Best Of
Re: Official Discussion Thread for "Tamriel Tomes Season Zero Developer Update"
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom So, the thing that confuses me about all this:
If the threshold to unlock a page is always higher than the costs of the things on the page, then what's the point of having the cost at all? Why not just make all the things 0-cost? Since the thing that actually matters is the threshold of unlocking each page.
Having items cost things just makes things confusing and muddies the intent that I think you're trying to convey.
So, the first problem is that people are confused about Tome Points to unlock pages vs. Tome Points to redeem a reward. On more than one occasion, I've talked to people who were hesitant to redeem a reward because they thought it would set back their page progress. You're using Tome Points in two different ways, and it's confusing people who haven't gone and read the article or help page (and why should they? systems like this should be intuitive, and if someone needs to read paragraphs to understand how it works, then you've failed the "is it intuitive?" test)
The second problem is that it frames the situation differently, when you assign a cost to individual items. I'm sure you've noticed in this thread a lot discontent over auto-claims of rewards and expiring points. And I'm pretty certain that's all because you needlessly assigned values to these items. By explicitly associating points to these things, you're now getting people to think of these points as a currency that is spent. But that's really not what this system is about!
And because each page's threshold needs to account for both the normal and premium tier things, this means that non-premium users are faced with a huge excess of points that they will then get upset about losing because you're telling them that it's a spendable currency!
This system is about: earning points to unlock reward levels ("pages") in the same way someone would earn XP to unlock levels. That's it. Get rid of the whole notion of Tome Points as a currency. Get rid of the whole notion of spending Tome Points. All of this is unnecessary, confusing, and it's framing the whole system in a negative way.
You need to treat Tome Points like an XP bar, rather than a spendable currency. These Tome Points then unlock levels of reward ("pages"). Each page will have a bunch of normal and premium items. No costs associated with each item. And when a user unlock a page, they can redeem the entire page. This is a way, way simpler way of framing the system. One that's more intuitive and less confusing. And more importantly, it avoids all the problems that you're currently dealing with in this thread: because earning excess XP and blowing past the final level is something that people can understand and wrap their minds around and are okay with. But telling them that they're earning excess spendable currency that you'll then yoink away from them at the end of a season is just begging for pitchforks.
Because the threshold to unlock each page is high enough to "purchase" everything on the page, in the end, the system that I describe is effectively identical to the system that currently exists. Except that you're no longer framing Tome Points as a spendable "currency" and getting all the associated confusion and backlash.
If the threshold to unlock a page is always higher than the costs of the things on the page, then what's the point of having the cost at all? Why not just make all the things 0-cost? Since the thing that actually matters is the threshold of unlocking each page.
Having items cost things just makes things confusing and muddies the intent that I think you're trying to convey.
So, the first problem is that people are confused about Tome Points to unlock pages vs. Tome Points to redeem a reward. On more than one occasion, I've talked to people who were hesitant to redeem a reward because they thought it would set back their page progress. You're using Tome Points in two different ways, and it's confusing people who haven't gone and read the article or help page (and why should they? systems like this should be intuitive, and if someone needs to read paragraphs to understand how it works, then you've failed the "is it intuitive?" test)
The second problem is that it frames the situation differently, when you assign a cost to individual items. I'm sure you've noticed in this thread a lot discontent over auto-claims of rewards and expiring points. And I'm pretty certain that's all because you needlessly assigned values to these items. By explicitly associating points to these things, you're now getting people to think of these points as a currency that is spent. But that's really not what this system is about!
And because each page's threshold needs to account for both the normal and premium tier things, this means that non-premium users are faced with a huge excess of points that they will then get upset about losing because you're telling them that it's a spendable currency!
This system is about: earning points to unlock reward levels ("pages") in the same way someone would earn XP to unlock levels. That's it. Get rid of the whole notion of Tome Points as a currency. Get rid of the whole notion of spending Tome Points. All of this is unnecessary, confusing, and it's framing the whole system in a negative way.
You need to treat Tome Points like an XP bar, rather than a spendable currency. These Tome Points then unlock levels of reward ("pages"). Each page will have a bunch of normal and premium items. No costs associated with each item. And when a user unlock a page, they can redeem the entire page. This is a way, way simpler way of framing the system. One that's more intuitive and less confusing. And more importantly, it avoids all the problems that you're currently dealing with in this thread: because earning excess XP and blowing past the final level is something that people can understand and wrap their minds around and are okay with. But telling them that they're earning excess spendable currency that you'll then yoink away from them at the end of a season is just begging for pitchforks.
Because the threshold to unlock each page is high enough to "purchase" everything on the page, in the end, the system that I describe is effectively identical to the system that currently exists. Except that you're no longer framing Tome Points as a spendable "currency" and getting all the associated confusion and backlash.
code65536
18
Re: Official Discussion Thread for "Tamriel Tomes Season Zero Developer Update"
This is about the current functionality rather than the update, but it will feed into considerations around carrying over points, and I can't see anywhere else to put it where it might get seen.
It's annoying that if you only have the basic, free version of a tome you have to earn far more points than you need to spend just to be allowed to 'unlock' a page.
For example I just finished page 3, I have 1,352 points banked and I need to earn another 1,228 to unlock page 4. But the 5 rewards on that page will only cost me 1,350 points to buy. Even if I went back and bought the useless consumables I don't want from previous pages unlocking page 4 still requires me to have 810 more points than I need to buy everything from it, and it looks like that's going to continue escalating as I go through the pages.
Considering tome points have absolutely no other use and all but 2000 will be deleted at the end of the season I can't see any reason for this except to add yet another form of pressure to pay for the tome just to get something to do with the excess points required to unlock a page. (And honestly for me it does the opposite, because I don't want to reward that kind of behaviour.). The items are already 'locked' behind earning enough points because they each have a cost, that's exactly how prices function.
If there has to be a seperate cost to unlock pages I think the maximum it should cost is the price of unlocking all the free items on the previous pages, not that plus the cost of all the items on the page and then several hundred more points as well.
It's annoying that if you only have the basic, free version of a tome you have to earn far more points than you need to spend just to be allowed to 'unlock' a page.
For example I just finished page 3, I have 1,352 points banked and I need to earn another 1,228 to unlock page 4. But the 5 rewards on that page will only cost me 1,350 points to buy. Even if I went back and bought the useless consumables I don't want from previous pages unlocking page 4 still requires me to have 810 more points than I need to buy everything from it, and it looks like that's going to continue escalating as I go through the pages.
Considering tome points have absolutely no other use and all but 2000 will be deleted at the end of the season I can't see any reason for this except to add yet another form of pressure to pay for the tome just to get something to do with the excess points required to unlock a page. (And honestly for me it does the opposite, because I don't want to reward that kind of behaviour.). The items are already 'locked' behind earning enough points because they each have a cost, that's exactly how prices function.
If there has to be a seperate cost to unlock pages I think the maximum it should cost is the price of unlocking all the free items on the previous pages, not that plus the cost of all the items on the page and then several hundred more points as well.
Danikat
9
Re: 2026 Anniversary Event
If you're trying to demonstrate how awful the rewards are, you're going about it in a novel way.
DenverRalphy
18
Re: Opening 637 Jubilee Event Boxes & Mathing Out The Gold Value
rhythmsuji wrote: »Blood_again wrote: »Making math in video format is a kind of weird decision
Sorry it's how I produce ESO content, BUT I usually do add text info on forums. It's my bad for posting too late with no sleep.
I have fixed it now.
Thank you for the text update!
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Major_Mangle wrote: »Remove offensive AoE caps and I can guarantee you that the ballgroups you claim gets clapped will wreck havoc in Vengeance.
LMAO "offensive AoE caps"? Tell us you run in a human centipede in Gray Host without telling us you're a ball grouper. See? The highly vocal minority who thinks their silly niche play style actually takes skill.
They want anything and everything removed that might make them struggle just a lil bit, lol.
Re: Is trolling against TOS in cyro
Cyrodiil is the natural habitat for Trolls in Tamriel. They have a right to exist! Stop with the minority hatred!
😂😂😂
But joking aside, the definition by ZOS is vague and blurry, but encompasses many subsets of bad behaviour. And like any good company they will notoriously avoid strict language to describe a violation. Words like may and should do not mean "it is forbidden to".
As a result, you probably have to make a strong case with lots of evidence, if you want to report a player for bad behaviour.
😂😂😂
But joking aside, the definition by ZOS is vague and blurry, but encompasses many subsets of bad behaviour. And like any good company they will notoriously avoid strict language to describe a violation. Words like may and should do not mean "it is forbidden to".
As a result, you probably have to make a strong case with lots of evidence, if you want to report a player for bad behaviour.
Re: Options for Armoury Slot
On PC there is the addon Armory Style Manager to save collectibles with the slot.
Taggund
2
Re: Werewolf Update From The Combat Refresh Team
I love the new model and abilities they are super fun and enjoyable to play especially with all the new sound effects and animations
For Berserker Form it has felt challenging to stay in form in combat when there is not a way to use devour. Maybe a way to allow for ultimate generation or a cost reduction or a greater length of time in form from the 10 initial seconds to 30 seconds on initial and then, 50 depleting thereafter every 10 seconds may help.
Light attacks and heavy attacks "feel" slower than live and if there was a way to weave them better it could be cool, but I love their sound effects and slow wind up makes it seem momentous.
Thank you so much to all the teams at ZoS and people who worked on this werewolf refresh, it is overall wonderful and very enjoyable to play. 🐺💕
For Berserker Form it has felt challenging to stay in form in combat when there is not a way to use devour. Maybe a way to allow for ultimate generation or a cost reduction or a greater length of time in form from the 10 initial seconds to 30 seconds on initial and then, 50 depleting thereafter every 10 seconds may help.
Light attacks and heavy attacks "feel" slower than live and if there was a way to weave them better it could be cool, but I love their sound effects and slow wind up makes it seem momentous.
Thank you so much to all the teams at ZoS and people who worked on this werewolf refresh, it is overall wonderful and very enjoyable to play. 🐺💕
Re: Werewolf Update From The Combat Refresh Team
Hey ZOS team I just want to provide my first look raw feedback on the revised werewolf after testing on PTS some yesterday and today.
First - the refresh feels like a labor of love. You guys put a lot of thought and care into this. THANK YOU. I believe in the team working on this.
The pictures you posted on Friday and previously did not do justice to the werewolf model. The model look so much better than I perceived it to be from the advance pictures.
The tattoos are growing on me after the initial shock. Unexpected really, but I can go with this - I see where you’re going and see the opportunity for even more customization options … nice! Naturally I’ve heard from folks that they would like the option to remove the tats or tone them down. Different skill styles look nice overall!
White werewolf - needs some small “highlights” or rather darkening of snout and some other edges IMO - idk it’s necessary for it to look like albino wolf, it’s absolutely snow white - should still look like normal wolf man guy with maybe darker hair around claws, feet, snout, maybe back
Female model looks good not overblown, tasteful!
THE WEREWOLF STEALTH DETECTION - I now believe in justice - we should have always detected people. Hircine is great! THANK YOU. I mean I still think we should be able to stealth - werewolves are apex predators and all, but I’m cool with this for now
Animations look good overall! Jump is good! It’s probably too much to ask but pie in the sky ask would be to alternate arms when blocking and bashing, but I understand if that’s not feasible. Do you guys have the option to add various animations for block and bash that we cycle through?
Combat:
- I like a lot of where you are going. Lots of good with all the morphs and passives. There seems to be a chunk of wonky stuff about how stats convert when going into ww form, couple times where abilities do not trigger properly etc. but we have some weeks to test and give specific
- The bite ability is cool
- New claws animation is cool
- feel wise, something feels less responsive. Maybe just years of hardwiring to the old animations - will give it a fair shot before passing judgement.
- explain why we need aoe cap on claws? >:( do not like!
- healing feels like a nerf so far
- Still feeling out ulti and fury gen - will see with some more testing
- Can you explain any changes to speed? Only speed increase is on rampage? Perhaps it feels that we are not moving as fast just on account of being slightly bigger.
I see you guys working on this - thanks for the great effort. There will be some areas for concern that are highlighted but first I want to appreciate you guys for the honest care and work!
First - the refresh feels like a labor of love. You guys put a lot of thought and care into this. THANK YOU. I believe in the team working on this.
The pictures you posted on Friday and previously did not do justice to the werewolf model. The model look so much better than I perceived it to be from the advance pictures.
The tattoos are growing on me after the initial shock. Unexpected really, but I can go with this - I see where you’re going and see the opportunity for even more customization options … nice! Naturally I’ve heard from folks that they would like the option to remove the tats or tone them down. Different skill styles look nice overall!
White werewolf - needs some small “highlights” or rather darkening of snout and some other edges IMO - idk it’s necessary for it to look like albino wolf, it’s absolutely snow white - should still look like normal wolf man guy with maybe darker hair around claws, feet, snout, maybe back
Female model looks good not overblown, tasteful!
THE WEREWOLF STEALTH DETECTION - I now believe in justice - we should have always detected people. Hircine is great! THANK YOU. I mean I still think we should be able to stealth - werewolves are apex predators and all, but I’m cool with this for now
Animations look good overall! Jump is good! It’s probably too much to ask but pie in the sky ask would be to alternate arms when blocking and bashing, but I understand if that’s not feasible. Do you guys have the option to add various animations for block and bash that we cycle through?
Combat:
- I like a lot of where you are going. Lots of good with all the morphs and passives. There seems to be a chunk of wonky stuff about how stats convert when going into ww form, couple times where abilities do not trigger properly etc. but we have some weeks to test and give specific
- The bite ability is cool
- New claws animation is cool
- feel wise, something feels less responsive. Maybe just years of hardwiring to the old animations - will give it a fair shot before passing judgement.
- explain why we need aoe cap on claws? >:( do not like!
- healing feels like a nerf so far
- Still feeling out ulti and fury gen - will see with some more testing
- Can you explain any changes to speed? Only speed increase is on rampage? Perhaps it feels that we are not moving as fast just on account of being slightly bigger.
I see you guys working on this - thanks for the great effort. There will be some areas for concern that are highlighted but first I want to appreciate you guys for the honest care and work!
Re: Weekly tome challenge Tome Points rewards
You get 5 new ones every week, and completed ones drop from your list. You can get a max of 12 active challenges at any time.A little update:
Couldn't bring myself to mine more than 20 ores (no surveys left) and the challenge actually carried over to this week
Now I have it as a sixth challenge (1/6 claimed, progress 5/15). I wonder whether that will continue to carry over until I finally finish it, or if there is a limit to either the number of weekly challenges or how long you can take to do them.
On another note: Got another "gather a silly amount of mats" this week and rerolled. Got "Kill 20 Daedra" instead, which I already had. Every daedra I killed in the IC sewers counted for both challenges. Quick and easy.
The big thing here is that this system, unlike Endeavors, actually allows people to take their time. Sure, knock out the easy challenges. But for those that will take a bit, you are able to complete it organically instead of grinding it in one week. See also the “kill 1000 enemies,” which gives us over 90 days to finish.
This is something about ESO’s playerbase is that they are generally very grind-happy. A lot of things ZOS has released in the past that were huge grinds (levelling Subclassing, collecting 500 ink and all Scripts) were designed to be long-term projects that players would take about a year to do, and be ready for the next feature then. But the players instead see something they need to churn out in 20 minutes, complain endlessly about how boring and grindy it is, and then complain that they have nothing to do after they finish it.
So yeah, absolutely take your time with the Challenges, don’t stress and try to minmax the points (mathematically, even if you do only the cheapest challenges, you’ll still have more than enough points to buy all free-tier things and have the 2k carryover, and a number of those points will be lost), and just do things when you feel like it. Taking it slower = less burnout = not a second job = more fun with this game.
