You nerf weakest class?

Talketzanto

A nightblade (paladin) are probably the best tanks in game...siphoning strikes / leeching strikes make us almost unkillable

couple that with our ultimate that does lots of damage and only cost (50) and we can put out some insane damage

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

AngryNord wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

Nightblades tend to wear medium/light armour, I don't find that particularly logical for a tank (who would rather wear full heavy)?

leeching strikes is the single best boss tanking skill in the game. health, magika and stamina returned on hit.
btw my nb is armor capped and resist capped in 5m 2 light. why bother wearing heavy if you can softcap in light. ( or naked with jewelery enchants)

poochie

Until I can stealth powershot kill a VR10 troll(if there are any Daggerfall side) in one shot to me NB is underpowered. Until Scorched Earth+Acid Spray can take out VR10 mobs in 5 secs like a sorc spamming that fire nova stuff whatever it is then to me NB is underpowered. To me a NB bow user should be similar to a D2 bowazon with a Buriza-Do Kyanon or Windforce spamming multishot-Strafe Freezing Arrow and glitched Guided Arrow with that infinite piercing bug to eat the crap out any mobs HP.

ThyIronFist

PBpsy wrote: »

Reco wrote: »

IMO, Nightblade is not meant to play as tank or DPS. It's a sneaky stealthy rogue, solo assassin, distant sniper and a scout.

NO. Every class should in theory do whatever they want.
Nightblades are probably better tanks now than DKs. NO class is not intended for anything. But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

What is the *** point in classes if every class can be whatever they want?

Bromburak

AlexDrago wrote: »

The weakest class in PvE is Sorc now.

More realistic is that you are the weakest player.

tplink3r1

punturing sweep was nerfed too...

Nooblet

Bromburak wrote: »

AlexDrago wrote: »

The weakest class in PvE is Sorc now.

More realistic is that you are the weakest player.

Sorc has been the lowest sustained DPS since release. They have pretty high spike dps, which is why they seem to do high dps through PvP.

Those saying NB is the worst or templar is the worst... yet they do far higher sustained dps than Sorc. I know it might be hard for you to believe, but that's what all the testing shows.

Dimar

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

you templars are Not the weakest class. us nightblade duel wield are the weakest class by far miles behind you and all other classes.
nightblade is the bottom of the barrel for both damage output and easilly killed.

Dude your missing the point. Templar's are a tank class. The only way to hold agro is to do DPS. The only,ONLY, dps we had was bitting jabs, that could hold agro. Now BJ doesn't accomplish that. That means we aren't a viable tank, as we don't have a dps option in any configuration, we get to be healer's and NOTHING else. No tank, no DPS, nothing but sad heals.

Innocente

Wow. ESO must really be messed up if folks are arguing for their class being the weakest in the game. And everyone is winning the argument!

Bromburak

Nooblet wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

AlexDrago wrote: »

The weakest class in PvE is Sorc now.

More realistic is that you are the weakest player.

Sorc has been the lowest sustained DPS since release. They have pretty high spike dps, which is why they seem to do high dps through PvP.

Those saying NB is the worst or templar is the worst... yet they do far higher sustained dps than Sorc. I know it might be hard for you to believe, but that's what all the testing shows.

The sorc is not a weak class, have fun with testing!

Nooblet

Dimar wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

you templars are Not the weakest class. us nightblade duel wield are the weakest class by far miles behind you and all other classes.
nightblade is the bottom of the barrel for both damage output and easilly killed.

Dude your missing the point. Templar's are a tank class. The only way to hold agro is to do DPS. The only,ONLY, dps we had was bitting jabs, that could hold agro. Now BJ doesn't accomplish that. That means we aren't a viable tank, as we don't have a dps option in any configuration, we get to be healer's and NOTHING else. No tank, no DPS, nothing but sad heals.

You can be a tank, just like every other class. Noone is a "tank" class. Different classes just do it differently. But 1h/shield lets you be a tank regardless of your class. Just like restoration staff lets you be a healer regardless of your class. If you think you need to out DPS the DPS roles while tanking... I'm sorry, but that shouldn't happen and you are trying to tank wrong.

Different classes just have different synergies with the role they choose to play.

AlexDougherty

Nooblet wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

AlexDrago wrote: »

The weakest class in PvE is Sorc now.

More realistic is that you are the weakest player.

Sorc has been the lowest sustained DPS since release. They have pretty high spike dps, which is why they seem to do high dps through PvP.

Those saying NB is the worst or templar is the worst... yet they do far higher sustained dps than Sorc. I know it might be hard for you to believe, but that's what all the testing shows.

Templars are not the weakest class, they aren't the strongest, But they can hold their own.

Sorceror has lower DPS, but if done properly is still quite playable, crystal shard is slow, but packs a real punch.

Nightblade does decent damage, but even with better armour is less survivable than a sorceror. Seriously, my Nightblade in medium armour and a shield dies much quicker than my sorceror did at the same level in light armour and a staff.

Therefore to me Nightblade is far and away the weakest class, can be the most fun in bits, but is definately weaker than the others.

F7sus4

The problem with class balance is as follows:

- Dragonknight, Templar, Sorcerer:
Class-skills provide mostly damage resource that weapon-skills complement.

- Nightblade:
Class-skills provide mostly utility resource that weapon-skills complement.

Therefore, nerfing weapon-skills means weakening Nightblades in the first place.

Dimar

You can be a tank, just like every other class. Noone is a "tank" class. Different classes just do it differently. But 1h/shield lets you be a tank regardless of your class. Just like restoration staff lets you be a healer regardless of your class. If you think you need to out DPS the DPS roles while tanking... I'm sorry, but that shouldn't happen and you are trying to tank wrong.

Different classes just have different synergies with the role they choose to play.[/quote]

What your missing here is Templars are supposed to be tanks, heavy armor, taunts, etc.. Without a way to hold agro that just isn't an option. If you tank, you need stamina, if you spec stamina, then you don't have magicka to heal or dps, just standing there with your shield up isn't good enough to make it as a tank, you have to do something. BJ was what we did, not that doesn't work so we're back to just standing there wit our shield up or running around chasing the mobs because we can't hold agro. And I would love to see a NIghtblade in light armor weilding a sword and board and tanking! I'd post it on You tube as one of ESO's funniest momments!

Nooblet

Dimar wrote: »

What your missing here is Templars are supposed to be tanks, heavy armor, taunts, etc.. Without a way to hold agro that just isn't an option. If you tank, you need stamina, if you spec stamina, then you don't have magicka to heal or dps, just standing there with your shield up isn't good enough to make it as a tank, you have to do something. BJ was what we did, not that doesn't work so we're back to just standing there wit our shield up or running around chasing the mobs because we can't hold agro. And I would love to see a NIghtblade in light armor weilding a sword and board and tanking! I'd post it on You tube as one of ESO's funniest momments!

What you are missing, is that you are wrong. Sorry to be so blunt about it.

disexistencenub19_ESO

ThyIronFist wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Reco wrote: »

IMO, Nightblade is not meant to play as tank or DPS. It's a sneaky stealthy rogue, solo assassin, distant sniper and a scout.

NO. Every class should in theory do whatever they want.
Nightblades are probably better tanks now than DKs. NO class is not intended for anything. But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

What is the *** point in classes if every class can be whatever they want?

He is exactly correct, classes should be able to be crafted and played at any role they desire and that is exactly how they are set up, even though they aren't working perfectly at the moment.

Stop putting labels/limitations on everything. I mean, this is Elder Scrolls right? The whole point of Elder Scrolls games was to design and play to what you want to do. Why do classes have to do one certain thing? Why can it not be based on theme/style of play etc?

Dimar

disexistencenub19_ESO wrote: »

Stop putting labels/limitations on everything. I mean, this is Elder Scrolls right? The whole point of Elder Scrolls games was to design and play to what you want to do. Why do classes have to do one certain thing? Why can it not be based on theme/style of play etc?

That's the advertised role for the Class I chose. It's what I want to play. Now the only thing I can play well is a healer. I have no DPS skills and no tank skills, how am I supposed to be a heavy armor tank without any skills to accomplish that task? Without any DPS how are you supposed to kill mobs before they kill you? I've been playing MMo's for 30 years and never once have a I seen someone heal a mob to death in solo play.

Bromburak

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Nightblade does decent damage, but even with better armour is less survivable than a sorceror.

Define better armor and survival in detail.

Seriously, my Nightblade in medium armour and a shield dies much quicker than my sorceror did at the same level in light armour and a staff.

Therefore to me Nightblade is far and away the weakest class, can be the most fun in bits, but is definately weaker than the others.

This totally makes no sense, why would you compare apples with oranges?

1. Why are you playing medium armor NB and compare it to light armor Sorc?
And why would someone pick a "weak build" on purpose for class 1 and compare it with a strong magicka build on class 2?

2. What are the skills that both classes are using in your weird comparison?
And why your NB is based on stamina/weapon skills vs. magicka/class skills Sorc?

Seriously, what is your logic behind totally different testing parameters?

Nooblet

Dimar wrote: »

disexistencenub19_ESO wrote: »

Stop putting labels/limitations on everything. I mean, this is Elder Scrolls right? The whole point of Elder Scrolls games was to design and play to what you want to do. Why do classes have to do one certain thing? Why can it not be based on theme/style of play etc?

That's the advertised role for the Class I chose. It's what I want to play. Now the only thing I can play well is a healer. I have no DPS skills and no tank skills, how am I supposed to be a heavy armor tank without any skills to accomplish that task? Without any DPS how are you supposed to kill mobs before they kill you? I've been playing MMo's for 30 years and never once have a I seen someone heal a mob to death in solo play.

You can do that in rift, though healing yourself

But anyway.. I'm not sure if you looked at other classes... But I have 2 dps spells from Sorcerer that are worth a damn, one of which is a finisher, the other is a casted ranged nuke. Can Sorc be an effective tank.. yep sure can.

Templar can be an effective tank as well. Sorry if you think you "need" class dps skills to tank, but they are meant to complement your weapon lines, not replace them.

disexistencenub19_ESO

Dimar wrote: »

disexistencenub19_ESO wrote: »

Stop putting labels/limitations on everything. I mean, this is Elder Scrolls right? The whole point of Elder Scrolls games was to design and play to what you want to do. Why do classes have to do one certain thing? Why can it not be based on theme/style of play etc?

That's the advertised role for the Class I chose. It's what I want to play. Now the only thing I can play well is a healer. I have no DPS skills and no tank skills, how am I supposed to be a heavy armor tank without any skills to accomplish that task? Without any DPS how are you supposed to kill mobs before they kill you? I've been playing MMo's for 30 years and never once have a I seen someone heal a mob to death in solo play.

You are taking my statement out of context. I was saying that every class should be able to do any role just as equally. In fact, they are set up this way. The problem is that they aren't working perfectly in those regards.

canghai

every class can do any role but there will always be a class thats BEST and more IDEAL for a certain role

for every class to play every role AND have them all balanced is completely UNREALISTIC in any mmo

PBpsy

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

Nightblades tend to wear medium/light armour, I don't find that particularly logical for a tank (who would rather wear full heavy)?

leeching strikes is the single best boss tanking skill in the game. health, magika and stamina returned on hit.
btw my nb is armor capped and resist capped in 5m 2 light. why bother wearing heavy if you can softcap in light. ( or naked with jewelery enchants)

All of the Heavy armor passives are a the reason anyone wanting to tank with a NB would go with a 5Heavy +2 of either light or medium.
-armor+spell resist
-more health/health regen
-weapon damage
-20% stamina cost reduction for Blocking Great
-increase healing received which applies to all our health siphoning skills self heal.

Bromburak

canghai wrote: »

every class can do any role but there will always be a class thats BEST and more IDEAL for a certain role

for every class to play every role AND have them all balanced is completely UNREALISTIC in any mmo

Well, this confirms that classes have advantages and disadvantags in certain roles.

And thats why you cannot simply compare the disadvantages of class A with advantages of class B while ignoring the advantages of class A.

Exactly that is happening in this thread by certain members and certainly their conclusion will fail with such parameters.

shiva7663

tobi01xhorpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

I know, Infinity Tank is better atm. But it is op and broken and will be fixed in the future.

What is an "Infinity Tank"?

AngryNord

Talketzanto wrote: »

A nightblade (paladin) are probably the best tanks in game...siphoning strikes / leeching strikes make us almost unkillable

uuh, nightblade paladin?? The Templar class would be what most closely represents the traditional paladin... Nightblade is more of an assassin/swashbuckler/thief style the way it is presented in ESO.

Dramonicous

AngryNord wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

But Tank for NB is a very logical route if you look at the skills

Nightblades tend to wear medium/light armour, I don't find that particularly logical for a tank (who would rather wear full heavy)?

Before craglorn patch I was a VR10 Tank/DPS/Healer (between switching abilities) and I can tell you that NB doesnt need heavy armor to outtank a legendary geared DK. Infact NB tank better in light armor cuz we have stronger mana regen then. There are several abilities that give boosts to spell resist and armor, and the multipurpose invisibility NB have adds a ton of it aswell.

I have tanked, healed and dps all VR dungeons, including "Hardmodes" for undaunted achievements.

I havent decided if I will remain a tank now thou, since they nerfed bash dmg in the ground.

F7sus4

disexistencenub19_ESO wrote: »

He is exactly correct, classes should be able to be crafted and played at any role they desire

You're right. They should be. And if they would, there won't be any need to look for a reliable build. Which is, apparently, more than a half-NB-related topics around the internet. Reach NB VR10, take the hint.

sylviermoone

I can't, in any way, agree with Templar's being the weakest class. My hubby plays a 2H Med Arm Templar, and he just absolutely DESTROYS everything. Most of the time, I can barely get a hit on whatever we happen to be fighting, unless it's a super elite or something. And yeah, I play a NB.

He's not tanking, though, obviously. But it seems to me, from watching my hubby play his Templar, that there are plenty of other class skills that can take aggro. Biting Jabs is not the ONLY ability Templars have. Nor is it really even the best, imo.

Sayaddina

To the NB argument, I slightly agree that nerfing the weapon skills is a direct nerf to the class because of it's overuse of utility abilities. That being said, there is more than one way to play DW assassin. My NB is vr6 currently, and while slow, it isn't unplayable.

To the more over-arching issue of this entire thread: I really don't think any of you understand the 'principles' behind tanking in this game, or in any endgame scenario. You are all approaching this like you are tanking WoW trash dungeons.

To start, it isn't your job to hold everything, period. Your job as the 'tank' is to hold the aggro of the boss and to survive the fight, that's really it. You don't get to control all aspects of the instance the way we used to. If you can understand that, and move on to the next point then there may be hope.

Mitigation. Mitigation. Mitigation.

I'm really sick of hearing 'SnB makes anyone a tank', because it doesn't. Block can happen with any weapon, all you gain from using SnB is the utility of bash stuns and reflects, along with some fairly weak passives that don't stack up to the pure mitigation abilities of other weapons.

To be clear, currently the 'best' tank is a DK in a mix of medium and light armor, using dual wield weapons, stacking cinder storm, elude, ember storm, and razor armor, with inner beast for taunt. This is true for 2 reasons. Firstly, no matter what the tooltip says, the only real mitigation is dodge, and all abilities which produce a chance to miss are actually only adding dodge rating, thus any class which can stack dodge past a point of being consecutively hit is the winner. Using only skills, a DK can achieve 90% to 93% dodge rating. My DK sits at 90% because I prefer to use a few peices of light armor. While at the same time, being capped for armor and spell resist because of passives, and in a pinch, overcap via Razor armor.

Whenever you see a DK soloing anything, this is most likely the spec he is running. Forgive my prejudice, but to me, anyone currently using SnB and calling themselves a VR dungeon tank is really only handicapping the group.

For these reasons, and the general lack of knowledge about why a 'class' should wear/use any item or ability is really the issue here. Any class can be a good tank, the way to go about them is different. If your idea of 'tanking' is spamming power bash until the boss is dead, then I'm afraid, you sir, are not a tank.

Currently, there is little to no reason why anyone, especially a tank, needs to use Heavy Armor. While that is rather strange from a logical point, if you do the napkin math, you can see that hitting all the caps is possible without using any HA pieces.

Now that we are past facts, I'll add a little opinion. I feel that NBs and Templars are slightly broken, mostly because of resource issues more than damage output. It's true, they are currently pigeon holed into certain roles in the eyes of the general populace, but that doesn't mean that they are outright unplayable. I began ESO playing my NB using a 2hnder as a sort of lifestealing med armor deathknight playstyle, but alas, that was simply not strong enough at VR levels. But instead of logging him off, I respecced him to something that was more FOTM and continued on. That's really where we all have to get to mentally for a while. This is a new MMO, there are clearly not many people working on the balance of classes right now, so for the mean-time, it would behoove us as players to spend less time gripeing about what's broken endlessly, and instead try to spread the ideas of what is working. There are plenty of 'my class is broke for this reason' threads out there.

Decimus_Rex

Archaon wrote: »

Right now all weapon skill based builds are crap, so I wouldnt say all NBs are crap just because they suck using dual wield weapon tree.

I simply think weapon trees based sta builds are not viable in VR/PVP as of now. They are so crap that the only one that worked was a flawed 1h/s mechanic. 2handed is also utter crap.

Then you simply take a staff (only weapon trees using magicka, surprise!) and everything becomes rainbows and cookies falling off the sky for you while you instacast the hell out of vr packs with the survability of a tank and the highest dps/resourcemanagement.

This right now is the single biggest problem with the game as of now.

The dest/rest staff line seems to be the only real choice at some point for every class to overcome harder content.

I refused to play the staff weilding dress wearing Nb build and I am paying the price but I know my enjoyment of the game would be diminshed if I caved into the generic sorc build that seems to cruise through the game with ease

To address the op biting jabs is to be reverted and it was never really intended