kiwi_tea wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I just dont get it, what gain is there? Its a 10 year old gamemode that hasnt seen change or new rewards in a decade. There is nothing to win at or farm anymore.....

Chances are its more like people are bored and just hanging out with friends.

If people are farming AP for emp, that is how zos designed the system. Not that emp has much use. The boost to max stats hardly compares to fighting a ball group where their set bonuses are worth 10x a normal 5piece.

Ap is pointless as there is nothing to spend it on. Most pvpers have a seemingly infinite supply now.

Not much Clout to gain as everyone knows the leaderboard is pointless since it isnt based on actual skill by any means. It is only a measure of who plays the most in a stale gamemode.

The factions and campaign locks only server the purpose to drive crownstore alliance swaps and prevent people from playing the game for a month. Anyone who wants to spy can just log in an alt account for 2$. Basically crippling the normal playerbase while making a pavement crack to step over for the nonexistant cheaters

I agree with all you said, but the point is obvious.

The point is bullying newer players who have the audacity to try to get emp achievements without already knowing exactly how busted and meaningless the PVP system really is. There's always plenty of new people wanting emp, and there's a nasty element who find it incredibly funny to game the system to deny them access.

In the case of BR, the point is also to skew a campaign by making it so only a single faction can ever have an active emperor by boosting into emp on the competing faction but never actually playing that toon seriously.

This dynamic boils down to a dead game. Nobody cares anymore, the game holds no weight. There is next to nothing to gain or people to impress in the gamemode. So what if a dead campaign is ruined even more, it is dead and cant get more dead-er.

It wont matter until there is more player involvement and population. Cyrodil has had a declining playerbase for more than 8 years now. After one tamriel and the swap to horizontal progression, people started skipping over lowbie pvp and nocp pvp because they climbed so fast. At the same time the loss in new players progressing through lowbie into nocp into vet cp has been cut off. So now the only experience new players has to learn cyrodil is entering Greyhost. With the horizontal progression power creep, the gap has dramatically widened from a base new player to a 10 year endgame vet player. So these gaps are only compounding to gate new players from entering pvp.

So we essentially gated new people from joining while also catering to the groups of players that cause lag and ruin the endgame experience effectively making people leave even faster.

@SaffronCitrusflower This is from another post, but I had written out a bunch of potential rule changes that would be possible using the vengeance platform with new PvP separated skills or designs. Considering they already talked about doing different aoe cap concepts it would be a good time to suggest any or all of these concepts.

• maybe spammable skills like surprise attack or dizzy swing go back to being simpler and do not have 3-4 effects on them with paragraph explanations. These animations can be kept simple and performative while also having more important animations like CC being the most visible and understood. Then more rarely used higher cost skills like streak would be later on in the tree.
• Maybe less skills have aoe elements that dont need them. Maybe costs are higher and ramp
• Maybe dots hots and effects do not stack like they used to
• Maybe status effects should be simplified non stacking debuffs applied by certain actions
• Maybe heals need to be more aimed single targets like their damage counterparts are, instead of giant aoe conal smart heals that go through walls
• Maybe aoe heals and buffs shouldnt transfer outside of group, but the targeted simplified ones can.
• Maybe group sets need to be far more situational and shorter duration instead of giving a constant 1500-3000wd bonus per 5 piece with 100% uptime.
• maybe aoe dot skills shouldnt update each tick and should snapshot stats at cast.

reazea wrote: »

Forcing us to play vengeance is a slap to the face. ZOS shouldn't even be putting time into developing a new PvP system. They should fix the system they already have.

It will interesting to see how it goes with no golden pursuit to draw the PvE mains though.

How do you suppose they fix the system they already have? You realize they will have to test regardless..... Which people will complain about regardless....... So what's the difference? I am atleast happy that we are getting more effort than them just disabling a system and then going nope didnt work, ok we give up. They already attempted strip tests from live several times with no results. It only makes sense to go from the other side of the problem and make a platform where you can add in systems one at a time to find issues.

Its no different than having 50 addons and an error. Either you get a clear crash message and can pinpoint a fix, or the message is unclear and you have to investigate. Maybe you can guess and disable the 1/50 addon that is causing the issue. Maybe you can't after a few attempts and decide it is better to disable all addons and slowly add them back in until the error pops up again.

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The problem is that the way zos has been poorly communicating their intent is making PvP players avoid the test. People are essentially boycotting it hoping it sends the message that people dont like template pvp. They don't want pvp to boil down to just unmorphed skills which is all that vengeance is right now. Test wise it has to be like this, sets can't come back until a handful of other base game systems are rewritten and introduced. You cant have sets without stat changes, stat changes don't matter unless skills are based on stats, etc.

I disagree with the boycott concept because it is counterintuitive. We already know player dilution matters. A vet pvper will induce thousands of times more lag than a brand new player who sits on the walls light attacking from 80m away. So when you boycott all you do is allow more pugs into the server who exponentially show better server performance. At the end of the day your boycott made vengeance look better data wise from what zos sees.

Also as a pvper you are shooting yourself in the foot at rejecting the only serious involvement we got in a decade. So would you rather wait another decade while complaining? I just don't get it, ive been waiting since 2015 to get a fix. The same people complain about lag say something needs to be tested and fixed, but then they wont allow the test to happen? Make up your mind or at least dont be hypocritical, state that you enjoy the lag and don't want live pvp to change.