Mag sorc needs to have consistent ways of stacking max mag. A class that relies on shields with no heals needs big shields..
Do not make these dark magic changes as it only nerfs mag sorc more.

Buff frags dmg, increase max mag on deadric summoning, potentially add small heal to ward. /

I'm not sure the "shuffling power experiment" will work out as intended.

If a good/strong class line has some of its power shuffled to a weak/unpopular line, the result will be two average lines. Each line is competing against 20 other alternatives. We've already ditched class identity with sub-classing. Why would I hang on to a nerfed/shuffled line rather than just replacing it with something stronger?

Obligatory Necromancer-awareness post to once again ask that Corpse Consumption not be treated the same as the other mundane class ult-gen passives.

We see special treatment given to Catalyst, and Corpse Consumption, with its own mini-game mechanic, is much more akin to Catalyst than it is to the other "Cast a skill, get X" class passives.

Remember that it was also already randomly nerfed in U46 for reasons that continue to escape me.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.

Bingo, the some classes were designed to be clear and easy to learn with a clear damage, tank, heals line. Now they would have to be rebalanced such that each line offers the trinity on its own to convey a playstyle. Otherwise there is nothing stopping us from slotting 3x highly efficient damage lines like Animal, Assassin, Aedric spear

As for the more original base classes they need to be altered to have stand alone skill lines that can operate on their own. Stormcalling as a good example having raw responsive damage, healing while aggressive, and tankiness from mobility which pairs well with the responsive damage. Dark magic is the bad example, where it gets damage from frags, but the general playstyle of a frags magsorc normally needs mages wrath, curse, and ward to function. Daedric summoning also falls flat on damage, The damage morphs of pets could be reworked to pair up better or if ward/curse got traded with encase/mines, A skill like encase on petsorc could be used as a temporary pet buff or pet attack skill.

I mean it feels like a uniquely sorc issue at this point tbh. Nightblade and Dragonknight are both pretty much segmented between DPS/Tank/Heal(Utility) and Templar has a very obvious heal line with two strong DPS lines (one of which is kinda tank oriented). Sorc is just a jumble of junk spread across 3 lines that is usable but worse than other classes in every facet.

So i did some sorc testng on PTS. Forgive the long post.

Firstly, "pure" sorc with crystal frags vs bound armaments

Frags parse


bound arms parse


build. I literally just swapped bound arms and frags.


Bound arms does basically the same damage, but it gets +5k dps from sundered procs. You can't see it, but the frags sundered proc was 800dps.

You can also see the blood magic uptime, the higher max magicka and how little that matters.

Blood magic


There is no reason for this passive to require activation. 10% max resource is nice, but it's hardly super powerful. I don't know why it needs to be conditional.

Secondly dropping dark magic entirely for aedric spear.



I want to note, I didn't slot or use any skills from aedric spear. This is exactly the same build, just trading out dark magic for aedric spear.

Finally, going all in on "pure" mag sorc




This is easily the highest dps I've managed on a straight up mag sorc build. Granted i've done it with a stam spammable, but i'm sure the same numbers would be achiveable with frags as spammable, i just hate the 0.8s cast time.

I'm not going to lie, I feel like this build is the best example of how class balance *should* work with subclassing. Every skill line you take out costs you something.
Arcanist and necromancer are the worst examples.

An Arcanist dps has literally no reason to keep Soldier of Apocrypha or Curative Runeforms. In fact, if they do keep them, they are doing it wrong.

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.