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Frostbite set still not properly applying 4% more damage to chilled enemies
I will preface this with the fact that this testing was not done by me as my understanding of the game and how to test numbers is limited, but it has been tested and confirmed by one of the game's very best nerds.
How I have proved this:
Starting with a base character/no passives, equipping exclusively green frostbite, swift/mag reco jewelry, and no weapon. This means my only flat damage increases are the weapon damage lines, and the 570 max mag on the 2 body pieces. This means our relevant offensive stats for a skill are 1234 weapon damage and 12570 max mag (up from 1000, 12000).
Taking off 1 jewelry piece (which offers no offensive stats by itself), I can 1:1 compare the damage with and without the 5 piece. By using the damage calculation and Chilling Torch's damage coefficient (Using chilling torch because it has no skill rank modifier making for more accurate calculaton) we can predict that my Chilling Torch will do 964 damage to an 18200 armor enemy with 0 pen on me. This is correct.
By now re-equipping the jewelry piece to complete the 5 piece and dealing damage with Chilling Torch again, you can see I deal 1040 damage instead of 964. If we do 1.08* more damage in the Player % damage section of the calculation (where it would end up), this is also spitting out 1040 end damage, so the 8% works.
If we repeatedly spam Chilling Torch to get a Chill proc, which has a 5% base chance per hit of occuring (but likely lowered as this is a multi-hit skill lol), you will notice that there is no damage increase despite Frostbite's tooltip stating 4% should be added (additively, likely).
Next I tested Minor Brittle. By using Rune of the Colorless Pool (SoA skill line) I can guarantee it being applied, however this also applies minor vuln. I need to first test how much damage I deal with the same setup as previously, and then adding only minor vuln, which ends up as 1093 (which we can again verify using the damage calculation). I used the unmorphed skill for this, then I morphed it into giving brittle which would be the only difference. With brittle chilling torch did 1113 damage, which lines up with increasing 1.08 to 1.10.
Just to be overwhelmingly clear.
4piece Frostbite:
5piece Frostbite:
5piece frostbite with Chill proc (from 6-10seconds):
5piece Frostbite with Minor Vuln and Minor Brittle and Chilled:
This set has been out for a long time and this issue has been brought up on the forums and passed around via word of mouth for quite a while as well. I know the players who want to enjoy frost builds are a small but vocal minority, but I think the least we could expect is to have the sole good frost enabling set in the game at least work as intended. @BasP @ESO_Nightingale for your enjoyment as Warden enthusiasts.
How I have proved this:
Starting with a base character/no passives, equipping exclusively green frostbite, swift/mag reco jewelry, and no weapon. This means my only flat damage increases are the weapon damage lines, and the 570 max mag on the 2 body pieces. This means our relevant offensive stats for a skill are 1234 weapon damage and 12570 max mag (up from 1000, 12000).
Taking off 1 jewelry piece (which offers no offensive stats by itself), I can 1:1 compare the damage with and without the 5 piece. By using the damage calculation and Chilling Torch's damage coefficient (Using chilling torch because it has no skill rank modifier making for more accurate calculaton) we can predict that my Chilling Torch will do 964 damage to an 18200 armor enemy with 0 pen on me. This is correct.
By now re-equipping the jewelry piece to complete the 5 piece and dealing damage with Chilling Torch again, you can see I deal 1040 damage instead of 964. If we do 1.08* more damage in the Player % damage section of the calculation (where it would end up), this is also spitting out 1040 end damage, so the 8% works.
If we repeatedly spam Chilling Torch to get a Chill proc, which has a 5% base chance per hit of occuring (but likely lowered as this is a multi-hit skill lol), you will notice that there is no damage increase despite Frostbite's tooltip stating 4% should be added (additively, likely).
Next I tested Minor Brittle. By using Rune of the Colorless Pool (SoA skill line) I can guarantee it being applied, however this also applies minor vuln. I need to first test how much damage I deal with the same setup as previously, and then adding only minor vuln, which ends up as 1093 (which we can again verify using the damage calculation). I used the unmorphed skill for this, then I morphed it into giving brittle which would be the only difference. With brittle chilling torch did 1113 damage, which lines up with increasing 1.08 to 1.10.
Just to be overwhelmingly clear.
4piece Frostbite:
5piece Frostbite:
5piece frostbite with Chill proc (from 6-10seconds):
5piece Frostbite with Minor Vuln and Minor Brittle and Chilled:
This set has been out for a long time and this issue has been brought up on the forums and passed around via word of mouth for quite a while as well. I know the players who want to enjoy frost builds are a small but vocal minority, but I think the least we could expect is to have the sole good frost enabling set in the game at least work as intended. @BasP @ESO_Nightingale for your enjoyment as Warden enthusiasts.
Re: Why does Scorch hit for so much damage when it's an AoE that can roll-catch?
Avran_Sylt wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Its about the same as other delayed burst AoE skills, not really an outlier by any means. It actually deals less than 2 Blastbones.
Deep Fissure: 2591+3600 (6191 with both hits, missable but unpurgeable, plus about 9k pen)
Haunting Curse: 2999+2999 (5998 with both hits, unmissable but purgeable, don't need to aim)
Blastbones: 3600 + two instances of disease, so closer to 4000 (shorter timer, technically missable and dodgeable due to pet weirdness, don't need to aim). Two of these would be 7200 (plus 4 instances of disease since Blastbones bypasses the AoE disease cooldown).
Tentacular Dread: 2002 with 0 crux, 3984 with 3 crux (plus an additional 11% from ink, missable, not technically delayed so harder to line up with other skills). Two fully charged would be 7968 (+11% from ink)
The 2900-4000 range is the standard for delayed AoE burst abilities per hit. Unlike Blastbones and Curse, you need to be aimed at your target and mid range or closer with Shalks.
As you note, Blastbones is jank, can be killed before it lands, can get stunned, odd pathing not letting it line up with other burst effectively, but it's well-telegraphed with an actual NPC running towards you. Keep in mind that in your example you're casting it twice, so double the resource cost and add an action opportunity cost.
Haunting is well-telegraphed including a countdown viewable by you or your opponent if either are using UI debuff timers, and as you note cleansable. However unless you're a Sorc there's also the opportunity cost of not being able to take the Stormcalling subclass as well.
Deep Fissure is a source of Major Breach which amps all other damage sources including its second cast (also making your bar more slot efficient), isn't cleansable, with less easily visualized/tracked telegraphs, and as it's centered on you, the detonation zone is under your control, and not the opponent, even allowing surprise attacks. mid-range isn't as much of a concern anymore with subclassing and the availability of Streak through Stormcalling (where hey, you can get Major Resolve from Lightning Form too!)
Tentacular dread doesn't belong in this list as it has a prerequisite of casting crux generating skills, it is not free-form like the rest, heavily restricting the skills you can use.
Blastbones really isn't that jank anymore, I just wanted to note that it can technically be dodged with high enough movement speed.
Casting it twice is actually still LESS cost than casting Shalks once (about 2400 vs 2700). Yes, youre using twice the globals, but its a mu h stronger ability than Shalk's first hit, so you have more on demand burst as opposed to waiting the full duration for Shalk's second hit.
Also not sure why you're saying Tentacular doesn't belong here, because it absolutely does. Its the exact same idea, and having to generate crux is a non issue when Runeblades is an excellent spammable and scribing means you can generate crux while playing defensively no matter what skill lines you take.
Curse is still excellent, because while yes you can counterplay it, I think the fact that youre claiming Shalks has difficult counterplay (when it really doesn't) kinda shows that a lot of people can't or don't counter any of these abilities.
Shalks has counterplay. You just need to watch them and use your brain. The first hit has a very obvious glow, sound, and animation (throwing their hands down). Once you see the first hit pop, you just count the number of globals before the second hit.
I also find it weird that you point out blastbones jank but don't point out all the times when you get immobilized or stuck in a weird animation that causes Shalks to go off in a direction you don't want it to (oh hey, there's another counterplay to shalks!)
Stormcalling is also an opportunity cost BTW. Not everyone is going to have Streak because you're giving up a lot of healing power to do it; even if you're scribing your burst heal, you aren't getting any sort of healing passives from Storm, and if you're also taking a healing line, you're missing out on tons of damage by not taking 2 pure damage lines.
Shalks is fine. Yes, it is very strong, and may even be the best delayed burst ability, but that doesn't mean it's overtuned. The real thing that makes Animal Companions overtuned right now is that you're getting a free 20% sustain on top of a ton of flat resource return via Netch. This makes it undoubtedly one of the best options for any build just because it means you dont need to worry about sustain or because you can save a bar slot by not running Minor Recoveries on Contingency.
Re: More on the Microsoft lay offs, it's grim.
Why pay 100 people for ten years to develop a new IP when AI can do it in a year? Or six months? For a fraction of a fraction of the cost? The future of gaming is AI and what we're seeing here is the beginning of that. Heck, the future is AI period. Look at GTA6, ten years in development, 1-2 billion spent, and now that it might be close to release new technology has probably rendered parts of it obsolete before it even hits the market.
What remains to be seen in this context is whether or not the adoption of smart generative technology will be a net positive for us as consumers of ESO content or the death knell of a ten year old game with wonky unreliable servers. It could mean the beginning of a new era of content or it could mean bare bones maintenance mode as we limp towards the finish line. Only time will tell.
As a computer science guy, AI is not this glorious money making machine they think it is. It's not anywhere close to real AI either. News and hype around AI has been like this for decades, boom and bust. The same is gonna happen again.
Microsoft would be wise to keep their investments in many baskets, not betting all on the current AI hype. And generative AI is just a tool, without the human elements used to make the tool function, generative AI is useless. The problem is wealthy people aren't the smartest people, yet they're the ones making all the decisions. That's why the economy is gonna collapse again.
Re: Should there be a PvE only instance of Imperial City?
Only until the Imperial City story quests are complete. After that it should be fully PvP.
Obviously the Tel Var, Imperial Fragment, IC set drops and IC Dailies should be disabled for the PvE version.
Obviously the Tel Var, Imperial Fragment, IC set drops and IC Dailies should be disabled for the PvE version.
Re: Extremely Low Midyear Mayhem Turnout, Why?
What exactly are you looking for? I enjoy creating Pug groups about twice a week on PC/NA, but what are you looking for?
I don't know that I'm looking for any specific answers, although I'm not surprised by what the most common answer is. I've been pretty vocal lately about how subclassing was horrible for ESO PvP:
Yea almost no one PvPs at this point. On top of that, many of the people in Cyrodiil aren't even interested in PvP. A lot of them just want transmute crystals or they're more interested in siege than they are fighting other players. The number of people across all servers who still sweat PvP regularly is probably a low 2 digit number.
Subclassing will likely only worsen things in the future. The only somewhat positive thing I've seen about subclassing in PvP is that damage is higher this patch. I think what's really going on is that people with optimized subclass combinations are going against more casual players with weak subclass combinations. As a result, the difference in power between them is extreme because it's such an unbalanced system. So the newer or more casual players are dying more easily than ever due to the power gap. It might be fun for the more experienced players, but it's just going to lead to horrible entry rates and retention for everyone else.
Subclassing as a whole is really bad for casual players or new players looking to get into PvP or endgame PvE.
It adds another layer of complexity when it comes to making a build, which is already way more complex than it once was.
The power gap and the knowledge gap keeps growing as more build customization is allowed. I genuinely don’t know how a new player would make sense of the 100s of sets in the game, skill line combinations, scribing, traits, CP, and many other build elements and interactions without watching YouTube.
It’s an accessibility issue and it keeps PvP and endgame PvE communities small with low entry rates and poor retention. A properly specced player is literally like an emperor compared to a max leveled newer player doing their own thing.
ZOS is approaching accessibility the complete wrong way and they just don’t get it.
You can find many other comments I've left like that across different posts. A lot of people here just seem overwhelmed with making a PvP build, or they're noticing the insane power gap in the game right now. Like I said, it's an accessibility issue and it's not healthy for PvP, I want ZOS to understand that.
What I think ZOS should take away from Vengeance is that people will be more likely to participate when there isn't a massive power gap and when there's very low barriers to entry. People will tolerate a skill gap, but a power gap is just a sign of a broken game.
Stamicka
4
Re: Anyone else getting wrong info for crafting research? Resolved, ty
I've had similar encounters, but I find that using a crafting station seems to update research progresses
nadrokal
1
Re: Extremely Low Midyear Mayhem Turnout, Why?
MorallyBipolar wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Vonnegut2506 wrote: »Because I can't be tasked to do activities I don't enjoy just for some item in a video game, and I would guess many people feel the same way about PvP.
I understand. There’s a significant amount of players who participated in Midyear Mayhem in the past, but didn’t participate this time though.
I’m not sure if they quit or what, but it’s a very noticeable drop off. It’s pretty interesting to see from a game design perspective. I’m wondering what’s led to such a dramatic change this time.
Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.
Thank you.
This isn't the mic drop you hope it is. Anybody who PvPs on a regular basis knows the population is next to nothing compared to past MYM events. There was a time when U50 was pop locked during this event. Blackwater Blade days. When you don't need to queue into an alternate campaign while waiting to get into GH, there is no need to present data. It's crystal clear.
How do you explain that all three factions have been pop locked more than 20 hours/day since the event began? (PC NA Greyhost)
Devil's Advocate, but that's the standard population.
Usually during MYM, you also see Blackreach and Ravenwatch at capacity for most of the day, and only the 7-day campaigns are only on one or two bars.
If people at primetime can get into Blackreach without a queue, that's a sure sign that there are way fewer people than normal.
---
On topic: I think it's two things - 1) We just had the Vengeance test and a Golden Pursuit around that, so your standard "I-only-PvP-when-there's-an-event-encouraging-me-to-do-so" crowd is already burnt out. 2) Subclassing is making is so your non-pro PvPers are getting deleted even faster than normal, and they don't tend to care enough to come back and try with a better build when they could just leave and not bother with a mode they don't like.
tomofhyrule
12
Re: Future of Battlegrounds
Major_Mangle wrote: »An objective queue would be completely dead within a month. The moment people get whatever associated achievements there are they'll never touch that queue again, and no actual PvP:er that genuinely want to PvP will actively queue for objective modes. This happened with the original queue system where people stopped queuing for the objective modes once they had the achievements.
It's bad map/objective design, not bad game mode.
In simple shooting games it's usually more engaging to have CTF than TDM, because you have to focus on the right opponents instead of whoever have lowest health.
In 3 teams fight, chaos ball was often good if the ball holder wasn't hiding and/or running in max speed.
And ESO still needs something that can attract new players, not just regular PvP players.
Yes, three-teams Chaosball could've been made incredibly fun simply by capping the speed of the ball carrier and fixing the cheesy places.
My idea for revamping Capture the Relic is similar to what you mentioned about shooting games CTF, and inspired by this particular situation:
Here are the problems with the gamemode:
- Standing around guarding a relic is boring.
- Pointlessly parsing a tank who is guarding a relic is boring.
- Having your relic stolen through the wall, or because the grabbing animation didn't play correctly is boring.
And here's how it could have been fixed:
A player from each team would be randomly selected as the ''relic holder'', and the goal of the match would be to kill the other team's holder while protecting your own. When this player died the relic would select one of their teammates as its new vessel and jump to them after 30 seconds. (This player would obviously need to be ejected from spawn after a period of time.)
The game mode would function like an extremely high level Deathmatch from the olden days, but with training wheels. Imagine a 3 teams DM, but the softest target of every team is being indicated by the relic. In the worst possible scenario, the two stronger teams would be compelled to fight in the spawn of the softer team, but because of the relic's debuff, this fight would never stalemate to the point of not being worth it. They would fight, relic holders would die, jump to other players, and the new holders would die too. It would be impossible to trap the softer team.
The game mode would function like an extremely high level Deathmatch from the olden days, but with training wheels. Imagine a 3 teams DM, but the softest target of every team is being indicated by the relic. In the worst possible scenario, the two stronger teams would be compelled to fight in the spawn of the softer team, but because of the relic's debuff, this fight would never stalemate to the point of not being worth it. They would fight, relic holders would die, jump to other players, and the new holders would die too. It would be impossible to trap the softer team.
Re: Extremely Low Midyear Mayhem Turnout, Why?
We had a Golden Pursuit for PvP earlier this month with the Vengeance Campaign which might be a bit of a factor.
I think you'd also find that for some people Vengeance offers a better PvP experience than Mayhem and as such would rather wait for it to come back again rather than spending a bunch of time playing in Mayhem.
I think you'd also find that for some people Vengeance offers a better PvP experience than Mayhem and as such would rather wait for it to come back again rather than spending a bunch of time playing in Mayhem.
Re: Extremely Low Midyear Mayhem Turnout, Why?
Several reasons for me. Definitely nothing to do with Vengeance. I'd love to be PvPing during this event, but the game is too laggy and subclassing has made the sort of impression I dreaded it would.
It's far too laggy for me in game generally, which rules Cyro out because larger battles will freeze me up beyond being able to do something or have fun. BGs are less laggy but certainly not good for fighting in.
I'm on a pure build meeting opponent teams that often have zoo builds which also seems to bring lag and subclass builds that hit a lot harder than I can. I'm not interested in subclassing just for an event. Even if I was, I wouldn't make a build just now, as we're still testing Vengeance and getting "balance" changes to combat skills/gear. I'm not interested in constantly changing builds and re-making them.
What does worry me is even when I win battles in BGs and do well on my pure classes, PvP just isn't fun. It's just even lamer overpowered templates and far too many pets. I say that as a player who always likes pets and PvPs with them. I'm genuinely embarrassed to have a Warden when I see the zoo builds cluttering up a fight.
I might try my NB in IC for a bit and see how that goes. But I think PvP is about done for me now, even if I subclassed it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. A year ago I was having a lot more fun even with the imbalances we had and lag.
It's far too laggy for me in game generally, which rules Cyro out because larger battles will freeze me up beyond being able to do something or have fun. BGs are less laggy but certainly not good for fighting in.
I'm on a pure build meeting opponent teams that often have zoo builds which also seems to bring lag and subclass builds that hit a lot harder than I can. I'm not interested in subclassing just for an event. Even if I was, I wouldn't make a build just now, as we're still testing Vengeance and getting "balance" changes to combat skills/gear. I'm not interested in constantly changing builds and re-making them.
What does worry me is even when I win battles in BGs and do well on my pure classes, PvP just isn't fun. It's just even lamer overpowered templates and far too many pets. I say that as a player who always likes pets and PvPs with them. I'm genuinely embarrassed to have a Warden when I see the zoo builds cluttering up a fight.
I might try my NB in IC for a bit and see how that goes. But I think PvP is about done for me now, even if I subclassed it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. A year ago I was having a lot more fun even with the imbalances we had and lag.
