BardokRedSnow wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Greyhost does not at all struggle to hit a mere 100 players

It struggles to hit 100 per faction during NA prime time.

It struggles to hit 100 on the whole server outside of that.

Again, this is not true lol not even close. I would again advise you try logging in when Greyhost returns to see how off base you are with these comments of yours, it’s getting beyond ridiculous.

Anyway you look at it, the GH community is like 0.000001% of ESO. I like eso pvp, its the only thing I do in ESO anymore. But the numbers whether its 100 during the day or 1000 at primetime is tiny...tiny. The fact the devs are doing anything is a miracle.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

It's not a "boycott", we just don't want to play this garbage.

Imagine if your trials and dungeons got replaced with a pve template for damage dealer, healer and tank, no sets to gain or earn, just vanilla template slop where everyone's the same and the difficulty was set to normal.

Worse, the player counts are tripled in number.

Would you like that? That's essentially what is happening here. Ultra snoozefest casual mode not even entertaining to pvers longer than two days.

Suggesting that Cyrodiil PvP is in any way shape or form skill based is laughable.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MMOs are a dying genre because all the good PvP games have skill based modes or matchmaking to ensure that people can learn without a thesis statement.

There was a surge of people coming in with the dk refresh but this game, like the genre, is not great for PvP because of the utter nonsense of not having different modes for different levels of skills and interest.

again this isnt a pvp game, maybe go play one of those, it is an mmo with pvp based around that concept. If Zos were intending on Vengeance to aid new players, they'd stick to bettering those game modes so new players actually can learn the ins and outs of the biggest and most popular cyrodiil variant.

Instead it serves as a way to give pvers something else to do with minimal effort on their part, and it shows.

MMOs are a dying genre because all the good PvP games have skill based modes or matchmaking to ensure that people can learn without a thesis statement.

There was a surge of people coming in with the dk refresh but this game, like the genre, is not great for PvP because of the utter nonsense of not having different modes for different levels of skills and interest.

It genuinely sounds like someone spent way too much time in CoD lobbies on Xbox live and decided this is just how console players are. Even if you say “not all console players are like this”, the fact remains that you’re leveling the implication of “any player from console who displays this behavior does so because they are a console player”. That’s why you’re seeing an avalanche of pushback on this post.

AScarlato wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised Eveli is one of the Smolder Scrolls and Valentine's Cards.

I haven't seen her with the fan base of the other ones, especially after Blackwood.

Eveli really felt like one of those “we’re going to shove this character in everyone’s face because we want them to be a fan favorite” kinds of characters. I’m sure she does have fans, but she seemed to get a lot more attention in the story than expected based on her fanbase. And it didn’t help that she had to explain everything to you like Dora the Explorer with the whole “I don’t know what’s going on!” while she’s standing right next to a letter saying “This is the whole story.”

That’s one of the issues I have with “fan favorites” in the first place, where they bring some 1.5 dimensional character back and remove any nuance from them, but at least you can flirt with them now!

But yeah, I’d still take Blackwood over High Isle. Ugh, I can’t even think of a single part of the High Isle line that didn’t make me retch. Every choice they made was the wrong one.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Greyhost is intended for end game players, everyone there participating should be "hardcore" by the definition of the rest of the community, same as vet trial pvers, and especially the hardcore mode enjoyers.

No one's telling them they're too sweaty and need to have their content lose focus for everyone else to enjoy their content on easier casual modes for the same rewards, or worse, more rewards than what they're doing despite it being harder.

I really, really loathe this focus on calling greyhost enjoyers who dont want vengeance "tryheard sweats". Lol that has a lot of mileage apparently and is a very, very varied and wide spectrum.

There are absolutely would be if vet trials players were constantly fighting tooth and nail to prevent a normal version of trials.

Furthermore, most PvP games don't force new and casual players to fight against top 500s. They have separate matchmaking for a reason. PvP as it stands now has needed different modes/maps so that there is actually choice for a long time now.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

You are not the majority so please do not represent yourself as such.

Not everything is for everybody so I'm sure you are dissappointed you must be without GH for a time. I'd like a pvp ro;; back to Elsewyr but we all know that isn't happening, so we will have to work with what we have. GH will be back in it cheesy, meta bustedness soon enough

You are the minority. So please do not represent yourself as the majority.

The vast majority of the PvP community will not play vengeance under any circumstances. We will leave the game before playing vengeance again.

We've put in our time and treasure to be able to play GH. Maybe next time they run vengeance they should remove all PvE zones from the game so people like you would have some experience with being treated the same way the PvP community gets treated during vengeance....the perfect name for what ZOS is doing to the PvP community.

I think this is actually a big part of the problem. Legacy PVPers like yourself see themselves as some golden commodity that ZoS needs to hold on to. They really don't.

MMOs that are on a maintenance lifecycle are held together by new players. New players dont join Grey Host because of the knowledge and skill gap. Vengeance addresses this. You leaving is not a problem for ZoS, they have already gotten plenty of dollars out of you, your Lifetime Value (LTV) as a client is almost completely dried up.

On the other hand, if they can get a new player to lock in for a year, there are thousands of dollars of potential in cosmetics etc that they have never unlocked, but you have. The lifeblood of an MMO is its new players, and Grey Host is completely unfriendly to new players. Vengeance is. It's a simple equation.

Regardless of what you may 'feel' - Vengeance is the right business decision and it is actually fun and accessible (as someone who runs a 500 person guild who is largely casuals, we LOVE vengeance).

You can see this trend in all MMOs, and even in what else ZoS is doing (Solo Dungeons, Making Companions more Appetizing (heart week, xp floor drops), etc. All of these things are trending toward making the game easier and more accessible with optional difficulty (e.g. overland sliders).