Deadly Bash - Before and After

Maverick827

Pre-patch I was getting about 300 damage per bash, now I'm getting 100. It took all of my stamina to kill a level 39 mudcrab on a VR1.

1H/Shield is no longer viable for leveling. As a character who is invested heavily into stamina, this means my character is no longer viable at all. To continue playing my character, I need to:

1) Respec my skills - 20k
2) Respec my attributes - 5k
3) Skill up another weapon and armor type from very low levels - is this even possible in veteran zones if you can't even solo mobs anymore?

psychoman88ub17_ESO

I will do just fine without, i have been the whole time.

jkbennettb14a_ESO

MrBeatDown wrote: »

jkbennettb14a_ESO wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

Only quoted part of the statement to save some space.

I totally agree. What amazes me though it is how some one could stand to level a character by only pressing one button from level 1 all the way through V10. Talk about boring.

This is Eso. I don't know what game you think this is, But you have to hit several buttons to get to V10

Must be one of the whiners that got his but whooped by a level 42 Basher in PvP because you don't know how to duel.

Your tears...delicious they are.

I do just fine on my dk without abusing an unintended mechanic, thanks for your concern though.

PVT_Parts

jkbennettb14a_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

jkbennettb14a_ESO wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

Only quoted part of the statement to save some space.

I totally agree. What amazes me though it is how some one could stand to level a character by only pressing one button from level 1 all the way through V10. Talk about boring.

This is Eso. I don't know what game you think this is, But you have to hit several buttons to get to V10

Must be one of the whiners that got his but whooped by a level 42 Basher in PvP because you don't know how to duel.

Your tears...delicious they are.

I do just fine on my dk without abusing an unintended mechanic, thanks for your concern though.

Bash nerf is not a DK nerf. Everyone can bash. In fact, no class passives that I know of assist with bashing. You don't know what you are talking about.

jkbennettb14a_ESO

PVT_Parts wrote: »

jkbennettb14a_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

jkbennettb14a_ESO wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

Only quoted part of the statement to save some space.

I totally agree. What amazes me though it is how some one could stand to level a character by only pressing one button from level 1 all the way through V10. Talk about boring.

This is Eso. I don't know what game you think this is, But you have to hit several buttons to get to V10

Must be one of the whiners that got his but whooped by a level 42 Basher in PvP because you don't know how to duel.

Your tears...delicious they are.

I do just fine on my dk without abusing an unintended mechanic, thanks for your concern though.

Bash nerf is not a DK nerf. Everyone can bash. In fact, no class passives that I know of assist with bashing. You don't know what you are talking about.

I do just fine without abusing unintended mechanics on all classes. There, now I know what I'm talking about.

Never said dk gave a distinct advantage, just my main so whatever.

It's ok, you keep being mad bro.

symbolism

Can I still play my class and solo? Yes.

Is it still worthwhile having Sword and Board for Dungeons? Yes.

Does that change the fact that completely neutering a single skill line by more than half of its effectiveness is a reckless nerf? No.

I realise that it is hard finding a balance between PVP and PVE abilities and that bash was giving a dynamic for DK's in PVP that was not anticipated, however considering that PVE balance (since early beta testing) was built on the tank basically being able to have defense up at all times while doing enough damage to generate threat, I think you'll find the longer term repercussions of playability go far wider than just the DK class.

Our agro/threat management is no where near as good as what other games provide tanks and one way of controlling that was to do a lot of ST damage with our bash, while getting all the benefits of active blocking. Don't be surprised if your previously capable tank suddenly starts dropping a lot of aggro on you while you use your ranged spells that did more DPS than Bash ever could at close distance.

jkbennettb14a_ESO

symbolism wrote: »

Does that change the fact that completely neutering a single skill line by more than half of its effectiveness is a reckless nerf? No.

Totally agree with that. In fact every nerf they have done to this point has been that way. Equating to throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Don't know what tell you other than balancing and tweeking this game does not seem to be a strong suit with the devs thus far. Maybe it will get better, I sure hope so.

Dublicious

Maverick827 wrote: »

angelohupb14_ESO wrote: »

Who used 1h/shield as damage anyhow? Shouldn't that be for DEFENCE and your damage coming from class skills or swapping to a 2 hander or DW ?

For that matter, I'd like to play as a sorcerer whose staff provides the same defensive benefits as a shield. Come on ZOS! Let me play how I want! I also want heavy armor that gives me Magicka!

Therium104

Emperor wrote: »

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

3 seconds cooldown is too long for interrupt bash.

It is when you solo all the time.

Taking on 3 NPC's at once now would be very hard. Quite often you need to zonk 2 enemies almost simultaneously in order to avoid death blows.

Stupid move, three seconds. Another reason to not subscribe.

Yea... I don't understand their logic. Shield bash should just be a way to counter someone using a power attack and do some damage, not a special attack with a 3 second cooldown that does a lot of damage.

They should have just decreased the damage done by it.

Based on what exactly. Slamming a shield into someone's face should do damage. I cannot believe the devs made this change. Nerfing shield bash is an embarasdment to the game and an insult to paying cusomters.

Does not bode well for the future of this game. If ESO wants to kill the game and flush a long respected title down the toilet there are cheaper ways.

Like pulling the plug. Bethesda needs to step in and stop this garbage.

Alpha_Protocol

Nehefer wrote: »

As a tank, I now have almost no way to DPS anything now that bashing my way through the game is worthless. Tanks literally have almost no damage output now. Soloing just got much more annoying.

Xenrae wrote: »

Nehefer wrote: »

As a tank, I now have almost no way to DPS anything now that bashing my way through the game is worthless. Tanks literally have almost no damage output now. Soloing just got much more annoying.

Yes. Exactly.

Lol stamina tanks crack me up. Guys, this game doesn't favor stamina builds for dps. You need to adjust your play style so you can dodge and block when needed... but that's not how things die... unless your objective is to die first.

One Two

DKs can't bash their way to victory anymore...booohoooo!

Akhratos

Wait, whats this post Im in? Deadly what?

Aeradon

How does slightly moving a shield forward is supposed to give you more damage than charged heavy attacks?

It's meant to interrupt. It rewards players with decent reaction time. It does not only interrupts casting enemies, it also very responsive in the sense that it interrupts your own casting and animation. I had always felt that interrupt is so strong and unique that it's almost overpowered, but then again everyone could use it. It's not meant for spamming, they punish you with huge amount of stamina cost for that.

It's meant to be a part of your DPS, a strong component if used correctly, but not as the solo source of your DPS. You have a weapon that comes along with that shield. Just like 2H having a blade on the hilt, I certainly have yet to see 2H builds that run around smacking people in their faces with the hilt and never used the blade.

Shield bash passives makes sense to cut the stamina cost, giving an option to have better stamina management while your in their face. You're not gonna roll away when you tank, you're gonna always have stamina for that crucial bash, and still have some left for that taunt.

1HS has so many viable DPS options. You have active skills for a reason, some 1HS burst DPS like crazy. And I doubt running pure tank could actually get you to your levels without problems, unless you're highly skilled, of which if you're whining I highly doubt that.

Learn to rotate your combat options. Spamming "Low Kick" will not win your Street Fighter match.

YuccaPalm

Maverick827 wrote: »

angelohupb14_ESO wrote: »

Who used 1h/shield as damage anyhow? Shouldn't that be for DEFENCE and your damage coming from class skills or swapping to a 2 hander or DW ?

I would like to play melee and do more than 100 dmg per hit so I can kill ppl with a 5k + life pool who kite me.

Maverick827

YuccaPalm wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

angelohupb14_ESO wrote: »

Who used 1h/shield as damage anyhow? Shouldn't that be for DEFENCE and your damage coming from class skills or swapping to a 2 hander or DW ?

I would like to play melee and do more than 100 dmg per hit so I can kill ppl with a 5k + life pool who kite me.

Such lofty goals.

Cogo

I am kinda lost here. Zenimax fixed a problem with this skill that they announced WEEKS ago.

Problem solved. Why is this thread 4 pages long and doesnt stop at first page with "Stop whining and play the game"?

Korkhan

The cry from unskilled DKs is like a music to my NB tank ears.

I have used SnB all they way to V3 almost exclusively and I cannot imagine to use other weapons now. Taking a group of 3 is easy - Power Slam to cc and reapply when needed. When facing a tough solo caster (I'm looking at you Strom Atronach) I add or swap with Absorb Magic. The rest are skills from my NB trees but I always have Swallow Souls and Killer's Blade on my bar. And yes I use normal and heavy attacks - I do have a sword in my hand for a reason.

Will the bash change affect me? No way. I use it to interrupt and not so often - I find Power Slam to be more responsive and reliable - a guaranteed stun. I think a skill used to interrupt should do 0 (ZERO) dmg and add a stun when the interrupt is a success.

Aeradon

Korkhan wrote: »

The cry from unskilled DKs is like a music to my NB tank ears.

I have used SnB all they way to V3 almost exclusively and I cannot imagine to use other weapons now. Taking a group of 3 is easy - Power Slam to cc and reapply when needed. When facing a tough solo caster (I'm looking at you Strom Atronach) I add or swap with Absorb Magic. The rest are skills from my NB trees but I always have Swallow Souls and Killer's Blade on my bar. And yes I use normal and heavy attacks - I do have a sword in my hand for a reason.

Will the bash change affect me? No way. I use it to interrupt and not so often - I find Power Slam to be more responsive and reliable - a guaranteed stun. I think a skill used to interrupt should do 0 (ZERO) dmg and add a stun when the interrupt is a success.

I now have more faith in the community I am in.

Beware, they might want to nerf your brain because you're OP.

sagitter

Thinking that bash was a primary dmg skill is just dumb, this fix was needed, all meleers around were just bashing, me also. Most of damaging skills are magicka based, u don't need bash, or u scared cause now u have to use a slot instead?

CorporalCrimson

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

before:


after:


If bash cost 200 stamina without Deadly Bash, then it cost 100 stamina before 1.1.2 and 120 after... Is this really a big deal?

I found no "delay" or cooldown that some had complained about.

The first picture is photoshopped, the font is incorrect. This is not a valid point any more.

Aeradon

CorporalCrimson wrote: »

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

before:


after:


If bash cost 200 stamina without Deadly Bash, then it cost 100 stamina before 1.1.2 and 120 after... Is this really a big deal?

I found no "delay" or cooldown that some had complained about.

The first picture is photoshopped, the font is incorrect. This is not a valid point any more.

It's from some skill calculator site. And these players have to understand/accept the fact that it's done.

Stratti

I use bash as my primary dps for one reason only - it is significant in the damage - more so than evey other ability combined.

While I am unhappy with the nerf I wil deal with it. Sword and Board will still be viable as we have a number of other abilities that we can replace in the rotation.

Also I haven't tested it - does someone have some data on the new dps of using bash - for example we will still weave it in - it is quick, it is cheap.

To all the people whining lets all calm down a little. Clearly the level of DPS was very high with this ability - I know this because at V3 I took down 4 mobs alone using a bunch of abilities and Spamming Bash as well . The dude near me was a dps class and was still on 2 whilie I cleaned mine up . Clearly it was stated to be OP

WoW used the nerf bat a lot. Expect more nerfs to come - it is called balancing

You all sound like whining entitled children crying because someone took your favourite toy

Adapt - overcome
From a proud passionate S+B DK

Zaxq

Nehefer wrote: »

As a tank, I now have almost no way to DPS anything now that bashing my way through the game is worthless. Tanks literally have almost no damage output now. Soloing just got much more annoying.

So you're crying because you have to use an actual damaging ability rather than exploit something that wasn't ever intended? (Bash-spam).

You KNEW it was an exploit. You KNEW it was getting fixed and yet didn't prepare anything for when that time came.

And just because they advertise 'playing as you want" at no point does it promise that that will be successful and that you don't have to adapt/change/try something new.

Heck, if it was truly "play-as-you-want" then I should be able to beat the game naked, with no abilities on my bar at all. Because that's how I want to play.

Stratti

Zaxq wrote: »

Nehefer wrote: »

As a tank, I now have almost no way to DPS anything now that bashing my way through the game is worthless. Tanks literally have almost no damage output now. Soloing just got much more annoying.

So you're crying because you have to use an actual damaging ability rather than exploit something that wasn't ever intended? (Bash-spam).

You KNEW it was an exploit. You KNEW it was getting fixed and yet didn't prepare anything for when that time came.

And just because they advertise 'playing as you want" at no point does it promise that that will be successful and that you don't have to adapt/change/try something new.

Heck, if it was truly "play-as-you-want" then I should be able to beat the game naked, with no abilities on my bar at all. Because that's how I want to play.

Honestly there is no need for that reply. I agree with you but what are you adding to the debate - naturally some will get upset at a nerf. I still do not know the extent of the nerf - I suspect it isnt as bad as people are saying (this is usually the case)

Lets be better to each other while the game is new lest we become like the wow forums.

ShintaiDK

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I use bash as my primary dps for one reason only - it is significant in the damage - more so than evey other ability combined.

While I am unhappy with the nerf I wil deal with it. Sword and Board will still be viable as we have a number of other abilities that we can replace in the rotation.

Also I haven't tested it - does someone have some data on the new dps of using bash - for example we will still weave it in - it is quick, it is cheap.

To all the people whining lets all calm down a little. Clearly the level of DPS was very high with this ability - I know this because at V3 I took down 4 mobs alone using a bunch of abilities and Spamming Bash as well . The dude near me was a dps class and was still on 2 whilie I cleaned mine up . Clearly it was stated to be OP

WoW used the nerf bat a lot. Expect more nerfs to come - it is called balancing

You all sound like whining entitled children crying because someone took your favourite toy

Adapt - overcome
From a proud passionate S+B DK

Its about half damage. The +0.5sec delay on all melee skills didnt help either. And what other skills? Pierce armour is broken, Cripling slash is now the highest dps output, and its below 250dps with the changes. Not to mention you run out of stamina before you do 1500dmg. And thats with mobs that now has 4000HP as minimum and some as high as 17000.

Stratti

Im not sure how a lot of other DK's were playing - I use embers and fiery breath , I know the latter was buffed - I also have all of AF available to swap in and out -

I guess we will find a new way to DPS that is the fun .

Karizza

When I used light attack with main hand sword I noticed that damage was down 10% with light attack and 20% with heavy attack. Regular bash damage was cut in half and the delay to reuse it makes it even weaker. Can this be overcome? I am sure of it. But it is going to move every player to be fire mages rather than melee fighters. It would seem that there is still some badly needed stamina ability boosts to the game to catch up with magic.

stungateb14_ESO

Just another example of why Matt Firor should never be allowed to develop, manage or have any other responsibilities associated with mmorpgs. ESO is becoming DAOC:TOA all over again. Atleast he's managing to destroy ESO much faster than it took him to destroy DAOC so I don't have to play for 2 years before it turns to another wow clone.

Alpha_Protocol

CorporalCrimson wrote: »

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

before:


after:


If bash cost 200 stamina without Deadly Bash, then it cost 100 stamina before 1.1.2 and 120 after... Is this really a big deal?

I found no "delay" or cooldown that some had complained about.

The first picture is photoshopped, the font is incorrect. This is not a valid point any more.

The "before" pic was cropped from a screen of the ESO.HEAD skill calculator since the patch was live. The "after" pic was from one of my characters 20 minutes after the patch went live. I used CS to crop the pics... what's your point?

ShintaiDK

So a recap in short.

Bash down from 260 to 72 without passives and 102 with passives. Its slower as well. So bash dps is around 85dps.

And redguard armour is pink, khajiit is orange.