NoSoup wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

So I did a little bit of math about skills because I was just interested in looking into the numbers. On the UESP they have all damage values based on characters with the same stats, so skills can be compared to each other fairly directly. Normal single target 'spammables' do a consistent amount of damage around 5717, so I use that as the base value.

Fatecarver does 42% of that damage per tick, 3 times a second, giving it, unbuffed by crux, a damage of 126% per second, meaning that Fatecarver without crux does more damage than some of the single target spammables like Cutting Dive and Flame Skull. Snipe on its own without the status effect does 118% damage, meaning that if you have one character just hard casting Fatecarver without crux, and an archer spamming Snipe without Hawk Eye stacks, the Fatecarver would do better in single target. Once you introduce crux or additional targets, Fatecarver just wins, hands down. There is downtime between beams, but since Flail does 93% damage it isn't nearly that much of a loss.

AOE spammables, skills like Impulse and Carve do 83% damage per cast, well under what Fatecarver does, costing more resources, and not having nearly as much reach. Now, I love Elemental Explosion, it does a sizable amount of damage per cast, but it only does 169% damage, so you spend two seconds casting a skill to do a little under 2 spammables worth of damage to enemies in an area, though that damage is still decent, being what you'd expect of the up front damage of Meteor.

Another skill I looked at was Scorch, specifically the stamina morph that makes both hits do the same 'lower' damage, but doing it more rapidly, and each hit does only 124% damage, meaning that technically an unbuffed Fatecarver does more damage dry cast than the shalk explosion, and yes I know you'd be mixing other skills in to make up the damage, since Fatecarver prevents the use of other skills, but that being said. Sub-Assault is essentially 1s of crux empowered Fatecarver damage, at roughly the same cost (a little over), and spread out over 6s.

I say this because I run dungeons with friends on the weekend, it's the only way I still reliably engage with ESO, and every day I think to myself "I want to bring something other than my arcanist", but I don't want to waste my friends time by causing unnecessary friction. The defensive morph of Fatecarver so strongly outpaces so many other damage options that I'd be a fool not to run them outside of trying some sort of precise trial build, but just derping around with the beam makes everything else look, honestly, like a joke.

I'd love to bring my magicka sorc and zap my enemies, but Fatecarver out damages it so easily. I'd love to bring my stam sorc, using a bow with whatever fun skills I could mix in with storm calling, but even against single targets Fatecarver just wins. I'd love to bring my elementalist warden, but for all the extra skills I'm throwing out I would still be accomplishing less. I don't want to waste my friends time, so I settle with beaming, but it'd be nice if there were other options in the same zip code as Fatecarver.

Fun bit of extra trivia. Grim Focus and Relentless Focus do pretty much exactly 200% damage in this frame of reference.

Well the issue here is Light Attack weaving. I think its always been inferred that the damage from fatecarver sits above the "base damage" of other skills due to it being a channel and the "missed" dps from missing 4 LAs over the duration. A fairer assessment when comparing the damage to other skills would be to include the LA attack damage in the equation for the skills that allow to fire off a LA every second.

It's still super gross damage and far above any other options.

And that framing creates like an implicit penalty to anyone who isn't at the level of 100% weaving efficiency, which describes like 99.9% of ESO players.

Which I think was the very reason we saw fatecarver and Velothi fidn their way into the game, to give the big chunk of players that can't effectively weave a means to compete with the players that can. And now, of course we're seeing the over the top calls for them to be heavily nerfed or removed from the game.

Prior to subclassing, this would have pushed eveyone back to "well I guess I just have to try to get better at weaving" because of a lack of alternatives. However, with subclassing here now, what will happen will just be a movement to the next closest abilities because it no longer matters if the class is lacking in other areas. Thus what I said above, nerf fatecarver too much or remove it and everyone will move to Jabs and we'll have the same agruments appear about Jabs. Then the same treatment will happen and everyone will move to the next option, Firey Breath.... Because with subclassing those abilities can all be made now to put out equal or better DPS than force pulse with near perfect weaving and the average player does not want to have to master LA weaving just to be "good enough".