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Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
I think it's important to talk about design here and not just whether something is very overtuned or not.
The design of werewolf throughout the history of this game has been low amount of heal over times/no dmg shields, very reliant on the burst heal and utilizing the mobility and dodging to not run out of resources when magicka starts getting low.
This gameplay loop on Live is actually very fun from gameplay point of view... just not typically very rewarding since you'd do less damage (both pressure & burst) than other builds out there.
Werewolf on PTS still largely has that, but when you take away the "low amount of heal over times" by adding automatic "Vigor tick" to every ability, every dodge roll etc it breaks things, especially when sustain has also been made infinitely easier.
Design wise werewolf should be an immense amount of damage when they can stick to you, the burst heal should be very powerful so you don't just die immediately when someone puts two DoTs on you... but people should still be able to put you on defensive - and you more or less have this when not taking class masteries into account.
A simple solution would be to disable class masteries (and I'd even disable class passives) while in werewolf form and bake in more power into werewolf passives instead to compensate for this.*
This would allow more flexibility with the future class reworks without having to consider if something is going to break werewolf or not and would probably free up more development time, as well as allowing players to go werewolf on any class, not just sorc (or feel left behind power wise).
*If one wants to go down a rabbit hole, they could even design an "unarmed" skill line with extremely strong passives and have werewolf default to that and gain benefits from those passives... this would be a more interesting approach imo and would add something for non-werewolves too, but would obviously require more development time.
The design of werewolf throughout the history of this game has been low amount of heal over times/no dmg shields, very reliant on the burst heal and utilizing the mobility and dodging to not run out of resources when magicka starts getting low.
This gameplay loop on Live is actually very fun from gameplay point of view... just not typically very rewarding since you'd do less damage (both pressure & burst) than other builds out there.
Werewolf on PTS still largely has that, but when you take away the "low amount of heal over times" by adding automatic "Vigor tick" to every ability, every dodge roll etc it breaks things, especially when sustain has also been made infinitely easier.
Design wise werewolf should be an immense amount of damage when they can stick to you, the burst heal should be very powerful so you don't just die immediately when someone puts two DoTs on you... but people should still be able to put you on defensive - and you more or less have this when not taking class masteries into account.
A simple solution would be to disable class masteries (and I'd even disable class passives) while in werewolf form and bake in more power into werewolf passives instead to compensate for this.*
This would allow more flexibility with the future class reworks without having to consider if something is going to break werewolf or not and would probably free up more development time, as well as allowing players to go werewolf on any class, not just sorc (or feel left behind power wise).
*If one wants to go down a rabbit hole, they could even design an "unarmed" skill line with extremely strong passives and have werewolf default to that and gain benefits from those passives... this would be a more interesting approach imo and would add something for non-werewolves too, but would obviously require more development time.
Decimus
7
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
So we're in agreement then that the Mastery Passives are potentially the issue here and NOT WW itself needing a nerf? Because so far it seems like all the proof that's been submitted is from/involving someone that's running Sorc with two potentially super overtuned Mastery Passives, judging from a screenshot someone else posted several pages back of both of those hitting some pretty insane numbers.Well then we're back to asking what exactly we're supposed to nerf about it. Has the top 0.1% tested WW builds on classes other than Sorc?If the majority of the player base isn’t hitting it then it shouldn’t matter if WW gets nerfed or not, right? I mean, if they can’t reach 10k DPS when WW is at its strongest, then why should any of them worry at all when WW gets nerfed for the top 0.1%?
Nerf WW's interaction with class masteries. While we're at it, nerf DK's Wildfire passive as well.
No, WW itself is still too strong. I could have Pelican on WW and myself on Sorc/DK, both without class masteries, and WW would still be significantly stronger.
But I know that most people here wouldn't want to accept that fact either. I can already see the dismissive comments like "It's just a 1v1" or "We don't know how it performs in Cyro/BG/etc". Those were the exact comments used to argue with me when I raised concern about old Sorc and reworked DK being overperforming. It didn't take long for multiple threads to occur after those patches went live, CONFIRMING my concern.
Look I get it, you and many people here want WW to stay as it is, and that's fair. But let's not try to sugarcoat it with balance discussions, as a simple fight on PTS clearly shows otherwise. Just state the blatantly obvious intention that you and many others want WW to overperform for once. That I can understand.
hoangdz
6