Best Of
Re: What is PVE DPS meta now (u47)
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »tomofhyrule wrote: ».tomofhyrule wrote: »One of the biggest problems in ESO is exactly this mindset. Too many players think they have to follow whatever setup the meta or esologs shows, and ZOS keeps ignoring how unhealthy that is for the game.
If you want to play a Nightblade, just play it. Enjoy the class and the game itself. Chasing numbers only because “that’s what DPS charts say” is nothing but fake power at the cost of your own fun. That’s why so many players burn out, they stop enjoying the game for what it actually offers and instead just follow whatever DPS addon or parse video is trendy.
I’m honestly glad I stopped putting money into this game, because until ZOS starts encouraging choice instead of funneling everyone into the same cookie-cutter builds, the community will keep repeating the same cycle.
EDIT:
I saw someone say this about D4 to Blizzard: "Why don’t you just let the game die? You’ve completely lost the essence of D4."
Well, I feel the same;
ZoS, Can you stop with all the nonsense you’ve created around the Elder Scrolls just to squeeze out maximum profit? If you truly don’t care about the spirit of the game anymore, then just let it die, close the servers. The Elder Scrolls deserves far better than this.
I don't know, man... I tend to blame the players - if someone wants to forever chase the META that's on him...
Maybe bad take on my part but it's just my opinion.
I am so tired of hearing this "hot take." It basically belongs in the same bin as "oh, you have a stomachache? Well, that's your fault since you could drink arsenic and then your stomachache would go away really fast!" It's one of those 'fixes' that doesn't really solve any problems at all.
Look, this is not TES6. This is an MMO. That means other people are around. And that means that if you're doing endgame PvP or PvE, you cannot go into the way you want to play and expect to have any success without acknowledging the meta. Because either way, if you're coming in with something non-meta, you will be facing others who do have the meta, and you will be compared to them.
Now of course a meta will always exist. But pre U46, it was not this bad. Yes, trial teams were primarily Arcanists, but there was always a slot or two for a support DPS like an MKSorc or Z'enDK or Templar beam bot, and even things like a Corpseburster Necro outDPSed the Arcanists. Trials always had a Warden healer, but the other could be a Templar or Sorc or NB ore really anything but a DK. DK Tanks were generally good, but there were times that Sorc or Necro tanks were better choices.
And now: "If you are a DPS, these are your three lines. If you are a healer, here are the two setups. If you are a tank, here are the two setups." Basically no variety anymore.
The fact that in U46-47 there's one meta to rule them all is a game problem, not a player problem. If that one specific meta weren't so much more powerful than anything else, then people would be able to bring something else. But even the best player in the world would do better on the meta setup than on whatever they wanted to bring, and that's just indicative of a terribly balanced game.
I've noticed that the people who make the "lol just don't play meta!" argument tend to avoid PvP or endgame PvE or group play in general, and mostly stick to soloing everything. They tend to think of ESO as their TES6 proxy. And they love that they can make whatever build they want since their gameplay doesn't depend on others. But the players who are involved in endgame do have more issues with being shoehorned into one setup because nothing else even comes close to that. After all, look at the responses from the "how did you feel about U46?" thread - most of the people who are not happy with Subclassing talk about how they do endgame content and how they're being forced to play one specific combo to remain competitive, whereas most of the people who are happy talk about how they can solo things they couldn't before and how they can now make their elementalist or zookeeper a reality.
If your end game is making the leader board then you need the meta build. Competitive battle grounds you also for the most part need a meta build. If you are in a guild that has dueling competitions and you take it serious you need a meta build.
Nothing else in the game needs a meta build. It hasn't for a very long time. So if your end game isn't battle grounds, leader boards or dueling you don't need a meta for your end game.
Obviously you need meta for leaderboards. I'm not talking about that. And yes, even HMs (and even some trifectas) can be done off meta. Everyone knows that, and I've even done some of them.
But there's one thing that your argument (which is also the devs' viewpoint!) loves to forget: you can't solo a vet trial with a bungh of NPCs. You have to find groups for that, and that means you're at the mercy of whatever the raid lead wants. And as much as you can say "hey, I'm actually really good with my setup," they're perfectly at liberty to cut you and roster someone else instead.
So... that means that if you want to play off-meta, you're left with PUGs (which does not offer a high chance of completing high-level things like HMs), and even in standard vets you'll have people demand you get kicked for not beaming.
That's the problem. There are very few places that actively allow people to come in with an off-meta setup, and especially now that the power difference between a meta build and an off-meta build is so large. In a perfect world, there would be a very small difference (or even better, the 'easy build anyone can do' would not be as strong as the 'technically challenging build that only a few people can master') and more playstyles would be welcome.
But as I've always asked anytime someone gave this argument, and never yet have gotten an answer for: please list the Discords for trial groups doing HMs that allow players to bring off-meta builds for the benefit of players who want to do high-level content but not play the one single meta.
Seems all the "you don't have to play meta!" people actually don't know where you can reasonably go to play high level content without playing meta...
That may be true that's a player toxicity issue more than a game issue.
If raid leads are so narrow-minded and uncreative in their thinking then they probably aren't the folk whom you want to be following anyway.
If a raid leader told me, "It's Beam Or Bust!" then I would tell them, "Bye, Felicia!"
Most of the raid leads I know comp their own runs. They come up with what they want because they believe it will be effective. It is the culture at the higher tiers of raiding this way, and everyone who goes into the higher tiers of raiding eventually conforms (even if they don't want to) because they learn that you do need to hit certain metrics to do things the way you want to do them.
And sometimes hitting those metrics and doing it that way is easier than slogging it out with a bunch of people on off meta builds.
You can play the way you want up to a certain point, but if you want to do the hardest content nearly everyone winds up gravitating towards the meta for that specific content for a reason.
Sure, but the frequency of people complaining about being gate-kept by blinkered leads far outstrips the vanishingly tiny actually end-game raiding community, most of whom you could probably fit into one in-game Friends List per server.
It's like a form of mimicry that leads lower down on the totem pole emulate likely without even knowing why they are doing it or why certain things are or are not chosen. It's like when people ask for meta builds and then run them terribly because they have no idea how any of it fits together or it is simply too far above their skill level to handle (admittedly, this latter scenario was more the case prior to Arcanist...).
So yeah, sure, if someone is actually progging a Trifecta for a recent trial then I can understand and accept that. But that isn't the situation where most people encounter that blinkered mentality because most people never sniff that level of raiding. If you join a random Group Finder vTrial and get kicked for not being a Beamer then that leader is being a toolbag, full-stop.
Re: Players
edit:
Even when I reply to someone on this forum, all I can think is: "Well, this will probably be my last post, because I’ll get banned." So tell me, what’s left for players here? We can’t even speak our minds anymore.
I can no longer speak freely. After some events in the past, I was permanently banned from the forum, then miraculously reinstated, but with a warning not to continue as before. So I only chime in on trivial matters, or I remain silent.
Re: Suggestion: Playable Daedra Race
Would be fun to mess around with, but I think it's impractical for the game. A Daedra isn't going to give a damn what happens to mortals in most of the zones. About the only place it would even make sense is in the Deadlands being aligned with the Daedra in Wretched Spire.
All Inn rooms are not equal. Larger rooms should have higher item limits.
There are many different sized Inn rooms. Some of the older ones are pretty small and very easy to fill up with the 30 item limit. But some of the newer ones are as big as some of the one room houses, and it's a struggle to make them look filled in.
Houses have differing amounts of slots based on how big they are. I believe Inn rooms should, too.
Please consider increasing the item limit up to 60 for the larger Inn rooms.
Houses have differing amounts of slots based on how big they are. I believe Inn rooms should, too.
Please consider increasing the item limit up to 60 for the larger Inn rooms.
DOTs Retroactively Apply
So I was running through Pridehome in Southern Elsweyr. I have the Shadow Rider perk, so I don't think too much about running by enemies. The aggro mechanics in this game are easily the worst part, and I figure if one or two actually see me, I'll let them do their awful janky little tap me and run away dance like they always have to do for zero good design reason. I arrive at the Pridehome wayshrine on my fully upgraded rockethorse and wait the requisite 40 seconds of obligatory "How dare you not fight literally every red dot on the map" punishment as this single adept catches up to me and tap me like the worst game of tag ever invented.
Whereupon I went from having full health to instantly dead.
I don't think any individual overworld trash mob in the game is intended to do 29k damage in an instant. As far as I can determine, after the New Moon Flame Adept reached me, the game retroactively applied all dot damage from Flash Surge to me from the point at which it had aggroed onto me, regardless of the fact it could not physically do that. Damage over time abilities should not work this way. Ever. There is something deeply wrong with the game's design if this is at all possible.
Whereupon I went from having full health to instantly dead.
I don't think any individual overworld trash mob in the game is intended to do 29k damage in an instant. As far as I can determine, after the New Moon Flame Adept reached me, the game retroactively applied all dot damage from Flash Surge to me from the point at which it had aggroed onto me, regardless of the fact it could not physically do that. Damage over time abilities should not work this way. Ever. There is something deeply wrong with the game's design if this is at all possible.
xencthlu
6
Re: Can we revert oakensoul/buff it, now that subclass is a thing?
Reverting the destro passives would help, but I don't know that they actually fixed the pvp issues with it. It kind of seemed they just nerfed it to bandage the issue.
Re: Please nerf Null Arca in PvP
No. Null Acra is just fine. This is like the flimsy campaign earlier this year by duelists who wanted Relequen nerfed.
Stop trying to nerf strong PVE sets because the set showed up in a death recap in Cyrodiil.
Stop trying to nerf strong PVE sets because the set showed up in a death recap in Cyrodiil.
Re: Should Desync Causing CC be Removed in PvP?
Displacement is often worse than a stun, and is nearly always a punch-down by a large group against a solo, since only the larger force can spare players to do something as otherwise useless as spamming chain pulls.
Re: Storm Calling Mages' Fury Execute Range Needs Buffed
MincMincMinc wrote: »The animation is an instant cast, it is no different than any other instant cast. It plays and cancels the same. Just remember that secretly it is a projectile skill.
Not exactly, instant just means what's suppose to happen, happens when you press the key instead of requiring a channel or cast time first. It does not mean it instantly lands. Wrecking Blow has a 0.8s cast time, then instantly hits. Fury has a 0.0s cast time, but has a massive delay before it hits, even in melee range.
There's 2 terms important here I'll use:
- Projectile Speed (PS) = speed at which the projectile travels through the air to your target, eg, 28 meters per second.
- Minimum projectile travel time (MPTT) = a locked in time that the projectile must complete before landing, even if the caster is right on top of the target. This is implemented case by case, most likely as a balancing/counterplay design choice.
MPTT is the reason why some players may prefer a melee over a ranged playstyle without realizing it. Why does Impale feel less reliable than Killer's Blade for a melee player? Why does your instant Frag miss more often than not when following up Streak vs something like Executioner? Why is Mage's Fury the absolute worst feeling execute in the game outside of spamming it from a back of zerg back when it had a 5s duration? MPTT is why.
From my memory of like 2016 patch notes, a general feeling, and some light testing, the average MPTT is between 0.2s to 0.3s. This whole MPTT thing is why not all instant ranged abilites feel equally as satisifying to cast, most likely because not all ranged skills have the same travel time or animations, thus the hit detection can feel weird, and even effect your weaving. Something like Crushing Shock has historically been praised, while Swallow Soul has been complained about as a good example.
Give or take some mileseconds, human input, and ping, you can work out what's going on here. Keep in mind to -1s between each damage instance to get the actual delays due to the Global Cooldown. Also, I did not do this multiple times, nor did I use a macro, these would be required to get more accurate numbers.
- Impale has 0.3s MPTT vs the instant 0.0s hit of Killer's Blade.
- Crystal Frag has 0.5s MPTT, making it 0.2s slower than Impale, and based on the 1.1s it took to land at 28m, it travels at 25m a second.
- Mage's Fury has 0.8s MPTT, at 28m it does not change so it does not seem to have PS at all or if it does, it's insanely fast to give the appearance of the damage teleporting. My guess is it's just insanely fast so that it can still be absorbed by something like Ball of Lightning. If it actually teleported to the caster, then BOL wouldn't work, although I haven't actually tested this.
This is why Mage's Fury feels bad the closer you are to your target, because it doesn't land any easier, it just makes it easier to counter.
Imagine a situation where you Fossilze, then follow up with Executioner, Killer's Blade, or Whirling Blades, the target would have about 1.0s to react, replace that with Mage's Fury and they have 1.8s, +80% more time to break free, and roll dodge. This is why despite being conceptually a cool ability I'd love to use even though I find it very weak, I can't, it's just way too unreliable.
If I were to improve the feeling, I'd start by lowering the MPTT from 0.8s to 0.3s, then introducing a real PS so range matters. Frag's feels quite slow, and even it takes 1.1s at 28m meaning Mage's Fury only becomes beneficial at 20m or above.
Re: Ways to nerf arcanist beam
easy solution, stop using it ! because its not overpowered in everyones hands. but sure yes it lets people talk louder but in the end arcanists are still joining groups and making the exact same difference with beam than any other class i see playing other skills, sometimes no differece at all. and sure theres nothing wrong with stocking up on cheese every now and again but it does not mean absolutely everyone nibbles at it, for example i have not even got to logging in on my sorc since subclassing but you can be 100% sure you wont be seeing any beam or necro skills being added in the future to his skill sets. we were told clearly at subclassing that extreme power options would now be available to satisfy peoples power fantasies or just simply play as you want with a completely down to earth build ! but from what i have seen even without beam and becoming half necro my sorc is still going to fit into groups just fine. and to me its just plain wierd thats its totally cool to post vids of CR+3 clears in crazy times like 1 minute using no portals even before arcanist was born yet plenty people still progging it with arcs without a clear yet, just things like that yes it was pretty neat and cool but so are arcanists
whatever will happen with it lets just hope its soon and fast so we can get on gaming in a straight line again for a while
This. It gets old when any other form of dps even comes close(not surpassing, just close) to weaving/AC and it's page after page of nerf calling. Yes, I've read all the arguments over the years, mostly it's "that thing over there that doesn't affect me is too easy and they need to spend hours in front of a dummy like I did". Sets, skills, even whole playstyle(ww at one time. HA sorcs, etc) I can wiggle my fingers just fine, it just isn't a huge matter of pride that I think it should be the ONLY way. A good weave beats everything, but even if it didn't? Let people play their way. Things get nerfed enough as it is but we're always begging Zos to smack us some more. Doesn't make sense.
But good weaving doesn't do more damage right now, that's the whole point why people are upset currently. You have to do twice the work and get half the reward if you aren't beaming in AoE fights, which is most of the fights in the game. "That thing over there that doesn't affect me" does affect me, because if you care about your performance, you have exactly two builds you can play right now, because they are so far ahead of everything else. I get that not everyone cares about performance, but if that's the case, why wouldn't you be okay if things were actually balanced? You can enjoy beaming and I think it should stay as a lower performing, but still valid option, not as the best in slot for 99% of content for the vast majority of groups.
