You nerf weakest class?

Reco

I chose Templar because I want to play both as tank and healer. Before the Craglorn patch, I noticed how other classes were dealing so much more damage. I thought ok, but I want to also heal so I will live with it and I won't discard Templar.

Now I come to read the Craglorn patch notes only to find out that the only really useful skills of Templar have been nerfed even more?! Are you insane?

BTW, you say Binding Jabs were nerfed because of too high single-target damage potential. Then why did you nerf the alternative morf Puncturing Sweep too?

Gilvoth

you templars are Not the weakest class. us nightblade duel wield are the weakest class by far miles behind you and all other classes.
nightblade is the bottom of the barrel for both damage output and easilly killed.

Reco

IMO, Nightblade is not meant to play as tank or DPS. It's a sneaky stealthy rogue, solo assassin, distant sniper and a scout.

PBpsy

Reco wrote: »

IMO, Nightblade is not meant to play as tank or DPS. It's a sneaky stealthy rogue, solo assassin, distant sniper and a scout.

NO. Every class should in theory do whatever they want.
Nightblades are probably better tanks now than DKs. NO class is not intended for anything. But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

Gilvoth

i can agree with you that nightblades should not be a tank. yes,
but we should be the highest damage dealers in the game and we are not.

your a templar, if some one needs healing then your in automaticly as healers are hard to come by, youll allways be wanted in both pve and pvp and probably recieve rewards of gold and many other treats from time to time simply because healers are just imposible to find for many people.

but us duel wield nightblades simply are not welcome in pvp nor in pve in eso. in pvp i do get into groups simply because im extra damage, but once they realize they are now resurecting me for the 4th or 6th time they begin to remember my nam,e and take a look at the group sheet and see im a NB and boom i am not going to be kept around for too long. and even if i am then i start getting told off because i die to much and i should rez to the nearest keep.

in pve as immediate as it is discovered that im a knightblade duel wield i will be booted and many times not even invited.

AngryNord

PBpsy wrote: »

But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

Nightblades tend to wear medium/light armour, I don't find that particularly logical for a tank (who would rather wear full heavy)?

PBpsy

AngryNord wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

Nightblades tend to wear medium/light armour, I don't find that particularly logical for a tank (who would rather wear full heavy)?

If you tank you go heavy yes .There is no rule that makes you go medium /light.
They go Medium /.Light because they do not tank. But if you want we sure have the tools. Siphoning ,self heals,aoes,dots.bonuses to healing received,ultimates that heal, ultimates that snare...

Winterstrife

Someone here did not play a Nightblade. No Templars are definately NOT the weakest class, I've watched Templars take on larger packs of enemies (4 or more) & come out of it at least 75% health or higher, as a Nightblade doing so would have the death recap slapped in my face as an insult.

This is of course after the patch, pre-patch they were definitely killing mobs faster than I was.

Arsenic_Touch

Templar's.... the weakest? .... is this bizarro world?

Reco

Nightblade is out of question. It is an outcast archetype -- not meant to play in groups. Templars are meant to play in groups. Or were. Until this patch.

Anzer

Reco wrote: »

Nightblade is out of question. It is not meant to play in groups. Templars are. Or were. Until this patch.

...What?
Do you understand the words that are coming out of your mouth? 'Cause I sure don't.

Loco_Mofo

PBpsy wrote: »

Reco wrote: »

IMO, Nightblade is not meant to play as tank or DPS. It's a sneaky stealthy rogue, solo assassin, distant sniper and a scout.

NO. Every class should in theory do whatever they want.
Nightblades are probably better tanks now than DKs. NO class is not intended for anything. But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

What? Why do you say that?

elorei

"nightblades suck when I try to play them exactly as my preconceived notions demand they be played"

Nightblades are amazing at a few roles, it might not be the role you thought they should be, but that does not really matter.

II really enjoy the part about how nightblades "should be the highest damage dealers in the game". Why exactly? Because you said so?

You can play them however you want, of course, but don't be surprised if it less than optimal. Same goes for any class.

Reco

elorei wrote: »

II really enjoy the part about how nightblades "should be the highest damage dealers in the game". Why exactly? Because you said so?

Exactly

PBpsy

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Reco wrote: »

IMO, Nightblade is not meant to play as tank or DPS. It's a sneaky stealthy rogue, solo assassin, distant sniper and a scout.

NO. Every class should in theory do whatever they want.
Nightblades are probably better tanks now than DKs. NO class is not intended for anything. But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

What? Why do you say that?

Almost being able to clean some Craglorn delves solo with a siphoning tank. I said 'probably' since I do not know exactly how hard the DKs were hit in the last patch. Then again probably not.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i can agree with you that nightblades should not be a tank. yes,
but we should be the highest damage dealers in the game and we are not.

Excuse me mate, but why NB should be the highest damage dealers in game?
Is there any statement or a promise that this should be the case?

Or because you play one, you want it to be so?


NB makes by far the best tanks in game. While DK they cannot go wrong on any choice, while their damage is totally insane and an army of their own.

An NB (my mate) and a DK, cleared out the group-public dungeon at Shadowfen last night. (VR3).
He told me about there is an SP that was given by a boss there, and that was easy 2 man job.

So I went, with the same guy there. And was amazed that now needed a group with many people more, to go through those Dremora, because my Templar is not Dragonknight to clear out the floor.

Since 1.1.2 patch, I use a 2H. Stopped using 1H on my Templar. The damage mitigation is EXACTLY THE SAME, while damage is much higher. Stamina use to break is less with 2H than is with Shield. Add the issue that bitting jabs is pathetic right now, I keep spamming Uppercut.

The only way to fix now the Templar tanks, is to half the magicka needed for the javelin.

As is right now, Templars have only 1 viable setup. Full stop. Light armour and Destruction staff.

And is the combination of things that make some classes good (Heavy Armour NB with 2h or shield), very good (Heavy Armour DK with 2H or Shield), God mode (Vampire NB or DK), or pathetic (Heavy Armour Templar with 2H or Shield).


And if you do not believe us. Please go roll a Templar and head for VR2+ content in Heavy armour and shield or 2H.

Slash8915

Reco wrote: »

BTW, you say Binding Jabs were nerfed because of too high single-target damage potential. Then why did you nerf the alternative morf Puncturing Sweep too?

They did. I use Puncturing Sweep, and it has the same issues.

Phantax

Reco wrote: »

elorei wrote: »

II really enjoy the part about how nightblades "should be the highest damage dealers in the game". Why exactly? Because you said so?

Exactly

Sorcerers should be the highest damage dealers (in pretty much all MMOs Mage/Sorc class has been). I say that due to the fact that normally the Sorc class is a 'glass cannon' class. Yes ESO tried to do it different by letting us wear heavy gear, but that sucks because you 'have' to wear light gear to get any decent magicka recovery.
NBs are a good 'all round' class, not out-and-out damage dealers !

Dagus

i like how no one mentioned sorcs at all.
templar, nightblades, dragonknights but not sorcs.

I think that just proves that sorcs aren't having problems. so good job zenimax on that one class you made.

Akhratos

Right now all weapon skill based builds are crap, so I wouldnt say all NBs are crap just because they suck using dual wield weapon tree.

I simply think weapon trees based sta builds are not viable in VR/PVP as of now. They are so crap that the only one that worked was a flawed 1h/s mechanic. 2handed is also utter crap.

Then you simply take a staff (only weapon trees using magicka, surprise!) and everything becomes rainbows and cookies falling off the sky for you while you instacast the hell out of vr packs with the survability of a tank and the highest dps/resourcemanagement.

F7sus4

@Dagus: That's utterly true. One must be imbecile to be uncompetitive with Sorcerer.

fiachsidhe

Reco wrote: »

Nightblade is out of question. It is an outcast archetype -- not meant to play in groups. Templars are meant to play in groups. Or were. Until this patch.

You really have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
1. Templars have some of the highest AoE damage I've seen. Why do you think you see botters using trains of multi-boxing templars? All run up and mass Aedric Spear everything into dust.

2. Sorry "sneaky stealthy rogue, solo assassin, distant sniper and a scout." are not ROLES. Its Damage/Tank/Healing(Support). You're a fool if you think "solo assassin" isn't a DPS role. and an even bigger one if you think they aren't designed for group play. There is no "solo class". Is Sorcerer a solo class because they can have two pets out at once?

3. You think temps got screwed? Many of Nightblade's passive skills DON'T WORK. AT ALL. and haven't worked since BETA!
This patch nerfed us, rather than fix the abilities that don't work at all. So not only do we have a large chunk of skills that do nothing and waste skill points, but the stuff that DID work, is weaker now.

So cry me a river about how one or two of your abilities aren't steamrolling mobs as much. Nightblades need to be buffed, just so our passives will actually turn on.

Ruddertail

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i can agree with you that nightblades should not be a tank. yes,
but we should be the highest damage dealers in the game and we are not.

Why? You have far more group utility than sorcerers, whose class skills are almost entirely selfish and damage-oriented.

eduardo_goncalveseb17_ESO

the explanation is simple:

They want ppl to play thier pvp crap.. so they are trying to make ppl hate pve .

Nerfing tanks is just part of the plan.

Making fights much harder so people feel insecure to play solo is another part.

What will happen is: people still wont give a crap about their poor pvp system and instead, will just be sad and leave a game that is not fun anymore.

Bromburak

AngryNord wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

Nightblades tend to wear medium/light armour, I don't find that particularly logical for a tank (who would rather wear full heavy)?

It depends what are you tanking and what kind of skills you use ...

Certain situations require a set change, this includes armor type, resi enchants etc.. If players are not flexible or lazy its fine, but then deal with it!

tobi01xhorpreeb18_ESO

You guys are so freaking Sick....

Zenimax Online said, that any Archetyp/Class can fill any role. They also said that: You can play how you want: A Caster in heavy armor or a tank in light armor.

There are only two classes right now who can do what Zenimax promised us:

Dragonknight can use any combination :

1. melee dps, ranged dps or caster in any kind of armor and weapon and be fine
2. tank in any armor and any weapon and be fine (light armor dk tank is insane op right now)
3. heal in any armor with resto and be fine

Mage can use any combination:

1. melee dps, ranged dps or caster in any kind of armor and weapon and be fine
2. tank in any armor and any weapon and be fine
3. heal in any armor with resto and be fine

Templar can use:

1. dps in heavy armor, light armor or medium armor and can use any weapon and be fine ( templar got the best aoe farming abilitys ingame right now after DK Fire Mage; no one tops a DK at this moment, sorry dudes)
2. Tank only in Heavy Armor
3. Heal only in light armor (if full heal!)

Nightblade can:

1. Tank only in heavy armor, nightblades are the BEST Boss-Tanks in this game. (shades 15% flat damage Reduction with 100% uptime, 100% damage Reduction for the time you are in stealth + up to 4 negativ effects removed; stacking self supporting heals, 60% ultimate damage reduction with the possibility to very easy building ultiamte and/or reduce it)
   They Outperforming any Tank right now very easy on a Boss. They lack any AoE to controll the Battle in Massive Pulls or in Situation with Massive Adds it's a Horror!
   I know, Infinity Tank is better atm. But it is op and broken and will be fixed in the future.
2. DPS in Medium Armor only when you want a decent dps. You can dps in light armor and be a kind of Hybrid, heal/dps which is nice and fills the role of a Supporter, which is not needed in this game, but makes alot things easier, when used right! I had several dungeon runs with my NB as Support Heal/DPS and giving also great % Damage Reduction if needed (shades 15%, Ultimate30% for an example)
3. Heal in light armor only with reso staff

F7sus4

tobi01xhorpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

(...) + up to 4 negativ effects removed; stacking self supporting heals, 60% ultimate damage reduction with the possibility to very easy building ultiamte and/or reduce it)

If you'd ever played Nightblade you would know that it's not 4 negative effects, but 1 (still bugged, at that) and that most of what you're writing just "looks good on paper".

AlexDrago

You are wrong.
The weakest class in PvE is Sorc now.

zgrssd

Winterstrife wrote: »

[...]I've watched Templars take on larger packs of enemies (4 or more) & come out of it at least 75% health or higher, as a Nightblade doing so would have the death recap slapped in my face as an insult.

The misunderstanding here is that NB are weak. When in reality Templar were just a bit stronger then they should have been. Taking on 4 equal level mobs should give you a Death Recap with just about any class.
Not every class should be able to survive that - the other way around.

If you wanted the MMO to be nearly fully balanced, you should not have bought it for 5 more months.
You bought it at release. You either knew you were going to be hit by all the balancing shockwaves. Or you lied when claiming you were old enough to buy/play the game.

Reco wrote: »

elorei wrote: »

II really enjoy the part about how nightblades "should be the highest damage dealers in the game". Why exactly? Because you said so?

Exactly

Since the problem is entirely in your concept of the game (and not the game itself), there is nothing in the game that needs to change.
Only your mistaken conceptions have to change and that is something you can only do yourself.

AlexDrago wrote: »

You are wrong.
The weakest class in PvE is Sorc now.

Please note exact lelvels, gear used, skill selection, rotation and similar stuff. Because in every one of those you could have made a mistake. Making broad claims like this without actuall data is not going anywhere.

Gilvoth

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i can agree with you that nightblades should not be a tank. yes,
but we should be the highest damage dealers in the game and we are not.

Excuse me mate, but why NB should be the highest damage dealers in game?

so we can defend ourselves, because we are the weakest class and most easiest KILLED in both pvp and pve!

Orizuru

This thread got derailed quickly. Might as well change the title to indicate it's a NB discussion now.