On a different topic, we have considered making Eidetic Memory account-wide. It's a more challenging space than it sounds, as Eidetic Memory can sometimes be used for quest checks to make sure that you get served the right stuff at the right time, and a change could cause a number of bugs and edge cases in existing quests. This doesn't mean we may not do it in the future, but it's something that we'd have to approach VERY cautiously.

Normal Naj Caldeesh would still be a little difficult to do without a tank, and practically impossible for a group of 4 new DD players.
I don't mind fake tanks, but if I end up in a dungeon where a tank would be nice to have, I need to know who the fake tank is so that I can assign blame and vote-kick.
If the random normal dungeon queue excluded DLC dungeons, then I would support this idea.

Correction: Hardcore PVPers who only care about their own personal gameplay hate Vengeance with a passion.
It's fair if it's not for you, and no one is going to force you to play it when it goes live. I personally don't want to solely play Vengeance when it does go live, but I will jump into it if I need a break from major sweats and ball groups.
I also care about other people and want Vengeance to be around so inexperienced and new players to experience and learn PVP without the sweatiest PVPers with the cheesiest possible builds deleting their weak rear-ends in 0.01 seconds. Grey Host is not very hospitable to the average player who doesn't have the drive for PVP or are masochistic in some manner. My friends who aren't very hardcore at all for PVP actually enjoy Vengeance because everyone's on a much fairer playing field.

I know many, many people who really enjoy subclassing, and its opened up new ways of playing and new areas of the game for many people.

The people I know that left, left more because of the complexity and need to relevel than anything to do with the idea of subclassing. And people I have seen coming back, are only really coming back because they've had a general break from the game because of real life elements and not because of anything to do with what is changing with the game or how the game was. I've seen more people leave because of the battlepass than because of subclassing. I also know people staying away because of the perceived complexity of the game compared to the game they played before.

People with an issue or ideas will always be more engaged with forums, be that subclassing, vengeance, connectivity, list times in traders, the trading system, that's there's too much to do, that there is too little to do, too much downtime for patching, take more time to do patching, speed running of dungeons, why do I have to wait for others in dungeon etc etc. The vast majority of people are silent on forums (90-9-1 rule for engagement)

With the play as you want approach there is no way subclassing should be removed and its only really an issue for DDs, I wouldn't mind if all the class mastery passives were there to deal with power discrepancy caused there, in my opinion subclassing has put tanks and healers are in a much better space, but it hasn't changed the viability of the pureclasses.

Also for what it's worth on PC NA:



But yeah can it look like that in the long-run up alongside Grey Host? It would probably have to attract a bunch of players who aren't currently pvp'ing. On the other hand, it's worth considering that as a temporary test server, Vengeance hasn't yet had a chance to attract a regular following, and guilds, and friend groups, etc. It's coming, so we'll see.

LalMirchi wrote: »

In spite of my misgivings I did my civic duty and tested the first iteration of Vengeance for the duration.

I am probably being triggered here, apologies, but serious or not from you, there are people here who actually feel this way.

We are customers, consumers. There is no civic duty, any obligation or expectation to help Zos develop their content. We can choose to help, because we love this game, and many do. Both with tests in the past like the no proc test, or the pts.

If you choose to aid them with Vengeance so be it, that's your right. But I really want people here to understand this. Vengeance wasn't a choice. There was only one test, prior to this one where Greyhost was included with Vengeance, and it was the second week of the tests. Beyond that they've been taking away Greyhost entirely for people to aid, whether you wish to participate or not. At least in the case of the no proc test you still had sets to choose from and it was like the base game we were used to for years.

This Vengeance mode however is so different it may as well be a different game, and not an mmo either. That isn't what I've opted into for over a decade. There is no expectation on me to aid Zos, there is however an expectation on Zos to serve up what the customers have been asking for, and its not Vengeance, its a more playable Greyhost. We've been putting up with the lackluster performance this long, we can wait longer.

I'm aware that the final iteration will be Vengeance and Greyhost but they made it clear the former is going to be receiving their time and attention despite the clear lack of interest from even the pvers and casual players its targeted towards.

If people here are confused as to why the pvp guilds aren't aiding the tests, this is why. It is not the product we want, nor is it the product we've been promised. So of course, we won't touch it. That isn't a boycott, that is choice, which is what the game philosophy was focused on.

And if Vengeance is here to stay, then so be it but Greyhost needs to remain in your focus as well, and primarily* not pushed aside for an audience you want to swell its ranks that can't even populate it for two days.

Maitsukas wrote: »

I assume it's somewhat preparing you to experience teamwork with other players once Night Market starts next week.

Well, the "teamwork" I experienced today was being grouped with a friend - while he wasn't even online the whole time - , just for my character to have "grouped" status, so whatever I was doing alone counted for the golden pursuit.

I thought the Night Market was supposed to be an attempt at having more difficult content, which needs several players present for completion, without needing to group? Basically like the Writhing Fortress last year?

Munkfist wrote: »

Personally, I hope it stays the way it is, but I understand not so many people may enjoy the slow grind and prefer instant gratification.

Please don't. How "slow" does the grind need to not be considered "instant gratification" Gold Road came out almost two years ago. I grinded those dailies like it was my paying job and only got the third music box lead about 4 months ago. I still only have 1/3 leads for any of the Colovian tapestries. I'm glad you find it enjoyable but let's not minimize the frustration of garbage drop rates and nested RNG by saying people want instant gratification.