spartaxoxo wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/s/uVj8tdZDxB

I also want to share this link from Reddit because it contains important feedback from users much more impacted than I am on this topic.

This is a great discussion on Reddit (as far as I've gotten in the comments), the original post is A++. @ZOS_Kevin please make sure the devs see it!

Thanks for sharing it, spartaxoxo.

LunaFlora wrote: »

Veterancy will also have Trade Bars, according to ESO-Hub which probably got the info from PTS.
https://eso-hub.com/en/veterancy

a system we can only interact with via PvP.

I mean that still doesn't excuse the fact that they're removing an event currency from an event, no?

Why even remove the ability to earn it during Whitestrake's in the first place? Just cut the currency earned in half if the event will be more often.

LunaFlora wrote: »

Veterancy will also have Trade Bars, according to ESO-Hub which probably got the info from PTS.
https://eso-hub.com/en/veterancy

a system we can only interact with via PvP.

And PVE has Tomes that award trade bars. EVENT REWARDS ARE SEPARATE.

Yeah, the removal of trade bars is pretty bad. I know it would still have new motifs, but the event really seems like it got downgraded to a battlegrounds weekend. I'm assuming they removed trade bars due to the complaints that happen every single Whitestrakes and that this was an attempt at reducing FOMO in the game, but the addition of Vengeance and no limit on Trade Bars should have been more than enough to reduce the FOMO that surrounds a Quester during Whitestrakes. Trade Bars should still be given.

Generic feedback that´s been on my mind for quite some time regarding Midyear/Whitestrike:

Can we please not have as many temporary campaigns as we do? Or at least be a bit more dynamic with how many you keep up during the event? Maybe remove/disable some of them as the event goes along if you see they´re empty and just (ab)used for activities such as emp trading etc. Nothing worse than seeing all these extra campaigns with 3 bars on one faction and none for every other faction. None of these campaigns have any real PvP in them and just spreads out the population even more than necessary.

For the next PvP event I´d like to see fewer temporary campaigns so that players are "forced" into fewer campaigns (which means more action). Same goes for imperial city, we don´t need extra imperial city campaigns during the event. No one that actually wanna PvP want empty or "one sided" (aka one faction dominates completely) Cyrodiil/IC campaigns. Only people I ever see advocate in favour of dead/empy campaigns are those who have no interest in PvP and just want easy way to complete quests/achievements/get tickets etc...

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The new update nerfs a number of more accessible play styles and builds. Many of those things already underperform compared to other, more difficult setups. I have no problem with that but builds should not be nerfed when they aren't causing problems just to fix a number on a spreadsheet.

I'm moreso commenting on things like Oakensoul and Pet Builds. But even the decision to nerf builds with flat damage increases play into this, although not as much.

When you make it so there is no room to grow in certain builds, players who need these builds can't access certain content. Everyone should be able to grow into regular vet content (hard modes and achievements already exist for the best of the best) and not be stuck purely doing roleplay content that you could do without a build at all.

Why are you all talking about "accessibility"? How many players that ACTUALLY NEED accessibility features(and not just lazy people) have you personally met? I've spent over 15000 hours in this game and I've met just a few. People who need accessibility features are less than 0.1%. Why should 99.9% constantly suffer because of 0.1%? Jesus even if these builds were nerfed by 50% it would still be enough for 99.9% of the content. "Accessibility" builds should not perform better than regular builds that requiere skill to play. There are accessibility features in other games, for example there is a damage helper or smth in wow which pressed damage skills for you, which is basically the same thing as arcanist, but it presses them slowly and you'd be better of actually playing if you want efficiency. It's not the case with arcanist builds, they take no skill to play and are better than regular builds. They need a hard nerf, not just these sets pity nerfs

Arunei wrote: »

I ask more or less because if 6k sustained DPS is still considered too high, then what would people claiming WW is too strong consider as 'normal' or 'acceptable' damage before they feel WW isn't OP anymore? It went from 10k is too strong to 6k also still being too strong.

xylena wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I ask more or less because if 6k sustained DPS is still considered too high

It's not. We've been able to do that for years.

6k DPS is the high end of what is possible on the live server. This is achieved by builds using things like rele or pyreband, by players who are very good and maintaining their weaving and not wasting any GCDS, keeping all their buffs and debuffs up as close to perfect as possible, etc. These setups are typically paper-thin as well, and usually only function well within 1v1s. This is not some easy number to hit that is common to see. It is also not something that you can typically survive without specifically building to do so - slotting purges or additional heal over times, running super high mitigation, sets like wyrd/maras, etc.

I could accept 6k dps as being the high end of what a werewolf is capable of, assuming they're running a full damage setup like what we showed in all of the testing footage & cmx's within the other thread. Even though these WWs have 40k HP and are doing obscene healing from the multiple health scaling heals while remaining fully offensive, 6k DPS would still be acceptable to me since it'd be manageable if you played extremely well, and you'd be able to burst them back with the relatively low resistances they have.

But we are not just looking at 6k dps. Pelican demonstrated as high as 12.8k DPS in his video, with a variety of different sets including relequen, savage werewolf, deadlands demolisher, etc. Often sustaining between 8-10k DPS against very skilled players who built specifically to try to survive his setup. He's since reached 14k DPS in one duel. The number is continuing to escalate as more setups are tested and people gain familiarity with the mechanics. When someone is doing that much damage to you, if you stop blocking/healing/kiting for just 1-2 seconds, you instantly die. There is no surviving it, there is no outplaying it.

People keep saying that somehow we are still lacking context, and at this point I just don't have the patience to continue arguing. Check my comment history if you care to, there is multiple CMX posts straight from pelican himself, one or more of which include his list of buffs that shows his sets and the breakdown of his damage. Between those posts and the 18 minute long video consisting of 5-20 second long duel clips versus a variety of different builds/classes/skill level players, I think there is more than enough to demonstrate exactly why we're suggesting why it may be good to dial things back just a bit.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

React wrote: »

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

This was the first 'nerf werewolf' comment (that I saw, skimming) that came in and happened to include no information. Later came a CMX with no information on person skills/gear/playstyle and opponent skills/gear/playstyle. Beyond this, and MUCH later, after multiple 'please for proof' requests- came the more-or-less-the-same-style (no real evidence) dueling anyone and everyone in PTS Riften video with once again limited or no information.

This was my comment, and was genuinely just a question that caused a dozen people to completely spiral over something they themselves had not tested whatsoever. Ironically, it seems several of those parties have since shifted their stance to "well it seems class mastery passives are the real core of the issue".

At this point though, I don't really know what would qualify as "real evidence" to you. What was provided was probably 10+ hours of PTS duels across a variety of setups which included an on screen DPS meter, broken down into an 18 minute video, and multiple CMX pages showing the damage breakdowns as well as one with pelican's buffs visible - showing exactly the gear that he'd been using and his class mastery passives.

Meanwhile this whole time, all I've seen in return are constant remarks of "this doesn't suffice" and "this lacks context" from people who haven't provided a single thing of substance to substantiate their own claims.

I'm not going to continue arguing about this. I think there is more than enough for objective parties to sort through and decide for themselves what would be the correct path moving forward. Hopefully we'll hear from the team in advance of whatever they're planning to do/not do in the coming weeks, so a healthier conversation can be had there.

again people need to accept that during this year and refresh of each class. everything will be unbalanced and there will be a huge influx of whatever class is currently buffed. By the end of the year each class will be roughly the same in performance people just need to be patient and accept this inevitability. its a growing pain but theres literally no way to keep every class on par with each other when they are being refreshed one by one.

yes werewolves being buffed will be annoying for those who dont main it, all the way up till they refresh YOUR class then you'll be silent and us werewolf mains STILL wont call for your nerfs.

let the werewolves have their time, everyone knows they need it.. and Devs please give us weapon passives, its a double standard not to and will allow for some wiggle room with builds.

I wouldn't overreact so soon, they said the event is meant to be more common so they plan to do it once every 3 months in 2027. That alone is a huge sell I'd be willing to lose Trade Bars over.

However, Trade Bars can be obtained in new ways now via Golden Pursuits or Tome Passes that line up with these events so who's to say they don't have a unique one with Whitestrakes that contains not just trade bars, but tome points, a skill style, and a unique costume or mount. The PTS has shown it's possible to do mini Tome Passes to pump up the release of new content and Golden Pursuits are used for a similar process.

To me, that's way more interesting than "turn in 1 quest a day" and I bet most events in the future will shift to this design. It eliminates the micro managing, daily login, job requirement, to instead doing a 2-3 hour session on Friday night which is much more attractive for the casual audience they're aiming for.

Plus, trade bars are pretty easy to get in comparison to tickets, and you can stock up indefinitely on so I don't really see it as a huge loss. Within the past 3-4 weeks I've accumalted more than 6,000 and ran out of things I care about to purchase once I got all the skill styles. I still hope it's provided during future PVP events, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it if it wasn't. Still, they could of clarified in the FAQ, it's pretty important.