I think VR difficulty is still broken!

Mephos

resistance is NOT broken and armor is not broken. you can test that every time in game, just get naked and get hit and then get gear and get hit. it works (maybe not perfectly fine, but it does)

Its just that the resistances and armor is capped at a medium value. ESO has no "real" damage mitigration like in other games where a tank can get up to 80-90% damage mitigration. ESO only has up to 40-50% (50% is hard cap as far as I know and 40% is soft cap).

this means that even the tankiest player will get a huge amount of damage

so.. why is this so and why is it NOT BROKEN?

first of all.. if you could mitigrate damage to 80-90% .. blocking and dodging would become totally useless since you can just stand there and tank and spank.

additional to that, since everyone has access to healing stuff /or staff you could build with ease an immortal character (similar to WoW blood DK etc.)

I don´t think that this is what zeni wanted since the DPS would still be pretty high for those immortal tanks (weapon and spell scaling is not very high so even tanks would do a good amount of damage like they do atm)

if zeni really wants to stick to blocking, dodging stuff then the caps for damage mitigration will never go up and everything is working as intended at the moment.

its a L2P issue here with this damage.

but yes.. I think they should make the charge attacks cast longer. that would solve a lot of issues, but in general the game teaches you the following:

a) if you don´t CC your screwed
b) if you don´t block, dodge, evade charge attacks, your screwed
c) if you don´t outheal everything that comes to you your screwed (thats what I do, because I´m to lazy to block and dodge all the time. I just block when low live)


by the way.. did you know that you can CONSTANTLY block and still cast skills.. so the downtime of you blocks are MINIMUM ..

I still suggest only to block the charge attacks since you will get stamina drained very fast when blocking the low auto hits.

LariahHunding

FayaSDL wrote: »

VR10 in VR 6 area and i get 3 shot by any mob using any special attack.
After some testing with the death recap, my conclusion is:
Armor is not fully incorperated when checking damage from normal attacks..which is a pain but not deadly in the first 5 seconds of an encounter.
Spell resist are NOT counted for AT ALL. As all special attacks (except some melee ones) are counted as spells, this needs repair as it is clearly a bug, not a feature.

My friends have ran in World Bosses and others that ignore armor, spell resistance, and even blocking, while hitting op'ed.

The combat animations and mechanics suck in this game.

awhecknum1ub17_ESO

I know what you mean about interrupts. Half the time you can't interrupt a spider who is feeding to heal.
And while we are on this subject, why do mobs get these almost insta full heals? A healer can heal itself and another mob to almost full health faster than I can close to interrupt. I can't think of a single heal I can do that gives me back full health in like 2 seconds.

Fairydragon3

I'm siding with @Mephos. Ive spent 2 days in my first VR zone, I'm a vamp in stonefalls, eff me right, fire everywhere. did I also mention I'm a crafter too, cant take more than 2 enemies at a time, and be sure i dodge almost every special attack. yall's situation, sounds like, 1. you don't realize that these attacks need to be avoided at all cost, or 2. you need to adjust your build/ strategy. also this is End game content, not Leveling. the only increase in stats that you get when moving from v1-2, is that you get to put on V2 armor, but your actual base stats are not going up. so there really isnt that much difference between VR1 and VR 8

CaptainSilverbrow

BrassRazoo wrote: »

In general I think it is back to normal or perhaps even a little easier after the original crazy double HP and Double damage.
What I have noticed, or suspect, is now the NPCs "special attack" are very damaging, perhaps they have doubles (or stayed double).
I still get hit for over 2000dmg on a "special attack".
This is sort of fair enough as there are enough 'tells" that you should be able to block or move.
Then again having a thrown dagger hit for 2000dmg while getting smacked in the face with an axe for 400dmg still seems a little odd.

I'm in the VR5 zone, those flying daggers hit me for over 600 damage when I block them. And I'm in heavy fuggin' armor! Would you happen to be Sword&Boarding? Maybe I need to pick up a career in tanking.

Worstluck

This happened a couple days ago. VR6 or 7 NPC. I was on my horse, minding my own business. Jumped off a cliff, then dead..not a vampire at the time





OR this one...Ouch; was out of stamina.

Celurian

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

EDIT: I bet most of these l2p peeps are staff carrying, aoe spamming, DK's and Sorcs.

Agree!

CaptainSilverbrow

Dekkameron wrote: »

Just think of VR mobs as players and fight them accordingly hehe

Well, his gripe is with the spellcasting NPCs, so dying repeatedly would be the correct procedure.

Fyrakin

My point is - game server usually runs on its own and does not care whats happening on other end of the wire, those 2-3 seconds of cast time and opportunity window for interrupt is fine when you can react in timely fashion, if it would be single-player game I would say its good/nice/cool/etc. But this is an online game, where you have to accept packet delays as a norm. This mechanic is simply not for real life, period.

You can explain all you want how to stay alive, it simply does not work if connection becomes slower than expected. I know how to play as a melee and as a caster/ranged I've finished all alliances with a templar class (it was hard, but ok before, now I don't even bother to load it for anything but research) and nearly done with a sorcerer which was perfect until 1.1.2.

I ran into situations like WTF just happened I'm dead out of sudden (I move and bam I'm dead my posted recap is up in this thread as example) out in the wild or dungeons. In solo questing situations like you click on "I'm ready" and in a few seconds you're dead. Sometimes you run into a group of 3 npc healers that obliterate you after you run out of anything you can throw out, without a chance to even flee. There are many things that may kill you instantly without you even noticing the threat. Trash mobs that can kill you in a few attacks that take 2-3 seconds for online game is too much.

LonePirate

Mephos wrote: »

I did correct that a little.

That people don´t understand how to play this game.
You got introduced in the tutorial to the different attacks, but yeah..

please.. just get slaughtered and then complain in the forums that the game is to hard. the true fact is that almost non of the players here who complain seem to understand the game mechanics

I have a question. How do you Shield Bash if you do not have a shield equipped?

Also, if you are attacking one mob in a pack of three, you may not notice or have enough response time to block a heavy attack from one of the other members of that pack. I don't know if that is the case here; but such a scenario happens to me frequently in VR zones.

JessieColt

Casters use Spells. Slot a Necklace or rings that Have spell resistance on them. These do not need to be your primary items, but you should keep them in your inventory as back-ups / gear change items, for those times when you do have to face high dmg spell casters.

As for the Dwemer constructs, they do shock dmg. Same as above, keep a Necklace/rings handy that provide shock resistance to help mitigate dmg from them.

Also, learn to interrupt. It really does help

Iorail

I don't think the people saying is a l2p issue have been to the Vr zones or are just saying so without reading just to troll. The fact of the matter is that not all Vr mobs do this kind of damage. Some do others don't, even when they are the same type. But, if you have a group of 3, 1 healer, one caster and 1 archer? Just keep walking because they will destroy you, I don't care who you are or what you do, cause the archers hit like a truck, the casters hit like a semi and healer will heal all 3 in seconds with the infinite magic pool, and that's a fact. And this are trash mobs, outside, most of the time part of a quest, not anything even remotely close to a dungeon mob, hell dungeon bosses are easier.

Something is broken, either our armor and spell resist, or the damage they can dish out or the heals they can do, or all of it, who knows anyway, the real question here is what's not broken anyway.....

Worstluck

Just go to a delve in Cyrodiil. Then go to a delve in whatever VR5 zone is your faction. Not every NPC in VR1-10 zones is doing crazy damage, but some are. You will notice a difference.

cyrodiil = easy delve clear (also VR5 mobs, what it used to be like)
VR5 zone = die on first three pack to some crocodiles or a group with a healer

Fyrakin

Worstluck wrote: »

Just go to a delve in Cyrodiil. Then go to a delve in whatever VR5 zone is your faction. Not every NPC in VR1-10 zones is doing crazy damage, but some are. You will notice a difference.

cyrodiil = easy delve clear (also VR5 mobs, what it used to be like)
VR5 zone = die on first three pack.

Perhaps its because you have some stat bonuses in Cyrodiil?

Worstluck

No. I turn the battle stats off on my VR12?. My stats are actually worse in Cyrodil.

Fyrakin

Worstluck wrote: »

No. I turn the battle stats off on my VR12?. My stats are actually worse in Cyrodil.

Then it is indeed curious difference. I've never been in any delve on Cyrodiil, so I can't compare on my own experience.

Mephos

LonePirate wrote: »

Mephos wrote: »

I did correct that a little.

That people don´t understand how to play this game.
You got introduced in the tutorial to the different attacks, but yeah..

please.. just get slaughtered and then complain in the forums that the game is to hard. the true fact is that almost non of the players here who complain seem to understand the game mechanics

I have a question. How do you Shield Bash if you do not have a shield equipped?

Also, if you are attacking one mob in a pack of three, you may not notice or have enough response time to block a heavy attack from one of the other members of that pack. I don't know if that is the case here; but such a scenario happens to me frequently in VR zones.

yeah, shield bash is maybe the wrong word, sorry for my poor english but I just can´t remember the word for the "cancel" thingy that you can do with all weapons. If you press right mouse button and the left your character will make a "bash" and interrupts casts.

EDIT: I bet most of these l2p peeps are staff carrying, aoe spamming, DK's and Sorcs.

I play a temp, any other things to say?

---

Also, if you are attacking one mob in a pack of three, you may not notice or have enough response time to block a heavy attack from one of the other members of that pack. I don't know if that is the case here; but such a scenario happens to me frequently in VR zones.

NPCs have in 70% of all cases the same behaviour. No matter of monster or what ever if you know one you know all (like all bears will do the same, all wolfs etc. no matter if level 1 or VET12)

archer will always do: autohit, cone attack (charge), aoe attack (charge)
sorc will always do: autohit, cone attack - more a long line (charge), aoe attack (charge)
melee: autohit, throw dagger (charge) , heavy attack (charge, block it), aoe (charge, only assassin type)

every charge attack must be or should be blocked.. the rest is tank and spank

however, I highly suggest to CC monsters as far as you can. this is one of the best ways to deal with certain types

CaptainSilverbrow

Worstluck wrote: »

Just go to a delve in Cyrodiil. Then go to a delve in whatever VR5 zone is your faction. Not every NPC in VR1-10 zones is doing crazy damage, but some are. You will notice a difference.

cyrodiil = easy delve clear (also VR5 mobs, what it used to be like)
VR5 zone = die on first three pack to some crocodiles or a group with a healer

This. I've also noticed this. I wasn't sure if it was because Cyrodiil's mobs are scaled with the lower leveled players in mind, were never really scaled and are just glorified L50 mobs worth VR points, or if Cyrodiil's mobs are just right, neither too hot nor cold.

born2beagator

I'm just glad the l2p crowd is a minority. All I know Is I am going to an alt until zenimax tones down vr trash mobs. Having an epic fight with random overwold trash mobs is not my idea of fun

irishdexy

All I know is that I am fed up of trying to quest in the VR Zones. When I buy a game I want to have fun, enjoy my time and forget about whatever horrible experiences I've had throughout the day. I suspect a lot of you guys play games for the same reason.

When I quest now in VR Land on my VR10 I get my ass handed to me on a plate with dressing and fancy lid, yes it's getting that bad. I rolled a NB who uses Stamina (we all know the problem with that..) and all through leveling I had little problems with him and I loved that Character. Now the Mobs hit like trucks on Nitro and it's not "fun" to quest when you have to put 120% effort into not dying. All I want and suspect what a lot of you want is to be able to kill mobs, survive and feel like you are getting somewhere.

The whole "L2P" Argument is flawed because not all of us have 12 Hours a day to sit and hone our skills while we go out and work our asses off to pay our bills taxes, you name it. Why can't people just accept that games are meant to be fun and enjoyable. If you want a challenge that's fine but don't ruin the experience of everyone else.

NB - Fun and Enjoyable game play is not rofl stomping the enemy btw, there is such a thing as a normal balance enemy not one with the XP of an normal VR enemy but has the Attack points of a Uber boss!

please put the Mobs back before thei fiasco started Zenimax please..

Khivas_Carrick

I have been saying Veteran Ranked NPCs/Mobs have been overpowered for ages, and not because of my class or some silly bug or glitch, but because they are honestly overtuned to be way too strong for a single player to handle alone. I've always, even before the Templar Nerfs, had trouble fighting mobs at Vet Ranks, especially if it was groups of 3, because they eat damage like it's nothing and deal dumb strong dps to you in return with little to no way to really mitigate enough of it to matter.

All Vet Rank mobs need their damage nerfed, this, this is just plain fact at this point I think.

Khivas_Carrick

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Mephos wrote: »

I did correct that a little.

That people don´t understand how to play this game.
You got introduced in the tutorial to the different attacks, but yeah..

please.. just get slaughtered and then complain in the forums that the game is to hard. the true fact is that almost non of the players here who complain seem to understand the game mechanics

I doubt that even you can interrupt 2 or more at the same time. PLUS, the damn interrupt animation don't work half the damn time due to combat lag, I have to guess half the damn time to interrupt.

You l2p peeps can have your f2p game to enjoy in a few months.

If the damn combat mechanics worked half the time damn in the game it would be a lot easier.

EDIT: I bet most of these l2p peeps are staff carrying, aoe spamming, DK's and Sorcs.

Also, to add, we all have ways to interrupt, yes, hell I have a charge that does an aoe interrupt, and it's lovely, but the problem here is maintaining the resources to do so, which is nigh on impossible for 2/4 classes in the game, and harder still if you're a melee user.

Just saying >_> Don't hate me, I hate myself enough thank you.

Yankee

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Mephos wrote: »

I did correct that a little.

That people don´t understand how to play this game.
You got introduced in the tutorial to the different attacks, but yeah..

please.. just get slaughtered and then complain in the forums that the game is to hard. the true fact is that almost non of the players here who complain seem to understand the game mechanics

I doubt that even you can interrupt 2 or more at the same time. PLUS, the damn interrupt animation don't work half the damn time due to combat lag, I have to guess half the damn time to interrupt.

You l2p peeps can have your f2p game to enjoy in a few months.

If the damn combat mechanics worked half the time damn in the game it would be a lot easier.

EDIT: I bet most of these l2p peeps are staff carrying, aoe spamming, DK's and Sorcs.

I have never told anyone "L2P", I think that is rude. Also, if a large enough percentage of the player base is having difficulty in VR they do need to tone down mob damage. An empty MMO will not be a fun game.

I do not see a lot of combat lag when playing in PVE. If there was, it would be much more difficult. I am not convinced many of these complaints are server side, and the developers cannot help if the users system/internet is not reponsive enough.

And even us "OP" 7/7 tissue paper armor wearing sorcerers die if we do not block, interrupt, or dodge mob special attacks.

Firegael

You guys just prompted me to create a post about this. Please let me know if it is helpful to you.

The topic.

LariahHunding

Firegael wrote: »

You guys just prompted me to create a post about this. Please let me know if it is helpful to you.

The topic.

Explain to how you can play melee against 2-3 mobs and block, interrupt, etc. everything.

That is the reason ESO is turning into Casters Scrolls Online, you can cast and block at the same time.

But let me regression, I can play like this at VR5, but I AIN"T enjoying it. Ever fight with 2-4 mobs is a fight to the death, Others may enjoy it, to each their own.

BUT, I could live with this and be content, if VR content had a purpose, drops, skills, some rewards other just LEVELING.

1-50 had a over-riding theme, defeat the big bad one that at least covered up the leveling. 1-50 was a thought out, and design properly.

VR content, OH CRAP CRAGLORN IS NOT READY WE GOT TO DO SOMETHING!!

LariahHunding

Sorc and DK have already killed everything, you don't have to block much.

I watch them burn down 3-4 trash mobs like nothing, not blocking anything.

Yankee

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc and DK have already killed everything, you don't have to block much.

I watch them burn down 3-4 trash mobs like nothing, not blocking anything.

With Immovable up you cannot be stunned/knocked down and it is possible to survive with some self healing. But if you get hit with two specials at once it can still be game over so you better kill quick.

I actually prefer to buff up mitigation (Lightning Form) and block/interupt any specials I see happening because that stuns the mob and takes them out of the fight for a bit.

Using a destro staff what stops the other 2 classes from creating an AoE build? Impulse and Inner Light, Volcanic Rune. Some mitigation spell and a means to heal.

Actually, Volcanic Rune to keep stuff knocked down alternating with Impulse often mobs do not even get a chance to hit you, so you do not need much healing.

But...that also means light armor and all the passives for good magicka regen and pool. AoE takes a lot of Magicka and if you run out before mobs are dead then you are toast on any class.

This fixation on DK and Sorcerer AoE is overblown as I have seen Templar/NB doing it too.

The problem is the stamina build playstyle for many in VR does not work or takes a higher skill cap, and ZOS needs to look at it.

Mithlob

I'm with Mephos for that last image but in all serious that particular image IS a "l2p" issue or a connectivity issue which is all on you. If you are stealthing and one shotting one mob in a pack of three (assumption) and then not going on the defensive (blocking/interrupting) then you really do deserve to die. Its Veteran content and no longer the tutorial.

Wavemoore

I've seen some of the expected learn to play comments. While none of them seem to be directed at me specifically, since I was the OP I can't help but take them personally.

I suppose it's arguable, but I do know how to play. I block when I can/should and interrupt when I can/should. I'm a sorc btw, V8, almost V9.

In the V8 zone is when I started noticing the ramp up in damage of the casters. In Greenshade in particular, the group makeup (near the end of the zone) was almost always 2 casters, 1 melee. And a lot of 2 imp or 1 imp/spriggan combinations.

The imps would spread, so I could easily interrupt the one I was on and burn them down. However, the 2nd one would be happily blasting me with that damn beam they have that does 1500-2000 dmg. I'd be dead on most of those encounters if my ultimate wasn't up.

The same is true of the 3 packs that had 2 casters. Getting one caster down was easy, but the 2nd caster and melee had their way with me. And if there's a healer caster combo, then forget it.

So yes, for me, the damage output was too high to be expected reasonable. That was the whole point of my post in the hopes that someone would look at it. I see many others agree with my point of view, so it's not an isolated incident.

I hope someone at Zenimax will take a look at this and determine if it's intended. If it is, I guess I'll keep ghost walking my way through the quests, as I certainly don't expect it to get any easier.

Cyrus The Virus

You are the HERO in this game and the killer of kings assassins, the slayer of beasts, vampires and werewolfs. But those damn 2 imps you cannot kill...