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Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Alright this is getting silly. Why are y’all summoning people like it’s a yugioh battle?
I’m just going to wait for official responses/changes at this point. It’s hard to take this argument seriously!
Another piece of feedback while I’m here; move the extra speed from rampage into the passive (while also increasing the speed cap for werebeasts), then replace it with a snare immunity. Werewolves being terrible against bad terrain doesn’t make much sense to me, you see.
I’m just going to wait for official responses/changes at this point. It’s hard to take this argument seriously!
Another piece of feedback while I’m here; move the extra speed from rampage into the passive (while also increasing the speed cap for werebeasts), then replace it with a snare immunity. Werewolves being terrible against bad terrain doesn’t make much sense to me, you see.
Ataskir
9
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Can we move on from this talk of balancing around dueling and move on to different feedback? This thread feels completely hijacked at this point around one specific discussion.
Has anyone been trying any Combat Metrics to even see where werewolves line up with other setups? Can they actually deal damage to bring to trials?
I was hitting 122k - 140k dps with various class Mastery/ subclassing combos.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
I've never said that? If that's what other people say it's not something I can control - sorry if it bothers you and your friends.
But this is what you said in another thread:
Did you mean "top theorycrafter" as in one of the best or "the best"? Because I understood it as you claiming yourself to be the best theorycrafter.
Shame you didn't screenshot the context to this deleted forum exchange, because I believe it was a tongue in cheek response to a similarily ridiculous statement, just with the "by results" added in since none of you can ever type that.
I hope you also understand the irony of you making this statement after all the elitism on this thread - in the end it's just what you/your friends think of each other, not something backed up by anything competitive.
React, Alchemist, and Pelican have all participated in dueling tournaments on PC NA in the past and individually won a few tourneys. I have also won a 40 million gold tournament in 2021 on my stamsorc vs a stacked pool of competitors when I still did tourneys.
I'm not going to address people not part of this conversation, but you're telling me you've won one tournament... 5 years ago. On NA. Ok, congrats.
Also, what elitism? I've never called anyone bad in the thread lol. I've simply stated 2 things that are objectively valid:
1) Most people are not good enough to play WW to its fullest potential.
Are you? Have you actually played werewolf? Or the people you keep referencing? I played one half the PvP event in January/February, it's actually one of the most difficult playstyles to pull off on Live.
2) Are people qualified enough to provide an unbiased opinion on combat balance?
Are you? You've won one tournament in 2021 and other than that it's just a bunch of friends calling you "the best stamina sorcerer" or whatever.
When it comes to combat balance, you can't just take an opinion of a seasoned PvPer with deep understanding of the game and weigh it the same as someone who barely does PvP or doesn't have that kind of knowledge or mechanics. None of these are elitist by nature, they're just common sense. I don't comment on PvE threads because I'm not a good PvEr. If some guy says Sorc should be nerfed in PvE because it's doing 200k+ DPS and has the evidence to prove it, I'm not going to disagree with him just because I can't personally do 200k DPS.
The problem is that most of the "seasoned PvPers" only play whatever is the strongest build at that moment and have a strong interest in maintaining status quo or seeing other builds and playstyles weakened/unbuffed. Having limited experience playing other builds also means you lack critical insight on how those other playstyles and builds function, where their strengths and weaknesses lie and so on.
People who won a tournament half a decade ago farming squishies in Cyrodiil and telling each other they're the best players ever and everyone else is bad or clueless is precisely the elitism I'm referring to.
Decimus
10
Re: It Appears Grey Host and Vengeance Will Exist Side by Side After All. Thoughts?
Such great commentary here and really getting to the heart of Gray Host's current position. From PS5 NA perspective here is how things will probably play out. Currently in Gray Host you have a group of people who manage the map, use bar code ID's to ghost themselves and impersonate other players all whilst accepting huge amounts of gold to ensure that win to the highest bidder. This has been a thing for awhile now and has escalated in the last two months since February 2026 where this type of bad behavior is blatant and brazen that everyone knows but no one has the courage to address it, unfortunately it is an accepted rot to the system because ZOS see this type of thing as a grey area. I am all for the new system of Vengeance and gaining rewards and passives to enhance your skills and builds within Vengeance Campaign. Newer players can also enjoy this mode of PVP better than being one shot by ball groups ruining gameplay in Gray Host. Eventually if Gray Host dries up this same rot will start to infiltrate Vengeance, they probably already planning a systematic business arrangement to use collusion and gate keep this map to subsequently get their pockets lined with further massive gold/token payments. I have already brought this up in a previous forum post [Collusion & Match Fixing & Potential Real Money/Gold Trading on Playstation NA Gray Host campaign] I have also reached out to ZOS devs. If anything after playing ESO since 2015 and always being aware of the health of the game in PVE and PVP it is a physical pain to see the slow degradation of Gray Host PS5 NA. It is my best wish to see ESO get better, it's such a beautiful game and I have so many memories (good & bad) I'm one of the small people out there who wholeheartedly just want to see things improve. I, even after so many doubts in my mind still have faith in the developers to do the right thing and see and root out the real rot and clean up to make it better for those legitimate people out there.
Re: Werewolf ‘class mastery’ suggestion
Honestly, yes. Just throwing this idea out there, but having Werewolves select their own passives and, in addition, a few passives based on your current class could be interesting. I would also disable class line passives and put more power into those werewolf passives, because people are just going to gravitate toward the same class lines again, and we don’t know what the next class reworks are going to look like.
So, for example, in addition of the current werewolf passives, you could select 2 out of 5 werewolf specific passives for build diversity like the current pure class passive system, and another passive selection of 1-2 out of 3-4 based on your current class. So yeah a lot of passives there. These could even be in the same passive line page if possible or even altogether and let you choose if you want those class passives or not.
These passive could also have stats line(s) linked to them as well to make up for class lines loss/weapon passive loss, that would be similar across the classes and could make it easier to balance.
Imagine a Necro werewolf summoning dead werewolves to fight by their side during Blood Rage. Or a Sorc werewolf having a 50% chance during Blood Rage to transform Rip and Tear into a shock ranged bite attack (similar to Crystal Frag). Each class could even have a special innate passive interacting with Blood Rage. There are so many opportunities here. Also like dealing physical/elemental status effect on light/heavy attacks based on your class, etc. Having similar werewolf passives with class identity could be a nice touch to all of this and bring more diversity to werewolf gameplay.
And once all done then they could be revisited for buffs and nerfs without affecting the class directly.
This seems like a lot and someone mentioned ZoS not having the man power for something like this but the current pure class passives seem designed with their own class in mind, not with werewolf in mind, and not going in another direction will lead to class favoritism like we currently have, I've never seen a nightblade werewolf or necro, arcanist.
So, for example, in addition of the current werewolf passives, you could select 2 out of 5 werewolf specific passives for build diversity like the current pure class passive system, and another passive selection of 1-2 out of 3-4 based on your current class. So yeah a lot of passives there. These could even be in the same passive line page if possible or even altogether and let you choose if you want those class passives or not.
These passive could also have stats line(s) linked to them as well to make up for class lines loss/weapon passive loss, that would be similar across the classes and could make it easier to balance.
Imagine a Necro werewolf summoning dead werewolves to fight by their side during Blood Rage. Or a Sorc werewolf having a 50% chance during Blood Rage to transform Rip and Tear into a shock ranged bite attack (similar to Crystal Frag). Each class could even have a special innate passive interacting with Blood Rage. There are so many opportunities here. Also like dealing physical/elemental status effect on light/heavy attacks based on your class, etc. Having similar werewolf passives with class identity could be a nice touch to all of this and bring more diversity to werewolf gameplay.
And once all done then they could be revisited for buffs and nerfs without affecting the class directly.
This seems like a lot and someone mentioned ZoS not having the man power for something like this but the current pure class passives seem designed with their own class in mind, not with werewolf in mind, and not going in another direction will lead to class favoritism like we currently have, I've never seen a nightblade werewolf or necro, arcanist.
Re: Werewolf ultimate use
I guess, at a foundational level... what problem is the ultimate cost mechanic trying to solve?
It seems like a solution in search of a problem, TBH.
It obviously is intended for WWs to be able to sustain the form indefinitely. So why don't we just allow them to... do that... without having to jump through all of these artificial hoops?
It seems like a solution in search of a problem, TBH.
It obviously is intended for WWs to be able to sustain the form indefinitely. So why don't we just allow them to... do that... without having to jump through all of these artificial hoops?
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
huskandhunger wrote: »For all of those asking for video proof of WW overperforming, here you go. Keep in mind that some of the players in this video are genuinely amongst the top pvp players in the entire game, getting absolutely obliterated with almost no chance of fighting back at all by a guy weaving two damaging skills with light attacks and 40k hp.
There is no defending how broken this is.https://youtu.be/zYtbITjCW-4?si=geC3xCf8s0W9IhWw
This person is covering up their ability bar and add-ons, so I think this video is disingenuous. We would need full transparency if something is really going on otherwise who is to say this player is not simply exploiting---either in sets or in class mastery passives or other interactions we haven't thought of, those appear to be the real overpowered element.
His ability bar is visible the whole time. Addons don't change anything within the game.
I posted pelican's CMX in this thread showing what he was using anyways, but you guys told me it didn't prove anything and requested video evidence. Theres the video.
Remove the block squares, you are hiding information.
Also if you or your friends have encountered a specific bug or proc set interactions with Relequen and the Sorc Class Mastery passives that the videos appear to show are causing some kind of effect or issue in the game, I would encourage you both to use the in-game support feature to submit the bugs as a ticket.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
No, actually. This is again trying to gatekeep information that literally anyone has the capacity to ask for. You can't argue that people wanting WW to stay OP must be PvPers and anyone who doesn't PvP has no right to offer feedback. That is bias to its core, locking people out of something because they don't meet your expectation of qualification.And to clarify any misconceptions or assumptions, I personally don't PvP. I can count on one hand the number of times I've dueled and I haven't touched the other facets of PvP in years. I don't want WW to remain OP in PvP. What I do want is WW not getting nerfed for PvP because some people think the whole playstyle is OP based on ONE build in ONE aspect ov PvP.
.....So let me get this straight. You spent 10 pages arguing with me, @React, @Alchimiste1 who are seasoned PvPers, yet you don't personally PvP?
You are taking a stance in a subject matter which you have zero knowledge on. I'm sorry, but this is where we should stop.
Did you read the rest of what I posted? It's happened time and again in this game that nerfs from PvP also affect PvE because all too often ZOS won't put adjustments under Battle Spirit or something. So yeah, when those of us who PvE are at risk of something that's FINALLY getting a really good rework after YEARS of being crap getting nerfed, we have every right to ask for proof that it's overperforming as much as some people are claiming.
And it's not even that big of an ask, so why are we acting like it's an unreasonable request that's impossible to fulfill? Why this insistence on NOT testing WW on any other build or even just without the Sorc Mastery Passives? Why is such a simple thing being fought so vehemently? Why are we acting like people have to PvP to want an answer that should be easy peasy to provide?
Open Skills on Sorc. Go to Class Mastery. Remove Passives. Smack people around. Post the results.
Why is this being treated like an insurmountable task? If I were one of the people claiming WW overall is too OP, I'd be SCRAMBLING to make a build without those Passives and toss out there proof that WW is indeed as OP without them as it is with. And unlike a number of people in the world, I have no issue admitting if I'm wrong. So if we get any sort of build of WW without the Sorc Mastery Passives that are potentially a problem, then I will say sure, WW can do with altering. But until then I will continue to ask for said proof, as is my right as someone that plays the game.
Arunei
4
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Can we make it so the glow only appears during combat.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Can we move on from this talk of balancing around dueling and move on to different feedback? This thread feels completely hijacked at this point around one specific discussion.
Has anyone been trying any Combat Metrics to even see where werewolves line up with other setups? Can they actually deal damage to bring to trials?
There are 160k+ parses floating around w/ Signet and Sorc.
I'll just drop this here:https://youtu.be/a1qiAMlAO-E?si=Dl4pOa_mCssK9HtX
Werewolf might not be the problem people think it is...
This isn't the evidence that you think it is.
It is just basic Sorcerer parse cheese which you can find basically every patch. Those "insane" builds are never actually run in content though because all of the damage is single-target and that just is not very valuable in most situations.
The re-worked class set is also doing huge work here but the set is similarly not viable in most PvE environments and is absolutely dead in PvP.
It's not super obvious from the video so I'll explain:
The class set alone (which I think is fantastic - big fan of all the class set changes, though templar ones could be stronger still) isn't enough to provide a 70K+ DPS increase compared to pure sorcerer prior to this - the cause of this is the sorcerer class masteries... the same reason why certain werewolf builds overperform (on top of sorcerer already having much better class passives for werewolf than say, warden or necromancer etc).
You can notice how the sorcerer in the video has 40 751 Stamina - this provides you with a 23% modifier on weapon/spell damage applied on top of group buffs (Minor/Major Courage etc) resulting in a huge increase in damage... including the damage of the other class mastery that is doing 9,8% in the CMX parse you can find at the end of the video.
So what does this have to do with werewolf? Well, werewolf similarly gains much more from sorcerer class masteries than any other class ones. While you might find strong werewolf builds out there on other classes, you won't find ones that are grossly overperforming.
Also I just want to mention: based on my experience testing it and fighting people using it on PTS, the sorcerer class set is far from "dead" in PvP and actually extremely strong if built around.
Decimus
4