Zenimax going back on a promise about Racial Motiff's in 1.2

Vlaxitov

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That said, it is intended that these should be rare items, so keep that in mind.

So in other words, its supposed to be rare like a windforce in diablo 2 and inspire people to bot in your game for the sake of making money. Maybe if motifs were bind on pick up item I would understand why "these should be rare items."

Again, I personally don't care about the motifs. What I do care about is the negative impact it causes to the game environment and as long as you moderate these forums more than the actual game itself, stuff like this is the worst.

Loxy37

Since they initially nerf hammering of the Motifs, I've gotten about 1 of each and a Primal on my VR but I would say that's about right as it was terribad before and really screwed over the crafters who could have had a better chance at making some cash if everyone and their dogs didn't already have every motif.

Oh and by the way, your text makes my eyes bleed. If you want to be taken seriously then may I be so bold as to ask you to write in plain English as my pig English needs some work!

Crushinator

I think it would be fantastic if ZoS flagged every single account as "suspicious" that was commenting how they feel they are being driven to gold farmers. They seem to be the most inclined to gently nudge aside that ToS agreement they signed.

Seriously, if you think EVER that buying gold would be justified, go play something that's Pay-to-Win, you can pay and then win, and not worry about the pesky playing part.

GreasedLizard

100k + for rare motifs = something broken

Lumpy_Space_Elf

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

@EvilEmpire ...Because you call others idiots while failing to actually quote effectively, demonstrating your.... "superior" mental prowess, I had to double post. So people can actually read what I wrote and not mix what I say with your dribble.

Lot's of posts here, zone chat, guild chat, and just about everything else disagrees with your assessment there. That and looking at the market, and what stuff is going for. But, I guess such things as science and fact are beyond your grasp.

I'm sorry but as others have pointed out you are using anecdotal evidence, and hearsay to back up your points, and in the same breath claiming they are "science and fact". You and others in this thread have insulated that the devs are forcing people to buy gold b/c they want an item in their game to remain RARE. People have stated in this thread that they have found motif's in the last few days but you ignored them.

The bottom line is they did what they said. They looked into the issue. The fact that their findings didn't agree with your, and ALL the people in chat and your guilds that agree with you, feelings on the matter is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if each one the motif's are set to only drop once per day, if they re intended to be rare, they are intended to be rare, what's the problem? Rare item is rare item.

No one playing this game is entitled to any of the items that drop in the game. Do you have a chance at getting one? Absolutely, the same chance as everyone else. This is the problem w/ MMO's, games in general, and sadly, more and more people in general (and that goes for my children too b/c they are like this as well, but my wife and I are doing are best to fight it), everyone thinks they are entitled to everything and nothing should be hard to obtain or work for. You want all the motif's so they should drop more? Nonsense. People have shown they are dropping, and the dev's are ensuring the motif's stay rare. It's not a statement on the gold sellers, they are in every game. It's not a statement on anything except for the fact that the devs want the motif's to be rare.

Maotti

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We'll certainly keep an eye on the feedback about motif drop rates after this patch rolls out and you've had a chance to play through. That said, it is intended that these should be rare items, so keep that in mind.

I just hope i'll soon be able to find a Imperial motif, though i'm in no rush!

SDZald

Hey Lumpy_Space_Elf would you call 500K for a rare Motif that ONLY affects appearances not playability anecdotal?

Shillen

hiyde wrote: »

Some of the changes listed in these notes took place before this patch (officer chat fix comes to mind). I'm guessing there was not a further nerf to drop rates but hey I could be wrong.

What this guy said. Pretty sure that's just the same note as when they originally nerfed the droprate.

Vlaxitov

Crushinator wrote: »

I think it would be fantastic if ZoS flagged every single account as "suspicious" that was commenting how they feel they are being driven to gold farmers. They seem to be the most inclined to gently nudge aside that ToS agreement they signed.

Seriously, if you think EVER that buying gold would be justified, go play something that's Pay-to-Win, you can pay and then win, and not worry about the pesky playing part.

Yeah man its more that I don't want to play alongside gold buyers in a game infested with gold sellers and if you don't see how making tradeable items extremely rare encourages both I don't know what to tell you.

Oberon

Crushinator wrote: »

I think it would be fantastic if ZoS flagged every single account as "suspicious" that was commenting how they feel they are being driven to gold farmers. They seem to be the most inclined to gently nudge aside that ToS agreement they signed.

Seriously, if you think EVER that buying gold would be justified, go play something that's Pay-to-Win, you can pay and then win, and not worry about the pesky playing part.

I'm arguing against the gold sellers. I don't want masses of players heading to them. That's the entire problem. I don't care about the motifs themselves, but we have to look at the facts. Quite a large number of players will not farm them because the drop rates are microscopic now. They will head to the gold sellers, and this runs counter to the whole idea of battling against the bots.

The emotional arguments about "they're just cosmetic, you don't have to buy them, blah blah blah" have nothing to do with anything, do not contribute positively to the discussion, and are thus ignored.

kevjon74_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We'll certainly keep an eye on the feedback about motif drop rates after this patch rolls out and you've had a chance to play through. That said, it is intended that these should be rare items, so keep that in mind.

*Shrug* your game, your rules. But for the sake of fairness, it's a shame they weren't as rare as you intended them to be from the get-go.

cfriedman71ub17_ESO

Elder_III wrote: »

The drop rate was way too high before, it was lowered greatly - yet I have still found 10 or more since then (and I do not go out of my way looking for them). The "rare" motifs such as Daedric etc should be rare and valuable. The game needs gold sinks other then buying a third horse and hiring other players to follow you as bards, minstrels and strippers. No need to cry in your beer because everyone's self entitlement obsession isn't being canoodled.

Obviously doesn't understand the gold -sink concept. Buying gold for real money from a botter then using that gold to pay a botter for a motif is not a gold-sink. It doesn't take gold out of circulation, just encourages botters. Because they then make real money.

Crushinator

Oberon wrote: »

Crushinator wrote: »

I think it would be fantastic if ZoS flagged every single account as "suspicious" that was commenting how they feel they are being driven to gold farmers. They seem to be the most inclined to gently nudge aside that ToS agreement they signed.

Seriously, if you think EVER that buying gold would be justified, go play something that's Pay-to-Win, you can pay and then win, and not worry about the pesky playing part.

I'm arguing against the gold sellers. I don't want masses of players heading to them. That's the entire problem. I don't care about the motifs themselves, but we have to look at the facts. Quite a large number of players will not farm them because the drop rates are microscopic now. They will head to the gold sellers, and this runs counter to the whole idea of battling against the bots.

The emotional arguments about "they're just cosmetic, you don't have to buy them, blah blah blah" have nothing to do with anything, do not contribute positively to the discussion, and are thus ignored.

They are INTEGRAL to the discussion. You are claiming people are driven to gold sellers. That this exacerbates the gold seller problem. It only exacerbates the problem because people buy gold to buy motifs.

IF PEOPLE DID NOT BUY GOLD, GOLD SELLERS WOULD STOP.

That simple fact seems to be missed by so many people.

YES. If they were BoP this would solve the issue. I personally would endorse this potential solution.

YES. They are rare to drop, and rare is a good thing. I hate cookie cutter games where everyone looks the same.

NO. No one is forcing a single soul to buy gold to buy a cosmetic appearance modifier. People are choosing to buy gold.

NO. I will not be convinced that whining about the nerf rate is even remotely constructive. Suggesting solutions is constructive. And some of you have done so, and some of those I agree with. Thanks to those folks.

NO. Not everyone who is supporting this nerf is either a gold farmer, powerplayer who farms some sort of demon possessed, or a ZoS fanboy. Some of us are just sick of the attitude that you are owed something. Entitlement is a plague on our society in general, and having it bleed over into my preferred method of relaxation is unfortunate.

SDZald

Like Vlaxitov and Oberon have been saying, it does NOT matter what item you are making very rare, it could be a slice of cheese, if the decision to make a item rare and hard to get then you HAVE to make it non tradable.

EOS keeps saying how they are doing everything they can to combat Gold Farmers and yet they make a change to the game that just encourages them. Either they are disingenuous or they have no clue on what drives an economy. I am not sure what is worse.

Vlaxitov

Crushinator wrote: »

IF PEOPLE DID NOT BUY GOLD, GOLD SELLERS WOULD STOP.

ZoS is forcing us to play with gold sellers and buyers by creating a market for it.

You just don't have the humility to admit that.

Inupis

SDZald wrote: »

Vlaxitov I think you will find the people defending this nerf are one of three types.
1)Company shill, trying to keep the masses from storming the gates.
2)Gold Farmers.
3)Power gamers who base their entire personal worth around the ability to have something in game that few others have.

I think people wanting the original drop rate are content locust that do not want two work for or have anything rare in the game. The type of people that think their $15 means they should have everything because they logged in. The kind of people that ruin MMO's. The kind of people that want CO-OP single player games instead of MMO's. They can not give one good reason why they want the drop rate increased except they feel they should win without effort/luck/skill/time.

JessieColt

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Nitratas wrote: »

Daedric motif is going for more than half a million gold at the moment. Theres no way to save that much money without abusing the market.

Yup, zenimax is encouraging you to buy gold for your dollars and encourage all this botting and RMT

Or just wait until you actually find it?

If you do.

Crushinator wrote: »

Oberon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. We wanted to clarify a couple things for you about this issue -

The note you’re seeing in today’s patch notes regarding the reduced rate of earning racial motifs and provisioning recipes is actually for a reduction that already happened in patch v1.0.5, but we unintentionally missed the patch note for it when it was first introduced. Our apologies for the confusion this may have caused.

When this reduction initially happened, it presented an issue that caused more empty containers and furniture than intended. That issue has been fixed in today’s patch, so you will no longer find intractable objects saying they have items, but are actually empty.

At the end of the day, the nearly non existent drop rates for purple Provisioning recipes and rare motifs (Daedra, Ancient Elf, Barbaric, Primal) mandates that players go to gold sellers and then purchase those items from players who cheated to get large numbers of them.

That's the bottom line here.

Make those items account bound and dramatically increase the drop rates and the entire issue vanishes.

Why the hell do so many whiners claim they are FORCED to go do something? No one, and I mean NO ONE, is forcing (or Mandating that) you go out and buy gold from a gold seller to get a motif. It's COSMETIC. NON-FUNCTIONAL.

So much freaking QQ about aesthetics. Holy crap. Pay a crafter who has it, or get lucky. Acting like it's your RIGHT to have these motifs is idiotic (I'm holding back).

You want it? Get lucky and find it, buy it with gold.
I absolutely never farm stuff. I have no gold to buy motifs. And yet I understand the same thing several people have pointed out. My ability to play my character is absolutely unhindered by not having Daedric or High Elf.

so much facepalming while reading this thread. I wish I hadn't clicked on it!

The problem is the economy is busted. People can only afford them now if they did the exploits earlier when the game launched, whom are also the people selling those motiffs usually, since those accounts got banned, because somehow, Zenimax was unable to identify who actually did dupe. Don't ask me why. That is just what happened.

The only people who THINK they cannot afford it are the ones who THINK that they have to buy it because they live in the Delusion Zone called "I want it NAO".

If people would stop acting like they are entitled to everything that the game offers in the way of Cosmetic Items, items that have NO affect on the armor itself other than as a costume, the prices would drop like a ton of bricks.

Do I want Daedric? Sure. Do I want Ancient Elf? Sure. Do I want Primal? Oops, looted 2 copies since the 1.05 "nerf" already.

But I sure in the hell not going to pay for them. And I sure in the hell do not live my life in game around whether or not I have them. And I SURE in the hell do not think that by paying for the game I am somehow entitled to ***, whine, and complain that I have to OMG, find one, for myself.

Oberon

Crushinator wrote: »

You are claiming people are driven to gold sellers. That this exacerbates the gold seller problem. It only exacerbates the problem because people buy gold to buy motifs.

IF PEOPLE DID NOT BUY GOLD, GOLD SELLERS WOULD STOP.

This is quite obviously true. Players are not going to make 500,000 - 1,000,000 gold and give that to an exploiter to get their rare motifs. They're going to buy that gold with real money and give that gold to the exploiter.

Make all of the motifs bind to account and be done with it. This has several positive effects, not the least of which is keeping the drop rates low to avoid people thinking they are "entitled" to them. I despise the entitlement society just as much as you do.

• Make motifs and purple provisioner recipes bound to your account.
• ZOS can keep the drop rates low, allowing for rare in-game items.
• Players who want them won't be able to purchase gold to buy them.
• We don't encourage the entitlement nonsense.
• Win.

GeeYouWhy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We'll certainly keep an eye on the feedback about motif drop rates after this patch rolls out and you've had a chance to play through. That said, it is intended that these should be rare items, so keep that in mind.

That would be just fine if I could even find a container that hasn't been looted already, forget the dang drop rate.

Inupis

Vlaxitov wrote: »

People who argue for extreme rarity of these items are just failing to see what extreme rarity has done to other games. The very first bot I ever heard of in an online game was diablo 2 with mephbot and pindlebot. It was extreme rarity of items in diablo 2 that gave birth to these bots.

At least in diablo 2 extremely rare items were actually functional items. In this game were talking about useless textures and people are actually defending the encouragement a game degrading plague of botting farmers for the sake of keeping those useless textures extremely rare.

So nothing should be rare. We should just all be the same. No one should hit the jackpot finding something. We should basically just get bored as *** because we got/saw/did everything in the shortest amount of time before another game comes out that you can move to and whine about something rare in that game. Even rare items that DO NOTHING but give you a cosmetic effect.

Lalai

Someone else said it, but I think it needs repeating as it went un-noticed. There are a few things listed in the patch notes for this that actually got implemented a little before the patch. Racial Motifs is one of these things. I don't think they further reduced the drop rate, but rather the patch notes didn't get updated when they implemented it early (as other items that got patched early are also still in those patch notes).

Racial Motif drops do suck right now, but I think people are kinda over-reacting in thinking that they were again nerfed.

SK1TZ0FR3N1K

OK, let's solve this problem. Everyone out there with a rare motif, hold on to them for a few weeks. Take your posting down out of the guild store. Any that you pick up, send to an alt to hold. Let's pull them out of the market completely. For the next 2 weeks, if you want one, you can farm it. And, quit with the "casual player is getting screwed" crap...it's old, and it's flat bull crap. A casual player by definition is just cruising around the game. They are not in a hurry to get somewhere/something. It only hurts the "I want it because you have it, and that's fair" people.

Lumpy_Space_Elf

Vlaxitov wrote: »

Crushinator wrote: »

IF PEOPLE DID NOT BUY GOLD, GOLD SELLERS WOULD STOP.

ZoS is forcing us to play with gold sellers and buyers by creating a market for it.

You just don't have the humility to admit that.

No, it has nothing to do with humility and everything to do with the fact that saying that having a rare item in the game that is tradeable, is somehow forcing people to go to gold sellers is just utterly ridiculous and totally indicative of the entitlement that Crushinator have posted about.

So, b/c an item is rare, and b/c you would potentially have to put in many hours of time into the game to obtain you HAVE to go to a gold seller...that is what you are claiming. That you can't be bothered to put in the time to obtain it by playing the game, so you have to break the rules and buy gold from a bot that the entire community is complaining about.

Not only that, but you are saying there should be NO rare or hard to obtain items in the game b/c no one will play the game to obtain it, they will just go to a gold seller. Do you see the fallacy in that argument? Someone that is going to a gold seller is going to do it anyway. A "good" player, someone that feels the gold sellers violate the game and it's integrity will NOT be driven to a gold seller b/c they want a rare item. The only people that will now go to a gold seller is a cheater that would have done it anyway.

Inupis

Vlaxitov wrote: »

Crushinator wrote: »

IF PEOPLE DID NOT BUY GOLD, GOLD SELLERS WOULD STOP.

ZoS is forcing us to play with gold sellers and buyers by creating a market for it.

You just don't have the humility to admit that.

No you do not have the willpower to resist buying something just because it is there. The market exists because entitled people do not think they should work from something instead they demand to have everything even if they have to cheat to get it.

These things cost so much because idiots will buy it. Yes that is right...idiots.

daveben007b14a_ESO

I haven't done the login/out to try and get the motif and I was able to complete most of the 1-50 motif minus the imperial one but now at vr3 I check everything and have yet to get primal or barabaric ones and I am def not keeping my hopes up since the nerf to the drop rates bah. just don't want pay 20-60k for them makes no sense

Vlaxitov

Inupis wrote: »

I think people wanting the original drop rate are content locust that do not want two work for or have anything rare in the game. The type of people that think their $15 means they should have everything because they logged in. The kind of people that ruin MMO's. The kind of people that want CO-OP single player games instead of MMO's. They can not give one good reason why they want the drop rate increased except they feel they should win without effort/luck/skill/time.

People wanting things to be extremely rare based on chance rather than some accomplishment that actually represents a level of hand eye coordination are the real locust in online games.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We'll certainly keep an eye on the feedback about motif drop rates after this patch rolls out and you've had a chance to play through. That said, it is intended that these should be rare items, so keep that in mind.

So you shouldn't have any problem making every motif in existence Bound. That will boost its rarity a lot, since then you absolutely would have to find your own motif. Right now other people can find one for you, and thats just not very rare.

Inupis

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

OK, let's solve this problem. Everyone out there with a rare motif, hold on to them for a few weeks. Take your posting down out of the guild store. Any that you pick up, send to an alt to hold. Let's pull them out of the market completely. For the next 2 weeks, if you want one, you can farm it. And, quit with the "casual player is getting screwed" crap...it's old, and it's flat bull crap. A casual player by definition is just cruising around the game. They are not in a hurry to get somewhere/something. It only hurts the "I want it because you have it, and that's fair" people.

these are not the real casuals...they are the game jumpers. They want to do everything and move to the next game. Real casuals log in and do their thing and do not stress about having the latest shinies. It is the "Keeping Up With The Jone's Without Working For It" crowd.

SK1TZ0FR3N1K

Vlaxitov wrote: »

ZoS is forcing us to play with gold sellers and buyers by creating a market for it.

I don't have the Daedric Motif yet, and I'm not running to the gold seller's. ZOS isn't making anyone do anything. Your entitled *** is the only one making you do anything.

LonePirate

I still don't understand why these were intended to be rare in the first place. Rare items not earned via combat only generate economic problems and these motifs certainly have generated plenty of problems.

Instead of making these books found in lootable containers, the books should have been quest rewards. For instance, put a once a day quest in each faction's capital city where the loot reward is a random motif book from the first 10 books. I would then make the 4 "rare" books be email rewards for reaching Veteran Rank 3, 5, 7 and 9. Every player would have the same opportunity to earn those 4 motifs while simultaneously preventing people from hoarding these books and selling them for inflated prices. It would also serve as a carrot for those players who need extra motivation to continue leveling the Veteran Ranks.