Since Elusive Mist was Nerfed Bolt Escape NEEDS to be Nerfed too

ThreeEyedCrow

As the title says.

Since ZoS nerfed Elusive Mist then Bolt Escape needs to be nerfed to.

It unbalanced that one class can escape ANY combat they are losing.

Either put Elusive MIst back at 45% so ALL classes are equal or NERF Bolt Escape so Sorcs can't escape every single combat they are losing.

GrimCyclone

Yeah this is a no brainer. You take away my fun mist that helped me travel, then you should take away their lightning crap. All they do in pvp is warp around you and dd you. Sometimes you can't track them with lag. It's OP.

Either give 49% original speed increase mist back or nerf their lightning crap.

Phinix1

Bolt Escape and morphs have a pretty steep magic cost. It isn't really practical for them to abuse it in PVP, as even if they manage to put some distance between you, they will have no resources left to defend themselves.

Mist form was outrunning horses, which is probably why they nerfed it. I agree it would have been fun for exploring the world (I never even got to use it in its original state), but I don't think lowering the bar for all classes and skill combos is necessarily the best path to achieving balance.

Baphomet

Bolt escape just needs a 1 sec cast time to prevent spammage.

Bitz_Maidenhell

stop complaining about bolt escape, it is an ESCAPE skill. this game is not about killing 1 person or dumping all your stamina to chase them down. Look at the bigger picture, this is not a 1v1 PvP game.

Baphomet

Bolt escape is one of the best offensive abilities in game, too. Better realize that sooner than later.

The new flavor of the month is vampire sorcs using critical surge+elusive mist+streak+clouding swarm and bolt back and forth in crowds of people.

If you ever thought DKs used to be strong, try this.

Glurin

Bolt escape stuns (blockable) or just disorients (also blockable) with Streak morph for two seconds and has a hefty magicka cost, dealing very little damage. Spamming it will eat your magicka pool very quickly. No CC immunity. No damage reduction. (Ball lighting absorbs spell projectiles, but last I heard there's a lot of confusion currently on exactly how it works and what is counted as a spell projectile.) If the stun is blocked, it essentially just moves you from one spot to another. This makes it a poor choice for a primary offensive skill.

Elusive Mist currently reduces all damage taken by 75% and grants immunity to CC (or is supposed to. Still bugged?) and increases speed by 30% for four seconds. Also has a high cost, but vampires get extra cost reduction. Doesn't need to be spammed.

So, why would a previous nerf to one that brought it in line with other escape mechanics necessitate the nerfing of the other into near uselessness?

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Glurin wrote: »

Bolt escape stuns (blockable) or just disorients (also blockable) with Streak morph for two seconds and has a hefty magicka cost, dealing very little damage. Spamming it will eat your magicka pool very quickly. No CC immunity. No damage reduction. (Ball lighting absorbs spell projectiles, but last I heard there's a lot of confusion currently on exactly how it works and what is counted as a spell projectile.) If the stun is blocked, it essentially just moves you from one spot to another. This makes it a poor choice for a primary offensive skill.

Elusive Mist currently reduces all damage taken by 75% and grants immunity to CC (or is supposed to. Still bugged?) and increases speed by 30% for four seconds. Also has a high cost, but vampires get extra cost reduction. Doesn't need to be spammed.

So, why would a previous nerf to one that brought it in line with other escape mechanics necessitate the nerfing of the other into near uselessness?

It is a "Nerf Bolt Escape" thread. There doesn't need to be reason or logic, it will just happen, and there is no....


escaping it.

ThreeEyedCrow

I would actually prefer Elusive Mist just be returned to 45% but barring that happening I feel that Bolt Escape shouldn't completely negate roots.

You shouldn't be able to just Bolt Escape out of roots.

Orizuru

If Bolt Escape is OP, then please let the argument stand upon it's own merit by discussing Bolt Escape.

If Mist is weak, then please let that argument stand upon it's own merit by discussing Mist.

Saying one needs a nerf because of the other though, is a perfect example of a Straw Man Argument and logical fallacy that will only serve to detract from the points you are trying to make.

Rosanna_Foxfire

If I can't bolt escape to get away, how else will I get away? Spamming it with a full magicka bar gives me about enough time to attempt to get on my horse if someone's following me.

Heaven forbid someone have a fast horse or a knockdown or anything that would prevent me from casting it as I escape. Guess there's nothing to even remotely stop that. Like Magnum Shot, or Crystal Shards or anything, really.

PhoenixWing

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

If Bolt Escape is OP, then please let the argument stand upon it's own merit by discussing Bolt Escape.

If Mist is weak, then please let that argument stand upon it's own merit by discussing Mist.

Saying one needs a nerf because of the other though, is a perfect example of a Straw Man Argument and logical fallacy that will only serve to detract from the points you are trying to make.

Totally agreed!
Elusive mist might need a bit buff, but never be because bolt escape is not nerfed.
Bolt escape might need a bit nerf, but not because elusive mist is nerfed.

Anyway, I also feel bolt escape is a little too powerful. It feels like "sorcerer exclusive" when you an enemy sorcerer use bolt escape to escape and I have to use it to chase them (or is that a good thing idk lol).

OtarTheMad

I have to say that it's threads like this that will get Bolt Escaped nerfed and make Sorcerer's very hard to play in PvP. Glurin made a good point too.

Bolt escape does not make Sorcerer's super human, as I have said in other threads. I would love to see some people make a light armored Sorcerer and go into Cyrodiil with it and not use Bolt Escape every now and then. Simply put Sorcerer's are not made to take damage so if we get into a situation where we go up against a NB or a DK chances are we will lose. I understand that some Sorcerer's use it over and over and over as some strange offensive skill but truth is... usually those players, even high level, put so much into Magicka I bet a level 25 with a half decent build could kill them without a thought

I will be disappointed if Zenimax nerfs this skill and makes it impossible to PvP with a Sorcerer... each class has a unique skill that can be frustrating to those on the opposite side... learn to counter it and problem solved.

torplin

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Teargrants

I'd like to add that elusive mist also got a pretty hefty boost: it makes you fully invisible now!

NordJitsu

Your reasoning is fallacious.

Laura

elusive mist is an optional vampire ability and bolt escape is a class ability they hardly have the same weight

Grim13

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Bolt Escape and morphs have a pretty steep magic cost. It isn't really practical for them to abuse it in PVP, as even if they manage to put some distance between you, they will have no resources left to defend themselves.

Mist form was outrunning horses, which is probably why they nerfed it. I agree it would have been fun for exploring the world (I never even got to use it in its original state), but I don't think lowering the bar for all classes and skill combos is necessarily the best path to achieving balance.

Have you played PvP!? I've seen plenty of Sorcerers spam Bolt Escape 5-6+ times... maybe more, but by then they'd left my area of the map...

demonlkojipub19_ESO

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Bolt Escape and morphs have a pretty steep magic cost. It isn't really practical for them to abuse it in PVP, as even if they manage to put some distance between you, they will have no resources left to defend themselves.

Mist form was outrunning horses, which is probably why they nerfed it. I agree it would have been fun for exploring the world (I never even got to use it in its original state), but I don't think lowering the bar for all classes and skill combos is necessarily the best path to achieving balance.

I find the "steep magka cost" hard to believe as I see them bolt escaping 10+ times in a row across the whole field. I see it actually costing less than mist form at base.

People could also still take damage while in mist form and you could see where the vamp was running to, it wasn't an instant "oh damn which way did he go" get-away.

I did see a vid of how "hard" it was to kill someone who was elusive misting away, but he still died. Now I don't see anyone using elusive mist because its obvious bolt escape has become better. It costs too much magicka for the utility.

Teargrants

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I find the "steep magka cost" hard to believe as I see them bolt escaping 10+ times in a row across the whole field. I see it actually costing less than mist form at base.

People could also still take damage while in mist form and you could see where the vamp was running to, it wasn't an instant "oh damn which way did he go" get-away.

1 - Bolt escape is the most expensive skill on my bar, barring Crystal Shards (but I only use it when it procs for 50% cost).

2 - People who you see casting bolt escape '10+ times' DURING COMBAT (meaning they already used magica on other things) are spec'ed out for it with gear and skill points: 7 light armor + Vestments of the Warlock set for 577 magica recovery when under 33% max magica (1 minute cooldown) + spell cost reduction jewelry + popping a mana pot. FYI I can cast bolt escape 13x w/o using potions before I'm oom - but that's from full magica and w/ non-combat regen. I didn't list dark conversion because I almost never use it, stamina is more important for CC break and sneak for my playstyle.

3 - People take greatly reduced damage in mist form, I still take FULL damage in bolt escape. Here's the best counter to bolt escape: ANOTHER SORC. Whenever I see someone running w/ streak, I start bolting after them, most of the time shards procs by the time I get in range, once it hits them they're dead. Ball of lightning is more problematic, for that you have to chase with curse and mages fury or spam bow skills.

4 - Since the Craglorn patch, mist form MAKES YOU 100% INVISIBLE after the first 1-2 sec.

PhoenixWing

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Bolt Escape and morphs have a pretty steep magic cost. It isn't really practical for them to abuse it in PVP, as even if they manage to put some distance between you, they will have no resources left to defend themselves.

Mist form was outrunning horses, which is probably why they nerfed it. I agree it would have been fun for exploring the world (I never even got to use it in its original state), but I don't think lowering the bar for all classes and skill combos is necessarily the best path to achieving balance.

I find the "steep magka cost" hard to believe as I see them bolt escaping 10+ times in a row across the whole field. I see it actually costing less than mist form at base.

People could also still take damage while in mist form and you could see where the vamp was running to, it wasn't an instant "oh damn which way did he go" get-away.

I did see a vid of how "hard" it was to kill someone who was elusive misting away, but he still died. Now I don't see anyone using elusive mist because its obvious bolt escape has become better. It costs too much magicka for the utility.

While 10+ times are definitely possible, sorc that can bolt 10+ times probably have full mana, meaning they have never attacked anyone. Looking from the battle point of view, they pose no threat to you or your team, neither offensively nor defensively.

The only thing that is frustrating is that it is hard to score a kill by ganking sorcs, thus making it harder to gain AP. Although this does not have much impact on the Alliance war itself, I guess people are calling for nerfs because they wanna kill sorcs for AP lol.

Teargrants

PhoenixWing wrote: »

I guess people are calling for nerfs because they wanna kill sorcs for AP lol.

Please! Can we compromise? Those calling for nerfs - I'll stand there and let you kill me X number of times a day and you stop QQing about bolt escape, sound fair?

Fuzzylumpkins

It is easy to spot the easymode players that rushed to make flavour of the month toons to abuse rabidly until nerf. They are the ones that say nothing when something is broken and SCREAM/CRY/WHINE/TYPE the loudest the minute there 1 shot beast cleave type spec is tuned down a few notches.

SeinSchatten

Bolt will be nerfed. No matter if it is required for balancing or not.

OtarTheMad

SeinSchatten wrote: »

Bolt will be nerfed. No matter if it is required for balancing or not.

I can see that in the future too despite all the defense of it. I'll laugh when it's nerfed and then those who complained make a light armor Sorcerer and then say "buff Sorcerer, we're too squishy in PvP"... weeeelllll we had a skill that helped with that lol.

I use it to chase others in mist form and bolt escape (since I have Streak) but if they nerf it that just means I'll have to change up the way I play but really... it'll be hard to run with my Sorcerer. I've tried the last few days to not use Bolt Escape at all and it's been okay but whenever I run into a NB or DK I'm done... I can't bolt behind him or anything like that... just run some instant cast spells and hope I can kill him before he kills me.

Halrloprillalar

If you are bitching about BE, there are 2 solutions for you:

1)Be a sorc

2)Use shield charge/crit charge+KD

chris.m.tannehill_ESO

This whole thread is a joke and all of you crying for nerfs are little baby's. Stop expecting the game to be so easy and adapt. They give you all of the tools to do so . I catch up to Sorcs all day long and i'm a NB/DK.

All you sissified nancies too lazy to try something new or an alternate tactic is what's going to ruin this game with your nerf bats blindly swinging.

Don't nerf. We're doing fine Zenimax. Carebears ever want it easier.

Glurin

Grim13 wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Bolt Escape and morphs have a pretty steep magic cost. It isn't really practical for them to abuse it in PVP, as even if they manage to put some distance between you, they will have no resources left to defend themselves.

Mist form was outrunning horses, which is probably why they nerfed it. I agree it would have been fun for exploring the world (I never even got to use it in its original state), but I don't think lowering the bar for all classes and skill combos is necessarily the best path to achieving balance.

Have you played PvP!? I've seen plenty of Sorcerers spam Bolt Escape 5-6+ times... maybe more, but by then they'd left my area of the map...

Yeah, and then you just lay down and die because there's just no point in your character living anymore after seeing the sorcerer's awesome ability to...



Er, wait. No you don't. Actually nothing happens to your character. Like, literally nothing. They just kind of stand there. No AP gain or loss. No debuf. No missing underwear. Nothing.

Well, maybe they do kind of look stupid standing there staring at a dust cloud. That's not enough to justify nerfing the skill though.

ishilb14_ESO

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I find the "steep magka cost" hard to believe as I see them bolt escaping 10+ times in a row across the whole field. I see it actually costing less than mist form at base.

People could also still take damage while in mist form and you could see where the vamp was running to, it wasn't an instant "oh damn which way did he go" get-away.

I did see a vid of how "hard" it was to kill someone who was elusive misting away, but he still died. Now I don't see anyone using elusive mist because its obvious bolt escape has become better. It costs too much magicka for the utility.

What you, and many others, fail to realize is that sorcs have the HIGHEST base costs for their class skills among the 4 classes. This is because when sorcs were designed, the designers figured that most sorcs would wear full light armor and would therefore reduce the costs to much lower. That being said, the other classes have class abilities which allow them to heal without casting, a sorc's only class ability self heal requires it to be channeled, so sorcs must put some distance between themselves and their opponent before they can think about healing up, unless they run restoration staff (which other classes do not need to) So now you guys arguing about Bolt Escape being OP, it's only strong point is being able to exit combat, it is not very useful in a fight against a competent opponent who consistently uses block, which by the way reduces the damage that bolt escape will do to them to about 80-120 (at the cost of 258 magicka with full light armor on for me) and completely negates the disorient in the case of the Streak morph. Many sorcs also have a relatively low stamina pool because they reserve their points and glyphs for increasing their health and magicka, and so can only break out of a stun in a fight at most twice and that's assuming they don't roll out of an immobilizer (contrary to the baseless popular belief, bolt escape does NOT unroot a sorc, it just allows them some mobility while still being rooted). All this being said, I do believe though that some sort of disincentive or debuff should be placed to prevent sorcs from being able to teleport more than 4 times in a row (meaning within 2 seconds of the last teleport) such as a damaging debuff that does an increasing amount of damage to the sorc for each teleport in a row after 4 teleports. Bolt Escape needs to be balanced, NOT nerfed.

OtarTheMad

youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Countering bolt escape tutorial video... bring a pen and paper lol.

AltusVenifus

chris.m.tannehill_ESO wrote: »

This whole thread is a joke and all of you crying for nerfs are little baby's. Stop expecting the game to be so easy and adapt. They give you all of the tools to do so . I catch up to Sorcs all day long and i'm a NB/DK.

All you sissified nancies too lazy to try something new or an alternate tactic is what's going to ruin this game with your nerf bats blindly swinging.

Don't nerf. We're doing fine Zenimax. Carebears ever want it easier.

I have seen this same BS a lot. Show me a video of u fighting a Sorc, he spams bolt escape and u catch him. I will show u a video of the bigfoot.