaggery. ZOS can't ban these people for something that was at least equally their fault. The worst they can do is rollback whatever AP/rank they gained during this time.

If they were using code to hack into the wall or something that's another story.

Being that PVP was the first content they had in alpha, I would tend to disagree with the assessment that it was not designed for PVP.

The terrain fail is indeed a fail of ZOS; but any fail of ZOS that is exploited by a player for an unfair advantage IS AN EXPLOIT, by its very text-book definition.

But how about a feature that ZOS intentionally puts into the game and then they realize "Oh ****, we ****ed up!". No, this is not an exploit. Because an outcome of using an intentional feature does not meet their metrics doesn't mean its an exploit. So, oil pots on the ground and in towers is not an exploit, no matter how cheesy it is, but "taking advantage" of terrain "glitches" is an exploit, IE, putting these oil pots on the top of the chalman mile gate to instant-kill every player that comes through leaving them with no recourse, no way, except to exploit a glitch to challenge you, is undoubtedly, an exploit.

Worstluck

FYI, that troll (no names please, look above ^^) is on Bloodthorn DC side right now and I quote, "up in their base, killing their dudes" if anyone wants to have fun. So any EP or AD players come to Bloodthorn and kill this fool

Bloodvax

LOL spies everywhere. Didnt die though. I'm a pro pvper

leewells

Bloodvax wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Bloodvax wrote: »

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

I don't think the way to get people to pvp is to kill them before they even zone/see you.

edit: I don't find how doing this would be even fun. However, I don't think bans are the way to go here.

How can it NOT be fun? (have a massive spawn kill *** rockin right now)

While it may be fun for you to spawn camp, it is not fun for the 90% of others that are EULA compliant. When and while PVP remains not fun for them, they log off. After a few days of not logging in because it is not fun for them because they are EULA complaint, they stop paying the subscriptions. When they stop paying their subscriptions, ZOS has to make a choice to either a) turn off the servers or b) go free-to-play/pay-to-win. I don't believe either choice would be very appealing to a teenager in his parents basement exploiting a video game to get his rocks off, not unless you plan to use your parent's credit cards to win for option b.

There is a certain awesomeness to mass psychology in this situation. You see, no matter what happens you will reap what you sow. If you're not banned by ZOS, enough people will stop playing and your fun will inevitably end anyways. So no matter what, you will eventually meet a permanent ban whether it be by ZOS or by ZOS flipping the switch on the servers because complaint community members won't pay for a game where h3 wh0m hAz 7h3 b357 hAx5 winz.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

GnatB

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It's a very grey area. We acknowledge that the terrain issue is a bug that we need to fix, and are working on doing so as soon as possible.

Not sure what grey area she's talking about. They say it's a bug. Taking advantage of a bug is the *definition* of exploit.

The only possible "grey area" I can see is them not wanting to lose all the money of the accounts that would be banned if they actually took appropriate action..

leewells wrote: »

"any of its parts" seems to cover about anything to me. Did you construe that differently?

Probably the rest of the sentance, "for any commercial purpose"

leewells

GnatB wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

"any of its parts" seems to cover about anything to me. Did you construe that differently?

Probably the rest of the sentance, "for any commercial purpose"

I'm taking it you skipped right over the comma used to break the "including without limitation" subsections?

exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Game Client, for any commercial purpose (including without limitation renting, leasing or licensing the Game to others), including without limitation (a) for gathering virtual currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (b) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;

The inclusion of "including without limitation" means that it includes the list following it but not limited to that list.

So lets look at the preamble the provision: "Exploit the game or any of its parts". Everything after is inclusionary, not exclusive.

Breakdown:

(You may not) exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Game Client, for any commercial purpose (including without limitation renting, leasing or licensing the Game to others)

(You may not) exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Game Client, including without limitation (a) for gathering virtual currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (b) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;

May that will help.

If you have any questions to the validity of that statement, think about the mass bans for EULA violations when folks used the guild bank exploit.

Rylana

Bloodvax wrote: »

LOL spies everywhere. Didnt die though. I'm a pro pvper

... youre a pro eh? spawncamping and being proud of it is the hallmark of being a pro now?

Bloodvax

Funny how the people that are in control of the game say its not an exploit multiple times and yet the lemmings bleat on about how people will get banned for exploiting.

Rylana

Bloodvax wrote: »

Funny how the people that are in control of the game say its not an exploit multiple times and yet the lemmings bleat on about how people will get banned for exploiting.

Theyve stated flat out that it is an exploit.

leewells

Rylana wrote: »

Bloodvax wrote: »

Funny how the people that are in control of the game say its not an exploit multiple times and yet the lemmings bleat on about how people will get banned for exploiting.

Theyve stated flat out that it is an exploit.

Allow me...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Okay, so the only way to do this if the gate is closed is to have an enemy character pull you in. We're going to fix this as soon as possible, but just because it's currently allowing exploiting doesn't mean it's okay to do. If you see players from your alliance actively pulling people over the gate to bring them into your spawner area where they otherwise would not be able to go, please report them for exploiting.

The problem now and the reason ZOS back-peddled on that is because there is such abhorrent policing by ZOS in game that multitudes of players started doing it and their they know they can't just go ban thousands of players and still keep the server going.

I called it with bat swarm exploit and I called it with caltrops. I said plainly on these forums that if they didn't do something fast to those exploiting it would get worse, and the next time an exploit is discovered EVEN MORE people would participate.

ZOS didn't even attempt to slow down on the slippery slope warning and now are on full collision course with the ground. Again, I called it. Just saying.

Infractions, no matter how minor they may seem keep getting worse until they are dealt with and made an example of. I wonder what they are going do when they find 20% of their players have bot accounts being as this collective exploitation community is starting to realize that as long as they commit an act enmasse that nothing happens to them.

This really is poor business planning on ZOS's part. Taking a hit of $100,000 in annual revenues seems to be a great investment to retain $2,000,000 for the next year. Not unless ZOS has some secret immunity to chargeback fees for when the hAx0rz all flood in with stolen credit cards.

Worstluck

Stop feeding it! It will get hungry and look elsewhere for it's sustenance.

Sihnfahl

leewells wrote: »

Allow me...

That was in regards to the chain pull.

The terrain error? Later on....

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There are a couple things going on here. This part of it is exploiting:
Okay, so the only way to do this if the gate is closed is to have an enemy character pull you in. We're going to fix this as soon as possible, but just because it's currently allowing exploiting doesn't mean it's okay to do. If you see players from your alliance actively pulling people over the gate to bring them into your spawner area where they otherwise would not be able to go, please report them for exploiting.

The terrain-based issue is not. We're working to get both fixed as quickly as possible, as Brian stated a few posts above.

Rylana

The terrain based issue jessica is talking about is on top of the gate roof at bleakers (not the one being used to get into the OPFOR spawn area)

She is not talking about the terrain to get into spawn areas. her statement about spawn area entry being an exploit stands.

Laura

wow they didn't say anything on the threads about DC doing this to EP did they? they were literally doing it ALL NIGHT.

Tintinabula

Brian Wheeler mentioned that a fix was coming tomorrow afternoon.That it was postponed due to something that "arose"...(don't say it!)

leewells

Tintinabula wrote: »

Brian Wheeler mentioned that a fix was coming tomorrow afternoon.That it was postponed due to something that "arose"...(don't say it!)

Don't say what? That something also arose when they promised to fix caltrops that evening? Bat swarm? The Mercs?

ZOS reminds me of the military, hurry up and wait, but on crack.

Every foot ball game I've seen, every baseball game I've seen, where there is a flaw with the feild, THEY SHUT DOWN THE GAME until it is fixed. Why? Because there is a scoreboard.

How many times has first base become dislodged and they stop the game and call the player safe anyways? How many times have you seen the umpire call the runner out because the baseman picks up the base and runs off with it? You haven't. They stop the game, fix the issue, throw the player that ran off with the base OUT OF THE GAME, and resume.

Soloeus

InvictoNZ wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom you are incorrect. This is an exploit and people are doing it deliberately.

Everyone has free choice. They are choosing to do this.

Exactly, they are exploiting.

I wish I could figure out a clear exploit that I could use for hundreds of thousands of alliance points and win-button knowing I won't be banned.

leewells

Soloeus wrote: »

InvictoNZ wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom you are incorrect. This is an exploit and people are doing it deliberately.

Everyone has free choice. They are choosing to do this.

Exactly, they are exploiting.

I wish I could figure out a clear exploit that I could use for hundreds of thousands of alliance points and win-button knowing I won't be banned.

And we're called lemmings for refusing to pull up all the bases and run off the field with them when the other side hits the ball.

Bloodvax

*Points out where they say its not an exploit* NO! It still is heres this quote! *points out how thats not relevant* Whatever man its still exploiting!!!
Makes sense.

leewells

Bloodvax wrote: »

*Points out where they say its not an exploit* NO! It still is heres this quote! *points out how thats not relevant* Whatever man its still exploiting!!!
Makes sense.

Defends players that pulls up bases when the ball is hit and runs off with them. QQ's not to kick him out of the game. Says umpires didn't do anything so its legit.