Be VERY carefull what you wish for

Sakiri

Blackwidow wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

ESO is a mix of several games. Wide world as EQ, player driven market as EVE, as little as possible in common with WoW!

You never played EQ if you think ESO is an open world like EQ.

I saw your post about how you have not lost anyone from your guild except two players and you get 3 people a week.

You must have the only guild in ESO that is not losing people.

This IS a PC game.

Then why is the GUI designed as a console?

No I have the only guild that isnt losing people.

My regulars are still on and my other two are spradic at best like the last two games.

Vlaxitov

Blackwidow wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

ESO is a mix of several games. Wide world as EQ, player driven market as EVE, as little as possible in common with WoW!

You never played EQ if you think ESO is an open world like EQ.

I saw your post about how you have not lost anyone from your guild except two players and you get 3 people a week.

You must have the only guild in ESO that is not losing people.

To be blunt, I kind of hate the world and terrain design in this game. They tried to make tiny spaces go a long way with hideous choke points and a long walk around to separate levels scheme. Games like EQ and AO had worlds that were literally over 100 times larger than ESO's world and 100 times more convenient to navigate.

YstradClud

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

VlVEC wrote: »

Considering they have a PS4/Xbox One console launch upcoming I doubt this game is going away any time soon.

Won't ever happen.

? Or course it's going to happen. Zenimax will make a lot of money of consoles if they can get ESO to play on them. Makes business sense.

Vlaxitov

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

VlVEC wrote: »

Considering they have a PS4/Xbox One console launch upcoming I doubt this game is going away any time soon.

Won't ever happen.

? Or course it's going to happen. Zenimax will make a lot of money of consoles if they can get ESO to play on them. Makes business sense.

They've been complaining about how hard of a task its been, pushing the date back. We'll see..

SFBryan18

There will always be people saying a game is dead, a game is not fun, go play something else, this game is awesome, nothing needs to be nerfed, everything is OP, blah blah blah...

It's up to the developers to make the right decisions.

Blackwidow

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It's up to the developers to make the right decisions.

OMG, we are all screwed.

penguinlaraub17_ESO

Blackwidow wrote: »

This IS a PC game.

Then why is the GUI designed as a console?

Could not say it better myself. So damn annoying trying to get the right potion you need in the middle of a fight. That is a huge turn off for a game made for PC.

Korah_Eaglecry

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Crassius wrote: »

Food for thought? Nah, that's just common sense. Unfortunately, it's the least common of all senses.

Double in MMO's.

Yup. The problem is when they go too far and start stripping out the MMO features to the extent that those with less experience in this genre don't understand why the game isn't engaging them, yet obvious things to veterans like having nameplate options with guild tags to help foster community, and being able to move your UI elements around, display health #'s on your bars optionally, etc. are no-brainers. It's a definite balance but they've gone too far frankly in the "'mursion" direction without even having options like nameplates doable through addons.

If Gamers leave the game because of the 'lack' of nameplates. Theres something wrong with the community and not the game.

Blackwidow

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

If Gamers leave the game because of the 'lack' of nameplates. Theres something wrong with the community and not the game.

But the reason you leave games is perfectly logical?

Everyone has reasons for leaving a game. Your reasons are no more valid than anyone elses.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

We need tough games, we need easy games. Right now this game doesn't know what it wants to be. A Flip-flopping smorgasbord. With a severe personality disorder.

They'll figure it out by Christmas.

Blackwidow

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

We need tough games, we need easy games. Right now this game doesn't know what it wants to be. A Flip-flopping smorgasbord. With a severe personality disorder.

They'll figure it out by Christmas.

Merry Christmas! ESO is SOL, so it's F2P!

YstradClud

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

We need tough games, we need easy games. Right now this game doesn't know what it wants to be. A Flip-flopping smorgasbord. With a severe personality disorder.

They'll figure it out by Christmas.

The joys of catering to a mmo community

ZOS_LonnyL

A lot of you have really good points. I just wanted to point out that the /feedback command in-game is also a great way to let us know how you feel, or what changes you would like to see in upcoming patches, etc.

Nooblet

This game is certainly not hardcore. Some of the "casual content" such as quests etc might be slightly harder than most mmos.. the game has a very low skill ceiling compared to almost every mmo though.

hamon

jimdove wrote: »

EVE online has survived and is flourishing. And it is about the most hardcore game, not just mmo, that one can play.

fair point tho i would say its very niche cos its about spaceships and stuff. and if your into spaceship mmo's your kinda limited..

Vlaxitov

hamon wrote: »

jimdove wrote: »

EVE online has survived and is flourishing. And it is about the most hardcore game, not just mmo, that one can play.

fair point tho i would say its very niche cos its about spaceships and stuff. and if your into spaceship mmo's your kinda limited..

The only thing really hardcore about EVE is that it is literally hardcore as in when you lose you lose big. Outside of that my eyelids get heavy just thinking about "playing" that game and I really wanted to like it when I tried it.

hamon

Katkon wrote: »

I've got to be honest and speak up. I honestly don't understand all the complaining about the game being too hard. It really isn't. If folks are getting stomped by small mobs in low level VR content they need to change their build. I really think it's that simple.

I'm an average MMO player - on a good day. And have no problems; am actually enjoying the challenge vs certain other MMOs.
-
I will say this: I *thought* I had a decent build when I started PvEing early on. Then I went to PvP and realized I was terrible, as was my build. I fine-tuned it a bit in PvP and now use the identical build in PvE - so that helped.

So, folks that are finding it too difficult simply need to play around with builds, reallocate skill/attribute points, ensure equipment is up-to-date, enchant, eat food/drink potions, add heavier armor if squishy etc.

Honestly - if I can figure it out, anyone can!

you make your point in a non hostile way props for that. but the problem is there shouldn't just be an "it" you need to figure out.. there should be multiple "its". i,m a templar just hit vr11. my "it" seems to be drop melee and heavy armour and stick to detro/resto staff.

i could use 1h/shield up till yesterday with jabs and vamp stuff. (not as effieciently as destro/resto) but more pleasing to me. back in sub60 i could get some fun out the bow as well.

so my options went from bow which became non viable. to either staffs or 1hand then finally to staffs or deaths all the time.

so i know what my "it" is , i just dont think its good to have all my choices narrowed to 1 due to a difficulty of content for normal open play. i dont mind dungeons and some group stuff being tricky, there i have no issues with being the healer and using my staff. but i really enjoyed having the frredom to play sub-optimal builds and still being albe to progress , i knew i was doing it slower because of that choice but i,m fine with that..

I think some folk have difficulty in understanding why folk wouldnt want to find out the most optimal build as their sole purpose. then play that for its effectiveness regardless which weapons skills they had to use.
hence they make statements like yours )tho mostly not as reasonable and polite) due to that lack of understanding

Cogo

ZOS_LonnyL wrote: »

A lot of you have really good points. I just wanted to point out that the /feedback command in-game is also a great way to let us know how you feel, or what changes you would like to see in upcoming patches, etc.

Oh thank you! I have a few ideas but starting to not wanting to post anything here that is positive, since you pretty much automaticly get attacked for stating "the wrong" opinion.

Lately there even been outright baseless accusations towards me. And some have even had the honor to tell me that I come across as a "fan boy"

Like its not ok to like this game. I am as bothered with bugs,fixes and other things as other people, but after playing MMOs since the 90ies, There hasn't been a single one who dont have to patch/balance/fix/take away or whatever. It's normal. As long as I see zenimax working and communicating, I dont go all out negative....which has started to be a small crime by some people, heh.

I like discussions and hear different views. But I cant stand drama or outride rudeness along with fake "facts".

Thanks for the tip!

Cogo

hamon wrote: »

I think some folk have difficulty in understanding why folk wouldnt want to find out the most optimal build as their sole purpose. then play that for its effectiveness regardless which weapons skills they had to use.
hence they make statements like yours )tho mostly not as reasonable and polite) due to that lack of understanding

I am starting to find it a bit funny that all these addons, calculations and choices are only based so they can maximize their abilities. No one seams to even consider that balance is a constant work and if a skill looks too good to be true, it possibly is.

So who can you blame for picking certain things that later will not be interesting because, what some people calls fixes " got nerfed".

Unless you missed it. The core of ESO is YOU decide your build, whatever you want to do.

Then some people blame the game, others for the mistake THEY did.

You picked it, so the "blame" for picking wrong or whatever can only be the person who picked it. I find that a bit funny....

RazzPitazz

Cogo wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

I think some folk have difficulty in understanding why folk wouldnt want to find out the most optimal build as their sole purpose. then play that for its effectiveness regardless which weapons skills they had to use.
hence they make statements like yours )tho mostly not as reasonable and polite) due to that lack of understanding

I am starting to find it a bit funny that all these addons, calculations and choices are only based so they can maximize their abilities. No one seams to even consider that balance is a constant work and if a skill looks too good to be true, it possibly is.

So who can you blame for picking certain things that later will not be interesting because, what some people calls fixes " got nerfed".

Unless you missed it. The core of ESO is YOU decide your build, whatever you want to do.

Then some people blame the game, others for the mistake THEY did.

You picked it, so the "blame" for picking wrong or whatever can only be the person who picked it. I find that a bit funny....

Yes and no on this one. Absolutely the only one responsible for a decision is the one who made it. However, not to be nasty, its not likely that there are many in-game who have the foresight to go "thats going to get nerfed eventually, I should pass on that."
To which the blame can be easily shifted to the ones who decided to make the changes. Its a nasty loop.

Cogo

I think its also a matter how you see your character.

For example, in wow, very few people even bothered what race they where. the only thing they where interested in, was the racial trait.

ESO is the opposite. Choose what feels right for you. A night blade high elf that wants to tank? Erhm....maybe not the best compination if you think in numbers and effects, but thats not what this game is about. YOU build what YOU feel is right for you. Whatever that may be.

And the magic wonderful feature is....nothing is "the correct" thing.

The idea is to choose a look, lore, story, build, abilties that you find interesting and you want to build on.

Sure, it matters how good a skill is, but this is a Skill based MMO. And even if ESO is a new type of MMO, constant balancing and even MORE skills that we do not know about will happen. So even if what you pick and want to do, is by the number crushers "the worst", it matters less, because you might find a build that your personal skill is very good at. Or you do like me and pick something completely useless, hehe. But thats how we learn?

I dont know how many times from alot of different managers from Zenimax who said, the choice whats best is ONLY up to you.

I might be wrong, but I know there are people who only are interested in the best possible setup. Of course, we want to get better.

But, in ESO, even "the best" skills and build, mght be wrong for a specific situation or a persons own skill and playstyle?

I look at skill this way. ALL of em are equaly good. they just do different things. I do keep en eye out for stuff that looks to good to be true, and keep away from that until I know more. An example of that is my very early decission not to be either a vampire or a warewolf, because I didnt know the good or the bad stuff.

SO, I pick after my playstyle and I do have a few skills, including 1 ultimate that I barely use. But this I learned by playing and adapting to whatever situation I was in

Very cool if you ask me. But for someone who wants to pick 100% correct, I dont think any one those will be happy cause even if they are "perfect", that can change with new gear, other skills, encounters that isnt so effective even if you are "perfect".

blah blah. Pick your skills as you feel is right for you. I also rely on advice from friends and guild members.

Took me quite a while before they convinced me to pick keen eye to see ores easier and hirelings which I saw as pretty much useless......they are one of my most important part in my provisioning and blacksmithing,

Indarqeen

AO is hardcore

RazzPitazz

However the issue is the tendancy for a "best class" to emerge. Any multiplayer game, especially ones with high asperation PvP, is all about play and counterplay. When there is a lack of counterplay (whether offensive or defensive) there is a balance issue. No set up should have the ability to defeat every other set up, this lacks counterplay (I would like to note here that strategy is the biggest part of counterplay).

Lodestar

hamon wrote: »

Katkon wrote: »

I've got to be honest and speak up. I honestly don't understand all the complaining about the game being too hard. It really isn't. If folks are getting stomped by small mobs in low level VR content they need to change their build. I really think it's that simple.

I'm an average MMO player - on a good day. And have no problems; am actually enjoying the challenge vs certain other MMOs.
-
I will say this: I *thought* I had a decent build when I started PvEing early on. Then I went to PvP and realized I was terrible, as was my build. I fine-tuned it a bit in PvP and now use the identical build in PvE - so that helped.

So, folks that are finding it too difficult simply need to play around with builds, reallocate skill/attribute points, ensure equipment is up-to-date, enchant, eat food/drink potions, add heavier armor if squishy etc.

Honestly - if I can figure it out, anyone can!

you make your point in a non hostile way props for that. but the problem is there shouldn't just be an "it" you need to figure out.. there should be multiple "its". i,m a templar just hit vr11. my "it" seems to be drop melee and heavy armour and stick to detro/resto staff.

i could use 1h/shield up till yesterday with jabs and vamp stuff. (not as effieciently as destro/resto) but more pleasing to me. back in sub60 i could get some fun out the bow as well.

so my options went from bow which became non viable. to either staffs or 1hand then finally to staffs or deaths all the time.

so i know what my "it" is , i just dont think its good to have all my choices narrowed to 1 due to a difficulty of content for normal open play. i dont mind dungeons and some group stuff being tricky, there i have no issues with being the healer and using my staff. but i really enjoyed having the frredom to play sub-optimal builds and still being albe to progress , i knew i was doing it slower because of that choice but i,m fine with that..

I think some folk have difficulty in understanding why folk wouldnt want to find out the most optimal build as their sole purpose. then play that for its effectiveness regardless which weapons skills they had to use.
hence they make statements like yours )tho mostly not as reasonable and polite) due to that lack of understanding

I agree. Completely. This is exactly my sentiment. And I often feel if people put as much effort into actually looking where the disparity is and how to address it, as they do judging what they don;t understand, this would be much better.

Even so, in this particular case, the devs incorporated what they and a minority feel is missing in an MMO. And put it under a banner of a game that was marketed to casual and ES players who do not typically go for that kind of thing. And that is another major reason, we have the disparity we have here.

Lovely

They did hard dungeons in WoW a while back. I loved them.

I saw a lot of people in my guild struggling for a full day to finish one (for the reward). Hour-long queues because tanks did not want to queue up and failing continuously, people dropping, so on and so forth.

The only ones who didn't have issues was us (the raiders) who had our premade groups to do things with. They were great fun and didn't seem hard at all.

Unfortunately, we were just 12. The guild had 200 more people who seemed to struggle. I noticed people don't like to struggle in games.

So... yeah, dungeons are easy. But there's other type of content that's harder.


Anyway, my point: there should be content both easy and hard. Some things should be easier (especially things that everyone *needs* to do, like questing). Some harder.

Guppet

Lovely wrote: »

They did hard dungeons in WoW a while back. I loved them.

I saw a lot of people in my guild struggling for a full day to finish one (for the reward). Hour-long queues because tanks did not want to queue up and failing continuously, people dropping, so on and so forth.

The only ones who didn't have issues was us (the raiders) who had our premade groups to do things with. They were great fun and didn't seem hard at all.

Unfortunately, we were just 12. The guild had 200 more people who seemed to struggle. I noticed people don't like to struggle in games.

So... yeah, dungeons are easy. But there's other type of content that's harder.


Anyway, my point: there should be content both easy and hard. Some things should be easier (especially things that everyone *needs* to do, like questing). Some harder.

Can't agree with this strongly enough. Required content should be much easier than optional content.

The game needs hard content for end game, but getting to end game shod not be at that difficulty level, or a large percentage of players won't even make it to end game. They will leave and take their cash with them.

Zubba

I will name "Eve Online".

Lodestar

Lovely wrote: »

They did hard dungeons in WoW a while back. I loved them.

I saw a lot of people in my guild struggling for a full day to finish one (for the reward). Hour-long queues because tanks did not want to queue up and failing continuously, people dropping, so on and so forth.

The only ones who didn't have issues was us (the raiders) who had our premade groups to do things with. They were great fun and didn't seem hard at all.

Unfortunately, we were just 12. The guild had 200 more people who seemed to struggle. I noticed people don't like to struggle in games.

So... yeah, dungeons are easy. But there's other type of content that's harder.


Anyway, my point: there should be content both easy and hard. Some things should be easier (especially things that everyone *needs* to do, like questing). Some harder.

I noticed doing the SWTOR equivalent of raids, that some people would just not feel like it too. Not so bad for some roles, for others it was a real concern, and could result in you cancelling your plans.

Jeremy

hamon wrote: »

just a word to the wise for all you forum rambo's who keep saying " this games not for you" or " sorry the games to hard go find another game" and other glib idiotic responses to folk percieving (justified or not) the game is getting too buggy/hard/non fun.

ive seen this pattern in almost every MMO thats failed

1/ all the "hardcores" say stuff like " go play another game then " " this games not for the likes of you"
2/ fast forward a month or 2 " my guilds dying" "where is everyone " ,, " is this game dead"
3/ finally " come back its fun now , they fixed stuff"

just a warning from the history of failed MMO's , name one "hardcore" MMO thats survived in the last 10 years?
conversely name some who pleased the hardcore for a few months then died due to alienating the "average" players

MMO's need to be balanced around the majority of its player base in terms of what they percieve to be a fair and fun experience. harcores can make it more difficult and challenging if they wish (but they dont, they just want to make it as easy as possible otherwise why would they ALWAYS play the most OP builds , classes)

anything else is a recipe for failure. you dont alienate the largest section of your customer base and survive long..

food for thought

The MMORPG market is already flooded with easy games. For Elder Scrolls to be successful long-term it has to distinguish itself from the competition. Otherwise it risks being like the other half dozen games before it that tried and failed to out-wow WoW as it's often called.

So just making the game easier does not always mean more successful. Sometimes it's more profitable to find a niche of players and cater exclusively to them over a long period of time. Especially if it wants to remain on a subscription-based model.

If you try to please everyone often-times you will end up pleasing no one.

Esha76

Guppet wrote: »

Lovely wrote: »

Anyway, my point: there should be content both easy and hard. Some things should be easier (especially things that everyone *needs* to do, like questing). Some harder.

Can't agree with this strongly enough. Required content should be much easier than optional content.

The game needs hard content for end game, but getting to end game shod not be at that difficulty level, or a large percentage of players won't even make it to end game. They will leave and take their cash with them.

Both these guys nailed it. My biggest complaint right now is the struggle to get through VR content. By that I mean getting 2-shotted by skellies or any other regular mob. Especially skeevers.. yes, killed by three skeevers... I feel I shouldn't be forced to group up to just level my characters. Things like BC/Grotto/Spindle (VR or regular) -yeah of course. End game stuff like Craglorn, absolutely- challenging hard stuff requiring groups and cooperation. I kinda thought that was the staple progress of any MMO.

I still don't know what has gone wrong. I just know that prior to 1.2 I had minimal to no complaint at all about the difficulty. Now, the regular VR NPCs are hitting way too hard. Sure, for dungeon content... But when I have to cross the land to pick up a flute so-and-so dropped while picking skooma-berries, I shouldn't have to look at a pack of regular equal-level NPCs and question whether or not I can take them. And I most certainly should not be getting killed by them in 2-3 seconds (in some cases). If the problem was my skill, I'd have never seen VR8 doing almost every single quest solo at this point.

I will most certainly take my subscription money elsewhere if the open world regular VR mobs stay the way they are now. Basic levelling should not be a struggle. Despite Jessica telling us they tested them and are working fine, I sincerely hope the testers are mistaken.