Since Elusive Mist was Nerfed Bolt Escape NEEDS to be Nerfed too

NordJitsu

@AltusVenifus‌

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfoNKUloPjU

I'll expect that Big Foot video with in the hour thank you.

Halrloprillalar

NordJitsu wrote: »

@AltusVenifus‌

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfoNKUloPjU

I'll expect that Big Foot video with in the hour thank you.

This kind of *** happens to me all the time as sorc, people need to understand that BE isn't a 100% 'out of jail free' card.

OtarTheMad

That video pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say. lol.

NordJitsu

Funny thing is, the dude who posted that video was one of the "nerf BE" crowd. I posted my video explaining how to counter it. He commented and said that Invasion doesn't work because he loses track of them. I suggested tab-targeting the Sorc and....voila.

A week later he posts a video of him executing a perfect counter. Yet, to save face, he still has to maintain a shadow of his former position by saying its still OP in some situations.

Yet he just posted a video showing how it can be countered. lol

Halrloprillalar

to be completely fair, the sorc in that video seems a little bit of a ... keyboardturner, if you catch my drift.

scy22b14_ESO

Nordjitsu,

Your continued crusade to comment on every bolt escape thread reeks of desperation to save an overtly broken ability, simply because it's a handicap you've grown to need to compete.

I don't blame you. You need it to compete. Everyone needs it to compete. That's the very reason it's broken. You and a handful of others will defend it with your dying breath. But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority is against you on this. Set your hubris aside and consider the "me against the world" quest for a second. You are wrong, your flock is wrong. If you gave even the smallest of F*cks about this game, you should concede. Because the sad truth is, in the end, the only ones that are going to stick around are the ones who conform to the Bolt escape wars.

The very fact that Zenimax hasn't done anything about this skill yet, on principal alone, gives me very little hope for the future of this game. At this point I could gladly watch it burn.

Teargrants

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority is against you on this. Set your hubris aside and consider the "me against the world" quest for a second. You are wrong, your flock is wrong. If you gave even the smallest of F*cks about this game, you should concede. Because the sad truth is, in the end, the only ones that are going to stick around are the ones who conform to the Bolt escape wars.

Such anger, might I direct your attention to this? Please don't throw out random claims about 'the vast majority'.

NordJitsu

@scy22b14_ESO‌

Thank you for the laughs sir.

My continued crusade to preserve my own class abilities is surely the reason I wrote a big long post about Templar buffs or the reason I spent hours of my own time testing and recording a video about Night Blade bugs (which I still have to upload, with apologies to the devs, though I did post my write up with findings.)

I'm really not concerned with preserving my own "advantage" with Bolt Escape since I legitimately believe its uses are highly situational and not in the least over powered. There's plenty of abilities that I can and do replace it with that give me more use in more situations.

But again, my main concern would be what it would say about the devs, that they're incapable of distinguishing between legitimate balance complaints and childish whining. Fortunately, I believe they've demonstrated that they won't be touching the ability through public comments and inaction despite the loud moaning from the qq'ing minority.

IcyDeadPeople

Grim13 wrote: »

Have you played PvP!? I've seen plenty of Sorcerers spam Bolt Escape 5-6+ times... maybe more, but by then they'd left my area of the map...

If it's super important to you to chase down bolt escape mages, use Steed mundus stone with legendary divines trait gear, movement speed passives (e.g., dodge roll speed buff) and drink a speed potion. You will catch them by the time they run out of magicka.

SilentThunder

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

Either put Elusive MIst back at 45% so ALL classes are equal or NERF Bolt Escape so Sorcs can't escape every single combat they are losing.

Since when does vamp = ALL classes ?
And I def agree bolt escape needs to be changed. I think it should go on a 20-30 sec CD if the sorc makes more than 1 aggressive (damaging) attack. I am really sick of Sorcs that attack me then bolt escape away out of clip range because they are loosing. If you started it you should have to stay till the fight is finished.

Teargrants

SilentThunder wrote: »

I am really sick of Sorcs that attack me then bolt escape away out of clip range because they are loosing. If you started it you should have to stay till the fight is finished.

I am really sick of DKs that I attack tanking everything and forcing me to bolt escape away out of clip range because I'm loosing. My Sorc should be able to tank everything too if I have to stay till the fight is finished.

I can play the word game too.

SilentThunder

You attacked them and they stayed to fight yet somehow there ability to "tank" comes as a surprise and is somehow unfair ? very bad logic there.

Teargrants

You didn't get the joke, did you?

ThreeEyedCrow

SilentThunder wrote: »

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

Either put Elusive MIst back at 45% so ALL classes are equal or NERF Bolt Escape so Sorcs can't escape every single combat they are losing.

Since when does vamp = ALL classes ?
And I def agree bolt escape needs to be changed. I think it should go on a 20-30 sec CD if the sorc makes more than 1 aggressive (damaging) attack. I am really sick of Sorcs that attack me then bolt escape away out of clip range because they are loosing. If you started it you should have to stay till the fight is finished.

Well I meant that Vampire Elusive Mist is at least something that all classes have access to, should they choose it.

Probably the better solution is to increase magicka cost and maybe decrease its range so that it can't be spammed 5+ times.

Bring it more in line with Elusive Mist currently is the template I would like to see.

During the Nerf Vampires threads, one point brought up a lot was how it was unfair that Elusive Mist was faster than a horse. So they lowered the speed increase and increase magicka cost.

I would like the same to happen to Bolt Escape to bring it in line with other skills. Especially considering Sorcs seemed to get quite a healthy DPS buff this last patch.

true2moon_ESO

they might as well revert the vamp nerf and just let everyone run away from pvp with the stupid bolt escape in the game. who needs pvp, just let everyone run away there zenimax....

true2moon_ESO

lol @ that video, #1 the sorc was using other skills, when he could have just spamming bolt esacpe. #2 not everyone runs 1h and shield. So to make me play 1h and shield just so I can fight sorcs in pvp is just stupid.

again, just un-nerf the vamp sprint, and let everyone run away from combat, then we will have a wonderful game of grab ass with no pvp....

Glurin

true2moon_ESO wrote: »

lol @ that video, #1 the sorc was using other skills, when he could have just spamming bolt esacpe. #2 not everyone runs 1h and shield. So to make me play 1h and shield just so I can fight sorcs in pvp is just stupid.

1) He was just spamming bolt escape until he decided to stay and fight. (Which isn't that what you people are complaining about anyway? He stayed, fought, and died. Isn't that exactly what you wanted?)

2) Nobody said you had to, or that it was the one an only way to fight a sorcerer.

true2moon_ESO

no its sorcs that just spam BE and get away all the time, its stupid and it ruins pvp.

there is no way to fight a sorc, they can choose to leave any battle at any time and get away the majority of the time.

the video states how to fight a sorc with BE, but fact of the matter is there is no way to catch one, outside of having other sorcs around. PvP is a sorc game now.

this just leads to more zerg play which is craptastic with the current lag situation on the servers.

you cant have a good pvp game, where you just allow players to leave combat so easy.

Snit

Bolt Escape can be countered by most classes. Nightblades are actually faster than sorcs. This excellent video shows how the counters work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Not to be snarky, but this is a learn-to-play issue, and it's very simple stuff.

Nijjion

Glurin wrote: »

1) He was just spamming bolt escape until he decided to stay and fight. (Which isn't that what you people are complaining about anyway? He stayed, fought, and died. Isn't that exactly what you wanted?)

Of course it is but then not all sorcs do this... you need to force it onto them or they will abuse it and will run like little girls all the time, even if the situation looks a little bit bad for them.

I don't think or haven't seen anyone cry about wanting the skill completely destroyed... just stopping any competent sorc being able to get out of any fight s/he wants.

There needs to be some sort of change where BE can only be used a few times as a melee get out of range skill (which it is designed for in any game) but in ESO it is designed as a get out of any fight I want skill.... which is just idiotic in a RvR type game without a cooldown. Sure other games had free get out of jail card but it had 10-20 min timers... BE doesn't have this. Granted the charge ability will have to be changed as well with BE as to not make sorcs BE useless. Zenimax has a hard task ahead of them changing BE but it needs to be done... for the balance!

Xsorus

Every game seems to have that 1 class that can escape all fights, and the noobs that think its fine

Warhammer Had Shamans
in Rift it was Nightblade/Bards Combo
in GW2 it was Thieves
and in this game its Sorcs

NordJitsu

The exaggeration here is priceless.

If you really think that a good Sorc can "get out of any fight he wants" then I encourage you to roll a Sorcerer, level him up, and try it out. I think you'll find that BE has a much lower success rate than you presume.

And if Sorcs are getting away from YOU 100% of the time? You're doing something wrong. Keep practicing, work on your skills. That shouldn't be happening.

But remember, your gameplay experience is not representative of all players.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

If all classes had escapes built into their class, I don't think this would be a big deal. Sorcs and Nightblades are the only ones right now, and sorc's is a bit better

Snit wrote: »

Bolt Escape can be countered by most classes. Nightblades are actually faster than sorcs. This excellent video shows how the counters work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Not to be snarky, but this is a learn-to-play issue, and it's very simple stuff.

Choreographed fight... the sorc here is clearly letting the DK catch him. DK not even trying to kill him. Not very viable evidence. The other video is way better, delete yours.

A normal sorc would have been long gone if he chose to do so. The sorc in other video chose to fight and they were clearly trying to kill each other, and there was even interference in the fierce 1-on-1 encounter.

There is training, and then there is war. Nothing ever happens like it does in training. I should be offended by this crap.

ReQu

Bolt Escape is the best move in PvP 1 button spam escape i have no problem with,
Its just too good offensively... A free reposition with a CC. Sorc's are the only class with the "get out of jail free card" its just too easy engage stun and unload your rotation or fail and run "please show me the video where the sorc uses his surroundings i wish it was so simple as to run in a straight line on a perfect path, controlled test environment's don't show the move off unless you put some effort into it sorry"

1.) Change Stun with a Snare.

2.) Gradually increase the magika cost of continued use while the
magika regen is haulted.

3.)Gradually increase how long magika regen is haulted on continued use

4.)mix of option 2/3

5.)increase duration magika regen is haulted

Option 1 is a nerf i will admit but i had to put in any of the others i think would be a step in the right direction.

Halrloprillalar

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

Bring it more in line with Elusive Mist currently is the template I would like to see.

Ok, then let it give us invisibility and 75% DR??? U wot m8

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

I would like the same to happen to Bolt Escape to bring it in line with other skills. Especially considering Sorcs seemed to get quite a healthy DPS buff this last patch.

What dps buff??? Where is MY DPS BUFF DAMMIT

Orizuru

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Every game seems to have that 1 class that can escape all fights, and the noobs that think its fine

Warhammer Had Shamans
in Rift it was Nightblade/Bards Combo
in GW2 it was Thieves
and in this game its Sorcs

So running away from a fight that you are losing to reset and try again is not allowed?

In my opinion the guy who stands his ground and dies when he should have run away is the noob. History doesn't reveal General Custer to be some great military genius for standing his ground, it just shows that he was a fool.

Baphomet

A 1 sec casting time would fix it so that sorcs who use it for displacement can still use it but the chicken sorcs can be stopped if one would be successful in charging him and then bash him.

The first video is really nice because the sorc wants to stay and fight but is trying to get the initiative in the fight - which bolt escape should be used for.

The other video is rubbish. Fact of the matter is that if a sorc really, really wants to escape, bolt escape is a 90% sure get-away if you have the resource. If you spam bolt escape, you might have people catching up using gap-closers once or twice, but after that you're home free.

Super fast mist form players can actually catch up with a bolt mage and so can people who happen to be mounted on a maxed out speed horse.

On the PTS, before vampirism, my VR sorc got away from 99% of the situations I really, really wanted to get out of. And that's the biggest problem with bolt escape - it's the fact that it allows sorcerers to disengage from combat sooo easily.

ThreeEyedCrow

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Ok, then let it give us invisibility and 75% DR???

Mist doesn't give invisibility, it makes you a mist. You can still see it. Also Talons will root someone with Mist indefinitely as Mist costs much more than Talons. Talons has no affect on blinking.

Its silly to play the same abilities game anyway but you probably know this (or I would hope you do).

What dps buff??? Where is MY DPS BUFF DAMMIT

If you don't know what skills to use to get DPS as high as sorcs I have both fought with and against, then google a bit and I am sure you can discover the builds for yourself.

MrDosu

Yes this has been hilarious dev work.

Nerfing Elusive Mist because it gave too much mobility in order to "bring it in line with boundless" (official reasoning) while preserving all other forms of the exact same mobility.

INB4 scrubby sorcs whining.

ThreeEyedCrow

Baphomet wrote: »

A 1 sec casting time would fix it so that sorcs who use it for displacement can still use it but the chicken sorcs can be stopped if one would be successful in charging him and then bash him.

The first video is really nice because the sorc wants to stay and fight but is trying to get the initiative in the fight - which bolt escape should be used for.

The other video is rubbish. Fact of the matter is that if a sorc really, really wants to escape, bolt escape is a 90% sure get-away if you have the resource. If you spam bolt escape, you might have people catching up using gap-closers once or twice, but after that you're home free.

Super fast mist form players can actually catch up with a bolt mage and so can people who happen to be mounted on a maxed out speed horse.

I like your first suggestion.

Also, with the horse comment, its irrelevant usually because it takes so long to drop out of combat to mount your horse.

What about just letting people mount horse in combat?

I can't see that being broken because 99% of the time trying to mount a horse in combat would be silly and just get you killed.