So 1.2, BE and You

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO

<- is going to open a "OMG Sorc is now unplayable you broke the class!" thread in 3 2 1 ....

lao

Affrayer wrote: »

lao wrote: »

JosephChip wrote: »

Well, I can't believe they actually decided to adopt the philosopy that I was hoping for. Incremental costs for spamming the ability. That's pretty great.
Maybe now sorcerers will come to terms with the fact that they can't survive anything they throw themselves into by mashing a button.

lao wrote: »

that change just shows (again) that ZOS doesnt understand their own game. u ppl make it sound like this would change anything. it will not. ull still be able to BE 4-5 times with a single mana bar which is more than enough to get away. add warlock or furnace set and pots to that and u can easily BE 10 times in a row still.

So? That would mean the sorcerer isn't doing anything except dumping his magicka, his pots and his warlock proc for nothing. That's like saying crouch stealth is op because you can stand invisible in a corner and never die. Yes, you are also effectively not playing. Impressive.

sure but it doesnt solve the issue everyone is qqing about. sorc can still get away whenever he wants. if ZOS had any idea wtf they doing they would have given the spell a 4 secs cooldown.

Sure! I'll take a 4 second cooldown! As long as Reflective Scales, Shadow Cloak, and Puncturing Strikes all get a 4 second cooldown as well. See what I did there?

scales should have a cooldown aswell. the other 2 no. cloak doesnt even work half of the time anyway....

Agrippa_Invisus

Use a resto or lightning staff - scales won't even matter at that point. Channels go right through scales.

Kiljaz

Nijjion wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Great fix, I see they took my suggestion... it should stack (e.g. if costs 100 it would go 100 -> 150 -> 225 ect not 100 -> 150 -> 150), if it doesn't then it's not going to change much.

If it indeed stacks it is a perfect nerf. It gives them the mobility of a blink to escape melee in the short term... but doesn't give them insane mobility over long term which made them have the choice to escape any fight they wanted.

Yeah it gives the mobility to blink escape out of melee in the short term, and then get charged, chained, ambushed right after. Every melee player thinks that bolt escape is overpowered because they can't seem to get to sorcs who use it a lot. The truth is that when you do, for most builds it's pretty much over. I don't necessarily think the nerf is too harsh but it does limit a lot of current sorc builds in pvp.

At the end of the day no single class should have that mobility in a RvR game. Sorcs will have to be more careful now like the rest of us.

Zenimax did design BE and the game around it badly but you can counter the 'counters' to BE very easily.

Well use your stam and get the immunity timer then blink and then sorcs can blink 2-3 times and get out of range before immunity has gone... out of range for anything to CC them then or what about immovable and then you have a sure chance of escape... with even the impending nerf still will be possible, just not all the time.

Classes in other games with blink abilities have lived with the skill having cooldowns of 8 seconds +... I think sorcs can survive with this.

More careful like the rest of us... lol... ever seen a dk stand still and kill 10 people? I guess that's balance. The ability to stand still.

Nijjion

Kiljaz wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Great fix, I see they took my suggestion... it should stack (e.g. if costs 100 it would go 100 -> 150 -> 225 ect not 100 -> 150 -> 150), if it doesn't then it's not going to change much.

If it indeed stacks it is a perfect nerf. It gives them the mobility of a blink to escape melee in the short term... but doesn't give them insane mobility over long term which made them have the choice to escape any fight they wanted.

Yeah it gives the mobility to blink escape out of melee in the short term, and then get charged, chained, ambushed right after. Every melee player thinks that bolt escape is overpowered because they can't seem to get to sorcs who use it a lot. The truth is that when you do, for most builds it's pretty much over. I don't necessarily think the nerf is too harsh but it does limit a lot of current sorc builds in pvp.

At the end of the day no single class should have that mobility in a RvR game. Sorcs will have to be more careful now like the rest of us.

Zenimax did design BE and the game around it badly but you can counter the 'counters' to BE very easily.

Well use your stam and get the immunity timer then blink and then sorcs can blink 2-3 times and get out of range before immunity has gone... out of range for anything to CC them then or what about immovable and then you have a sure chance of escape... with even the impending nerf still will be possible, just not all the time.

Classes in other games with blink abilities have lived with the skill having cooldowns of 8 seconds +... I think sorcs can survive with this.

More careful like the rest of us... lol... ever seen a dk stand still and kill 10 people? I guess that's balance. The ability to stand still.

Well not my fault the enemies fighting that DK are dumb...anyway that got nerfed quite a bit for DKs to do that... especially with Ult gain nerf and standard nerf... so you can't really use that QQ card any more.

Well anyway killing noone or maybe 1-2 if they are dumb enough as I said before and surviving maybe 10 seconds against 10 people vs getting away and living.... I wonder what would be better

Next...

Talcyndl

I'm guessing the nerf isn't about trying to prevent sorcs from "escaping". Rather, it's because so many sorcs are now using it as a perma stun skill (and yes I know there are counters).

Syndy

dbetterton_ESO wrote: »

I'm guessing the nerf isn't about trying to prevent sorcs from "escaping". Rather, it's because so many sorcs are now using it as a perma stun skill (and yes I know there are counters).

Probably a combination of both, tbh.

Mojomonkeyman

Ok, one question to all the wannabe pvpers rejoicing and celebrating the BE nerf. Don`t we want skillful play to be distinguishable from not so skillful play?

I always thought BE usage was a very good sign of what kind of sorceror you were facing. Imo, there is two kinds of sorcs in PvP:

The one`s who are using BE 4 and more times in a row. Forget about them, they were already bad and no threat anyways. They probably even used seducer & warlock set to cast even more BE`s in a row. "Hey man, I don`t do any damage, but I can BE infinite times"! No threat, just very good runners, and most of the time complete victims cause they either have a full mana bar, or a completely empty one.

These ones can still BE as often as they want and queue lots and lots of BE to escape as soon as any damage is incoming. Because they will still maximize escape over fighting tools. The new dark deal is making it even easier. They do nothing else but escape.

The dangerous sorc category is the one actually using some spell damage on the jewelry and crit heavy or pvp gear. They were already used to not spam more than 2-3 BE`s (you need at least 2, sometimes 3 to get out of the initial bow and charge range), evaluating when to reposition and then turn around to fight whatever was stupid enough to follow them. And always keeping the freaking magicka bar full enough to win a fight.

That kind of sorceror will be hurt the most, because now they will be pigeonholed into warlock as well to compensate for the loss. Because now, even after very careful use of BE (even after the first time), they won`t have the mana to fight very soon.

This nerf is so shortsighted and badly executed just following the cries of inexperienced players. It does nothing but pigeonhole good sorcs into the same specs bad sorcs are using now. It hurts the entire ressource management, even moreso for rare specs, such as stamina based 2h sorc with streak for mobility. You know, the builds that already never mindlessly spammed BE.

Regards

Samadhi

Affrayer wrote: »

Sure! I'll take a 4 second cooldown! As long as Reflective Scales, Shadow Cloak, and Puncturing Strikes all get a 4 second cooldown as well. See what I did there?

Made a suggestion to nerf a bunch of skills no one has any issue with as an attempt to appeal to a sentiment that modifying what is arguably the most complained about skill in the game is unwarranted.

I have never personally taken issue with Bolt Escape though; it is feasible to catch a Sorceror if I am willing to commit as many resources to it as they commit to escaping.

Halrloprillalar

Next up, I wanna see the same treatment for all the gap closers.

This is turning into Rift's "I'm sorry you're getting killed by melee you shouldn't be in melee range" argument from infini-teleporting warriors... made as much sense as it does here.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

banne

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Next up, I wanna see the same treatment for all the gap closers.

This is turning into Rift's "I'm sorry you're getting killed by melee you shouldn't be in melee range" argument from infini-teleporting warriors... made as much sense as it does here.

"Whaaaaaa Whaaaaa a melee attacker was able to catch me! Needs nerf"

Patch1.2.2:
• Fixed an issue where melee players could catch sorcerers.

Mojomonkeyman

I bet all the kung fu tryhards cried for nerfs, too, when Bruce Lee showed up.

Pathetic.

Syndy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I bet all the kung fu tryhards cried for nerfs, too, when Bruce Lee showed up.

Pathetic.

The problem is you assume Bruce Lee shows up that Sorcs would be fighting, not the case for BE, Bruce Lee shows up and they just leave... Unlike the rest of us "tryhards" who have to eat what Bruce Lee serves us...

Pathetic.

ErilAq

I never thought BE needed a nerf, but I'm perfectly ok with this change. No need to spam it excessively, and it still lets you position if needed. For once the devs made a thoughtful change instead of a knee jerk "nerf to oblivion!!!!" reaction.

Mojomonkeyman

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I bet all the kung fu tryhards cried for nerfs, too, when Bruce Lee showed up.

Pathetic.

The problem is you assume Bruce Lee shows up that Sorcs would be fighting, not the case for BE, Bruce Lee shows up and they just leave... Unlike the rest of us "tryhards" who have to eat what Bruce Lee serves us...

Pathetic.

Why would you try to chase someone who is already running away from you? Fight won, case closed. Someone outplayed you, using the tools given to him? Better run to mummy fast and beg to change the game.

Pathetic attitude. Please don`t play pvp.

Syndy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I bet all the kung fu tryhards cried for nerfs, too, when Bruce Lee showed up.

Pathetic.

The problem is you assume Bruce Lee shows up that Sorcs would be fighting, not the case for BE, Bruce Lee shows up and they just leave... Unlike the rest of us "tryhards" who have to eat what Bruce Lee serves us...

Pathetic.

Why would you try to chase someone who is already running away from you? Fight won, case closed. Someone outplayed you, using the tools given to him? Better run to mummy fast and beg to change the game.

Pathetic attitude. Please don`t play pvp.

If by outplayed you mean held down block or used immovable and BE away so that no CC would work on them, (which is still the case), then yes, I got outplayed...

The problem is when you are fighting and someone gets away, he can then come back, rez, or set up a forward camp, totally negating the previous fight.

There should be NO get out of jail free card in RvR, BE still is, this change is not enough imo, but it is a start.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

banne

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Next up, I wanna see the same treatment for all the gap closers.

This is turning into Rift's "I'm sorry you're getting killed by melee you shouldn't be in melee range" argument from infini-teleporting warriors... made as much sense as it does here.

"Whaaaaaa Whaaaaa a melee attacker was able to catch me! Needs nerf"

Patch1.2.2:
• Fixed an issue where melee players could catch sorcerers.

I think I love you too!

Mojomonkeyman

Well, if every class had the same sustain, then yes. Different class setups demand different tools. Give sorcs your heals and we can talk again. You`re blinded by your own, limited perception. It`s about attitude.

If the former fight is negated, as you say, it is also reset for you. No disadvantage for you, you didn`t lose anything. You can stealth, heal, play tetris, whatever. Same as by killing the opponent. Sad thing is, that I have to explain the obvious to you.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I bet all the kung fu tryhards cried for nerfs, too, when Bruce Lee showed up.

Pathetic.

The problem is you assume Bruce Lee shows up that Sorcs would be fighting, not the case for BE, Bruce Lee shows up and they just leave... Unlike the rest of us "tryhards" who have to eat what Bruce Lee serves us...

Pathetic.

Why would you try to chase someone who is already running away from you? Fight won, case closed. Someone outplayed you, using the tools given to him? Better run to mummy fast and beg to change the game.

Pathetic attitude. Please don`t play pvp.

Because Bruce Lee championed Jiu-Jitsu not Kung Fu but hey thanks for playing.

Also Bruce Lee wasn't a *** and would probably have been able to actually cc a sorc trying to bolt escape so he wouldn't need to give your silly arguments a second thought.

Syndy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Well, if every class had the same sustain, then yes. Different class setups demand different tools. Give sorcs your heals and we can talk again. You`re blinded by your own, limited perception. It`s about attitude.

Ok trade the healing Templars have with sorcs, and give Templars BE and the rpds Sorcs have... I Promise 99% of Templars won't complain...

That would still be light years ahead of Templars current state.

Being able to avoid dmg (BE) is better than being able to heal dmg.

Also use critical surge, you have good healing, based off of dmg done.

You sir, are blinded by your own, limited perception.

Mojomonkeyman

I know, "attitude" is a very difficult word to google. Thanks for the insight.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ok, one question to all the wannabe pvpers rejoicing and celebrating the BE nerf. Don`t we want skillful play to be distinguishable from not so skillful play?

I always thought BE usage was a very good sign of what kind of sorceror you were facing. Imo, there is two kinds of sorcs in PvP:

The one`s who are using BE 4 and more times in a row. Forget about them, they were already bad and no threat anyways. They probably even used seducer & warlock set to cast even more BE`s in a row. "Hey man, I don`t do any damage, but I can BE infinite times"! No threat, just very good runners, and most of the time complete victims cause they either have a full mana bar, or a completely empty one.

These ones can still BE as often as they want and queue lots and lots of BE to escape as soon as any damage is incoming. Because they will still maximize escape over fighting tools. The new dark deal is making it even easier. They do nothing else but escape.

The dangerous sorc category is the one actually using some spell damage on the jewelry and crit heavy or pvp gear. They were already used to not spam more than 2-3 BE`s (you need at least 2, sometimes 3 to get out of the initial bow and charge range), evaluating when to reposition and then turn around to fight whatever was stupid enough to follow them. And always keeping the freaking magicka bar full enough to win a fight.

That kind of sorceror will be hurt the most, because now they will be pigeonholed into warlock as well to compensate for the loss. Because now, even after very careful use of BE (even after the first time), they won`t have the mana to fight very soon.

This nerf is so shortsighted and badly executed just following the cries of inexperienced players. It does nothing but pigeonhole good sorcs into the same specs bad sorcs are using now. It hurts the entire ressource management, even moreso for rare specs, such as stamina based 2h sorc with streak for mobility. You know, the builds that already never mindlessly spammed BE.

Regards

If it never spammed it mindlessly then there should be no issue... Since the first cast is unaffected.

Syndy

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

If it never spammed it mindlessly then there should be no issue... Since the first cast is unaffected.

Don't explain the obvious to him, you "try hard"...

Mojomonkeyman

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Well, if every class had the same sustain, then yes. Different class setups demand different tools. Give sorcs your heals and we can talk again. You`re blinded by your own, limited perception. It`s about attitude.

Ok trade the healing Templars have with sorcs, and give Templars BE and the rpds Sorcs have... I Promise 99% of Templars won't complain...

That would still be light years ahead of Templars current state.

Being able to avoid dmg (BE) is better than being able to heal dmg.

Also use critical surge, you have good healing, based off of dmg done.

You sir, are blinded by your own, limited perception.

I have a templar, actually, and a sorc. And I know quite a lot of templars who agree with me on one thing. A well played templar is in no way disadvantaged compared to a sorc in pvp. These guys are very capable pvpers I know for years, I trust them more than your whiny attitude. Templars need tweaks in some aspects, ressource management for example, but are in no way underpowered.

Keep on fooling yourself, that it is the classes and not you, that makes the difference. Thats in my honest opinion not an attitude for someone who considers himself a pvper.

Regards

Mojomonkeyman

@Luvsfuzzybunnies‌

Did you read my wall of text concerning BE before adding a smartass one liner? I explained why even careful usage demands 2-3 BE`s to get out of initial charge range.

I recommend reading posts you want to answer to before trying to look clever. But it`s ok guys, have fun on your "nerf, nerf everything, that kills me and that I cannot kill"- party. You seem to feel very comfy over there.

xDonMega

xDonMega wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

This will encourage better play and positioning from sorcs. It's not exactly the fix I was hoping for, but at this point I am happy to have it.

Hopefully it will encourage you to stop whining about bolt escape..

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

There should be NO get out of jail free card in RvR, BE still is, this change is not enough imo, but it is a start.

Couldn't even make 24 hours..

Syndy

xDonMega wrote: »

xDonMega wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

This will encourage better play and positioning from sorcs. It's not exactly the fix I was hoping for, but at this point I am happy to have it.

Hopefully it will encourage you to stop whining about bolt escape..

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

There should be NO get out of jail free card in RvR, BE still is, this change is not enough imo, but it is a start.

Couldn't even make 24 hours..

WTF are you even talking about? I created the thread, am I not supposed to post in it now?

Halrloprillalar

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

xDonMega wrote: »

xDonMega wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

This will encourage better play and positioning from sorcs. It's not exactly the fix I was hoping for, but at this point I am happy to have it.

Hopefully it will encourage you to stop whining about bolt escape..

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

There should be NO get out of jail free card in RvR, BE still is, this change is not enough imo, but it is a start.

Couldn't even make 24 hours..

WTF are you even talking about? I created the thread, am I not supposed to post in it now?

So, you won't rest until every sorc is a punching bag?

Syndy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I have a templar, actually, and a sorc. And I know quite a lot of templars who agree with me on one thing. A well played templar is in no way disadvantaged compared to a sorc in pvp. These guys are very capable pvpers I know for years, I trust them more than your whiny attitude. Templars need tweaks in some aspects, ressource management for example, but are in no way underpowered.

Keep on fooling yourself, that it is the classes and not you, that makes the difference. Thats in my honest opinion not an attitude for someone who considers himself a pvper.

Regards

Well I consider you the same way you consider me, to have a whiny attitude...
I have internet friends I pvp with as well, and have known for a LONG time who played DoAC, and WAR for years on end and are more than very capable pvpers who totally agree that BE is completely broken. See I can do it too, I trust them and me with insight over you too...

I still don't understand how any person could have a logical explaination of an ability with no counter that allows a certain class to escape any undesireable situation as balanced.

There is no possible valid explanation you could give me to argue the fact that BE and Bock/immovable negates all form of CC and makes Sorcs uncatchable and never die in PvP... and you see that as balanced, and call yourself a pvper?

griszax

Fun part is that all You whiners care only about sorc not being able to run away from fight with bolt escape spam ... Guess what this "nerf" wont really affect these people as they will be able to still use it few times -> dark exchange or equilibrum and continue running. Sad thing is that this will hurt the most people that actually used this skill for fighting. I would love to see what vr / pvp rank are these guys that whine about "op BE" .
How come there are no whiners about nightblade builds able to kill some1 in blink of an eye ?