Make sure you WoWify the game

isengrimb16_ESO

Zxaxz wrote: »

Catflinger wrote: »

Funny. If they truly "Wowified" this game, they'd have a big variety of things to do at level 50. Some of those things would be geared towards solo players and some would be geared towards groups. Some would be daily quest content. Some of it would be extremely challenging raid content for the best, most elite players to obtain the best rewards in the game -gear, titles, mounts. That's just on the PvE side of things.

I see no "Wowification" happening. This dev team appears to be stubbornly resisting any temptation to "Wowify".

^ WoW 9 years of cartoon, Curse with a WoW skin, patches, updates, spam/ target/assist. OH, and guess what, SHIAT STILL BROKE, of a game.

"No one play's WoW, they play Curse with a WoW skin.", "Boss is going to attack in: 5 seconds", move out of the red shiat idiot......

Oh, hell, WoW just introduced proper telegraphs with Timless Isle and their silly jump-tigers and untankable snakes. Too bad those telegraphs are pretty poor - especially when compared to Wildstar. Frankly, while I no longer plan on playing it, I really wish Wildstar was out earlier and was my first MMO rather than WoW.

Aside - I can handle ESO jump senches easily with draining shot. Shove them backwards and daze the btards.

Daethz

I know how ZOS could make him enjoy the game, just make each mob including mudcrabs in the game so difficult it takes teams of 1 million players to kill even one.

isengrimb16_ESO

Heh, Daethz - I found the Dark Mane challenging - did it at level 41. I died once, but it let me see how he fought. Next time I went, I waited until he pulled those panther adds. that's when I hit both ultimate and lotus fan and started stabbing his face with killer's blade. It worked. I was surprised that it did.
-

Cogo

I agree with the OP

ESO is great! And keeps getting better!

My only concern is if they give in and make things to easy.
The increase of EXP in Cyro Worries me. I hope that was just a single thing and wount be a future change to make more a more simple.

BUT, so far there have been very little of that.

ESO has the best potential yet in ANY MMO to become the next EverQuest.

I love it! And have good hopes that Zenimax keeps their roadmap and dont do the same mistake as so many MMOs has during the years, who failed simply because instead of balancing and fixing the world. They buffed everything.

One of the best examples of this is Star wars Galaxies. They made a game, left some poor personell, and thought the game would be as good as EQ.

Star wars galaxies didnt take very long before they changed the long and hard work needed to be a jedi, to simply be able to be a jedi at start and everyone could do everything. No one ever complained in that game short history that ANYTHING was to hard after letting every playing be a jedi who could solo the whole game..

isengrimb16_ESO

@Cogo - not sure what difficulty you're talking about. I haven't been in vet ranks or craglorn yet. ESO combat is pretty challenging, at least compared to normal WoW combat; in fact, I'd say the quest bosses are not too unlike watered-down LFR bosses.

And I'm only saying watered-down on basis of recent experience that probably includes a minor increase in skill level.

If I happen to kill a boss with ease, I put it down to a combination of passives and dumb luck with roll-dodging.

Cogo

indytims_ESO wrote: »

Zeni is doing what most MMO companies do: they are working with a blueprint set by companies like Blizzard: tried and true methods of attracting large numbers of players, and making money. Zeni isn't an 'elitist pal'. They're a company trying to make bank. With 'easy mode' games being so popular and hard-mode games -not- being popular, common sense says they take what is proven to work, customize it, and try to make cash off of it. Simple economics.
rent in a game made by a for-profit company looking to cash in on the genre.

Ok, this was very mixed messages about ESO. You are very correct on a few, but I quoted what you not only are dead wrong on, but have you seen lately what ESO is doing? Have you followed the year development and information FROM ZENIMAX about the game, both years ago and current?

Zeni is NOT doing a damn thing what most MMOs companies do.

They do work with a blueprint, but the blueprint is their own.

I might see your confusion a bit.

What Zenimax created, was a base, plan, objective, possibly quote a few of creative people was involved in the project when creating the blueprint.

Zenimax has created a blueprint alright. A NEW TYPE OF MMO blueprint.

Yes, they have taken features, ideas, and things that been done in A LOT of games. The difference is that they have taken all that good info, processed it, changed/added and expanded on them, to create the blueprint for ESO.

Saying that Zenimax took a blueprint from games like WoW and their only goal is to be a bank, that is to say that WoW copied Everquest. Sure, both Everquest and Wow have races, classes, gold, quests, raid content and more.....but I would say that untill ESO, Everquest have been WoW complete opposite of "TYPE" of MMO.

And I can even back up the fact why ESO isnt just like over MMOs and just is a bank.

If they where. ESO would have an AH, Online price shop to buy respecs, changes you race and all those horrible things that the WoW player likes. And there is noting wrong with that.

ESO is ESO. They have a long term plan that makes sense in the game, not just what would get the most money.

Cogo

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO wrote: »

tripiseanb14_ESO wrote: »

Uhg! So frustrating. They finally go in and make the game harder and cave in to all the qqing the next day and roll back the changes. Why do MMOs have to be easy mode?! Why can't they be hard?!

Instead of making the game easy, why not make the game harder and maybe slightly increase the rewards, so people have an incentive to play the harder content. So that people in small groups of 2 or 3 have something they can do?

Why do you have to copy WoW and make the game easy?

MMOs used to be hard. EQ1 and UO used to be hard, I was so excited when I read that content got harder, but, alas, this morning we go back to pandering to the World of Warcraft generation, free kills for everyone.

Sigh. See ya out there y'all.

Simple answer - money. ZOS is here to make money, not to make a great MMO. MOST people want to have everything given to them instantly. So, MMOs make it easy - compass, quest markers on maps, simple quests, and buy your way to end game with top of the line equipment from a powerleveler, buy any exploits you need and - proudly strut around like you did something to earn what you have. Not everyone - no - but most, that is what makes money.

You are so wrong I lack words. Sure, they want to make money. Thats true. The rest is utter bollox.

Cogo

Catflinger wrote: »

Funny. If they truly "Wowified" this game, they'd have a big variety of things to do at level 50. Some of those things would be geared towards solo players and some would be geared towards groups. Some would be daily quest content. Some of it would be extremely challenging raid content for the best, most elite players to obtain the best rewards in the game -gear, titles, mounts. That's just on the PvE side of things.

I see no "Wowification" happening. This dev team appears to be stubbornly resisting any temptation to "Wowify".

Exactly! And why are you one of the few people who can see that?

isengrimb16_ESO

It is possible to want to make money AND make a quality product too. That's just one thing lost in modern day want it now cheap cheap cheap mindset, never mind factory jobs lost to vulture countries.

Blackwidow

NiRN wrote: »

I used the LOL as a negative.

Isn't that your signature move?

isengrimb16_ESO

Cogo wrote: »

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO wrote: »

tripiseanb14_ESO wrote: »

Uhg! So frustrating. They finally go in and make the game harder and cave in to all the qqing the next day and roll back the changes. Why do MMOs have to be easy mode?! Why can't they be hard?!

Instead of making the game easy, why not make the game harder and maybe slightly increase the rewards, so people have an incentive to play the harder content. So that people in small groups of 2 or 3 have something they can do?

Why do you have to copy WoW and make the game easy?

MMOs used to be hard. EQ1 and UO used to be hard, I was so excited when I read that content got harder, but, alas, this morning we go back to pandering to the World of Warcraft generation, free kills for everyone.

Sigh. See ya out there y'all.

Simple answer - money. ZOS is here to make money, not to make a great MMO. MOST people want to have everything given to them instantly. So, MMOs make it easy - compass, quest markers on maps, simple quests, and buy your way to end game with top of the line equipment from a powerleveler, buy any exploits you need and - proudly strut around like you did something to earn what you have. Not everyone - no - but most, that is what makes money.

You are so wrong I lack words. Sure, they want to make money. Thats true. The rest is utter bollox.

The thing is, any sane company knows they can't survive on crap products, unless consumers are that stupid to keep buying said crap products (or said products are forced on consumers as the only choice. It's sad that I don't see too much difference in stuff I can get at Canadian Tire as opposed to Wal-Mart. Even the Honeywell air purifier I bought last month at CT was made in gorram China, and not the States, as I would have expected from an American company. Well, if it lasts a year, I guess I got my money's worth according to modern expectations. I'd rather buy Made in North America stuff, though.) Or if you're Amway. Never use Amway polish on leather boots, it will eat the leather. That company only survives with its garbage products because they are crooked as a crippled dog's leg.

zaria

HandofBane wrote: »

Prettiboi wrote: »

SeinSchatten wrote: »

Prettiboi wrote: »

Leveling should be fairly hard, only about 50% of population should be able to complete to max 50

VR content should be extremely hard, where only about 10% of the population should be able to complete it. Rewards for VR content should be the best gear possible to gear up all the elites who can complete it.

This should be the way. Making it this hard with great rewards will really make the Elitists and Pros in the game stand out. After all, they are the ones carrying the game and moving it forward.

Cater to the elitists, not to the casuals. There are tons of causal MMOs out there, GW2 being a great example. Paid subscription-based MMOs should cater to the elitsts.

Why don't YOU leave to your elite game? Afterall, people like you pay only a tiny part of the bill.

Elitists are the ones holding the torch, leading the way. First ones in, leading the charge to down the bosses, figure out the mechanics, and post them online so everybody else will be able to do it too. They are the ones who write the guides, give the tips that YOU ALL USE to your benefit. Without these elitists, you wouldn't be where you are today in-game. It is the elitists who SHAPE the game, give feedback to the devs, etc. Not the casuals. Remember this next time you think elitists are "but a tiny part".

Elitists are the ones rolling with multiple players on PTS looking for ways to abuse broken mechanics and failing to report bugs and exploits to the devs so they can get through content all the faster once it goes live. They are the ones responsible for things like the guild bank dupe making it live and failing to be stopped for several weeks. They are the ones responsible for Dark Talons/Bat Swarm abuse becoming so rampant some campaigns never saw a change of Emperor for a week or more at a time.

So yeah, get back to us when the elitists stop looking out for themselves first and actually give a *** about the game, balance, and what the devs actually do the improve the game for all players.

Pretty much this.

And the game was never designed to be hard. Not saying it should not have hard content and eso have some, however making a game most could not complete would be absurd.
And yes solution to hard content is to group up and suddenly the 3 dot boss is easy to kill.

Suel

Millitum wrote: »

@prettiboi Here's where you're wrong dear sir, when you state in real life only 5-10% carry the rest of us.

I'm a middle class, blue collar, career firefighter and part time RN who fills in for vacant spots due to vacation, sick leave, mat leave and whatnot.

So let's break this down, you're telling me only 5-10% of the population carries my ass around, and I should pander to them? That they support me? This elite 5-10%? Bullcrap sir, bullcrap.

Middle class individuals (i.e. Blue collar, or casuals) support both the lower bracket and the higher bracket, through taxes.

It's the same for this MMO. Casual players, such as myself, carry the elitists by providing a steady stream of income for ZOS to make content for the Elitists to helicopter their ePeen around.

HEAR HEAR.... DITO... RIGHT ON RIGHT ON!!!!!

Xuxilbara

Prettiboi wrote: »

After all, they are the ones carrying the game and moving it forward.

Please explain to me how 10% of the population carry the game and move it forward.

drkeys143

Prettiboi wrote: »

Leveling should be fairly hard, only about 50% of population should be able to complete to max 50

VR content should be extremely hard, where only about 10% of the population should be able to complete it. Rewards for VR content should be the best gear possible to gear up all the elites who can complete it.

This should be the way. Making it this hard with great rewards will really make the Elitists and Pros in the game stand out. After all, they are the ones carrying the game and moving it forward.

Cater to the elitists, not to the casuals. There are tons of causal MMOs out there, GW2 being a great example. Paid subscription-based MMOs should cater to the elitsts.

Yes I see, you don't want YOUR game "spoilt" by the plebs eventually reaching end game, what rubbish.

You are correct in saying that it is the hardcore guys who lead the game, make player guides etc. But there is a difference between being a fast-levelling hardcore vet, and an elitist prat. I have been very grateful both on the forums and in game for help from those in vet ranks, I have gleaned much from player guides on the forums, and have spoken to (extremely helpful and positive) vet players in game. This is what originally attracted me to MMOs - the sense of community, of going through something with other people, and helping each other along the way,. This "survival of the fittest" cr*p has no place here, and will win you no friends, though I don't suppose you are particularly concerned about that.

I am a Musician, and play quite a bit with other people too, and have always believed that a good musician, far from trying to outshine those he is in ensemble with, should rather play in such a way to bring out the best in everyone, and I try to carry that into my gaming experience as well. This game will always be lead and driven by those who create a shared experience, and never by those who just believe that the whole world revolves around them, and screw everyone else.

Prettiboi wrote: »

Isn't this how it works in real life? You got your 10% elitists carrying the world, the rest 90% should just be glad to live on the same planet as them.

And now we have left Planet Earth and well on the way to Planet Looneyville. I want to believe that this is just an attempt at inflammatory trolling, because if you actually believe this, you have some serious issues

www.spideypeb18_ESO

I play the game when I have time, I play it the way I want and people who call themselves "elitists" are incredibly arrogant in my opinion.

I read the article about the first emperor being crowned in pvp, he didn't sound at all like an "elitist" he sounded like someone who had fun getting there, who encouraged other players to pursue their goals in the game.

Some people are more skilled than others or have more time on their hands (I could have been a veteran, but I work an eight to five job.)

I think this game is refreshing, even people who beat this game down in their reviews say it has something that makes you want to go back.

There is potential here and sure there are a lot of bugs, but for the first time in an mmo, I feel like I am adventuring, exploring and writing my own path in an mmo.

mutharex

I am more concerned with people that, due to their limited knowledge, assume that if it's a MMO it needs to have dungeon finder, name tags, AH, arenas, gear grind. In short, wowkiddies

They are the most dangerous, let's hope ZOS sticks to what they said

Rastafariel

Prettiboi wrote: »

SeinSchatten wrote: »

Prettiboi wrote: »

Leveling should be fairly hard, only about 50% of population should be able to complete to max 50

VR content should be extremely hard, where only about 10% of the population should be able to complete it. Rewards for VR content should be the best gear possible to gear up all the elites who can complete it.

This should be the way. Making it this hard with great rewards will really make the Elitists and Pros in the game stand out. After all, they are the ones carrying the game and moving it forward.

Cater to the elitists, not to the casuals. There are tons of causal MMOs out there, GW2 being a great example. Paid subscription-based MMOs should cater to the elitsts.

Why don't YOU leave to your elite game? Afterall, people like you pay only a tiny part of the bill.

Elitists are the ones holding the torch, leading the way. First ones in, leading the charge to down the bosses, figure out the mechanics, and post them online so everybody else will be able to do it too. They are the ones who write the guides, give the tips that YOU ALL USE to your benefit. Without these elitists, you wouldn't be where you are today in-game. It is the elitists who SHAPE the game, give feedback to the devs, etc. Not the casuals. Remember this next time you think elitists are "but a tiny part".

Hrm, I have never used any hints posted in this game Yet and I seem to be doing fine. I guess maybe you think that everyone is stupid and can't figure it out for themselves without your assistance? What hubris.

zeuseason

mutharex wrote: »

I am more concerned with people that, due to their limited knowledge, assume that if it's a MMO it needs to have dungeon finder, name tags, AH, arenas, gear grind. In short, wowkiddies

They are the most dangerous, let's hope ZOS sticks to what they said

You speak (type) from experience?

mutharex

zeuseason wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

I am more concerned with people that, due to their limited knowledge, assume that if it's a MMO it needs to have dungeon finder, name tags, AH, arenas, gear grind. In short, wowkiddies

They are the most dangerous, let's hope ZOS sticks to what they said

You speak (type) from experience?

Yeah, a lot of it
And recent, very recent!

seaef

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

wildstar

I stopped watching cartoons when I turned 12.

hk11

WoW sets the baseline for MMOs in my opinion. If a game doesn't offer the same features then it's not quite as good. I enjoy ESO a great deal, but I feel like it's missing a lot of stuff.

Barbers, transformation of item appearance, character services for rename/race/faction, etc.

WoW has a lot of things to do outside of leveling and dungeons. In that respect, I think wowifying the game would be a good thing.

As far as difficulty, I have yet to see anything in ESO as hard as organizing 25 people and then completing a raid with a large number of mechanics to overcome.

isengrimb16_ESO

There's no sense in creating content just for a small percentage of the population. Hell, even Blizzard got sick of seeing only 1% of the population seeing their awesome raids (and I've never even been in Ulduar myself. I don't think I can solo it, and I'm too shy to ask others to help me through it. Not in the WoW community, no way.)

So they introduced LFR. And jerks like mr "only 10% should ever see end-game content" whined and whined and whined about letting any slob see their precious raids. They were mad because they couldn't screen people as they saw fit. I freaking hate that playground attitude, I thought I left that behind when I left school 30-odd years ago.

Unfortunately, Blizz listened, and is gutting LFR in the next expansion. Between that, and Blizz listening to gankers whining about people flying on PvE servers, is the reason I'm playing ESO now and not spending any more money on WoW. I'm happy to leave WoW to kids and "adults" with kid minds.

hk11

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately, Blizz listened, and is gutting LFR in the next expansion. Between that, and Blizz listening to gankers whining about people flying on PvE servers, is the reason I'm playing ESO now and not spending any more money on WoW.

I doubt I'll be going back just because I'm totally burnt on it. But you know they will bring back LFR and stuff a little while after the expansion

alphawolph

Prettiboi wrote: »

Leveling should be fairly hard, only about 50% of population should be able to complete to max 50

VR content should be extremely hard, where only about 10% of the population should be able to complete it. Rewards for VR content should be the best gear possible to gear up all the elites who can complete it.

This should be the way. Making it this hard with great rewards will really make the Elitists and Pros in the game stand out. After all, they are the ones carrying the game and moving it forward.

Cater to the elitists, not to the casuals. There are tons of causal MMOs out there, GW2 being a great example. Paid subscription-based MMOs should cater to the elitsts.

Lol, this would be one dead game.

isengrimb16_ESO

hk11 wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately, Blizz listened, and is gutting LFR in the next expansion. Between that, and Blizz listening to gankers whining about people flying on PvE servers, is the reason I'm playing ESO now and not spending any more money on WoW.

I doubt I'll be going back just because I'm totally burnt on it. But you know they will bring back LFR and stuff a little while after the expansion

Yes, I do know that; it's just a matter of time before Blizz wakes up and realizes they were listening to an overloud minority.

They're not getting RID of LFR, they're just taking away any reason to run it; I ran my hunter's butt through it to get his tier set (no tier sets in LFR in WoD) - but the hunter set is so gorram ugly, I'd need to do research and grind my arse off to make him look half-decent. If I can't earn some kind of set-gear via LFR, forget it. I'm not going to suck elitist *** to get into a higher-level raid, sorry. And the ugliness of the SoO hunter set totally put me off of grinding LFR for sets for my other classes.

I'd rather spend my surviving research brain-cells on finding me a couple of good crafting sets in ESO.

*come to think of it, the WoD sets look ridiculous, too. Spikes everywhere !=savage.

Zerl

Can't take this thread seriously, so here's a quiche...

Khandi

cfurlin wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

wildstar

I stopped watching cartoons when I turned 12.

Yeah, you just sit around and play video games...

ESO is sooooooo lifelike! When I log on it looks like I'm looking into my backyard it's so real! >.>

Zerl

Khandi wrote: »

cfurlin wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

wildstar

I stopped watching cartoons when I turned 12.

Yeah, you just sit around and play video games...

ESO is sooooooo lifelike! When I log on it looks like I'm looking into my backyard it's so real! >.>

I'm glad I'm not the only 1 who thinks this.

On a side note, Zeni... PLEASE FIX LAWN MOWING XP!

isengrimb16_ESO

Khandi wrote: »

cfurlin wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

wildstar

I stopped watching cartoons when I turned 12.

Yeah, you just sit around and play video games...

ESO is sooooooo lifelike! When I log on it looks like I'm looking into my backyard it's so real! >.>

What's so awesome about not watching cartoons? I'm 45, and just caught up on the Dragonball series (original and Z); I enjoyed it quite well. Not so impressed by GT so far, but I did really like Battle of Gods - and I normally hate stuff with subtitles. I'm very much looking forward to the next movie, which is supposed to showcase Vegeta as a main character.

I showed my 55-year old husband the old Gargoyles series; he liked it as much as I do. My favourite name for my Khajit all across the ES series is "Severus Xanatos". I know it's not a proper Khajit name, I just dig it hard.

Animaniacs? I sort of MADE my kids watch that, so I could too, back in my 20s. I would also turn the channel to PBS for "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego" specifically to avoid the Mighty Morphine Power Rangers. That silly kiddie game show taught me lots about geography!

Looking for other stuff to catch up on.