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Be VERY carefull what you wish for
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ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »What do you want? To be at the top? Earn it.
I'm confused, that sounds awfully like your talking about a career. ESO is a game, a thing people do to unwind after a day spent in an actual career.
If you have no career, I can understand why you would want a sense of validation from a game. Many get that validation in the real world.
Hurd dur flurd burger....
You can "unwind" in the casual areas of the game. You have your place. The hardcore have theirs. You want your cake and eat it to.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War1 -
Dusty5✭✭✭Terms like fair and balanced make me want to puke when it comes to MMO's.I am an O.G. (old gamer) back in the bad old days of paper and dice there a few things all players understood crossed all gaming titles. 1. Keep your players interested.2nd As a game master you understood people are unpredictable and will adapt to the problem at hand and do everything they can to win. 3.Respect the players effort..let them work for weeks to gain an item or ability then screw them over by cutting damage or effects they will quit and leave.4 Easy pitch or iwin buttons will kill off your group just as fast as screwing them over. To me it seems these basic truths somehow have gotten lost or totally ignored in this computer age. TO sum it all up for ZO nerfing a game is not devlopment its both screwing over those who made achivements and putting the adult gamer to sleep at the same time.
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seaef✭✭✭✭✭Well, it's the same scenario over and over with MMOs.
You've got two types of players: short-term game hoppers and your player base. Your player base will stay regardless of the state of the game as long as you stop catering to the whiners and constantly change things. These people are adaptable and play the game for story, world ambiance, community, etc. They also are more likely to provide constructive feedback to developers, something a hopper will never do.
The game hoppers are the vocal minority. They constantly whine and threaten developers into changing things. However, these people want a game catered exactly to their needs and will never be satisfied. They will leave the game as soon as their boredom factor kicks in, regardless of how much the developers try to appease them. The ROI of listening to these morons is zero. These people will tell you the game will die if they leave, but we all know that they only represent a small portion of the people playing.
Any game developer who closely monitors these two groups and focuses on the long-term crowd gets my vote. If they make it clear to the game hoppers that their whining will be ignored, they get my loyalty. If they grow some balls and say, "[snip] you, we are not changing anything for you and you are not welcome here anymore." then I'll send them a big fat check in support. I don't mean ban them, just ignore them because they are going to leave regardless of what the developer does. A game hopper is one thing: predicable.
The miss with these developers is that while they focus on making the game hoppers happy, the potential long-term players leave out of frustration, and when the hoppers leave (and they will) the game dies.
Any developer who focuses on identifying the long-term player base and ignores the whiners will be successful. I really don't know why this is so difficult to understand. Other successful companies have been doing it for decades.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_LeroyW on 24 May 2014 16:19"The Illuminati are very achievement focused. It's like Xbox - only everything is hardcore."
- Kirsten Geary6 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭It IS an easy experience... as long as you have a decent build you can solo everything including most world bosses even the ones you can`t CC.... the ones you can CC are a joke they can be soloed with 1 cc + light attacks....
The problem is most people don`t know how to build a character... ESO has no class system so people are free to make their own "class" by mixing abilities. Most just use abilities that don`t work well together or forget to slot something defensive or never dodge the red circles....
If they make it so you are able to go in a Veteran area with bad gear and a bad build and kill everything then they will have another problem: people will get bored. Fast. For any player that now has no or little problem questing in VR areas it would be like using cheats, he would never be in any danger and most likely get really bored...
Skyrim was not hard as you had no help, here you can do what people should do in MMO`s do beat difficult content aka GROUP.
I agree that there are some balance issue but please be careful when balancing... Nightblades are already the best single target DPS and can solo VR dungeons - the only remaining class that is able to do it now that DK was nerfed. More buffs for them will make them the new DK....
The only Nightblades having problems are the ones that want to play in a specific way, usually like a "rogue" or a "pure archer - but archers can kite and not take much damage so it still works, its just skill dependent", but the caster Nightblade with infinite resources is very good right now, so are most builds with invisibility...
In conclusion(TLDR): every class can have an easy time in Veteran areas with the right build. That build may not be what that player wants to play, but it is what it is. Catering to the people who claim they die all the time will do a lot of harm as it would make it very easy for the average or above average gamer and nobody wants a game where you just roll through content spamming one skill never having to think or adapt.
And please stop buffing NB`s, they solo Veteran Dungeons(you can find videos on youtube), they have the highest single target DPS now and a very good burst... just make a guide to show them how to play and let them learn but be careful about new buffs.3 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the OP. This is am online story driven game set in a very specific universe that has a large and dedicated following. Elder Scrolls games are not shooters. A person who buys Oblivion expecting Halo will be disappointed. Likewise anyone expecting ESO to be WoW or some such won't be happy here either. When this concept began to gather steam there were some who wanted co-op Skyrim instead of an MMORPG. This is not that game. It was never intended to be and never will be. If I had to compare it to something it would be LOTRO.
This brings us to Harmon's cogent statements. This game was built to engage Old and new ES fans and hopefully to be a vehicle to attract many more in the future. It is a game that should appeal and be playable by all of them. It was stressed by ZOS during the design phase that the game would be approachable by all and would be built for both group and solo players. Anyone can play and with a modicum of effort and a short learning curve be able to enjoy the game's content and STORY. Take away the low hanging game fruit that allows the newbie, the disabled, the aged, or the casual player to fully complete and enjoy playing ESO and you remove the salaries for devs, mods, servers, etc. The game shrinks with the collapsing player base. In the end all that would be left is a burned out cinder of an F2P populated by a handful of self proclaimed uber gamers who sit around bemoaning the lack of new content and fellow players. I do not think that such a suicidal business model would sit well with Zenimax's shareholders. For us ES fans it would represent the final victory of the daedra. Even at this early date these forums read like something concocted by Sheogorath.
You are only viewing it from one side...
Removing any difficulty would also cut down the population as the people who are doing fine now(and there are a lot of them) would get bored...
What they could do is make a difficulty slider, the higher the difficulty the more gold/loot the NPC`s drop. XP should stay the same so you don`t over level the content... That might work as long as we don`t get people complaining that they want the same loot for all the difficulty levels.1 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭Well said OP. It is sad that genuine views and concerns are being swept aside. All being well the devs are taking it on board even if the forum warriors aren't.
These individuals rant on so many boards they can not have their dream of an elite hardcore game, and press this agenda. Then come here calling those who bought the game as it was marketed to them and told was being made for them by developers and accuse them of being self entitled. The irony is not lost on me, and I don't think I am the only one.
I really think the venomous responses are fuelled by xenophobic fear is because history has shown games change with input. And they may find themselves without.2 -
Svann✭✭✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.
Going strong?
Please define what that means, as I'm quite sure what you term going strong, would not be an acceptable level of success, for the shareholders of any new game.
Going strong in an mmo means successful enough to make enough money that it makes financial sense to keep putting out new content.
I'm guessing you are not aware of just how bad Sonys finances are right now. They need a paddle.
Everquest is still making plenty of money. They have been going for 14 years and have put out 20 expansions. I think that is more than any other mmo. I do like TESO better, but that doesnt mean that everquest was a failure. Far from it.Edited by Svann on 24 May 2014 15:242 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well said OP. It is sad that genuine views and concerns are being swept aside. All being well the devs are taking it on board even if the forum warriors aren't.
These individuals rant on so many boards they can not have their dream of an elite hardcore game, and press this agenda. Then come here calling those who bought the game as it was marketed to them and told was being made for them by developers and accuse them of being self entitled. The irony is not lost on me, and I don't think I am the only one.
I really think the venomous responses are fuelled by xenophobic fear is because history has shown games change with input. And they may find themselves without.
I agree.
This game was sold over the play the way you want idea, not some hardcore idea.
Could focus on this now? Sure , but they really need to change their marketing campaign because they called tons of the wrong kind of gamers here.
Play the way you want could be understood as hardcore also , but not only.
Also , seems rather silly to use the ES franchise to make a hardcore MMO, this franchise is not know for being hardcore at all among its fans."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor5 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭So you want a game that you can faceroll with no effort or team work to make it worth paying for? I don't understand this logic... Everything has a timeline otherwise I would still be playing DAOC...if only.
Did he say that? Or were you using hyperbole comments to try discredit him instead of acknowledging he had a point?Edited by Lodestar on 24 May 2014 15:321 -
sunluvr2ub14_ESOSoul ShrivenI think it would be cool to have the AI system adjust difficulty of the bosses for a player or group of players based on "reputation" they have among the bosses based on data for that player/s. Maybe similar to the reputation the player gets with friendly NPC's based on our decisions on quests.
At least if the dungeons or veteran content could adjust as the groups go thru it based on data of how fast they are killing things to make it challenging for them I would think the hardcore guilds would enjoy it without making it impossible for the average player/s.
Even add in what level of difficulty the AI had to use to be a perceived match for the fight and posted on leader boards for bragging rights, cause that is really the carrot on the stick for the hardcore raiders that complain things are too easy, well and awesome loots.
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Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »What do you want? To be at the top? Earn it.
I'm confused, that sounds awfully like your talking about a career. ESO is a game, a thing people do to unwind after a day spent in an actual career.
If you have no career, I can understand why you would want a sense of validation from a game. Many get that validation in the real world.
Hurd dur flurd burger....
You can "unwind" in the casual areas of the game. You have your place. The hardcore have theirs. You want your cake and eat it to.
The problem is the hardcore have two thirds of the leveling content, due to VR and Craglorn. They should just have Craglorn.
I totally agree that both crowds can be serviced. It's just that one crowd is getting far more aimed at them right now.2 -
seaef✭✭✭✭✭So I agree, BUT I want you to respectively take back your comment on how EVE is a bad example of a hardcore mmo.
I understand the EVE players are a bit self-absorbed and don't really see the world around them, but seriously?
I'll give EVE props for one thing: They've created a self-imposed prison for caustic players the rest of the MMO community would rather not have in their game. For that reason alone, EVE should be given an award.
"The Illuminati are very achievement focused. It's like Xbox - only everything is hardcore."
- Kirsten Geary6 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aye, I always thought the whole point of the game was to appeal to the massive Elder Scrolls fanbase who always wanted to be able to play with their friends. Elder Scrolls games are not difficult or challenging.
Now I don't mind a bit of difficulty, but I can't help feeling that making this the new hardcore MMO is a big blunder, in marketing terms.
They *can* be challenging.
However, just because I roll with the difficulty slider on "Gods' middle finger" with no crafting/spellmaking/enchanting/whatnot doesnt mean that guy will.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭EVE online has survived and is flourishing. And it is about the most hardcore game, not just mmo, that one can play.
EVE doesnt count. Look at its age.
Look at any game released in the past 12 years.
Edit, its not even the same genre. Its more MMOFPS than MMORPG.Edited by Sakiri on 24 May 2014 15:450 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »What do you want? To be at the top? Earn it.
I'm confused, that sounds awfully like your talking about a career. ESO is a game, a thing people do to unwind after a day spent in an actual career.
If you have no career, I can understand why you would want a sense of validation from a game. Many get that validation in the real world.
Hurd dur flurd burger....
You can "unwind" in the casual areas of the game. You have your place. The hardcore have theirs. You want your cake and eat it to.
The problem is the hardcore have two thirds of the leveling content, due to VR and Craglorn. They should just have Craglorn.
I totally agree that both crowds can be serviced. It's just that one crowd is getting far more aimed at them right now.
Not that craglorn will ever be difficult for a very long time , just join a zerg and destroy everything in your path , woot!
Oh and the loot , sweet lord , i never got so many purples so fast.Edited by Nox_Aeterna on 24 May 2014 15:49"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor2 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Who the HELL cares about ESO on a consol?!?! It cant possibly be even remotly the same game. How do you RP on a consol?General chat, community, forums, etc.
I fully understand why they release ESO as consol game cause there is a lot of money in consol players. Good for us if Zenimax gets more resources to keep developing this, do I dare to say it, possibly worthy successor to Everquest?
Consoles do not require text chat, they come with a headset and microphone for use on their own (Microsoft / Sony) speech channel. As for ESO console guilds, there are plenty of those advertising. Then there is Xbox Kinect and the PS camera. These offer the ability to control games through gesture and voice. How about being able to SAY which ability (for example) you wish to use rather than using a controller.
That sounds like something that would require me to prohibit playing while Im home, the voice control.
Incredibly annoying.0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.
Going strong?
Please define what that means, as I'm quite sure what you term going strong, would not be an acceptable level of success, for the shareholders of any new game.
Going strong in an mmo means successful enough to make enough money that it makes financial sense to keep putting out new content.
I'm guessing you are not aware of just how bad Sonys finances are right now. They need a paddle.
Everquest is still making plenty of money. They have been going for 14 years and have put out 20 expansions. I think that is more than any other mmo. I do like TESO better, but that doesnt mean that everquest was a failure. Far from it.
Everquest used to be sucessful. The minuscule profit it makes now, if it makes any at all, would not be considered a success by modern financiers. Investors would not be happy with that return in the slightest.
It's only still running as Sony fund it themselves, it's keeping the brand alive till EQ next.
Problem for Sony is that they are not going to be able to do that for much longer, as the Japanese parent company is making huge losses.0 -
I love the elitist PC gamers with the offhand hardcore gamers on console quips. Didnt COD just have a tournament for idk a million bucks? I'd say those are hardcore gamers on a console. PC, console, in the end were all fans of elder scrolls, those not blessed with a wealthy budget for gaming PCs, or those who dont prefer to hunch over a keyboard all day have an option to buy a machine dedicated solely to gaming to enjoy their escape from reality, why does that make them any less of a gamer than you? Cuz you got a quintuplet core processor with 90 gigantabytes of Ram? In the end these guys make these games cuz they love them, the ideas spawn from there own desire to build the best game they can imagine playing, nothings perfect. You'll.never satisfy everyone, all they can do is try and we can support em or not based off our experiences. true fans dont give up on a game in a month, hardcore gamers or not, if ur a fan of gaming or elder scrolls condemning this game in its stages of infancy isn't too smart.3 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Therium104 wrote: »just a word to the wise for all you forum rambo's who keep saying " this games not for you" or " sorry the games to hard go find another game" and other glib idiotic responses to folk percieving (justified or not) the game is getting too buggy/hard/non fun.
ive seen this pattern in almost every MMO thats failed
1/ all the "hardcores" say stuff like " go play another game then " " this games not for the likes of you"
2/ fast forward a month or 2 " my guilds dying" "where is everyone " ,, " is this game dead"
3/ finally " come back its fun now , they fixed stuff"
just a warning from the history of failed MMO's , name one "hardcore" MMO thats survived in the last 10 years?
conversely name some who pleased the hardcore for a few months then died due to alienating the "average" players
MMO's need to be balanced around the majority of its player base in terms of what they percieve to be a fair and fun experience. harcores can make it more difficult and challenging if they wish (but they dont, they just want to make it as easy as possible otherwise why would they ALWAYS play the most OP builds , classes)
anything else is a recipe for failure. you dont alienate the largest section of your customer base and survive long..
food for thought
MMO survive based on social interaction. Difficult content requires players to group and interact to progress. These games are about people.
Your post is absurd. Whining because you want to steamroll everything is bad for the game. I cannot solo five mobs!!! I got picked on in gym class!!!
Btw. Those games die because they listen to whiners on the forums who demand balance changes based on garbage. So you are right in a way. They need to not listen to people like you.
This game will not survive unless players have a reason to socially interact in PvE content. The first step was raising the difficulty. Due to bads, whiners, low tier garbage players the game took another step back.
Man up.
You know, the biggest sub loss in wow's history happened after a blog post titled "wow, dungeons are hard!" In fact, it tanked enough that the hauled ass to rectify the problem, and it never recovered.
The man in charge now works on LoL.1 -
EVE online has survived and is flourishing. And it is about the most hardcore game, not just mmo, that one can play.
Your comparison with EVE is not fair.
To start, EVE is not a game, but a career.
Not all MMO crowd can pass the "learning curve test" out there, in fact, only a few, even among the ones that, actually, play EVE have the "diploma".
Although, CCP is being charitable enough with new folks and turning things easier each day and with each new expansion.
Don't take me wrong, I don't play my 3 accounts of EVE (yeah, most of the players there have multiple accounts) because I was stressing more than having fun but it was worst back in 2005 when I started playing it, believe me.
Do you know what a sandbox is?
Unfortunately, I can't go back to EVE... (TBH, I can, but my cardiologist and my family tell me the contrary)
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Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »The problem with your type....is you want your cake and eat it to. There's TONS of content in this game for even the most casual player. There's also content now for high end elite players who live in moms basement and neglect their family. You will never be happy because you want everything now.
You guys whined so much they reverted the difficulty from the patch.
What do you want? To be at the top? Earn it.
That "difficulty" wasnt intentional.
And what Im gathering the OP is about is the attacking of anyone that says the main quest, locking out over half of the game, is too hard for some.1 -
On top of it, realistically, I bet the amount of people who bought the game on PC when the console release got pushed back was pretty staggering so those console players are now ur mmo peers for at least the next 6 months and are essentially what's going to determine which direction the game can go.1
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Valerien✭✭✭Very true.
Often as not it is the same people saying L2P, that are playing the fotm uber class and will be the first to complain when their bash attack is nerfed and they can't use one attack to win every fight.
For me an MMO should be as easy or difficult as I choose to make it. That is there should be alternative methods of game play and options that simply face rolling a fight till I know where I have to stand and which combination of skills I need to use just to get through. Knowing those things should result in a flawless victory. But if that isn't my way of doing things there should be alternate methods such as recruiting hirelings to aid me.
One section that ESO got right was Shadowfen where by doing side quests you could make elements of the main quest easier or the final push in cold harbour, or collecting shards of a broken axe etc. Now if I want to punish myself I can do it without help but the game shouldn't be set up so its a punishing almost impossible experience as the only method of play.2 -
Katkon✭✭✭I've got to be honest and speak up. I honestly don't understand all the complaining about the game being too hard. It really isn't. If folks are getting stomped by small mobs in low level VR content they need to change their build. I really think it's that simple.
I'm an average MMO player - on a good day. And have no problems; am actually enjoying the challenge vs certain other MMOs.
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I will say this: I *thought* I had a decent build when I started PvEing early on. Then I went to PvP and realized I was terrible, as was my build. I fine-tuned it a bit in PvP and now use the identical build in PvE - so that helped.
So, folks that are finding it too difficult simply need to play around with builds, reallocate skill/attribute points, ensure equipment is up-to-date, enchant, eat food/drink potions, add heavier armor if squishy etc.
Honestly - if I can figure it out, anyone can!6 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭Therium104 wrote: »just a word to the wise for all you forum rambo's who keep saying " this games not for you" or " sorry the games to hard go find another game" and other glib idiotic responses to folk percieving (justified or not) the game is getting too buggy/hard/non fun.
ive seen this pattern in almost every MMO thats failed
1/ all the "hardcores" say stuff like " go play another game then " " this games not for the likes of you"
2/ fast forward a month or 2 " my guilds dying" "where is everyone " ,, " is this game dead"
3/ finally " come back its fun now , they fixed stuff"
just a warning from the history of failed MMO's , name one "hardcore" MMO thats survived in the last 10 years?
conversely name some who pleased the hardcore for a few months then died due to alienating the "average" players
MMO's need to be balanced around the majority of its player base in terms of what they percieve to be a fair and fun experience. harcores can make it more difficult and challenging if they wish (but they dont, they just want to make it as easy as possible otherwise why would they ALWAYS play the most OP builds , classes)
anything else is a recipe for failure. you dont alienate the largest section of your customer base and survive long..
food for thought
MMO survive based on social interaction. Difficult content requires players to group and interact to progress. These games are about people.
Your post is absurd. Whining because you want to steamroll everything is bad for the game. I cannot solo five mobs!!! I got picked on in gym class!!!
Btw. Those games die because they listen to whiners on the forums who demand balance changes based on garbage. So you are right in a way. They need to not listen to people like you.
This game will not survive unless players have a reason to socially interact in PvE content. The first step was raising the difficulty. Due to bads, whiners, low tier garbage players the game took another step back.
Man up.
You know, the biggest sub loss in wow's history happened after a blog post titled "wow, dungeons are hard!" In fact, it tanked enough that the hauled ass to rectify the problem, and it never recovered.
The man in charge now works on LoL.
That damn Ghostcrawler fellow....
Actually the biggest sub loss was when MOP came out. and prior to that when China did that huge video game ban and fked over the farmers.
>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War0 -
Svann✭✭✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.
Going strong?
Please define what that means, as I'm quite sure what you term going strong, would not be an acceptable level of success, for the shareholders of any new game.
Going strong in an mmo means successful enough to make enough money that it makes financial sense to keep putting out new content.
I'm guessing you are not aware of just how bad Sonys finances are right now. They need a paddle.
Everquest is still making plenty of money. They have been going for 14 years and have put out 20 expansions. I think that is more than any other mmo. I do like TESO better, but that doesnt mean that everquest was a failure. Far from it.
Everquest used to be sucessful. The minuscule profit it makes now, if it makes any at all, .
Like I said, the measure of success of an mmo is whether it is making enough money to make new expansions. Thats no small amount.
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PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
This.What just happened in this game wasn't even a casual/hardcore issue. It was a mistake, and people who weren't subject to that mistake either defended it out if ignorance or else just knowingly enjoyed watching people suffer as they trolled the forums.
I do not believe that any of these ''oh me so HC'' players that say they enjoined this buggy VR difficulty. If you went into VR 8+ and played a little bit you would have realized that it is broken. Even if you can make it a slow slog with some builds it is certainly not fun. You must find a cheap way of slowly chipping away at mobs with over inflated HP just boring. If they were a little more critical they would have realized that most builds used successfully before couldn't do anything.
The ones that say that you should group since it is an MMO are even more amusing . Group with who? The 20 other people in a VR9 zone that try to do other things than you. There is a reason that forced group MMO lost the battle a long time ago.Most people do not want to group at all times and the people that like to always group are not enough to make a MMO successfulESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)3 -
VlVEC✭✭✭
Considering it's coming out on the PS4/Xbox One is six months you're wrong.Therium104 wrote: »This game will not last a few more months if they listen to a mass of self serving bads on the forums. What is killing these games is who the developers are listening to......The beginning of the words is ALMSIVI. I give you this as Vivec.
Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vivec.
ヽ༼ຈ༽ل͜༼ຈ༽ﾉ1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »EQ1 is still going strong after 14 years. While it is easier now than at start, that does not alter the fact that it was difficult at the start and for a LONG time afterward and it did survive.
Going strong?
Please define what that means, as I'm quite sure what you term going strong, would not be an acceptable level of success, for the shareholders of any new game.
Going strong in an mmo means successful enough to make enough money that it makes financial sense to keep putting out new content.
I'm guessing you are not aware of just how bad Sonys finances are right now. They need a paddle.
Everquest is still making plenty of money. They have been going for 14 years and have put out 20 expansions. I think that is more than any other mmo. I do like TESO better, but that doesnt mean that everquest was a failure. Far from it.
Everquest used to be sucessful. The minuscule profit it makes now, if it makes any at all, .
Like I said, the measure of success of an mmo is whether it is making enough money to make new expansions. Thats no small amount.
That was my point. I do not believe it makes any profit at all anymore, I think it's bring kept afloat by SOE, to keep the franchise alive.
Do you actually believe it makes enough money, that a new developer would say I will be happy if we make what EQ1 does now?0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Therium104 wrote: »just a word to the wise for all you forum rambo's who keep saying " this games not for you" or " sorry the games to hard go find another game" and other glib idiotic responses to folk percieving (justified or not) the game is getting too buggy/hard/non fun.
ive seen this pattern in almost every MMO thats failed
1/ all the "hardcores" say stuff like " go play another game then " " this games not for the likes of you"
2/ fast forward a month or 2 " my guilds dying" "where is everyone " ,, " is this game dead"
3/ finally " come back its fun now , they fixed stuff"
just a warning from the history of failed MMO's , name one "hardcore" MMO thats survived in the last 10 years?
conversely name some who pleased the hardcore for a few months then died due to alienating the "average" players
MMO's need to be balanced around the majority of its player base in terms of what they percieve to be a fair and fun experience. harcores can make it more difficult and challenging if they wish (but they dont, they just want to make it as easy as possible otherwise why would they ALWAYS play the most OP builds , classes)
anything else is a recipe for failure. you dont alienate the largest section of your customer base and survive long..
food for thought
MMO survive based on social interaction. Difficult content requires players to group and interact to progress. These games are about people.
Your post is absurd. Whining because you want to steamroll everything is bad for the game. I cannot solo five mobs!!! I got picked on in gym class!!!
Btw. Those games die because they listen to whiners on the forums who demand balance changes based on garbage. So you are right in a way. They need to not listen to people like you.
This game will not survive unless players have a reason to socially interact in PvE content. The first step was raising the difficulty. Due to bads, whiners, low tier garbage players the game took another step back.
Man up.
You know, the biggest sub loss in wow's history happened after a blog post titled "wow, dungeons are hard!" In fact, it tanked enough that the hauled ass to rectify the problem, and it never recovered.
The man in charge now works on LoL.
That damn Ghostcrawler fellow....
Actually the biggest sub loss was when MOP came out. and prior to that when China did that huge video game ban and fked over the farmers.
I only refer to Western market. Most of their ww losses come from China because the powers that be are retentive about everything. From zombies and skeletons at death to their national symbol, theyve been bent over wow since day 1.
MoP biggest failure was the inital gating of everything behind rep grinds.
Kinda reminds me of gating 2/3 of the game behind a single quest line.
Both were kvetched about in beta, both were kvetched about in live.
At least Blizzard admitted the arbitrary gating was a bad idea.
Point being, devs telling players to get bent caused a mass exodus, specifically a difficulty increase.
Arbitrary gating also caused one. I stuck around despite that until my guild had half of heroic seige on farm and I couldnt take the boredom anymore.
I find this game also has an arbitrary gate: requiring a quest line to be done. I can complete it no problem, but the only reasons I find people using to justify its current state are coming across as fallacy.
I dont even like the current vr state though Im fine with its difficulty. I will agree the difficulty curve is much too sharp going from Coldharbour to vr1 zone.1