Be VERY carefull what you wish for

Kronz · May 2014

I agree - think of the excitement people have for a A+ MMO release. YOu can give first month free - lots of money from digital downloads and if your keep 30% of the people at that sub fee you make a game that will be awesome and make as much as a traditional successful mmo and possibly set a new market. I mean can anyone in their right minds justify 15 Dollars a month being anything but cheap for a month of entertainment? Even as a HS student I could afford 50 a month. I mean niche is a good word but in a world with billions of people 5mill niche players doesn't seem like that hard to find.

Cogo · May 2014

I am gonna be aggrogant with you all here who I probebly like the same game as. Everquest was the first MMORPG with the daggerfall world. Open world. No main story. You played.

Everquest is still to this date, the best raiding game ever made. Not even WoW beat Everquest when it comes to the compex, different, tactics, setup, teamwork and the coolest of all, OPEN loot. EQ invented DKP, something I always miss in every MMO I play since all other loot systems simply is not as fair as DKP (pure dkp)

Eve, is a massivly successful player driven game. The best ever where players does the game more or less. They have thrown in some raids called "fleets"?, but still the big part is pvp, economy and trading. No one comes close to that type of market.

ESO is a mix of several games. Wide world as EQ, player driven market as EVE, as little as possible in common with WoW!

ESO is the new breed/type of MMO. Never seen and tried before. Sure, the combat system was in conan, Pvp simular to Daoc and somewhat warhammer.

ESO took the good part, based it on Elder scrolls and here we are. Already something I call a fantastic game, with a huge potential. And a company who doesnt do the mistake SWTOR did and made a good game, with no future plans.

ESO have plans a year ahead, for tomrrow, for next week, ideas and features already released but not in detail and when. Like thieves guild and a justice system.

Everquest had an early version of this future planing with when they release the next expansion and how it goes togather with the game. Also the many classes and races in EQ where lovely, whernt they?

Even here ESO is new. There are classes, or are they? You start the story of you. Sure, you pick a race, fair enough, but whatever "class" you pick, you will become what you are good at, and you are doing and ego, what YOU find enjoyable.

I still only seen the 12 man raid in short youtube but that looks nice.
I am still more impressed with the outstanding story/quest and AI in INSTANCES. Hell, a group of mobs there can be smarter then some groups of players. Thats also something I havnt seen WORKING before.

And each day, and I might preach to the quire here, each day almost, I find something new. May it be a differnt quest. Item, some way t do tradeskill I did not know of and already NEW THINGS, which Zenimax puts in the game.

ESO is what a lot of old school EQ players been looking for, but also a whole new player base that would like these RPG games, but gets scared off WoW, EQ is to old, EVE is to specific and quite hard. Also the pvp part.

ESO, is, the new. I think when the game rolling like EQ/WoW did, that it works and they can patch a broken patch later the same day....then there are a whole new type of players out there who wants this. Maybe they played skyrim or something. I also think the age variation is muuuuch higher here. In a month, I wpuldnt be surprised if the medium age is 25-30. Even 40 years old are showing interest here.

I type to much about subjects I like and believe in.

Tell me that the goal of ESO is to be highest level and highest veteran,and play there. I am enjoying every level, every part of Tamriel. Not just high lvl, do unque tradeskil items and kill a demigod.

There are at least 50 other things to do, along with stuff we do not know yet.
There already are dialogs where the answer or question you choose, can have completely different effects, rewards, endings.

Few weeks ago, I stumbled into a dark elf small village, where argonians where slaves! I tried to find some quest to free them. I didnt. I did find a evil looking dark elf who wanted to buy my soul for 500 gold. As an orc I refused, even if I am still very curious what that was about!

This is ESO, the new type of MMO.

YstradClud · May 2014

Kronz wrote: »

I mean niche is a good word but in a world with billions of people 5mill niche players doesn't seem like that hard to find.

Just put a server in Asia and your sorted.

Reevster · May 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Hardcore players just need to understand one thing. A game must be enjoyable to the average player, most hardcore players are above average skill (not wanting to buff their ego too much, but its true), as they are above average the game has to be easy for them, or it would be too hard for the average gamer, it will therefore fail, as they will quit and you need their money to keep it afloat.

Any game which is balanced to be just right for a hardcore player wont survive these days. Those days are long gone, you may not want to accept it, but developrs no longer care who their audience is (like EQ wanted hardcore players), they just want money and that means they have to appeal to the widest audience, the average skill level player (note I did not say casual).

If you find the game easy, don't criticise others, recognise that you are actually good at it and don't try to make it some exclusive club which will die much quicker.

Same thing happened with EverQuest 1 , everything was going pretty good and then they came out with the Plains of Power expansion ( mainly to appease the hardcore/uber guilds at the time) well, then most the "average" players could not do the content . hell they couldn't even get past the trials that were required to enter the Plains, EQ1 died with that expansion.

Sure they tried to get back the players with this expansion or that one with adding stuff to help players do the hard content but it was too late the damage was done.

Its a tough job though to balance everything but if they can pull it off they could actually make this Game into a decent MMO, but there is still work to do for sure...

Kronz · May 2014

Reevster wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Hardcore players just need to understand one thing. A game must be enjoyable to the average player, most hardcore players are above average skill (not wanting to buff their ego too much, but its true), as they are above average the game has to be easy for them, or it would be too hard for the average gamer, it will therefore fail, as they will quit and you need their money to keep it afloat.

Any game which is balanced to be just right for a hardcore player wont survive these days. Those days are long gone, you may not want to accept it, but developrs no longer care who their audience is (like EQ wanted hardcore players), they just want money and that means they have to appeal to the widest audience, the average skill level player (note I did not say casual).

If you find the game easy, don't criticise others, recognise that you are actually good at it and don't try to make it some exclusive club which will die much quicker.

Same thing happened with EverQuest 1 , everything was going pretty good and then they came out with the Plains of Power expansion ( mainly to appease the hardcore/uber guilds at the time) well, then most the "average" players could not do the content . hell they couldn't even get past the trials that were required to enter the Plains, EQ1 died with that expansion.

Sure they tried to get back the players with this expansion or that one with adding stuff to help players do the hard content but it was too late the damage was done.

Its a tough job though to balance everything but if they can pull it off they could actually make this Game into a decent MMO, but there is still work to do for sure...

So you want a game that you can faceroll with no effort or team work to make it worth paying for? I don't understand this logic... Everything has a timeline otherwise I would still be playing DAOC...if only.

rotiferuk · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

VlVEC wrote: »

Izatar wrote: »

Apparently the console launch has been delayed 6 months!

Is that a bad thing? That's 6 more months this game will have to prepare and live on, and then consoles will get a refined release.

Who the HELL cares about ESO on a consol?!?! It cant possibly be even remotly the same game. How do you RP on a consol?General chat, community, forums, etc.
I fully understand why they release ESO as consol game cause there is a lot of money in consol players. Good for us if Zenimax gets more resources to keep developing this, do I dare to say it, possibly worthy successor to Everquest?

Consoles do not require text chat, they come with a headset and microphone for use on their own (Microsoft / Sony) speech channel. As for ESO console guilds, there are plenty of those advertising. Then there is Xbox Kinect and the PS camera. These offer the ability to control games through gesture and voice. How about being able to SAY which ability (for example) you wish to use rather than using a controller.

rotiferuk · May 2014

VlVEC wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

VlVEC wrote: »

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

The main problem they will have on consoles now is that there will be some big name releases on them at the same time ESO is expected to hit.

That won't stop it from succeeding.

What will stop it from succeeding is the fact that hardcore players (those who enjoy the current VR most) tend to have PC's. They are going to launch it to consoles, a market with a much higher percentage of casual players than PC's, if they don't change how VR works, it will be the slowest car crash in history.

Hardcore players? Console? lol.

Well not as hardcore as you.......................obviously.

Reevster · May 2014

Kronz wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Hardcore players just need to understand one thing. A game must be enjoyable to the average player, most hardcore players are above average skill (not wanting to buff their ego too much, but its true), as they are above average the game has to be easy for them, or it would be too hard for the average gamer, it will therefore fail, as they will quit and you need their money to keep it afloat.

Any game which is balanced to be just right for a hardcore player wont survive these days. Those days are long gone, you may not want to accept it, but developrs no longer care who their audience is (like EQ wanted hardcore players), they just want money and that means they have to appeal to the widest audience, the average skill level player (note I did not say casual).

If you find the game easy, don't criticise others, recognise that you are actually good at it and don't try to make it some exclusive club which will die much quicker.

Same thing happened with EverQuest 1 , everything was going pretty good and then they came out with the Plains of Power expansion ( mainly to appease the hardcore/uber guilds at the time) well, then most the "average" players could not do the content . hell they couldn't even get past the trials that were required to enter the Plains, EQ1 died with that expansion.

Sure they tried to get back the players with this expansion or that one with adding stuff to help players do the hard content but it was too late the damage was done.

Its a tough job though to balance everything but if they can pull it off they could actually make this Game into a decent MMO, but there is still work to do for sure...

So you want a game that you can faceroll with no effort or team work to make it worth paying for? I don't understand this logic... Everything has a timeline otherwise I would still be playing DAOC...if only.

I guess that was the problem, they didn't understand the "logic" either , if you alienate 50 percent or more of your player base then your going pay for it in loss subs.

No one wanted to "Faceroll" anything ,(There was very little "facerolling" in Everquest 1, we had to group etc) just wanted be able to do some of the new content which was mostly out of reach unless your were a hardcore raider.

Plus we all paid like 40 bucks for the expansion which alot of us couldn't access....that was another blunder of SOE/Verent or who ever was in charge at the time.

Kronz · May 2014

Reevster wrote: »

Kronz wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Hardcore players just need to understand one thing. A game must be enjoyable to the average player, most hardcore players are above average skill (not wanting to buff their ego too much, but its true), as they are above average the game has to be easy for them, or it would be too hard for the average gamer, it will therefore fail, as they will quit and you need their money to keep it afloat.

Any game which is balanced to be just right for a hardcore player wont survive these days. Those days are long gone, you may not want to accept it, but developrs no longer care who their audience is (like EQ wanted hardcore players), they just want money and that means they have to appeal to the widest audience, the average skill level player (note I did not say casual).

If you find the game easy, don't criticise others, recognise that you are actually good at it and don't try to make it some exclusive club which will die much quicker.

Same thing happened with EverQuest 1 , everything was going pretty good and then they came out with the Plains of Power expansion ( mainly to appease the hardcore/uber guilds at the time) well, then most the "average" players could not do the content . hell they couldn't even get past the trials that were required to enter the Plains, EQ1 died with that expansion.

Sure they tried to get back the players with this expansion or that one with adding stuff to help players do the hard content but it was too late the damage was done.

Its a tough job though to balance everything but if they can pull it off they could actually make this Game into a decent MMO, but there is still work to do for sure...

So you want a game that you can faceroll with no effort or team work to make it worth paying for? I don't understand this logic... Everything has a timeline otherwise I would still be playing DAOC...if only.

I guess that was the problem, they didn't understand the "logic" either , if you alienate 50 percent or more of your player base then your going pay for it in loss subs.

No one wanted to "Faceroll" anything ,(There was very little "facerolling" in Everquest 1, we had to group etc) just wanted be able to do some of the new content which was mostly out of reach unless your were a hardcore raider.

I agree I remember making 5 or 6 characters with the intent of finding one that could 1v1 a lvl 7 lion at lvl 7 lol it was a blast.

Gilandred · May 2014

There is no such thing as the "average" player. By definition, it's just a blended mish-mash of various people with differing play-styles. For every aspect of a game that I find fun, there is someone else who doesn't, and yet we both would be lumped into the "average player" category. You cannot target a game toward this mythological average player, nor can you alienate one, because they don't really exist.

Using a true ESO example, let's say half the players would prefer an AH, and half don't. The path has been chosen already. If a certain percentage of players really really really need an AH for a game to be fun, then yes, they can be told that "this game is not for them." There's nothing mean or bad about that. Sometimes it's just best to state the facts so they can move on.

The reason a lot of MMOs fail (and that in itself is debatable) is because everyone's trying to make a carbon copy of the 800 pound gorilla with prettier graphics and maybe a gimmick or two thrown in. It's not because your alienating an average player. There are just some features that some people can't live with. And that, is ok.

Guppet · May 2014

Gilandred wrote: »

There is no such thing as the "average" player. By definition, it's just a blended mish-mash of various people with differing play-styles. For every aspect of a game that I find fun, there is someone else who doesn't, and yet we both would be lumped into the "average player" category. You cannot target a game toward this mythological average player, nor can you alienate one, because they don't really exist.

Using a true ESO example, let's say half the players would prefer an AH, and half don't. The path has been chosen already. If a certain percentage of players really really really need an AH for a game to be fun, then yes, they can be told that "this game is not for them." There's nothing mean or bad about that. Sometimes it's just best to state the facts so they can move on.

The reason a lot of MMOs fail (and that in itself is debatable) is because everyone's trying to make a carbon copy of the 800 pound gorilla with prettier graphics and maybe a gimmick or two thrown in. It's not because your alienating an average player. There are just some features that some people can't live with. And that, is ok.

Skill levels are comparable, therefore you can calculate an average skill level.

Aiming for the average skill level is certainly possible.

This game is currently aimed at above average skill level and they wonder why they are loosing subs left and right.

Svann · May 2014

EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.

Guppet · May 2014

adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »

EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.

Going strong?

Please define what that means, as I'm quite sure what you term going strong, would not be an acceptable level of success, for the shareholders of any new game.

BrassRazoo · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

VlVEC wrote: »

Izatar wrote: »

Apparently the console launch has been delayed 6 months!

Is that a bad thing? That's 6 more months this game will have to prepare and live on, and then consoles will get a refined release.

Who the HELL cares about ESO on a consol?!?! It cant possibly be even remotly the same game. How do you RP on a consol?General chat, community, forums, etc.
I fully understand why they release ESO as consol game cause there is a lot of money in consol players. Good for us if Zenimax gets more resources to keep developing this, do I dare to say it, possibly worthy successor to Everquest?

Zennimax and Console gamers care.
Why would it not be the same apart from the controls?
I currently use a 360 controller now.
General Chat? You can plug a USB Keyboard into Xbox One and PS4.
Community and Forums will be here, and it's a lot easier to party up and chat on a Console than PC. No TS or Vent etc. needed.

Vlaxitov · May 2014

What just happened in this game wasn't even a casual/hardcore issue. It was a mistake, and people who weren't subject to that mistake either defended it out if ignorance or else just knowingly enjoyed watching people suffer as they trolled the forums.

AngryNord · May 2014

schip wrote: »

i honestly don't know why they nerf bosses, why can't the trash mobs be easy and the bosses hard?

Hard =! practically impossible

Svann · May 2014

Guppet wrote: »

adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »

EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.

Going strong?

Please define what that means, as I'm quite sure what you term going strong, would not be an acceptable level of success, for the shareholders of any new game.

Going strong in an mmo means successful enough to make enough money that it makes financial sense to keep putting out new content.

ExiledKhallisi · May 2014

The problem with your type....is you want your cake and eat it to. There's TONS of content in this game for even the most casual player. There's also content now for high end elite players who live in moms basement and neglect their family. You will never be happy because you want everything now.

You guys whined so much they reverted the difficulty from the patch.

What do you want? To be at the top? Earn it.

Guppet · May 2014

adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »

EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.

Going strong?

Please define what that means, as I'm quite sure what you term going strong, would not be an acceptable level of success, for the shareholders of any new game.

Going strong in an mmo means successful enough to make enough money that it makes financial sense to keep putting out new content.

I'm guessing you are not aware of just how bad Sonys finances are right now. They need a paddle.

Vlaxitov · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

MMO survive based on social interaction. Difficult content requires players to group and interact to progress. These games are about people.

Did diablo 2 survive for over a decade because it was about people or was it because it offered a deep fulfilling social experience?

No, what you're saying is total nonsense. Games like this that offer a deep chain of progression last, games with weak and or shallow progression don't.

Vecchine · May 2014

@op

Eve

flies away

Gilandred · May 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Skill levels are comparable, therefore you can calculate an average skill level.

Aiming for the average skill level is certainly possible.

This game is currently aimed at above average skill level and they wonder why they are loosing subs left and right.

Even if you could measure "average skill level" and targeted gameplay accordingly, you would have a good chunk of the population complain how it is now "too easy." Personally, I find the current level of difficulty to be fine. I don't know if they are gaining or losing subs, and neither do you.

Guppet · May 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

What do you want? To be at the top? Earn it.

I'm confused, that sounds awfully like your talking about a career. ESO is a game, a thing people do to unwind after a day spent in an actual career.

If you have no career, I can understand why you would want a sense of validation from a game. Many get that validation in the real world.

twev · May 2014

Kemono wrote: »

jimdove wrote: »

EVE online has survived and is flourishing. And it is about the most hardcore game, not just mmo, that one can play.

Best joke i hear tooday
Thanks a lot, i needed a good laugh

But seriously -there are two types of MMO -big AAA titles that target at masses (so mostly casuals) and small niche MMOs - and no they are mostly hardcore and dont care at all about "wide market"

EVE is one of niche MMO
ESO is NOT a niche MMO -and it need a WIDE population or its going to flop.
If anything, curent situation in ESO remainds me oh, so very much about first months of Defiance -exact same devs attitude, worst support ever, dead chat in game, bugs on bugs inside bugs and with bugs, then patched with even more bugs.

Are you familiar with what kind of fuss Defiance was?
Are you familiar what happend to Defiance later?
And where it is now? (a YEAR later)

btw i just cant wait to my niche MMO to be released, then im out
This gonna be holidays for SW:G fans
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/therepopulation/the-repopulation-a-sandbox-mmorpg

Man, I loved DEFI, and I'd still be playing it, if they hadn't so completely borked the whole concept from top to bottom. They had a great idea, a beautiful world, some terrific people, and then they trashed the whole thing with bozos in charge.

::le sigh::

nightside187b16_ESO · May 2014

How to Escape a Sinking Ship

The Basics: Before Setting Sail

1. Understand the mechanics of a sinking ship. Water usually enters the lowest point of a ship first, the bilge area.

2. As more and more water enters the ship, it will start to heel significantly. From this point on, sinking will occur quickly. Abandon ship.

If Sinking is Imminent

1. Think about your sense of etiquette. What will you do if push comes to shove?

2. If you’re in charge of the sinking ship learn how to send a Mayday. Read “How to call Mayday from a marine vessel.

3. Stay calm and don’t panic.

4. If you see someone with fear, yell at them.

5. While still on deck, watch for catapulting objects coming your way. Large items can kill you.

Abandoning Ship

6. Find a lifeboat. The best scenario is to enter a lifeboat without getting wet.

7. If jumping off the ship, always look first.

8. If you survive, be ready for the reality that others may have perished. Seek counseling.

Evergnar · May 2014

hamon wrote: »

MMO's need to be balanced around the majority of its player base in terms of what they percieve to be a fair and fun experience.

^This. I really hope ESO finds that balance. Obviously they seem to struggling with it but in the mean time they should really start focusing on the social interaction aspects of the game.

Catflinger · May 2014

Clunan wrote: »

BUT I want you to respectively take back your comment on how EVE is a bad example of a hardcore mmo.

Um, lol? I will not take anything back. I disagreed with your assertion that it is flourishing, nothing more.

Vlaxitov · May 2014

In EVE you earn accomplishments in real time waiting.

Therium104 · May 2014

This game will not last a few more months if they listen to a mass of self serving bads on the forums. What is killing these games is who the developers are listening to......

Arreyanne · May 2014

Kronz wrote: »

There needs to be a game that is hardcore for hardcore players and just have a higher sub feed. I would pay 50 a month np for a soild game that challenged me and kept me engrossed. I am also sure many other gamers would too. HardCore gamers will drop (as I have) 2 grand or even more on a system to play a new game they are excited for. Someone needs to figure this out. Many gamers that are perciveved as elitist or w/e actually have and are willing to spend a lot of money on the product they want. People act like 15 bucks is a lot of money for a month of entertainment. Its a good taco bell meal I mean come on.

The engrossed part is the entire problem for me the game has no "OMG THAT WAS AWESOME" moments