Urgent Hotfix Required

Yolokin_Swagonborn

It's simpler than that. Anything you can do with WASD and a mouse should be legal in game. Everything else the code should take care of.

The software is the rules. If the rules aren't working, you patch the code till it does. And that is exactly what they are doing.

leewells

jdnchaosb14a_ESO wrote: »

It's simpler than that. Anything you can do with WASD and a mouse should be legal in game. Everything else the code should take care of.

The software is the rules. If the rules aren't working, you patch the code till it does. And that is exactly what they are doing.

So you're saying if I can hit WASD and get the game to make 1,000 tempering alloys appear in my inventory, its allowed? I shouldn't be banned? And if I keep doing it and get 10,000,000 tempering alloys and start selling them for 1gc a piece? What then? At what point will you realize the broader implications?

Let me help you realize these implications. You are suggesting that this community go from a skill and build driven game with skill based discussions on fan-sites to exploit based websites demonstrating what you can do to exploit an advantage from unsuspecting PVPers and driven by how fast you can exploit it before its patched as being the new flavor.

You see, I prefer playing the underdog class (yeah, I'm a templar which I realize may be a little op now), and I prefer being on under-dog campaigns. In my opinion this forces me to hone my own skills. I realized how much this helped me when these exploiting *** jumped out of the way-shrine and I was able to near instantly mow them down by myself, but what happens when I leave to go to the bank and come back? I zone in dead, simply because they can't play the game as it was intended. These players had no skill because they ride on the curtails of the latest exploit. This is a game of skill and tactical thinking and its being degenerated by hacking scum baddies that don't know how to or can't play any other way. My message is very clear to them, foad.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I was wondering if you were going to mention that. If you had watched the video someone posted on this forum before it was deleted, they were using some external program to increase their click rate to get the gold dupe to work. Using an external program is clearly against the TOS and no one is arguing about that.

The bank stacking issue was a KNOWN issue in the PTS before launch. ZOS had every opportunity to fix this with code before the game began or just not allow bank stacking until they did fix it.

If you used a clicker program, you should be banned. If you managed this exploit consistently manually, then you are a robot and you shouldn't be playing anyway.

The point is that ZOS was aware of this and could have patched it earlier and they would have never had to ban anymore. The people they did ban were only the ones running external programs which allowed them to dupe in mass quantities.

leewells

jdnchaosb14a_ESO wrote: »

I was wondering if you were going to mention that. If you had watched the video someone posted on this forum before it was deleted, they were using some external program to increase their click rate to get the gold dupe to work. Using an external program is clearly against the TOS and no one is arguing about that.

The bank stacking issue was a KNOWN issue in the PTS before launch. ZOS had every opportunity to fix this with code before the game began or just not allow bank stacking until they did fix it.

If you used a clicker program, you should be banned. If you managed this exploit consistently manually, then you are a robot and you shouldn't be playing anyway.

The point is that ZOS was aware of this and could have patched it earlier and they would have never had to ban anymore. The people they did ban were only the ones running external programs which allowed them to dupe in mass quantities.

I said. If.

Let me make it clearer. If a friend told me how to create admin armor by pressing A and D at the precise time I click my mouse, and created this armor, sold some of it for 100,000,000,000 gold, then used it to kill you and everyone else repeatably while at the bank in Stonefalls. You believe I should be able strut around without consequence and be allowed to continue this conduct "until it is fixed"?

Assuming you're at least 25 years old, lets make this a lot easier: Why do you believe that the old consoles called these "special key press combinations", "cheat codes"?

ferzalrwb17_ESO

leewells wrote: »

Take football for instance. Is it unsportsmanlike to "take a knee" while the ball is in play to keep the clock running and take the ball out of play to prevent the other team from having a chance to intercept from a real play? Nope. I also don't believe its unsportsmanlike to run or throw the ball out of bounds intentionally to stop the clock either. This is tactical thinking that could make or break the game and within the well-defined rules of the game.

That kind of stuff is debatable, as is a lot of the bug-exploiting I mention regarding this game (like spamming silvershards when you know it's bugged). The point is, if you truly believe the above is fairplay in football then it's a simple disagreement about rules if I think it's not.

Again I come back to intent. You aren't intending to cheat. You believe you're acting with fairness and within the spirit of the game. That's all I'm asking for here.

If some people believe not burning FC's is fine then I can live with that. If people truly, really, believe that using the caltrops bug was sporting then I can't have an issue with them and my gripe can only be with ZOS. But I don't believe that's the case - especially with the current exploiting.

I have no problem with you, or anyone else, disagreeing with my interpretation about what is or isn't cheating/exploiting. I'm happy enough to argue them case by case and get different perspectives (as long as some people can keep it civil). That's healthy gaming discussion IMO.

We disagree on the rules and definitions somewhat but your intent is to play fair and it's bleeding obvious. The same can't be said for the mob out in Cyrodiil at the moment. I'm sorry but I find it very, very hard to believe that any of them have fairplay in mind currently.

Arsenic_Touch

Has ZoS backpedaled on their open mouth insert foot policy yet or is it still too grey?

leewells

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

Take football for instance. Is it unsportsmanlike to "take a knee" while the ball is in play to keep the clock running and take the ball out of play to prevent the other team from having a chance to intercept from a real play? Nope. I also don't believe its unsportsmanlike to run or throw the ball out of bounds intentionally to stop the clock either. This is tactical thinking that could make or break the game and within the well-defined rules of the game.

That kind of stuff is debatable, as is a lot of the bug-exploiting I mention regarding this game (like spamming silvershards when you know it's bugged). The point is, if you truly believe the above is fairplay in football then it's a simple disagreement about rules if I think it's not.

Again I come back to intent. You aren't intending to cheat. You believe you're acting with fairness and within the spirit of the game. That's all I'm asking for here.

If some people believe not burning FC's is fine then I can live with that. If people truly, really, believe that using the caltrops bug was sporting then I can't have an issue with them and my gripe can only be with ZOS. But I don't believe that's the case - especially with the current exploiting.

I have no problem with you, or anyone else, disagreeing with my interpretation about what is or isn't cheating/exploiting. I'm happy enough to argue them case by case and get different perspectives (as long as some people can keep it civil). That's healthy gaming discussion IMO.

We disagree on the rules and definitions somewhat but your intent is to play fair and it's bleeding obvious. The same can't be said for the mob out in Cyrodiil at the moment. I'm sorry but I find it very, very hard to believe that any of them have fairplay in mind currently.

I actually respect your stance there only because I don't believe I could take such a solid stance. I don't disagree with you, but I believe that to a certain point you are handicapping yourself to the point you can't be competitive.

The caltrops should be bannable, not unless someone really thought the put caltrops in this game to magically make them immune from a big fireball hitting them in the head. Actually, I retract that statement as they should be banned for retardation.

Gaettusk

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Has ZoS backpedaled on their open mouth insert foot policy yet or is it still too grey?

I don't think they have rectified their employee's blunder yet. I guess receiving my money is going to be a "grey area" for them.

leewells

Gaettusk wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Has ZoS backpedaled on their open mouth insert foot policy yet or is it still too grey?

I don't think they have rectified their employee's blunder yet. I guess receiving my money is going to be a "grey area" for them.

Yep, my sub is also a grey area right now.



When I see the first round of bans, I'll reactive it, but not a moment before. They have 13 days.

Gaettusk

leewells wrote: »

Gaettusk wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Has ZoS backpedaled on their open mouth insert foot policy yet or is it still too grey?

I don't think they have rectified their employee's blunder yet. I guess receiving my money is going to be a "grey area" for them.

Yep, my sub is also a grey area right now.



When I see the first round of bans, I'll reactive it, but not a moment before. They have 13 days.

If I could click agree and awesome for the same post, then I'd click them both for that post.

Animus0724

As a AD player on auriel's bow, I am quite disappointed at my faction for doing this, this is something I expected from EP, not the dominion....

-ashamed tsk tsk tsk

ferzalrwb17_ESO

leewells wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

Take football for instance. Is it unsportsmanlike to "take a knee" while the ball is in play to keep the clock running and take the ball out of play to prevent the other team from having a chance to intercept from a real play? Nope. I also don't believe its unsportsmanlike to run or throw the ball out of bounds intentionally to stop the clock either. This is tactical thinking that could make or break the game and within the well-defined rules of the game.

That kind of stuff is debatable, as is a lot of the bug-exploiting I mention regarding this game (like spamming silvershards when you know it's bugged). The point is, if you truly believe the above is fairplay in football then it's a simple disagreement about rules if I think it's not.

Again I come back to intent. You aren't intending to cheat. You believe you're acting with fairness and within the spirit of the game. That's all I'm asking for here.

If some people believe not burning FC's is fine then I can live with that. If people truly, really, believe that using the caltrops bug was sporting then I can't have an issue with them and my gripe can only be with ZOS. But I don't believe that's the case - especially with the current exploiting.

I have no problem with you, or anyone else, disagreeing with my interpretation about what is or isn't cheating/exploiting. I'm happy enough to argue them case by case and get different perspectives (as long as some people can keep it civil). That's healthy gaming discussion IMO.

We disagree on the rules and definitions somewhat but your intent is to play fair and it's bleeding obvious. The same can't be said for the mob out in Cyrodiil at the moment. I'm sorry but I find it very, very hard to believe that any of them have fairplay in mind currently.

I actually respect your stance there only because I don't believe I could take such a solid stance. I don't disagree with you, but I believe that to a certain point you are handicapping yourself to the point you can't be competitive.

The caltrops should be bannable, not unless someone really thought the put caltrops in this game to magically make them immune from a big fireball hitting them in the head. Actually, I retract that statement as they should be banned for retardation.

I'm competitive enough given my own level of eye-hand retardination.

I believe if you have to "bend the rules" to win then you're not good enough and it's an empty victory for me. It's taken me a long time (I'm an old fart) to get to this point but I honestly gain more pleasure from playing fairly at all costs than winning at all costs.

There are some advantages in doing that too - as they patch the exploits people start to come down to my level. As time goes on I'm finding I'm more and more competitive as the OP builds and exploits are nerfed and patched.

The moral crusader in me implores everyone to try fairplay-at-all-costs sometime. It's something different.

leewells

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

Take football for instance. Is it unsportsmanlike to "take a knee" while the ball is in play to keep the clock running and take the ball out of play to prevent the other team from having a chance to intercept from a real play? Nope. I also don't believe its unsportsmanlike to run or throw the ball out of bounds intentionally to stop the clock either. This is tactical thinking that could make or break the game and within the well-defined rules of the game.

That kind of stuff is debatable, as is a lot of the bug-exploiting I mention regarding this game (like spamming silvershards when you know it's bugged). The point is, if you truly believe the above is fairplay in football then it's a simple disagreement about rules if I think it's not.

Again I come back to intent. You aren't intending to cheat. You believe you're acting with fairness and within the spirit of the game. That's all I'm asking for here.

If some people believe not burning FC's is fine then I can live with that. If people truly, really, believe that using the caltrops bug was sporting then I can't have an issue with them and my gripe can only be with ZOS. But I don't believe that's the case - especially with the current exploiting.

I have no problem with you, or anyone else, disagreeing with my interpretation about what is or isn't cheating/exploiting. I'm happy enough to argue them case by case and get different perspectives (as long as some people can keep it civil). That's healthy gaming discussion IMO.

We disagree on the rules and definitions somewhat but your intent is to play fair and it's bleeding obvious. The same can't be said for the mob out in Cyrodiil at the moment. I'm sorry but I find it very, very hard to believe that any of them have fairplay in mind currently.

I actually respect your stance there only because I don't believe I could take such a solid stance. I don't disagree with you, but I believe that to a certain point you are handicapping yourself to the point you can't be competitive.

The caltrops should be bannable, not unless someone really thought the put caltrops in this game to magically make them immune from a big fireball hitting them in the head. Actually, I retract that statement as they should be banned for retardation.

I'm competitive enough given my own level of eye-hand retardination.

I believe if you have to "bend the rules" to win then you're not good enough and it's an empty victory for me. It's taken me a long time (I'm an old fart) to get to this point but I honestly gain more pleasure from playing fairly at all costs than winning at all costs.

There are some advantages in doing that too - as they patch the exploits people start to come down to my level. As time goes on I'm finding I'm more and more competitive as the OP builds and exploits are nerfed and patched.

The moral crusader in me implores everyone to try fairplay-at-all-costs sometime. It's something different.

The rule bending is where I think we're differing there. I don't believe it is bending the rules to take a knee, or ignore a tent when you see the other side rezzing, as again, the definition of exploiting doesn't include inaction. Using caltrops? Yeah, thats not just rule bending, its rule breaking. Wall exploits? Again, rule breaking. Placing oil down to troll others so they can't put it up? Rule bending. But walking past a bugged tent? Fair game, because the disadvantage would persist whether I was there or not. I'm very text-book driven on that but I do still think I'm considerate of others.

leewells

Gaettusk wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

Gaettusk wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Has ZoS backpedaled on their open mouth insert foot policy yet or is it still too grey?

I don't think they have rectified their employee's blunder yet. I guess receiving my money is going to be a "grey area" for them.

Yep, my sub is also a grey area right now.



When I see the first round of bans, I'll reactive it, but not a moment before. They have 13 days.

If I could click agree and awesome for the same post, then I'd click them both for that post.

We should dub that image the official ESO flag.

KerberosSoldier

Inside southern Morrowind spawn area

Frenzypanda

yea I half made up my mind to leave this exploit game. Spend the sub in another game is better. The confidence in the future of this game would be people speedhacking and doing all sorts of exploits and not get punished.

Tintinabula

ZOS does NOT have the last say in what is an exploit and what is not. We do. As a consumer it is our right and our responsibility to vote with our dollars if we feel something is amiss with socially un-acceptable behavior.

ZOS is not my moral or ethical compass. They may stand with me and my continued patronage or not.

Animus0724

Tintinabula wrote: »

ZOS does NOT have the last say in what is an exploit and what is not. We do. As a consumer it is our right and our responsibility to vote with our dollars if we feel something is amiss with socially un-acceptable behavior.

ZOS is not my moral or ethical compass. They may stand with me and my continued patronage or not.

Actually they do, THEY made the game, THEY moderate it, THEY provide the service we pay for, last I checked, there are no "rights" when it comes to dealing with private companies, this kind of thinking will seriously *** off any person that has to deal with customer service, ever heard of the customer is not always right?
look it up, thats what you look like right now

no ones forcing you to be here and before you get on your "well zens losing another customer now, they can say goodbye to me 1,500 cents a month" its better and probably cheaper to lose a hard to please customer than to try and please him...

Tintinabula

you must not be from the states and if you are you have absolutely NO understanding of the free market or consumerism.

If enough people unsub because of this behavior what do you think ZOS will do?

If enough ppl ignore and promote this type of behavior what do you think ZOS will do?

Ill use your own quote

Animus0724 wrote: »

Actually they do, THEY made the game, THEY moderate it, THEY provide the service we pay for, last I checked, there are no "rights" when it comes to dealing with private companies, this kind of thinking will seriously *** off any person that has to deal with customer service, ever heard of the customer is not always right?
look it up, thats what you look like right now

no ones forcing you to be here and before you get on your "well zens losing another customer now, they can say goodbye to me 1,500 cents a month" its better and probably cheaper to lose a hard to please customer than to try and please him...

See that bold type? I'm not threatening to leave. I don't make threats.I'm just pointing out that it is US...(the community) who ultimately decides the direction ZOS takes this game.

If our community ignores this and gives into ppl who call us crybabies fine..6 months from now all the exploiters will be gone (including the ones who don't cheat) because they're playing against other exploiters..and there's really no fun in that yea? "My cheats are better than your cheats?"

Gaettusk

Animus0724 wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

ZOS does NOT have the last say in what is an exploit and what is not. We do. As a consumer it is our right and our responsibility to vote with our dollars if we feel something is amiss with socially un-acceptable behavior.

ZOS is not my moral or ethical compass. They may stand with me and my continued patronage or not.

Actually they do, THEY made the game, THEY moderate it, THEY provide the service we pay for, last I checked, there are no "rights" when it comes to dealing with private companies, this kind of thinking will seriously *** off any person that has to deal with customer service, ever heard of the customer is not always right?
look it up, thats what you look like right now

no ones forcing you to be here and before you get on your "well zens losing another customer now, they can say goodbye to me 1,500 cents a month" its better and probably cheaper to lose a hard to please customer than to try and please him...

The EULA is a contract between the customer and ZoS, and it clearly states that the aforementioned behavior is an exploit. ZoS is breaking their end of the contract by not enforcing their own rules. It's a black and white issue, not a "grey area".


Side-note: U.S. consumers do have rights, and our consumer rights are intact when it comes to our dealings with ZoS.

Limitless

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Blood you seriously don't get it. If you find a ZEN mistake and you "utilize" their mistake for your gain THAT is an exploit...no ifs ,ands or buts.

It's a very grey area. We acknowledge that the terrain issue is a bug that we need to fix, and are working on doing so as soon as possible.

Phaade

Ambush works as well....just saying...

TheGrandAlliance

....I just wonder how many of the people (complaining) wanting bans on "exploiters" here on this thread ACTUALLY PVP and not just doing so for "philosophical" reaons.

Orchish

Currently on Auriel's Bow EU we have about 20 EP vets pouring oil and slaughtering any DC player that spawns in the southern gate. We finally managed to kill them all off, i have screenshots of them all doing it but pointless posting as no action will be taken.

TheGrandAlliance

Orchish wrote: »

Currently on Auriel's Bow EU we have about 20 EP vets pouring oil and slaughtering any DC player that spawns in the southern gate. We finally managed to kill them all off, i have screenshots of them all doing it but pointless posting as no action will be taken.

LOL it is nice to see DC going down for once.

I would tell you how to break into EP... but that would be TRAITOROUS of me

Mortuum

EP jerks on Dawnbreaker EU doing it as well, while DC is not...So, enough to prove who is an exploiter and who is not, Mr.GrandAlliance lol. My point is valid, your attempts to defend your EP fail flat on face. And before you say 1 word, i can provide about 20+ screenies, with more then 30 EP doing it. Friend has nice video too. Go now, defend your pathetic faction.

Halrloprillalar

Mortuum wrote: »

EP jerks on Dawnbreaker EU doing it as well, while DC is not...So, enough to prove who is an exploiter and who is not, Mr.GrandAlliance lol. My point is valid, your attempts to defend your EP fail flat on face. And before you say 1 word, i can provide about 20+ screenies, with more then 30 EP doing it. Friend has nice video too. Go now, defend your pathetic faction.

Pretty sure each faction has its fair share of d-bags

Bloodvax

Last Nights Battle for the Northern Morrowind Gate was pure epic sauce. Got some good fights in, was really fun and I would even go so far to say that people on every side had a blast. (otherwise they would have just quit instead of fighting it out for 4+hrs) It was our team of 7 against about 14-15 EP. Was good stuff. Except for the one dude spamming ambush until his mana ran out and then doing nothing else (i shall dub the ambushy).

Tintinabula

yea ban them all I don't want those folks fighting for my side.Oh and I actually PvP..I am tired of doing ZOSs job and policing the northern gate so low levels can get quests and zone in safety.

Bloodvax

Tintinabula wrote: »

yea ban them all I don't want those folks fighting for my side.Oh and I actually PvP..I am tired of doing ZOSs job and policing the northern gate so low levels can get quests and zone in safety.

Bigger majority of people are doing this than are not. Just banning the majority of the game and leaving the game unfunded sounds like a smart business plan, lets do it!!!!!