I concede that some players find overland extremely easy. What I don't get is how some people on this forum can claim that there is no one or only very few players who find it otherwise when many players in this very discussion thread have already shared their own or friends' experiences supporting the claim that overland is not too easy for everyone. Can we at least agree that difficulty in a video game is a subjective experience?

I won't reiterate all the reasons people might find overland challenging, but I do want to point out that there are also players who come to ESO for reasons other than challenging mechanics. Some people enjoy playing a game that is more story-focused than combat-focused or that allows for a more relaxed experience. While I'm sure there are some people who left because they were looking for a challenge they didn't find in overland, I'm equally sure there are other players who stayed because the current difficulty was what they were looking for. While a higher overland difficulty might retain some players, it might drive others away.

I also don't think it's fair to baselessly accuse people on one side of issue of advocating against transparency. I think we would all be interested to know the facts instead of being left to argue from anecdotes, but the fact is we don't have all the facts. Only ZOS knows the actual numbers at this time. They made the conscious choice to make overland their easiest content for a reason, and I can only assume that they have a reason for exploring increased difficulty now (even if I disagree).

The final point I want to make is in response to arguments such as this one from above: "People often claim to do x, y and z if I want a challenge. But have you ever seen someone telling someone to do x, y and z if they want things EASY?" People who want/need easy content are essentially told to do x all the time. Overland content is basically the only thing we can do if dungeons, trials, PvP, etc. are too difficult. Not to mention, players who attempt more challenging content without the skill/gear/build to be successful or competitive are literally told by some sweaty players to "git gud" (essentially this content is not for you as you are).

As I said some pages ago, the argument for essentially creating a veteran mode in overland would strike me as fairer and more justified only if we simultaneously create a story mode for all the content which currently has a higher difficulty threshold, making it so all players can enjoy all content at their desired difficulty. What some of you are arguing for is just to have all content at your desired difficulty while players on the other side (who are already relegated to only a portion of the game's content) gain nothing and potentially lose out on new rewards that might be added to vet overland.

Maybe you are someone who does think that others need to "git gud" or that all MMO content should be difficult or that challenging mechanics are required in order to enjoy a game. You are welcome to your opinion, just don't pretend that your opinion is fact. Not everyone agrees with you (and that's okay). Fortunately, in my opinion, ZOS created their game with a variety of players in mind, and they chose to express that by making some content easier and some content more difficult. If it had all been difficult from the start, some of us wouldn't still be here. This is the only MMO I play because, in addition to my love of the ES franchise, I can play overland my way on my timeline with assured success, and I like that. I just hope that as ZOS considers how to improve the game for one group, they don't forget about the rest of us.

Edited for grammar.

Lysorris wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysorris wrote: »

Honestly, I am disgusted over disability claims that often make appearance on forums or reddit etc. Using someone's state to prove some kind of point is ridiculous and it happens so, so, so often.

This is wildly ableist.

The actual fact is that difficulty is subjective. And that people who struggle with disabilities and their loved ones are not wrong or "disgusting" for raising awareness of their experiences with the game. Many of the various accessibility options that video games utilize come from people discussing those experiences.

The only "ableist" thing there is claiming disability dictates your ability to perform, which is not always the case. I've played enough with quite a few people with different conditions and saw enough claims on forums that the game is impossible with those, which isn't the case and depends on other factors rather than their disability alone being the crucial factor. The person stated pretty clearly they're against using other's conditions as form of proof, not disabled people's experiences, so there's no need for an attack.

No. It is not "ableist" to claim disability impacts one's own ability to perform. Everyone experiences disability different. There are different levels of impairment. There are different experiences with the same impairment. This idea that because you met one disabled person that had no problem means another is lying when they say they do is actually ableism.

A disabled person's feedback is not "disgusting" because it goes against the popular opinion that something is easy for able bodied people.

Twisting my words to prove.... not existing point. Just like manufacturing game experience to gaslit people to believe that game is hard. Please read once again my statement without prejudice. Also it is nice to see you relfect on calling some "abelist" - as your original comment was edited.

My post touched upon accessibity options, making game for wide range of community etc. I feel like one side of this conversation cannot come up with actual well thought answers. Just one post form me and I ended up being gastlit, called disrespectful and abelist. Is this how conversation should go?

My original comment was edited for clarity and still uses the word ableist. There is that "manufacturing," accusation again. It's the same one I was responding to with my post. People are not lying just because they don't have the same experience as you or anyone else. There are factually people who struggle with Overland. Some of those people struggle specifically due to things like age and disability. The devs have the play date to prove these people exist and have already hard confirmed that there are people already challenged by overland.

Their existence is an actual fact. False accusations that people are lying when they talk about the way disability impacts their ability to perform because it doesn't fit the experiences of able-bodied people is ableism. It is an awful argument. You can't claim people are "manufacturing," their experiences and call for civility in the same breath.

I'd much rather have a better conversation. But, I'm not going to sit back and let people I love have their experiences invalidated by others because it doesn't fit into the idea that overland is easy. There are disabled people in my family that struggled with video games in general, not just overland. I used to play this game with one of them. His disability harmed his performance. He no longer plays this game.

No.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I kept playing because it's TES universe, the game is very solo-friendly, and has the semi-realistic graphics that I like.

The solo friendly part was really important for me, too. If the game had required me to group to get most things done, I would have left and never looked back.

Just a heads up for anyone that doesn't regularly check the golden vendor. They have a huge variety of sets this weekend to make up for the Vengeance campaign that disabled the cost reduction during Zenithar event a couple of months ago.

Get 'em while they're hot!

shadoza wrote: »

Broccolix wrote: »

I really don't say this to be condescending, but I am shook to my very core that anyone could see the difficulty in this game as anything else than a major flaw in game design, let alone describe it as challenging.

I started a new character and played it up to lvl 6 in Stros M'Kai, and I could simply walk past/through huge groups of enemies with no consenquence, walk through all traps and simpy light attack the few enemies I had to kill to complete the quests. I never equipped gear either. Again, what is the point of having enemies, traps ect if they have no possible chance of ever killing you? It's as if enemies and traps in this game are just scenery.

I play a lot of Nintendo games, which are games known for being very accessible even to a much more casual audience. If Nintendo had designed a game this easy it would be a major failure on their part. It's absolutely ridiculous thinking that the current balance does anything to good for newer players, all it does is push them away.

Your opinion is not shared by everyone.

The truth is, the development team doesn't need to believe anyone's statement here. They can create a character and 'walk naked into the woods' and see for themselves what comes of it. They can listen to the chats (or read the dialogue files) to see what realtime players are saying and conversing about. Most games have the telemetry software engaged to provide the data they need to make thoughtful decision. The threads here are for the players to hold conversations. I think this thread could be better used discuss solutions rather than making announcements regarding who is right and who is wrong.

This day, I was in the Bad Man's dungeon with a level 22 character. It was not easy. Fighting the mobs took a little bit. I died once fighting a boss. Another boss, I was struggling with, a group of players ran by and killed it with AOE just as I was about to end it. It would have felt so good to win that battle myself rather than have someone come along at the end drop an AOE and run off. There were many CP players in that dungeon and many low levels (14 -24) levels in that dungeon as well. If dungeons and delves and guests zone fights were instances, we would have fewer conflicts of interests in those areas.

They literally have play data that shows you're telling the truth. They have already discussed how some of their players find overland challenging. This is explicitly one of the reasons that they cited as to why they are looking into making it optional. So that vet players can have the experience that they are looking for without it making things too difficult for those who already find it challenging.

In my opinion, options are a good thing.

colossalvoids wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysorris wrote: »

Honestly, I am disgusted over disability claims that often make appearance on forums or reddit etc. Using someone's state to prove some kind of point is ridiculous and it happens so, so, so often.

This is wildly ableist.

The actual fact is that difficulty is subjective. And that people who struggle with disabilities and their loved ones are not wrong or "disgusting" for raising awareness of their experiences with the game. Many of the various accessibility options that video games utilize come from people discussing those experiences.

The only "ableist" thing there is claiming disability dictates your ability to perform, which is not always the case. I've played enough with quite a few people with different conditions and saw enough claims on forums that the game is impossible with those, which isn't the case and depends on other factors rather than their disability alone being the crucial factor. The person stated pretty clearly they're against using other's conditions as form of proof, not disabled people's experiences, so there's no need for an attack.

No. It is not "ableist" to claim disability impacts one's own ability to perform. Everyone experiences disability different. There are different levels of impairment. There are different experiences with the same impairment. This idea that because you met one disabled person that had no problem means another is lying when they say they do is actually ableism.

A disabled person's feedback is not "disgusting" because it goes against the popular opinion that something is easy for able bodied people.

Broccolix wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I do not think the game is too easy for the average player.

I started a new character. I did not apply CP to boost his power or combat abilities. I did not create the 'perfect' gear for him with my master crafter. I did not speed level him with guild mates or paid services. When you really play as if a new player, then the game is, indeed, challenging. I would put forth a challenge to those who are saying the game is too easy to try this as well; however, I think they will not do it.
.

I am playing characters with no CP and no optimized gear or build and the game is laughably easy. I don't want to come across bad faith, but I actually don't believe you. The game is so easy that it leads me to believe that you've engineered your post such as to support not increasing the difficulty. I actually struggle to imagine anyone finding the game challenging bar disabled or people of old age. If non of these apply to you, I wonder what standard of "challenging" you are applying and what other games you play if I may ask.

You are being rude. There is no reason for you to call me a liar.

I guess some of them are time-consuming if you haven't acquired the skills. I just skip ones I can't do or aren't interested in, even if it keeps me from getting three for the day. There'll be more tomorrow and the next...