Best Of
Re: Challenge difficulty is so much fun
ESO_player123 wrote: »randconfig wrote: »Honestly, there is only one way this challenge difficulty thing is going to work without separate instances:
Mark players and foes in vestige difficulty with an icon, and force any lower difficulty player into that difficulty the moment they join the combat. Do not let them grief and ruin my experience or the experience of my friends.
Otherwise, at least give us a pass on violating the ToS when we inevitably get into verbal fights with griefing players lol.
And why should the lower difficulty players be punished by being forced into a difficulty they did not sign up for?
They could simply avoid the fight if it were marked. Why should the higher difficulty players be punished by being forced into a difficulty they did not sign up for?
Re: Challenge difficulty is so much fun
randconfig wrote: »Honestly, there is only one way this challenge difficulty thing is going to work without separate instances:
Mark players and foes in vestige difficulty with an icon, and force any lower difficulty player into that difficulty the moment they join the combat. Do not let them grief and ruin my experience or the experience of my friends.
Otherwise, at least give us a pass on violating the ToS when we inevitably get into verbal fights with griefing players lol.
How about the flip side of that? When average-powered or newbie players are fighting a boss and some massively-OP vet players come along and melt the boss, denying the lesser-powered players from receiving any loot privileges due to the OP vets doing the majority of the damage, punish the OP vets? Because that scenario has been going on for years, and caused much grief (as expressed in these forums) to those players who couldn't receive any event coffers from a boss. How is it griefing only if OP vet players on Vestige difficulty are suddenly treated to the same scenario they've been griefing lowbie players with for years?
You can't have it both ways. If OP vets have been griefing lowbie players for years and not being punished for it, then lowbie players should not be punished for supposedly "griefing" vet players on Vestige difficulty. How about let's be fair, not entitled.
SeaGtGruff
10
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Can Shapeshifter's Chain and Salvation be modified to interact with the new Werewolf more? For instance, one of them could increase Fury generation, and another could remove the Ultimate drain in combat altogether. Currently, both sets have the same purpose — reducing the cost of Werewolf Transformation, which includes the drain each 10 seconds.
Shapeshifter's Chain as a 1 piece Mythic has the added bonus of reducing the cost of the rest of the Werewolf abilities, which is less useful now that all the Stamina abilities were made cheaper, but at least it's still useful for making the heal cheaper.
Salvation, on the other hand, is not worth 5 item slots in my opinion. Sure, it reduces the drain by one third, but that's only useful for solo Werewolf Berserkers, and since those are damage dealers, they need more than just 150 WD/SD for the 5 piece bonus. The 2-4 piece bonuses (2x Maximum Stamina, 1x Stamina Recovery) are also not ideal for a damage dealer setup.
Shapeshifter's Chain as a 1 piece Mythic has the added bonus of reducing the cost of the rest of the Werewolf abilities, which is less useful now that all the Stamina abilities were made cheaper, but at least it's still useful for making the heal cheaper.
Salvation, on the other hand, is not worth 5 item slots in my opinion. Sure, it reduces the drain by one third, but that's only useful for solo Werewolf Berserkers, and since those are damage dealers, they need more than just 150 WD/SD for the 5 piece bonus. The 2-4 piece bonuses (2x Maximum Stamina, 1x Stamina Recovery) are also not ideal for a damage dealer setup.
Re: Fashion Megathread
spartaxoxo wrote: »One of tbese days ZOS should have a mini fashion contest in this thread lol. Some of y'all are so creative. Like I didn't even think of "What would a Bosmer dance," look like but I think you nailed it @Sumevala
Aww, you just made my day! Thank you!
Sumevala
1
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 1 Summary
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Ketryellowynne wrote: »
Let’s please address the elephant in the room. Healers. Supports, yes, but then you didn’t need to say tanks as well. Keep healers relevant.
For class passives specifically make something for every class that is determined by overheal (not heal). Reading the passives as they have existed to this point makes me terrified that you will end up writing healers as a role out of optimized end game entirely. We already see it in dungeons and arenas, running 3 DPS and a tank because “why would we run a healer if DDs can self-sustain and then we get more damage”? We already see it in current end game optimization where it’s common to run 1 heal, 1 tank.
My concern is that as DDs become more self sufficient and less necessity is placed on healing as a concept, end game groups will eliminate healers entirely because everything they provide can be provided equally as well by a support DD with 1 or 2 heals if necessary.
Example: Major Courage. As a very important buff, this has probably been the single most important thing for keeping healers relevant in the game since the best source (SPC) procs on overheal for 12 party members, no cooldown, potential 100% uptime with someone who plays it well enough. Adding this buff to a single skill on a werewolf is an enormous slap in the face. Where there aren’t specific heal checks, an optimized team can run a werewolf for Major courage instead of a healer at all. While this hasn’t been an issue previously (people choosing banners or Zenas, or soul burst or Yolna for minor courage instead of a werewolf in group), that was because it would be a net loss of damage to run a werewolf. In this case, with the emotional support doggo replacing the healer, it ends up a net increase rather than loss, assuming other buffs can still be sourced elsewhere.
Currently, the only buff that can only be sourced through healing is minor toughness. With Major courage more easily sourceable outside of healing, there becomes very few reasons to run a designated healer as opposed to only running support DDs in much optimized 12 man content.
KEEP HEALERS RELEVANT.
The class passives are an excellent opportunity to do this, but only if you model them with this in mind rather than just your damage or even just supports as a whole. Make a reason for a healer to be there instead of removing the existing ones.
(Edited for autocorrect sabotaging spelling)
You could probably solve this by allowing the WW Major Courage to only apply to other WWs.
So that it is a functional SPC replacement for all-WW groups, who otherwise have no means to source the buff group-wide, but it does not obviate the actual healer in more traditional groups.
Best of both worlds.
We want Werewolves to be useful in non-WW groups, too. Werewolves don't always play in WW-only groups, and we would love to be welcomed in regular groups for high end PvE/PvP.
Sure, but not at the cost of displacing regular healers.
Hand-waiving the issue with, "Yeah, find something else for healers to do... in the future... yeah..." is not a viable proposal. WW changes are on the table now. The problem should be solved now. Whereas there is zero timetable or even any reason to assume that such a change to regular healers would ever be forthcoming.
It is one thing for WWs to be basically "Oakensoul, the ultimate" with all of these easily sourced comparatively rare buffs for themselves and other WWs. But that should not extend into the rest of the game or turn over the tea table on roles that have existed for a decade.
Like someone else said, make a buff that is actually unique to WWs and let a WW DD bring that to a raid. This Major Courage change is the WW version of DKs snatching away Major Berserk from Sorcerers. It's just robbing one role to pay-off another role in a very zero-sum fashion.
Regular healers will not be displaced. We shouldn't even require specific Item Sets for a healer to be "legitimate". If it's expected that every healer uses a Restoration Staff, then the Major Courage should be moved from Spell Power Cure into the Restoration Staff passives — when healing or overhealing with a Restoration Staff equipped, grant the target Major Courage (or some other desired buff).
The way I see it, this change encourages healers to also be Werewolves. They can revert form to heal others when necessary, but when healing is not necessary, they can play as a Werewolf (part of the goal of U50 is to encourage Magicka specs to play it) to deal damage while still offering Major Courage to the group.
In other words, you can expect groups to require their healers to be Werewolves, not their damage dealers. Healers are still relevant, even when healing itself isn't.
Re: Writhing Wall Event Update
Wow there was no advertising of the event, so missed it again...
Re: Nerf to Ansuul’s, Tide-born, and Velothi is gutting my Arcanist build
If Skinny's back of the envelope math is correct, a Tideborn/Velothi build would lose 10%. That is fairly significant. Add in Ansuul, and it's more like 15-20%. (Again, back of the envelope math by Skinny).
But, nerfing both Velothi and Empower, and other sets that are set and forget (i.e. no stacks) really hits the folks who have accessibility issues or physical issues preventing good weaving.
With oakensoul still in the tank, we're getting hit pretty hard.
I had been working on my DPS, and weaving, to try to get into a few prog groups. No chance, now. I was already barely going to hit the bottom acceptable numbers, thanks to my arthritis.
But, nerfing both Velothi and Empower, and other sets that are set and forget (i.e. no stacks) really hits the folks who have accessibility issues or physical issues preventing good weaving.
With oakensoul still in the tank, we're getting hit pretty hard.
I had been working on my DPS, and weaving, to try to get into a few prog groups. No chance, now. I was already barely going to hit the bottom acceptable numbers, thanks to my arthritis.
allochthons
16
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 1 Summary
@Ketryellowynne great write-up and thank you for responding to the response to me so I don't have to hahaha. Gave you an awesome!
And if there's multiple wolves, anyone could be the owner of them. That said... berserker has glowing red eyes and pack master doesn't.
Nord_Raseri wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »[*] We have seen the feedback regarding the glowing markings on the Werewolf model for Ultimate Morphs, ranging from toning down the intensity of the glow to removing the glow entirely.
I would prefer to be able to remove the markings entirely. Not just the glow.
Part of reason for markings is differentiate the morphs of WW.
Yes, they mentioned this is the stream. My question is why though? Pack leader already has dire wolves so that'sobvious.
Also, I personally never understood the "need to see what other players are using" argument because I'm typically too busy trying not to die to analyze what skill morph another player is using.
Yes pack leader has the dire wolves but they could have been killed and then you wouldn’t know. I get it I’m not paying to much attention to what morphs someone is using but players do think on that
And if there's multiple wolves, anyone could be the owner of them. That said... berserker has glowing red eyes and pack master doesn't.
Soarora
3
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
huskandhunger wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »CalamityCat wrote: »I would happily support a nerf if there was adequate information to support it. There isn't. I don't play WW so I have no reason whatsoever to want them OP. Let's see this "OP WW" on a templar base or a NB or necro. Just anything that isn't a sorc or DK where they're clearly performing well as we'd all expect.No, WW itself is still too strong. I could have Pelican on WW and myself on Sorc/DK, both without class masteries, and WW would still be significantly stronger.
But I know that most people here wouldn't want to accept that fact either. I can already see the dismissive comments like "It's just a 1v1" or "We don't know how it performs in Cyro/BG/etc". Those were the exact comments used to argue with me when I raised concern about old Sorc and reworked DK being overperforming. It didn't take long for multiple threads to occur after those patches went live, CONFIRMING my concern.
Look I get it, you and many people here want WW to stay as it is, and that's fair. But let's not try to sugarcoat it with balance discussions, as a simple fight on PTS clearly shows otherwise. Just state the blatantly obvious intention that you and many others want WW to overperform for once. That I can understand.
If the WW itself is the problem, rather than the base it's on, it would be over performing on everything. But let's be honest, the issue is with specific combinations + WW. It looks like a couple of builds that create a stronger base and the combination(s) need adjusted. Not a blanket nerf to WW. You're asking for the devs to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It's 100% fair for others to ask for genuine proof that the WW deserves it. We aren't just trying to keep WW OP, we're just trying to avoid a completely unnecessary nerf because a few players don't like WW and/or single bar PvP builds.
A static duel is totally different from BGs and Cyro or IC where fights are mobile and the WW can't get the damage done as easily. So yes, some of us are going to mention that difference and be interested in seeing more "realistic" fights. I was in Cyro with my guild last night. Literally all that was said about WW was "I hear werewolves are winning duels now" lol. None of us are remotely worried that a WW ballgroup will appear or that we'll be torn up in IC or BGs. Nobody will be worried unless we see something of concern.
Nobody is asking too much when they want to see the results across a range of examples and situations. It's called making an informed decision. I can't make an informed decision with only a few pieces of information. So if the WW is so so bad, and some of you are that concerned, it's not too much trouble to show different base class builds and more realistic fights.
Why in the heck would you play a nb/templar WW ? Even without the class masteries if you were going to play a WW you picked the class you were going to do it on based on what class passives had the best synergy with WW.
“Just show that you can do the same on this much worse setup people are not going to use” is basically what you are asking.
As a Templar main werewolf player, the Templar side is something I chose when I first started the game because I enjoyed the thematic and fantasy of it. I don't want to play on Dragonknight no matter how powerful they are currently, or a Sorcerer streaking around like a lightning bolt, or a ninja Nightblade.
Yep I agree with you - I am a NB werewolf main since 2014. If Sorc wolf ends up the most powerful oh well I will still be playing my same nb werewolf toon. But hopefully they just balance whatever is going on with sorc specifically. It would be nice for each option for pure classed werewolf to be viable and cool and have their own flavor.
I think I can speak for the many werewolf mains when I say that we are not meta chasers, and don’t have the need for WW to be more OP than everything else. To think that would be laughable considering that well, we have played werewolf through thick and thin even with hardened ward sorcs, sorcdens, current day DKs, all the people spec bowing us while purging and shielding etc and all the other metas we’ve had to face.
I’m doubtful that ww is overperforming outside of a few fringe interactions with sets and passives in a specific build (which should be looked at) especially considering all the drawbacks we face in normal game situations that have been outline previously.
Overall, I’m excited about the coming of the greatest variety of werewolf build options we have ever got to enjoy for both PvE and PvP, with a cool new model and animations and stuff. Gonna be great!
I trust the work ZOS has done to this point, and the additional work they will do to get this right. Good work ZOS!
Also p.s. once again let us be faster pls!
