Oil Pots should damage the user if he is in the AOE.

Gravord

Can we get some dev response when we get actual pvp in pvp zone? Oil/siege/npc abuse get bit boring, weeks ago...

Halrloprillalar

If you are choosing personal protection over a group synergy you are doing it wrong.

I know DK ults regen fast, but you can still spam bone shield more than you can spam magma armor, pretty sure.

The new DK meta isn't ult spam so much as impulsespam anyway.

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

Gravord wrote: »

Can we get some dev response when we get actual pvp in pvp zone? Oil/siege/npc abuse get bit boring, weeks ago...

If you're waiting for a dev response on the forums you're gonna be waiting a looong time...

Ralathar44

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

If you are choosing personal protection over a group synergy you are doing it wrong.

I know DK ults regen fast, but you can still spam bone shield more than you can spam magma armor, pretty sure.

The new DK meta isn't ult spam so much as impulsespam anyway.

Honestly it all depends on the situation. In alot of situations Bone shield would be the better option. In some situations magma armor is. Considering that you can switch out ultimates without losing your gained ultimate being flexible in this regard is not difficult.

Also keep in mind that since Bone Shield DOES cost quite a bit, you are also removing your ability to do other things that could benefit the group. There is an opportunity cost to using Bone Shield.

As well not everybody in PVP is that high in Undaunted. It takes a good bit of doing to get to level 4 Undaunted. While overall balance certainly needs to consider what people CAN have, what they are LIKELY to have is also important. For instance assuming that everyone on both sides was VR12 would be quite silly.

This also means that it needs to be viable for groups of VR 1's to be able to break an oil trap from groups of VR12's if they play correctly and have a few more people, despite the VR12's having access to things like Bone Shield that the VR 1's will not.

Currently this situation is even worse because most of the oil trap campers tend to be higher VR levels, while alot of the people trying to break oil traps range between VR levels and level 10.

Halrloprillalar

If you just dinged VR and went to cyrodiil what do you expect? Blaming oil on level disparity now?

And leveling undaunted is also fast?? I haven't even done every vet dungeon and I'm 4... Besides, bone shield was only one example, there's plenty other non-DK 'counters' to oil.

You are literally making up excuses for why people would die to an oil trap that are not relevant to the mechanics of oil, or DK.

Can't break it? Don't rush it, simple.

Ralathar44

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

If you just dinged VR and went to cyrodiil what do you expect? Blaming oil on level disparity now?

Lets ignore how arrogant biased that statement is, the same statement used to defend higher levels killing people in SWTOR battlegrounds.

Fact is that PVP is made up of a variety of levels, not just VR 12's. That's how it is. Because that is how it is designed balance has to take into consideration that a significant % is always going to be lower levels.

And leveling undaunted is also fast?? I haven't even done every vet dungeon and I'm 4... Besides, bone shield was only one example, there's plenty other non-DK 'counters' to oil.

Congratulations, you are not everyone and the game is not going to be balanced around your situation, mine, or anybody else's. It's going to be balanced around the average experience unless something game-breaking exists.

You are literally making up excuses for why people would die to an oil trap that are not relevant to the mechanics of oil, or DK.

No, I'm being realistic. PVP is not made up of optimal groups. It's made up of what people want to play and what they have.



A note about optimal groups:
There are however groups and guilds out there that will be making the optimal groups. It's these groups that get more things nerfed than the entire rest of the PVP populace because in making the "optimal" they abuse and exploit every imbalance out there.

Ironically if you take away the OP builds, level advantages, and tactics most of these folks are average players. But they like to think that they are good.

At least this is my experience as observed in 14 years of MMORPG's from Dark Age of Camelot on.

Can't break it? Don't rush it, simple.

But I though everyone could break it? Guess not.

Halrloprillalar

Ralathar44 wrote: »

But I though everyone could break it? Guess not.

Not for a group with the mentality you just described, I guess.

I'm a pretty average pvp'er, and so is most of my group, with a good spread of skill, class, and VR levels (we even have a couple non VRs if you can believe it). We hardly ever have issues with oil traps when not severely outnumbered.

I don't know what you have in mind for 'average experience' because our average experience does not match what you describe. Feel free to join our group and learn something maybe.

Ralathar44

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Ralathar44 wrote: »

But I though everyone could break it? Guess not.

Not for a group with the mentality you just described, I guess.

I'm a pretty average pvp'er, and so is most of my group, with a good spread of skill, class, and VR levels (we even have a couple non VRs if you can believe it). We hardly ever have issues with oil traps when not severely outnumbered.

I don't know what you have in mind for 'average experience' because our average experience does not match what you describe. Feel free to join our group and learn something maybe.

Again, I'm still game for that video of you and your group breaking an oil trap without relying on DK's. It'll mean most likely you guys will be at a direct disadvantage, but considering you hardly ever have issues when not severely outnumbered it should be quite doable right?

As said we have plenty of video's of Oil Traps farming people left and right, videos of people using oil in the middle of open field because it's strong enough to be worth it, etc.

Provide some sort of counter video or all you have is words. "It's ok, just ignore all that other stuff because I say so!" is all I'm hearing.

Samadhi

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

multi oil pots can be OP - but they are about the only counter to the restro/destro clone 'bait balls' of 10-20 players - nerf the pots, then nerf the restro/destro trains - and then nerf anything else that can kill you
-
D.

Those aoe group trains could really use another counter though. I wouldn't mind adding damage to the user of the oil pot if there was another siege that did more damage to players based on the number of players grouped together, or something similar.

Lightning Siege weapons that bolt from player to player; if 20 players are in a group when hit each one takes damage 20 times.

Halrloprillalar

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Ralathar44 wrote: »

But I though everyone could break it? Guess not.

Not for a group with the mentality you just described, I guess.

I'm a pretty average pvp'er, and so is most of my group, with a good spread of skill, class, and VR levels (we even have a couple non VRs if you can believe it). We hardly ever have issues with oil traps when not severely outnumbered.

I don't know what you have in mind for 'average experience' because our average experience does not match what you describe. Feel free to join our group and learn something maybe.

Again, I'm still game for that video of you and your group breaking an oil trap without relying on DK's. It'll mean most likely you guys will be at a direct disadvantage, but considering you hardly ever have issues when not severely outnumbered it should be quite doable right?

As said we have plenty of video's of Oil Traps farming people left and right, videos of people using oil in the middle of open field because it's strong enough to be worth it, etc.

Provide some sort of counter video or all you have is words. "It's ok, just ignore all that other stuff because I say so!" is all I'm hearing.

I am literally offering you a raid spot to come see it for yourself. And I'm not going to kick the few DKs we might have in our group just to make you happy.

P.S. if you are dying to an oil trap in an open field, you really need to stay out of Cyrodiil.

Ralathar44

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I am literally offering you a raid spot to come see it for yourself. And I'm not going to kick the few DKs we might have in our group just to make you happy.

P.S. if you are dying to an oil trap in an open field, you really need to stay out of Cyrodiil.

I already posted another thread requesting a video. I'd really prefer the most OP thing in Cyrodill atm to not be biasing the results. Those same tactics may not be viable soon depending on how they nerf DK's.

You yourself have mentioned several different DK abilities in countering Oil, more than all other class abiltiies you've mentioned combined.

Halrloprillalar

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I am literally offering you a raid spot to come see it for yourself. And I'm not going to kick the few DKs we might have in our group just to make you happy.

P.S. if you are dying to an oil trap in an open field, you really need to stay out of Cyrodiil.

You yourself have mentioned several different DK abilities in countering Oil, more than all other class abiltiies you've mentioned combined.

What? Where did I say we rely on any DK abilities to clear oil?

We use purge, barrier, and purify, not whatever DK thing you think is OP.

Ralathar44

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

What? Where did I say we rely on any DK abilities to clear oil?

We use purge, barrier, and purify, not whatever DK thing you think is OP.

It's not what I think is OP, it's what the devs think is OP. They've already stated DK is slated for a fair amount of nerfing. My opinion on that is largely irrelevant because their changes will be the only thing there that matters.

Obsidian Shield is the only thing I know for sure is getting nerfed because one of the morphs is getting redesigned from being a stronger shield to giving the DK 5% more healing power while the shield lasts.

EDIT: Via my experience at MMORPG's I'd say the following DK abilities could potentially be nerfed:

Dragon Knight Standard
Standard of Might
Ardent Flame Passives (possibly to affect only their own tree)
Spiked Armor (likely to make room for armor re-balancing if it was to happen)
Dark Talons
Dragon Blood
Green Dragon Blood
Magma Armor
Magma Shell
Obsidian Shield
Ash Cloud
Battle Roar (Earth passive)


Note that I may or may not agree with a nerf, I'm not anti-DK and my main is actually Bow/Earthen Heart. Also note that some of the nerfs they eventually put forth may tie into them eventually rebalancing the armors so that medium and heavy armor are on a more even keel with light armor.

Halrloprillalar

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

What? Where did I say we rely on any DK abilities to clear oil?

We use purge, barrier, and purify, not whatever DK thing you think is OP.

Obsidian Shield is the only thing I know for sure is getting nerfed because one of the morphs is getting redesigned from being a stronger shield to giving the DK 5% more healing power while the shield lasts.

Which has no negative effect on group survivability, because the shield bonus is on the DK only (actually positive if the DK is healing). Or is the DK soloing all the oil in your mind?

Ralathar44

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Which has no negative effect on group survivability, because the shield bonus is on the DK only (actually positive if the DK is healing). Or is the DK soloing all the oil in your mind?

It's a separate bonus from the 100% increase given to the DK and it increased the overall strength of the shield. That is the only reason I chose that morph over the damage morph on my archer.

When I chose the morph I switched back and forth between them several times to verify that it increased the base value of the shield.

Halrloprillalar

ah, well that's too bad for non healer DKs I guess.
But it's just one class and one ability and I'm sure we can manage.
In group pvp, you have to look at the big picture

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

I agree with OP. Oil set uo on the ground and working is dumb. I am not big fan of nerfs, but stuff like this including idiotic AOE spells is making this game AOE craft.

But back to oil - it must be fixed. It has to work only if placed in proper places. Which is on high places to pour it down at the enemies. Not to pour it on your feet, which will result in multikill and you laugh as you are immune to tbis dmg.

xaraan

I think it would be odd to have just one item/source of damage in the game do damage to person using it, but I always thought that oil should only work from height. Pouring oil on the ground right in front of you should not do a big AoE area like pouring it from the top of a keep.

Kypho

simple fix, get like 5 ppl with purge. removing oil dots for you and for allies nearby. oilpot-purge, next oilpot another purge and repeat.

Arsenic_Touch

Don't know if it was said yet but they shouldn't be usable on the ground and they should explode when hit with fire after a certain point (this can be countered with a purge or a repair kit)

nez

NO

bugulu

It's pretty simple.

You need to have a coordinated attack to push through an oil defense (Barrier, Purge etc).
So why shouldn't oil require the same amount of work? Standing at a corner just to put up an oil pot doesn't take much strategy and two people with those oil pots can hold down a public zerg with ease.

Fixed places to plant oil pots should be the least that you expect. Or a height requirement.

The question is this: Why should attack groups need to be coordinated (which is hard in pugs) when placing oil pots doesn't require any amount of strategy except knowing to stand in a corner?

RedTalon

You dare mention logic in this game, get over it and use dumb sense!

Kidding but agree with you, I am guilty of using oil pots while in its aoe.

It needs to change but doubt it can be codeable, be nice if it could be though and make things more fun,

TRIP233

Lowbei wrote: »

TRIP233 wrote: »

Ralathar44 wrote: »

This is a simple fix to the ground oil pots thing. You use the oil pot and are in the AOE, it hits you as well. No worries of griefing because it doesn't hit anyone, just keeps people from using some of the lamer oil spam.

Pour somewhere else = good.
Pour at your own feet = you die too.

Lol, this is the dumbest thing I've read on the Forums. You can't get hurt from friendly fire, nor can you be hurt from your own AoE attacks, so how will you get hurt from your own Oil Pots?

"yeah, the bad guys attacked me so i poured boiling oil on myself to kill them all."

sounds legit bro

"Yeah, I used an AoE attack in a group dungeon. My allies stepped into it dodging the enemies attack but mine didn't hurt them" Or, "Yeah, I used an AoE attack and the enemies used their AoE attack and I had to doge and I rolled into my own arrow volley attack, it didn't hurt me."

It's the same concept with the Oil Pots. You can't get hurt by friendly fire, or by your own attacks.

Gravord

Friendly fire on oil is bad idea. It just need to loose ability to do any dmg on flat ground or tru walls.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

All AOE should have friendly damage. Standard, Talons, Oil, Impulse everything.

Then it will require skill to fight the opponents, not spam one button and who ever has the least lag wins.

Halrloprillalar

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

All AOE should have friendly damage. Standard, Talons, Oil, Impulse everything.

Then it will require skill to fight the opponents, not spam one button and who ever has the least lag wins.

The hilarity of this in PVE would be immeasurably epic.

Ralathar44

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

All AOE should have friendly damage. Standard, Talons, Oil, Impulse everything.

Then it will require skill to fight the opponents, not spam one button and who ever has the least lag wins.

The hilarity of this in PVE would be immeasurably epic.

I would enjoy learning how to play a game like this. Unfortunately I will never get to experience how much I would love or hate this game type because of griefers.

Kevinmon

Limitless wrote: »

ESO Forums, naive as always.

Why not just let resources towers be destroyed by the faction who owns it?

Because then trolls can just go around destroying all their own faction's towers.

TomLukman

The best solution would actually be to have oils pre-placed on keeps and castles, not sold by merchants. Anyone wishing to operate the oil has to pay on spot. That way no one would be able to abuse them all over the place.