Since Elusive Mist was Nerfed Bolt Escape NEEDS to be Nerfed too

Opux

NordJitsu wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Orizuru wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Every game seems to have that 1 class that can escape all fights, and the noobs that think its fine

Warhammer Had Shamans
in Rift it was Nightblade/Bards Combo
in GW2 it was Thieves
and in this game its Sorcs

So running away from a fight that you are losing to reset and try again is not allowed?

In my opinion the guy who stands his ground and dies when he should have run away is the noob. History doesn't reveal General Custer to be some great military genius for standing his ground, it just shows that he was a fool.

The problem is only having 1 class able to do this... give it to all or none at all.

Fine.

Then can I please have a chain pull, an instant self heal, in combat invisibility, and group heals without a Resto-staff?

Sure!

Silver Leash, potion, potion/Clouding Swarm, Cleanse/Reviving Barrier/Blood Altar.

NordJitsu

@Opux‌

That's hilarious for a few reasons. First, none of those things you mentioned come even close to the class skills I was referring to in terms of effectiveness. Second, I could say literally the same thing for Bolt Escape.

Potions, Retreating Maneuvers, Hasty Retreat, Well Fitted, Steed Stone, ect. ect.

Opux

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Opux‌

That's hilarious for a few reasons. First, none of those things you mentioned come even close to the class skills I was referring to in terms of effectiveness.

So you would be OK with giving all classes access to a teleport that moved them 80% the distance of Bolt Escape?

NordJitsu wrote: »

Second, I could say literally the same thing for Bolt Escape.

Potions, Retreating Maneuvers, Hasty Retreat, Well Fitted, Steed Stone, ect. ect.

Doesn't provide instant displacement, doesn't provide instant displacement, doesn't provide instant displacement, doesn't provide instant displacement...

... doesn't provide instant displacement.

NordJitsu

@Opux‌

But its effect is the same, so what difference does it make how you get there?

And just like the options you mentioned, its not a 1 to 1 equivalent.

Classes SHOULD be special and different. Diversity is good for the game.

Opux

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Opux‌
But its effect is the same, so what difference does it make how you get there?

The effect is _not_ the same, and to claim it is shows a fundamental misunderstanding of game design. Hell, it shows a complete misunderstanding of mathematics.

Bolt Escape immediately puts you out of range of abilities with ranges of about <12m. A second cast is about <24m, etc. Running, no matter how fast, does not do this (and is affected by extremely common snares!).

Halrloprillalar

Opux wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Opux‌

That's hilarious for a few reasons. First, none of those things you mentioned come even close to the class skills I was referring to in terms of effectiveness.

So you would be OK with giving all classes access to a teleport that moved them 80% the distance of Bolt Escape?

NordJitsu wrote: »

Second, I could say literally the same thing for Bolt Escape.

Potions, Retreating Maneuvers, Hasty Retreat, Well Fitted, Steed Stone, ect. ect.

Doesn't provide instant displacement, doesn't provide instant displacement, doesn't provide instant displacement, doesn't provide instant displacement...

... doesn't provide instant displacement.

We DO want separate classes for this game... right?

Xsorus

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

two can play this game:

If you are chain pulling someone as they use breakout, guess what, you're an idiot.

The rest of the herp a derp responses I'm seeing are easily as stupid as "well I don't have a skill like that but I should because no one should ever be able to escape anyone ever". It doesn't matter that there are 4 classes in game and they all have their pros and cons.

I mean bloody christ, I feel like I'm having the same damn argument I had in Rift with those morons and Rift Storm+teleport warriors... They used equally stupid "suggestions" like "walk out of the rift storm" and "run away from a warrior" which mostly involved avoiding combat with one in the first place, completely ignoring the fact that the team that had more warriors with riftstorm, won every time. So I know how bloody stupid that suggestion was.

This game has the same thing. Only it's moronic DKs telling you stupid suggestions like "just dodge the talons" and "don't be in melee range" which only works if you are not already in their bat swarm+banner+aoe of death and they are taking their time to kill you. Against anyone who's not dumber than a box of rocks you will not survive a DK with invasion and talons+banner+whip.

Not that I fully condone anything of what you've said or really believe 100% of the above. But I think I've made my point.

RM is similar to BE only in the aspect of being an escape/travel ability (especially with the morph). I did not say they were equivalent, but I suggested it to someone who claimed they couldn't 'get away from combat easily'.

A. You're not chain pulling anyone in this game, because it has an immunity timer.

B. Warriors in Rift were stupid, I'm in full agreement with everything you changed in the next paragraph. Let me guess, you assumed because i'm a DK in this game, that was my preferred class in Rift?

C. Root needs an immunity timer, Believe I said that before. Don't be in melee Range is more of a suggestion for the idiots spamming Batswarm with the Ultimate Cost Reduction Gear. Which is a valid suggestion...of telling people not to stack on the bloody PBAE lifetap user. (It was still overpowered)

D. The bloody suggestion that most of the herp a derps are offering is "Just use invasion" and your suggestion was, use RM...Which if you were having trouble with Invasion with BE, you stand zero chance of escaping a fight with RM. It makes you immune to Roots and Snares, It doesn't make you immune to Knockdowns/Stuns....Meaning you're not getting away from the fight with that. Plus if there is any Sorc there, he will catch you.

ishilb14_ESO

Hey guys here's an idea, if you want to use Bolt Escape so badly then REROLL SORC lol. All sorcs have is Bolt Escape that's consistently effective. If you're going to disagree with me, then present some logic that shows it's not the only effective skill that sorcs have.

Wolfahm

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

Hey guys here's an idea, if you want to use Bolt Escape so badly then REROLL SORC lol. All sorcs have is Bolt Escape that's consistently effective. If you're going to disagree with me, then present some logic that shows it's not the only effective skill that sorcs have.

Don't tell people to roll a Sorc its already 90% of the player base....

PS. Ambush/Crit Charge/Shield Charge = Friend Everyone! <<<

Kiljaz

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

As the title says.

Since ZoS nerfed Elusive Mist then Bolt Escape needs to be nerfed to.

It unbalanced that one class can escape ANY combat they are losing.

Either put Elusive MIst back at 45% so ALL classes are equal or NERF Bolt Escape so Sorcs can't escape every single combat they are losing.

Nerf vanish then. Nerf block it stops spells. Nerf fire scale, op reflect. Nerf dragon blood. Just list your class so everything else can be nerfed.

Makkir

I think the bigger issue here is the fact Game of Thrones was not on last Sunday...

FireCowCommando

If you havnt seen a sorc spam the blink that disables you over your party 15x then you are not seeing what the current sorc blink is able to do. Without stam breaking it your group is done for.

The disorient is better than the stun, why? disorients doesn't trigger the CC cooldown, you can disorient an entire group of players until your mana pool runs out. In small organized group pvp, 2 mages blinking over one group that isnt able to properly move against the other is GG. Combo that with a DK or two rushing in and banner talons after means your group just wiped, or at the very least burnt all their resources on CC break/roll and then spamed heals to survive the incoming DMG from the other players.

Which group wins with one out of resources? Even if the group that is using a mage disorient doesnt get the drop on the other, you can blink so many times before you run out of mana you will eventually win. If the mage runs out of mana just spend a few seconds to regen, rinse repeat until they eventually get a chance to DK banner. (when you start to see 3 or 4 people not CC breaking the mage disorient you charge in and finish them)

Teargrants

FireCowCommando wrote: »

If you havnt seen a sorc spam the blink that disables you over your party 15x then you are not seeing what the current sorc blink is able to do. Without stam breaking it your group is done for.

Wait, so out of your whole group, not one person thought to press block while a sorc spammed Streak through their entire magica bar + the bonus magica from the Warlock set + popped a magica pot, in order to be able to Streak 15x - over what must have taken about 20 sec at least?

And in 15 Streaks, not one person did CC break? No stamina, then what about stamina pots? Not one person used CC on the sorc?

ForTheRealm

So, anyone has news when and how the BE will be nerfed?

AzureButterfly

I honestly think BE is slightly too powerful. It's not the godlike ability people make it out to be, but I can easily clear public dungeons just by using my summons and repeatedly using Streak on groups of enemies. I definitely agree on the Ultimate building point - I can cast my Storm Atronach at least once every fight when doing the public dungeons.

I run a build with almost no health investment, and when I'm PvPing, I don't want to fight other players head to head. I'd much rather find some friends and heal them. I prefer playing a support role and I using Bolt Escape mostly as a way to quickly get to people in need of healing. If I were forced to play a character who was built for 1v1, I wouldn't have as much fun.

I can tell you from experience, Bolt Escape is not a failure proof "get out of jail" card. Nightblades absolutely destroy me because they can sneak up on me and stunlock me to submission. I don't have the stamina reserves to constantly break out of CC - that's why I Bolt Escape out of Talons. I use my Magicka pool rather than my Stamina pool to avoid attacks, and if you keep stunning me I'm done for. About half the Dragonknights and Templars I fight are also impossible for me to beat, because their self-healing vastly outweighs my damage output. Once I realize I can't do enough damage, I'll try to Bolt Escape out of the way because I'm not staying in a fight I can't win.

Part of the problem is that people seem to think of PvP in terms of smaller scale battlegrounds rather than realizing how enormous Cyrodiil is. If I can escape from you, I'm going to do it. If I see an enemy player, I'll run and hide because any AP I could have gotten out of them just isn't worth having to walk another twenty minutes to a quest objective. When I'm hunting for Skyshards or questing, I'm not going to rush in at any opponents I see out of some sense of honor - I'm keeping the heck away from anyone that could send me all the way back to the other side of the map.

FireCowCommando

forum double posted, deleted

FireCowCommando

@Kirsika If you read my post and that's all you got from it, you either didn't read my post or have not PvPed enough to know the type of situation i'm referring to.

ishilb14_ESO

FireCowCommando wrote: »

If you havnt seen a sorc spam the blink that disables you over your party 15x then you are not seeing what the current sorc blink is able to do. Without stam breaking it your group is done for.

The disorient is better than the stun, why? disorients doesn't trigger the CC cooldown, you can disorient an entire group of players until your mana pool runs out. In small organized group pvp, 2 mages blinking over one group that isnt able to properly move against the other is GG. Combo that with a DK or two rushing in and banner talons after means your group just wiped, or at the very least burnt all their resources on CC break/roll and then spamed heals to survive the incoming DMG from the other players.

Which group wins with one out of resources? Even if the group that is using a mage disorient doesnt get the drop on the other, you can blink so many times before you run out of mana you will eventually win. If the mage runs out of mana just spend a few seconds to regen, rinse repeat until they eventually get a chance to DK banner. (when you start to see 3 or 4 people not CC breaking the mage disorient you charge in and finish them)

From the way you describe, it seems like no one in your group knows how to block or use a CC. Since that's the case, anyone could beat you or your group without blink lol, I could probably kill your whole group just with light and heavy attacks lol

Teargrants

FireCowCommando wrote: »

@Kirsika If you read my post and that's all you got from it, you either didn't read my post or have not PvPed enough to know the type of situation i'm referring to.

Are you referring to what I quoted, or the ninja edit you added after?

FireCowCommando

Ninja edit? there was no ninja editing of my original post. i make adjustments immediately after posting making sure no one replied in time (if you look at timestamps your post is 12 minutes after my last edit). As far as the blocking part, actually yes, i do use block, and roll dodge, CC break, and every other mechanic in the game constantly. I have no problem with mage blink CC, i do have a problem with it being spammed a huge number of times in a row with how effective it can be in small/medium group pvp.

A mage who is making full use of this ability is an intelligent player, and as such is not so easy to counter as pressing 1 ability.

To explain his role in his group more clearly, his entire focus is to blink over the enemy group over and over hoping to get people to CC break to drain their stamina while charging his ult (magic damp) and cast it whenever its charged. The objective here is to try to catch players who ran out of stamina so the ranged players might get a kill, this is the prephase. Its the job of the Dk's to rush in and banner talon after enough stamina has been drained.

If you start to focus him (hard to target since hes picking where hes going) he blinks away (hard to chase since you have 12-17 other players casting spells on your group, trying to gain the upperhand so they can rush in and clear you) and he regens. Rinse repeat.

I suppose this is not so much a problem with blink itself, and disorient spamming itself. And if you still think i have no understanding of the game after this additional post then i am not going to reply again.

ishilb14_ESO

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Ninja edit? there was no ninja editing of my original post. i make adjustments immediately after posting making sure no one replied in time (if you look at timestamps your post is 12 minutes after my last edit). As far as the blocking part, actually yes, i do use block, and roll dodge, CC break, and every other mechanic in the game constantly. I have no problem with mage blink CC, i do have a problem with it being spammed a huge number of times in a row with how effective it can be in small/medium group pvp.

A mage who is making full use of this ability is an intelligent player, and as such is not so easy to counter as pressing 1 ability.

To explain his role in his group more clearly, his entire focus is to blink over the enemy group over and over hoping to get people to CC break to drain their stamina while charging his ult (magic damp) and cast it whenever its charged. The objective here is to try to catch players who ran out of stamina so the ranged players might get a kill, this is the prephase. Its the job of the Dk's to rush in and banner talon after enough stamina has been drained.

If you start to focus him (hard to target since hes picking where hes going) he blinks away (hard to chase since you have 12-17 other players casting spells on your group, trying to gain the upperhand so they can rush in and clear you) and he regens. Rinse repeat.

I suppose this is not so much a problem with blink itself, and disorient spamming itself. And if you still think i have no understanding of the game after this additional post then i am not going to reply again.

You're ignorant. CC break makes you immune to the negate magic bubble (you can cc break out of it as well) and any group that uses sorcs the way you described is a noob group fighting a dumb group that is having trouble dealing with it lol. Learn how the game works before you say stuff on the forums.

FireCowCommando

You missed the part where i stated i use all mechanics in the game. Of course i know how CC break works and the immunity it gives you. Both times you assume i am an idiot/"n00b" for discussing an aspect of the game that you may not have seen/experienced. As i said previously, enjoy talking to yourself. I hope you play the game more and are able to gain a more clear understanding of the situation i am presenting. Until that happens i doubt you will do anything other than continue to start your posts with insults. enjoy

Teargrants

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Ninja edit? there was no ninja editing of my original post. i make adjustments immediately after posting making sure no one replied in time (if you look at timestamps your post is 12 minutes after my last edit).

What I quoted was the entirety of your post at that time, then you edited it to add 2 more paragraphs substantially changing the content of the post after I replied, so yes ninja edit.

Your initial post didn't say anything other than one sorc keeping your group on lockdown, nothing about that sorc having his own TEAM as well. That's a pretty important detail yes?

ishilb14_ESO

FireCowCommando wrote: »

You missed the part where i stated i use all mechanics in the game. Of course i know how CC break works and the immunity it gives you. Both times you assume i am an idiot/"n00b" for discussing an aspect of the game that you may not have seen/experienced. As i said previously, enjoy talking to yourself. I hope you play the game more and are able to gain a more clear understanding of the situation i am presenting. Until that happens i doubt you will do anything other than continue to start your posts with insults. enjoy

You're contradicting yourself because if you did make use of all cc game mechanics, then the disorient from bolt escape wouldn't even be an issue lmao

Animus0724

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Bolt Escape and morphs have a pretty steep magic cost. It isn't really practical for them to abuse it in PVP, as even if they manage to put some distance between you, they will have no resources left to defend themselves.

Mist form was outrunning horses, which is probably why they nerfed it. I agree it would have been fun for exploring the world (I never even got to use it in its original state), but I don't think lowering the bar for all classes and skill combos is necessarily the best path to achieving balance.

Have you even played in PvP? you see sorcs spamming Bolt Escape all over the place???? Then they turn around and crystal shard you in the face while making lewd gestures about what they are about to do to your soon to be corpse.