Reasons why NB DW/BOW stamina builds will never be competitive compared to other class archetypes

Doriangray

I have taken this from Reddit. I'm only copying it here with the purpose of informing future players since I agree with the OP...considering that nightblade archetype skill...dark cloak.. is still bugged two months after into the release of the game, you can assume how bugged this class really is. I feel really disappointed considering I did a 6 month sub. I hate to be a burden to my guild mates after putting so much effort into my Nightblade. After reading this if you still have any doubts, refer to this thread > http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dk-solos-craglorn/ ... I dare you to the same thing this dk is doing with a nightblade or even just come close to what he is doing for that matter before shouting " L2P "... lol.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/26ozbw/reasons_why_nb_dwbow_stamina_builds_will_never_be/
Here's the OP's opinion:
Veteran Rank 12 Night Blade here. Close to max gear for Dual Wield NB bow (PVP V12 Dominion Bow, Hundings rage set , Nights silence set, Night mother set , epic/legendary etc. At least 54% weapon critical for bow and dw. I know this class inside out (in this stamina department at least).
When I chose this class I wanted to Dual wield/bow and I've stuck to it because that's how I see NB's intended to play and how I want to play it. I've always tried to push it to the maximum efficiency even when I know that ill never beat a casters DPS. Done everything in this game except for fourth boss AA trial and the entire Hel Ra.This will be a long post. If anyone is interested in what the Maximum effectiveness of a Dual wield/BOW DPS NB can achieve in a group dungeon or trials compared to other classes then read on.
Heres a small class breakdown of what I've seen in the game regarding PVE in the trials and dungeons in Craglorn.
Sorcerer- Designed to be used as casters can wear light armor and be competitive by achieving dps only second to fire destro dk and OP banner. Their class serves a purpose.
Dragonknight- Designed to be tanky/some dps but completely OP at the moment with best mitagation sustain and DPS by far. No need to say more, although I rather ESO not nerf them and just balances classes to their level. Their class obviously serves a purpose and in trials (almost necessary.)
Templar- Designed to be healers/tanky. Don't know too much about temp skills but they do their job well in PVE trials from what I've seen. Their class serves a purpose as well.
Nightblades- Designed to be Dual wield/bow users with high single target sustained damage. Does not compare to the Single target damage of sorc's caster sustainable dps as a NB bow user or DW user. This class serves no purpose if you play as dual wield/bow in groups because other classes can DPS better. If I wanted to play a caster DPS I would have rolled a sorc. Even though I can match or out DPS really casual Sorcs and Dks, for the amount of time, effort, and theory crafting that I put into my Nightblade, I honestly think I should be doing way more especially since NB was designed to be played like this.
Reasons why NB Stamina builds will never beat sorc casters or any caster's DPS even when pushed to the maximum with gear and skill selection.
Bow DPS- You can only use bows to maximum effectiveness if you are at max range while damaging enemy because you want that bow passive that gives you damage bonus when at max range. Even at max range, the DPS is still lower than sorcs because magicka abilities do a crap ton more damage per cast. The problem with these trials is alot of the times the enemies would be in your face and thats when your DPS takes a hit. If you weapon swap, thats already a huge decrease in DPS on the target because weapon swap although it has gotten better, is still not instantaneous like it should be and really the delay is not worth it to weapon swap when getting an enemy down RIGHT NOW is crucial for the survivability of the group. A class like sorcs on the other hand, do the same sustainable damage no matter what range they are and that DPS is better than what NBs can achieve with bow at max range.
Dual Wield DPS- Dual wield single target DPS is really not great for hard dungeons especially when you factor in the number of bosses or enemies that have to be downed from RANGE. I use dual wield for my AOE skills like steel tornado/ power extraction. Also for craglorn, if your running as DPS in your group and you dont have decent AOE spammable spell, you might as well just consider yourself a complete burden and waste of a party slot because all trash requires high AOE Damage.
Siphoning Strikes- I hate and love this skill. IMO this is one of the best NB abilities in the game as it allows you to have very high sustain on magicka and stamina and this is especially important for stamina based builds because you need to spam stamina abilities as well as do things like dodge roll and cc break. I hate this skill because it requires a sacrifice of 22% of my weapon damage and spell power in order for it to be used. Why is the damage nerf so high? Especially since NB's in general are already lacking in the DPS department compared to other classes. But I must use it for long Boss fights because 0 stamina= crap DPS.
Haste- On paper, this skill sounds like one of the best abilities weapon users could have in the game and is one of the reasons that drew me into choosing NBs because I like to attack as fast as possible in RPGs. But to achieve maximum DPS in this game you have to use basic attacks while animation canceling with weapon skills like venom arrow to shoot 2 arrows in a second. I don't even know even if they fixed this skill that it would give me any noticeable increase because of the way DPS is achieved in this game by animation canceling. So even after this skill is fixed this skill might be completely useless. Sorcs on the other hand get a skill like Surge that gives them something like +90 weapon damage for 30 seconds allowing them to achieve the highest weapon damage possible in the game for Single Target stamina abilities as well. So please explain to me why Sorcerers that are already the best casters can also achieve the highest possible weapon damage for single target( don't count power extraction) when NB's must be hit with a -22% weapon damage toggle in order to do any real sustainable dps with Stamina abilities.
Mark Target- Reduces enemy armor and spell resistance by 75% but also reduces your own armor and spell resist by the same amount. Again another example of a skill for night blade that has the potential to be amazing like siphoning strikes but comes at a huge drawback and not a great advantage considering mobs dont have high armor. Sorcs surge and Dk molten weapons increase their weapon damage with no drawbacks and even pass it on to the entire group while Mark Target can only be seen by the NB caster and only benefit the NB caster who does the worst DPS anyway.
PVP(off topic)- Small rant on PVP:
In a huge open enviroment like Cyrodill, really there is nothing comparable to the ability Bolt Escape. This ability might not be that powerful in a small enclosed area but we are in a huuuuge area where you can blink 20 miles away in a second to escape from danger and regenerate all your resources to reengage and destroy your enemy in an instant and rinse repeat especially with the burst potential of sorcs. Sorcs argue that they are squishy light armor so they need this but from what I've seen veteran 12 light armor sorcs with 3k+ hp are just as tanky as anyone else and they have bolt escape...Compared to NBs that have a 2.9 second invisibility and even if you spammed it, is not really comparable to instantly moving 20 miles away with the speed of bolt escape. IMO they need to buff path of darkness to give us at least 50% movespeed and NOT ONLY ON THE EFFING TINY PATH but ALWAYS for like 10-20 seconds. One of the biggest annoyances in Cyrodill is that it feels like a walking simulator even if you have a fast horse the area is so big and you can't always teleport to keeps. I'm not sure why only sorcs are able to have this huge advantage compared to other classes to just generally enjoy the gameplay of cyrodill much more.Especially if you roll with a group of sorcs and you have like 1 or 2 members that aren't sorcs, you cant catch up to them and you feel like you are dragging them down because you can be as fast as them.
TLDR- At the current state of the game NB stamina builds ( the way NB's were mainly designed to be played IMO) will never be competitive compared to casters because:
-Bow does Crap DPS at close range, DW does crap DPS at any range, and no DPS when you have to run around.- -Caster do the same sustainable DPS with 1 hotbar at ANY range. -Magicka abilities do way more damage then stamina -Our best resource sustain ability siphoning strikes reduces our weapon damage by 22%. -Haste even when fixed may not do anything at all. To do to highest DPS in this game you need to achieve it by animation canceling. -Sorc's achieve way higher weapon damage then NBs with Surge. -Critical strike passive and others not working (not entirely sure) - Mark Target 75% armor reduction isnt a big deal because mobs don't have that much armor and it doesnt give you a big increase.
Offtopic - PVPing is much less enjoyable do to huge landscape unless you are a high level sorc with bolt escape. Running with a group of sorcs you feel like you are a slug compared to them and if you can't travel together efficiently as a group you feel like a burden.
I've spent alot of time on this game to get to V12 and have close to max gear but one thing I'm not going to do in this game is to re-roll a sorc or DK or play a caster NB with resto staff. If the next patch does not buff NB DW/BOW DPS builds to the level of a Sorc, DK or caster I'm unsubscribing."

Apom

damn my ADD....

subecsanur

Bump, just want to keep pushing this up since I agree on the fact on how despite all the NB's investing time and effort to get there it has completely been worthless and making it irrelevant without adapting to some cookie cutter mold of staf NB's

Turelus

I will admit I didn't read the wall of text so I need to ask.
Does that wall at any point address how things could be made better or improved or is the entire thing just "waaaa not as good as other fix this!!!" ?

Dagus

stamina is unsustainable as a damage resource.
you use it to run, you use it to block, and you are forced to also use it for attacks too? thats silly to me.

break TES tradition and just make a resource for stamina based attacks.
the triple dipping has to stop. I know they/you (zeni) want to keep the game as close to TES tradition as possible, but you have to keep in mind that this is an MMO. This is not Skyrim Multiplayer. I don't care that YOU made it, I don't care what you wanted it to be. give it up. we know what we want, and if you want to make money you have to cater to the community, that's just how it works.

Oogly

Turelus wrote: »

I will admit I didn't read the wall of text so I need to ask.
Does that wall at any point address how things could be made better or improved or is the entire thing just "waaaa not as good as other fix this!!!" ?

There's some suggestions on Mark Target, Haste, Path of Darkness and Siphoning Strikes. The reworking of the range requirement of the bow passives is kinda implied.

Anyways, it's nothing that hasnt been said before and it doesnt take that long to read it.

Asasinka

Agree, it has great potential but has to be fixed. NB DW

Arsenic_Touch

Pretty much covers my play style and my gripes. Stamina based abilities Need too much work.

Rammi

I have the same issues! Good post.

nerevarine1138

I have none of his issues with dual-wield/bow Nightblades, but I do have a lot of issues with his inability to understand how classes work in this game.

No class is intended to fill a specific role. None of them. Nightblades aren't "built" for dual-wield/bow any more than Dragonknights are. Sorcerers aren't supposed to be lightly armored casters. They can be, but they don't have to.

Most class issues in this game would be solved if people stopped treating the classes as fixed molds for how one is "supposed to play." Every class can fill every role equally well.

Oogly

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Most class issues in this game would be solved if people stopped treating the classes as fixed molds for how one is "supposed to play." Every class can fill every role equally well.

Only they cant and that's exactly what's bothering ppl. The fact that their preferred playstyle is nowhere near as effective as what other classes are doing.
It has absolutely nothing to do with molds. Is it really that shocking that a lot of NB players want to run around with a bow and dual wield? *gasp* Who would have thought!

Xnemesis

They just need to either reward more stamina on gear or reduce the cost of stamina abilities. Please fix haste as well it does nothing and make the 22% damage reduction like 10% when using single target and then make it so it +2% reduction per additional enemy to a max of 20% so that it doesn't become op for AOE users who would spam power extraction. Its morph bypasses AoE cap to hit 9 players by design so I had to cap it at 20% to not make the ability complete crap.

Quaesivi

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I have none of his issues with dual-wield/bow Nightblades, but I do have a lot of issues with his inability to understand how classes work in this game.

No class is intended to fill a specific role. None of them. Nightblades aren't "built" for dual-wield/bow any more than Dragonknights are. Sorcerers aren't supposed to be lightly armored casters. They can be, but they don't have to.

Most class issues in this game would be solved if people stopped treating the classes as fixed molds for how one is "supposed to play." Every class can fill every role equally well.

The main problem here is no class is apparently meant to be played with Stamina, even if there are skills like that, you are actually ending up gimping yourself, so for some reason, we have a whole resource bar that gets even worse in managing when its size increase, because for some ridiculous reason, all that dodging and escaping abilities are based on a %, which ends up actually punishing you if you are using Stamina for anything else and want to have more, but you are limitless on the way you can go with Magicka bar.
Any class can be anything they want, as long as it has nothing to do with Stamina.

Xnemesis

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I have none of his issues with dual-wield/bow Nightblades, but I do have a lot of issues with his inability to understand how classes work in this game.

No class is intended to fill a specific role. None of them. Nightblades aren't "built" for dual-wield/bow any more than Dragonknights are. Sorcerers aren't supposed to be lightly armored casters. They can be, but they don't have to.

Most class issues in this game would be solved if people stopped treating the classes as fixed molds for how one is "supposed to play." Every class can fill every role equally well.

I agree all builds should be viable and I love that I have seen heavy armor wearing 2-handed sword carrying sorcs. The problem is with making the complete opposite of what a class is generally seen as the best option. If they wanted to not have classes then they should have made all the skill lines from all four classes available to all players so that they could mix and match. You cant define a class then say you have no definition. Bottom line is they screwed up. I love the game I am just curious as to what they plan on doing to fix it. I block, roll, sprint, and stealth. These all cost stamina on a non fixed amount. They are percent based. We are getting hammered on our stam pool which leaves almost nothing left for abilities.... hope you understand a little better now why people are upset.

dbennett707cub18_ESO

This post is so full of exaggerations I don't know how you're supposed to think people will take it seriously, I'd re-write it with more factual information and try again.

The sad thing is you have some valid points.

Necronomicon

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

This post is so full of exaggerations I don't know how you're supposed to think people will take it seriously, I'd re-write it with more factual information and try again.

The sad thing is you have some valid points.

Go back to your sorc.

ShintaiDK

Everytime a player picks a stamina based ability for damage, there is laughter heard from the Zenimax office.

dbennett707cub18_ESO

Necronomicon wrote: »

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

This post is so full of exaggerations I don't know how you're supposed to think people will take it seriously, I'd re-write it with more factual information and try again.

The sad thing is you have some valid points.

Go back to your sorc.

You mean my NB. Critical surge gives +90 dmg, sounds legit, ***.

eliisra

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Most class issues in this game would be solved if people stopped treating the classes as fixed molds for how one is "supposed to play." Every class can fill every role equally well.

They can't. My sorcerer will never be able to:

Heal like a Templar
Tank and DPS like DK
Sneak gank people in PvP like a NB

We can all fill the same roles or achieve similar builds in theory, yes. But we do it with way less efficiency, depending on class. We all have our passives and class skills, making us more suitable for doing certain things.

To me, that's not 100% freedom to fill any role you like. Not when the guy next to me does it more effectively and with less effort, based on class.

nerevarine1138

I love that people are complaining about stamina skills in a thread that's supposedly about how Nightblades are underpowered. Those are weapon skills. They are meant to be combined with your class skills in order for you to be effective.

I have almost constant up time on my Quick Strikes/Blood Craze because apparently I can read tooltips properly. You have a veritable arsenal of class abilities that supercharge your stamina regen rate. If you aren't using them, that's your own fault.

P.S. My Nightblade does fine DPS in groups. My alt Nightblade is a kickass healer. And some of the best tanks I've seen in this game are Nightblades. So tell me again that every class can't fill every role.

Arreyanne

Pretty much spot on review of NB

Doriangray

@nerevarine1138
Stamina regen has a cap like all the other regens. Blood craze is the only weapon skill I use on my bar anyway. It's just more viable to rely on magicka based abilities since Stamina is used for many other things. I mean a cc break alone takes about 50% of your bar if you don't have a certain set bonus.
If you look at the trial leader-boards, you'll seldom see a nightblade. and that's factual information. " Fine DPS " doesn't mean anything. And like I mentioned about the whole " L2P" If your nightblade is so powerful as you put it, do the same thing that Dk is doing in the video . If you can't record the video, just invite me to the group so I watch how you die over and over. I'm a v11.
Can't wait to see till you solo all those elites with your "powerful" nightblade.

SWEtree

4 of my friends quit the game after they hit VT10 with this class. A minor ragequit but if they dont fix this class and the bow tree alot more ppl will quit the game. VERY GOOD post. I agree 100%

(make sure to keep this post bumped)

nerevarine1138

Doriangray wrote: »

@nerevarine1138
Stamina regen has a cap like all the other regens. Blood craze is the only weapon skill I use on my bar anyway. It's just more viable to rely on magicka based abilities since Stamina is used for many other things. I mean a cc break alone takes about 50% of your bar if you don't have a certain set bonus.
If you look at the trial leader-boards, you'll seldom see a nightblade. and that's factual information. " Fine DPS " doesn't mean anything. And like I mentioned about the whole " L2P" If your nightblade is so powerful as you put it, do the same thing that Dk is doing in the video . If you can't record the video, just invite me to the group so I watch how you die over and over. I'm a v11.
Can't wait to see till you solo all those elites with your "powerful" nightblade.

Holy crap! A dual-wield/bow DK soloed Craglorn?!?!?!?! And not just trash mobs?!?!?!

Oh, hang on a tick...

Doriangray

@‌eliisra
You don't need to be a nightblade to gank in PVP. I would love to see how you gank a v12 sorc who knows how to play after you open up from the stealth and he breaks stun and he uses mage bolt.... It's clear that you have no information regarding different class abilities. Please refrain from commenting when you don't know what you're talking about. Like I mentioned before, majority of trial leaders are Sorcs and Dks, and the reason is quite clear.

dbennett707cub18_ESO

Doriangray wrote: »

@‌eliisra
You don't need to be a nightblade to gank in PVP. I would love to see how you gank a v12 sorc who knows how to play after you open up from the stealth and he breaks stun and he uses mage bolt.... It's clear that you have no information regarding different class abilities. Please refrain from commenting when you don't know what you're talking about. Like I mentioned before, majority of trial leaders are Sorcs and Dks, and the reason is quite clear.

Quick Siphon exploiting is part of the reason also. This needs to be fixxed ASAP.

Doriangray

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Doriangray wrote: »

@nerevarine1138
Stamina regen has a cap like all the other regens. Blood craze is the only weapon skill I use on my bar anyway. It's just more viable to rely on magicka based abilities since Stamina is used for many other things. I mean a cc break alone takes about 50% of your bar if you don't have a certain set bonus.
If you look at the trial leader-boards, you'll seldom see a nightblade. and that's factual information. " Fine DPS " doesn't mean anything. And like I mentioned about the whole " L2P" If your nightblade is so powerful as you put it, do the same thing that Dk is doing in the video . If you can't record the video, just invite me to the group so I watch how you die over and over. I'm a v11.
Can't wait to see till you solo all those elites with your "powerful" nightblade.

Holy crap! A dual-wield/bow DK soloed Craglorn?!?!?!?! And not just trash mobs?!?!?!

Oh, hang on a tick...

Obviously he did not solo a whole thing ...lol
I don't care what combination you use to get as far as he did, Whatever you want to. As long as you show me it's possible with night blade. Oh and please try to be as sarcastic as possible when you die on the first trash pull. It makes it more fun to watch

yetskiiub17_ESO

The problem as I see it, is that people want to play a True Ranger Build, but cannot, due to the stamina issues,,,,

Teevesnacks

Doriangray wrote: »

I have taken this from Reddit. I'm only copying it here with the purpose of informing future players since I agree with the OP...considering that nightblade archetype skill...dark cloak.. is still bugged two months after into the release of the game, you can assume how bugged this class really is. I feel really disappointed considering I did a 6 month sub. I hate to be a burden to my guild mates after putting so much effort into my Nightblade. After reading this if you still have any doubts, refer to this thread > http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dk-solos-craglorn/ ... I dare you to the same thing this dk is doing with a nightblade or even just come close to what he is doing for that matter before shouting " L2P "... lol.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/26ozbw/reasons_why_nb_dwbow_stamina_builds_will_never_be/
Here's the OP's opinion:
Veteran Rank 12 Night Blade here. Close to max gear for Dual Wield NB bow (PVP V12 Dominion Bow, Hundings rage set , Nights silence set, Night mother set , epic/legendary etc. At least 54% weapon critical for bow and dw. I know this class inside out (in this stamina department at least).
When I chose this class I wanted to Dual wield/bow and I've stuck to it because that's how I see NB's intended to play and how I want to play it. I've always tried to push it to the maximum efficiency even when I know that ill never beat a casters DPS. Done everything in this game except for fourth boss AA trial and the entire Hel Ra.This will be a long post. If anyone is interested in what the Maximum effectiveness of a Dual wield/BOW DPS NB can achieve in a group dungeon or trials compared to other classes then read on.
Heres a small class breakdown of what I've seen in the game regarding PVE in the trials and dungeons in Craglorn.
Sorcerer- Designed to be used as casters can wear light armor and be competitive by achieving dps only second to fire destro dk and OP banner. Their class serves a purpose.
Dragonknight- Designed to be tanky/some dps but completely OP at the moment with best mitagation sustain and DPS by far. No need to say more, although I rather ESO not nerf them and just balances classes to their level. Their class obviously serves a purpose and in trials (almost necessary.)
Templar- Designed to be healers/tanky. Don't know too much about temp skills but they do their job well in PVE trials from what I've seen. Their class serves a purpose as well.
Nightblades- Designed to be Dual wield/bow users with high single target sustained damage. Does not compare to the Single target damage of sorc's caster sustainable dps as a NB bow user or DW user. This class serves no purpose if you play as dual wield/bow in groups because other classes can DPS better. If I wanted to play a caster DPS I would have rolled a sorc. Even though I can match or out DPS really casual Sorcs and Dks, for the amount of time, effort, and theory crafting that I put into my Nightblade, I honestly think I should be doing way more especially since NB was designed to be played like this.
Reasons why NB Stamina builds will never beat sorc casters or any caster's DPS even when pushed to the maximum with gear and skill selection.
Bow DPS- You can only use bows to maximum effectiveness if you are at max range while damaging enemy because you want that bow passive that gives you damage bonus when at max range. Even at max range, the DPS is still lower than sorcs because magicka abilities do a crap ton more damage per cast. The problem with these trials is alot of the times the enemies would be in your face and thats when your DPS takes a hit. If you weapon swap, thats already a huge decrease in DPS on the target because weapon swap although it has gotten better, is still not instantaneous like it should be and really the delay is not worth it to weapon swap when getting an enemy down RIGHT NOW is crucial for the survivability of the group. A class like sorcs on the other hand, do the same sustainable damage no matter what range they are and that DPS is better than what NBs can achieve with bow at max range.
Dual Wield DPS- Dual wield single target DPS is really not great for hard dungeons especially when you factor in the number of bosses or enemies that have to be downed from RANGE. I use dual wield for my AOE skills like steel tornado/ power extraction. Also for craglorn, if your running as DPS in your group and you dont have decent AOE spammable spell, you might as well just consider yourself a complete burden and waste of a party slot because all trash requires high AOE Damage.
Siphoning Strikes- I hate and love this skill. IMO this is one of the best NB abilities in the game as it allows you to have very high sustain on magicka and stamina and this is especially important for stamina based builds because you need to spam stamina abilities as well as do things like dodge roll and cc break. I hate this skill because it requires a sacrifice of 22% of my weapon damage and spell power in order for it to be used. Why is the damage nerf so high? Especially since NB's in general are already lacking in the DPS department compared to other classes. But I must use it for long Boss fights because 0 stamina= crap DPS.
Haste- On paper, this skill sounds like one of the best abilities weapon users could have in the game and is one of the reasons that drew me into choosing NBs because I like to attack as fast as possible in RPGs. But to achieve maximum DPS in this game you have to use basic attacks while animation canceling with weapon skills like venom arrow to shoot 2 arrows in a second. I don't even know even if they fixed this skill that it would give me any noticeable increase because of the way DPS is achieved in this game by animation canceling. So even after this skill is fixed this skill might be completely useless. Sorcs on the other hand get a skill like Surge that gives them something like +90 weapon damage for 30 seconds allowing them to achieve the highest weapon damage possible in the game for Single Target stamina abilities as well. So please explain to me why Sorcerers that are already the best casters can also achieve the highest possible weapon damage for single target( don't count power extraction) when NB's must be hit with a -22% weapon damage toggle in order to do any real sustainable dps with Stamina abilities.
Mark Target- Reduces enemy armor and spell resistance by 75% but also reduces your own armor and spell resist by the same amount. Again another example of a skill for night blade that has the potential to be amazing like siphoning strikes but comes at a huge drawback and not a great advantage considering mobs dont have high armor. Sorcs surge and Dk molten weapons increase their weapon damage with no drawbacks and even pass it on to the entire group while Mark Target can only be seen by the NB caster and only benefit the NB caster who does the worst DPS anyway.
PVP(off topic)- Small rant on PVP:
In a huge open enviroment like Cyrodill, really there is nothing comparable to the ability Bolt Escape. This ability might not be that powerful in a small enclosed area but we are in a huuuuge area where you can blink 20 miles away in a second to escape from danger and regenerate all your resources to reengage and destroy your enemy in an instant and rinse repeat especially with the burst potential of sorcs. Sorcs argue that they are squishy light armor so they need this but from what I've seen veteran 12 light armor sorcs with 3k+ hp are just as tanky as anyone else and they have bolt escape...Compared to NBs that have a 2.9 second invisibility and even if you spammed it, is not really comparable to instantly moving 20 miles away with the speed of bolt escape. IMO they need to buff path of darkness to give us at least 50% movespeed and NOT ONLY ON THE EFFING TINY PATH but ALWAYS for like 10-20 seconds. One of the biggest annoyances in Cyrodill is that it feels like a walking simulator even if you have a fast horse the area is so big and you can't always teleport to keeps. I'm not sure why only sorcs are able to have this huge advantage compared to other classes to just generally enjoy the gameplay of cyrodill much more.Especially if you roll with a group of sorcs and you have like 1 or 2 members that aren't sorcs, you cant catch up to them and you feel like you are dragging them down because you can be as fast as them.
TLDR- At the current state of the game NB stamina builds ( the way NB's were mainly designed to be played IMO) will never be competitive compared to casters because:
-Bow does Crap DPS at close range, DW does crap DPS at any range, and no DPS when you have to run around.- -Caster do the same sustainable DPS with 1 hotbar at ANY range. -Magicka abilities do way more damage then stamina -Our best resource sustain ability siphoning strikes reduces our weapon damage by 22%. -Haste even when fixed may not do anything at all. To do to highest DPS in this game you need to achieve it by animation canceling. -Sorc's achieve way higher weapon damage then NBs with Surge. -Critical strike passive and others not working (not entirely sure) - Mark Target 75% armor reduction isnt a big deal because mobs don't have that much armor and it doesnt give you a big increase.
Offtopic - PVPing is much less enjoyable do to huge landscape unless you are a high level sorc with bolt escape. Running with a group of sorcs you feel like you are a slug compared to them and if you can't travel together efficiently as a group you feel like a burden.
I've spent alot of time on this game to get to V12 and have close to max gear but one thing I'm not going to do in this game is to re-roll a sorc or DK or play a caster NB with resto staff. If the next patch does not buff NB DW/BOW DPS builds to the level of a Sorc, DK or caster I'm unsubscribing."

So this whole post was just to whine about other classes

nerevarine1138

Doriangray wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Doriangray wrote: »

@nerevarine1138
Stamina regen has a cap like all the other regens. Blood craze is the only weapon skill I use on my bar anyway. It's just more viable to rely on magicka based abilities since Stamina is used for many other things. I mean a cc break alone takes about 50% of your bar if you don't have a certain set bonus.
If you look at the trial leader-boards, you'll seldom see a nightblade. and that's factual information. " Fine DPS " doesn't mean anything. And like I mentioned about the whole " L2P" If your nightblade is so powerful as you put it, do the same thing that Dk is doing in the video . If you can't record the video, just invite me to the group so I watch how you die over and over. I'm a v11.
Can't wait to see till you solo all those elites with your "powerful" nightblade.

Holy crap! A dual-wield/bow DK soloed Craglorn?!?!?!?! And not just trash mobs?!?!?!

Oh, hang on a tick...

Obviously he did not solo a whole thing ...lol
I don't care what combination you use to get as far as he did, Whatever you want to. As long as you show me it's possible with night blade. Oh and please try to be as sarcastic as possible when you die on the first trash pull. It makes it more fun to watch

So you're ignoring the Nightblade video that shows a sword-and-board Nightblade soloing an entire VR dungeon, including bosses? And you're ignoring the fact that this thread is supposed to be about how a specific weapon combination is underpowered for this class only?

If you want to complain about how a weapon skill set is weak compared to other weapon skill sets, then don't make a thread about a specific class being underpowered. Otherwise, your point is completely nonsensical.

Doriangray

So this whole post was just to whine about other classes[/quote]

Yes! You're right. Thanks for pointing that out so nobody has to go through reading all that :l.