Best Of
Re: Addressing U50 PTS Combat & Ability Concerns
I'd like some buff to templar passive for the damage, it feels like still lackluster
Mizael
1
Re: Shattered Paths Signet Is Problematic
>33% of damage coming from status effects with zero counterplay isn't healthy gameplay. Status effects are consistently top 3 damage received every single engagement it seems, even without pulse gankers present.
High damage with counterplay is good. High damage without counterplay is bad.
I’m not playing dumb I’m actually dumb. What does this CMX thing show me? Was this a duel or BG or what is this?
Damage received in a scrappy cyrodiil fight with heavy line of sight against 3-5 players at different moments. Guess I should have given context, my fault.
React
1
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
Avran_Sylt wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »Pinktraining wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Pinktraining wrote: »Exposing tedious mathematical arguments doesn't prove that Reverberation's current state is acceptable. In fact, it only makes people dislike Sorc and Reverberation more. Nobody likes having to calculate probabilities in the tense atmosphere of PvP. Reverberation either needs to be nerfed to a 5-second cooldown or have its damage nerfed by 50%, otherwise there's absolutely no reason to accept the current version of Reverberation into the live server.
Can NB mains who have absolutely zero clue about sorcerer stop commenting on sorcerers trying to get them deleted from the game.
It's been 10+ years already, enough is enough, stick to your own class and let others have a chance to have fun playing their class.
What does this have to do with "Nightblade players"? Don't "Nightblade players" have the right to comment on balance? Or do you not want the game to be balanced so you can continue to dominate with Sorc?
Even more absurd is that some people actually think Pressure Points are better than Expert Mage. How can 2.5% Critical Chance be better than 108 Weapon Damage? Don't forget that in PvP, all experienced players have very high Critical Resistance; 2.5% Critical Chance is practically useless! Even in PvE, 108 Weapon Damage is better because Sorc can recover more health using Surge and Blood Magic!
You're playing the wrong game man. The past year with subclassing NB's Assassination line has dominated the meta including other crit related skill lines to stack Crit Damage to ridiculous levels with delayed burst.
Every build needs a Major Resolve skill, so you have 7 options, the most obvious come down to Restoring Light and Storm Calling. Rune Focus is great, but if you don't need the sustain and prefer offense, Storm Calling is much more advantageous due to having well balanced passives and the best mobility skill in the game. Just so happens that during this crit meta, players are picking up Assassination and Animal Companions, both of which have Crit Damage, and you also need a Major Brutality/Sustain skill, to which Betty works well for. This pushes out the great Restoring Light line in favour of Storm Calling.
No one is picking up Storm Calling strictly for their 108 w/s damage, and not a single person is touching Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning the same way no one is touching Shadow or Siphoning. So what exactly is your point? Assassination has some of, if not the best passives and abilities in the game, why would you even begin to compare these in a vaccum like that?
Is it PVE? Crit chance is also meta there, Assassination, and Herald of the Tome are the top picks on every build, but it's hard to take you seriously when you're the same person that said Sorc has the best cleave in the game because of Empower + Overload. We get it, you hate Sorc, cool. News flash, both NB and Sorc have similar problems of being prejudiced against for dealing too much single target DPS while ignoring the fact that they have more complex rotations, reliant on weaving, and no cleave. We're in the same boat.
This whole discussion started based on the notion that proc sets and status effects proc Static Reverb which is completely false. No one here is trying to knock NB down, in fact many of us commented on how underpowered the Masteries were.
This is a thread about class mastery.
Technically also Scribing class mastery as well (see Warden Charm): the base class. Not just a stat-stick subclass skill-line.
Just because one line in combination with another set of sublclasses lines doesn't make pureclass NB somehow cream of the crop.
Just like how you not that even with the games best mobility+stun in the game, Stormcalling is a great line as well.
Personally speaking, IMO a 1-slot mobility/stun is much more versatile than the Assassination skill-line when pureclassing. (especially in a skill-line that can use Overload LA into Streak into Overload LA)
I totally agree, but you're coming into a conversation that is like 2 pages deep and entirely missed the point of my comment.
Wasn't really about subclassing performance or pitting NB against Sorc, I didn't do that, I don't care about that, it's the person I commented to that is trying to pit them against each other when both classes have the same problems right now.
They're meant as single target machines, but any time their damage gets too high, ZOS lowers them, which would be fine if there was compensation to their cleave, but there isn't, they both remain among the worst aoe classes in the game. Both classes have 1 really popular line as I brought up, and 2 nearly dead lines.
It's become increasingly obvious that Pink is out to get Sorc for whatever reason with comments like "Empower + Overload and Oakensoul Sorc is the best cleave PVE DPS in the game". In what universe? This same person is creating false comparisons like Sorc's 108 w/s damage vs NB's 6% mag/stam despite both classes having more obvious comparisons I brought up.
Ever heard the saying.. "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."?
Knocking down other classes with false claims and strawman arguments is not how you get your own class buffed. What's funny is the same Sorc mains in this conversation, including myself, have commented that NB's need buffs to their Mastery's, but we find ourselves debating with these obvious NB trolls about Static Reverb NOT proccing from Status Effects or Proc Sets... or new claims like "Empower + Overload and Shattering Spine are the best cleave in the game". Come on.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
Static Reverberation
This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.
Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example
1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane
10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.
Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.
I have to disagree here.
You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.
Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.
To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.
Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.
Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.
These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.
What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?
Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.
That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.
This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.
If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.
I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.
Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.
My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...
I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.
Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.
And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.
Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.
Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.
When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.
When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.
In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.
If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.
For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.
Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.
Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.
Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.
But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.
Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...
That’s not how this passive works.
If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).
In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.
That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.
Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.
There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.
Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.
I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.
Of course you can proc it more than once with a single skill, no its not hard and no it doesnt take a single gcd per proc.
Here is a single BA proccing it 3 times
Here is a single RS doing the same
Here is me proccing it 4 times a second with nothing but a la and a skill. Keep in mind that proccing it 4 times a sec should be hard because of the 0.3 sec cd but again, no it isnt because nobody deals all their damage in 0.3 sec intervals anyway, trying to fit all your damage in that little time bubble would actually be harder than not proccing it multiple times.
So yes i agree with you, proccing this passive more than once a second shouldnt be a thing with battle spirit active and i really hope Zos takes notice and adjusts it accordingly ...
You’re not proccing it 3 or 4 times per second, you’re proccing it 3 or 4 times per skill.
In the case of BA, yes, that is the only skill where 3 out of the 4 procs can occur within one second, the 4th would spill into the following second. But there’s a caveat here with BA in that in order to do this you have to have at least 3 or 4 charges, otherwise one cannot do this. BA isn’t a spammable skill so it’s not accurate to say that a Sorc could just use this skill as a means to excessively proc the passive in PvP.
Rapid Strikes takes more than a second to complete and more than 0.3 per strike to deliver so, yes, while it can proc multiple occurrences of the passive, it’s not doing so in less than a second it’s doing so per application which goes to pacing.
Lastly, using the skills on a low health target dummy isn’t reflective of actual PvP combat because you can whittle the health down and ensure a high proc chance which ignores the entire duration of wearing the health down, when the passive wasn’t proccing.
Get into a duel or any PvP venue and we won’t see these same results so when I say testing doesn’t show what your complaint is about that’s what I mean. Dummy parsing only shows that multiple instances of the passive can occur, which we all know, what it doesn’t show is the multiple instances happening collectively in under one second or in a PvP situation.
The only skill that can proc in less than a second is BA but for the charge up pacing reasons I mentioned before it’s not a reliable source of consistent proc which means it’s definitely not broken or in need of a nerf.
You were saying that it literally cant be done so i posted an example where it clearly is done, can we stop moving goalposts?
True, it showed that the passive can be procced multiple times in one second; but your call for a nerf made it sound like it was “too easy to do” (your words), when in truth only one skill can do it and it’s a skill that’s not popular to slot.
What you showed is also exactly what I’ve been saying in that there’s no basis to justify any nerf to this passive.
In fact, if we look at the dummy parse tests you rigged up, we can see the DPS values are pretty low, and that’s with crit being factored in. Using BA, the only skill that can proc multiple in under one second only yielded a measly 700 DPS; that’s the kind of values that should have a nerf?
A call to nerf Static is based on all sizzle and no steak; there’s no facts here that show that this passive is a consistent over performer. The target health chance reduces the skills effectiveness to mid health and below, the damage scaling is “mid” at best, and only one skill has any chance of proccing multiple stacks per second and that skill is poor; every other skill that can proc stacks will take more than one second and gets balanced by combat pacing.
NxJoeyD
3
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
Static Reverberation
This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.
Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example
1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane
10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.
Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.
I have to disagree here.
You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.
Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.
To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.
Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.
Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.
These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.
What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?
Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.
That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.
This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.
If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.
I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.
Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.
My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...
I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.
Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.
And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.
Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.
Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.
When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.
When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.
In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.
If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.
For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.
Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.
Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.
Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.
But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.
Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...
That’s not how this passive works.
If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).
In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.
That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.
Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.
There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.
Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.
I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.
Of course you can proc it more than once with a single skill, no its not hard and no it doesnt take a single gcd per proc.
Here is a single BA proccing it 3 times
Here is a single RS doing the same
Here is me proccing it 4 times a second with nothing but a la and a skill. Keep in mind that proccing it 4 times a sec should be hard because of the 0.3 sec cd but again, no it isnt because nobody deals all their damage in 0.3 sec intervals anyway, trying to fit all your damage in that little time bubble would actually be harder than not proccing it multiple times.
So yes i agree with you, proccing this passive more than once a second shouldnt be a thing with battle spirit active and i really hope Zos takes notice and adjusts it accordingly ...
You’re not proccing it 3 or 4 times per second, you’re proccing it 3 or 4 times per skill.
In the case of BA, yes, that is the only skill where 3 out of the 4 procs can occur within one second, the 4th would spill into the following second. But there’s a caveat here with BA in that in order to do this you have to have at least 3 or 4 charges, otherwise one cannot do this. BA isn’t a spammable skill so it’s not accurate to say that a Sorc could just use this skill as a means to excessively proc the passive in PvP.
Rapid Strikes takes more than a second to complete and more than 0.3 per strike to deliver so, yes, while it can proc multiple occurrences of the passive, it’s not doing so in less than a second it’s doing so per application which goes to pacing.
Lastly, using the skills on a low health target dummy isn’t reflective of actual PvP combat because you can whittle the health down and ensure a high proc chance which ignores the entire duration of wearing the health down, when the passive wasn’t proccing.
Get into a duel or any PvP venue and we won’t see these same results so when I say testing doesn’t show what your complaint is about that’s what I mean. Dummy parsing only shows that multiple instances of the passive can occur, which we all know, what it doesn’t show is the multiple instances happening collectively in under one second or in a PvP situation.
The only skill that can proc in less than a second is BA but for the charge up pacing reasons I mentioned before it’s not a reliable source of consistent proc which means it’s definitely not broken or in need of a nerf.
Just a friendly query. Are you certain that Bound Armaments is rarely used and that it's bad? Whenever I see any video or stream played as Sorc, they will have Bound Armaments and use it all the time. I dislike that skill, because it does not synergize with Overload centric statregies, but it seems to deal more damage for me than Crystal Fragments with all its Sundered procs.
It’s bad in the sense that other skills exist that out perform it.
It’s hard to make a solid case for BA when Merciless provides the same exact buffs, scales to higher damage, has a potential heal component, and performs its function faster.
Granted Merciless costs Mag but in real combat it’s less of a factor for a Stam build to slot a Mag sourced skill as opposed to a Mag build slotting a Stam sourced skill; especially in PvP.
NxJoeyD
3
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
MashmalloMan wrote: »Static Reverberation
This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.
Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example
1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane
10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.
Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.
I have to disagree here.
You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.
Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.
To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.
Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.
Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.
These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.
What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?
Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.
That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.
This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.
If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.
I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.
Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.
My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...
I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.
Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.
And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.
Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.
Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.
When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.
When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.
In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.
If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.
For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.
Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.
Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.
Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.
But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.
Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...
That’s not how this passive works.
If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).
In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.
That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.
Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.
There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.
Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.
I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.
Of course you can proc it more than once with a single skill, no its not hard and no it doesnt take a single gcd per proc.
Here is a single BA proccing it 3 times
Here is a single RS doing the same
Here is me proccing it 4 times a second with nothing but a la and a skill. Keep in mind that proccing it 4 times a sec should be hard because of the 0.3 sec cd but again, no it isnt because nobody deals all their damage in 0.3 sec intervals anyway, trying to fit all your damage in that little time bubble would actually be harder than not proccing it multiple times.
So yes i agree with you, proccing this passive more than once a second shouldnt be a thing with battle spirit active and i really hope Zos takes notice and adjusts it accordingly ...
You’re not proccing it 3 or 4 times per second, you’re proccing it 3 or 4 times per skill.
In the case of BA, yes, that is the only skill where 3 out of the 4 procs can occur within one second, the 4th would spill into the following second. But there’s a caveat here with BA in that in order to do this you have to have at least 3 or 4 charges, otherwise one cannot do this. BA isn’t a spammable skill so it’s not accurate to say that a Sorc could just use this skill as a means to excessively proc the passive in PvP.
Rapid Strikes takes more than a second to complete and more than 0.3 per strike to deliver so, yes, while it can proc multiple occurrences of the passive, it’s not doing so in less than a second it’s doing so per application which goes to pacing.
Lastly, using the skills on a low health target dummy isn’t reflective of actual PvP combat because you can whittle the health down and ensure a high proc chance which ignores the entire duration of wearing the health down, when the passive wasn’t proccing.
Get into a duel or any PvP venue and we won’t see these same results so when I say testing doesn’t show what your complaint is about that’s what I mean. Dummy parsing only shows that multiple instances of the passive can occur, which we all know, what it doesn’t show is the multiple instances happening collectively in under one second or in a PvP situation.
The only skill that can proc in less than a second is BA but for the charge up pacing reasons I mentioned before it’s not a reliable source of consistent proc which means it’s definitely not broken or in need of a nerf.
Just a friendly query. Are you certain that Bound Armaments is rarely used and that it's bad? Whenever I see any video or stream played as Sorc, they will have Bound Armaments and use it all the time. I dislike that skill, because it does not synergize with Overload centric statregies, but it seems to deal more damage for me than Crystal Fragments with all its Sundered procs.
With Sundered, yes it does more, but the reason Stam Sorc's generally don't like using is 2 fold:
- Probably the easiest to dodge ability in the game = Daggers have a 0.25s delay; 1m range is 0.6s~1.35s and 28m is 1.1s~1.85s. Grim Focus is 0.35s~1.1s, and Insta Frag is 0.53~1.08s. Since the damage is spread out, it not only reduces burst, but it makes it highly telegraphed to dodge all or at least half of the ability.
- It has a 10s timer = Nearly useless for melee builds on a Sorc that frequently finds itself weaving in and out of combat to reset with Streak/Dark Deal. It's much better for a ranged build, but then you're getting into that massive delay I discussed above.
Great damage overall, but not bursty, easy to avoid, and frankly annoying to use because you frequently lose stacks. Grim Focus stacks last forever, hit faster, harder, and heal in melee, all while being in a much better skill line. Frag is just more consistent, random but still ends up once every 3s vs once every 5-7s due to losing stacks or wasted skill casts.
The only streamers I really saw run it were Epic, Sekar, and Eman.. and I'm pretty sure it's just because they were so used to the Stam Sorc playstyle, they didn't really adapt with hybridization. I asked epic once and he just said he didn't like Curse, and I mean I agree because it can be purged, but I still find it easier to use and line up than BA. BA's one saving grace is that it works well with "Damage Done" bonuses since it ticks multiple times, it's better for pressure, Frag/Curse is better for consistent burst.
At one point I did some math before Signet became a thing for BA vs Relentless Focus. BA was -20% at 0 Sunder, -10% at 1, equal at 2, +10% at 3, and +20% at 4. Take that information as you will, personally, feels worse to me and I subclassed out Daedric Summoning any chance I got. Mind you, Mercilous is much better, but 5 stacks is harder to compare.
Put it this way.. BA is so unreliable, that before it got double stacks, Major Savagery, and Sunder chance, I had it slotted 99% of the time just for the 8% Max HP and 8% Max Stamina. I rarely ever casted it because it didn't do enough.
Edit: The chance for BA is 15% per Dagger now, it used to be 3%. BA is single target direct damage, so it should of had 10% to begin with, but that's an entirely seperate issue I have with ZOS and their inability to code things properly or consistently. At a 15% chance and no bonuses, you'll average 0.6 Sunder per cast, less than 1, with 2 pieces of Charged it becomes an average of 2 Sundered procs a cast, slightly more with CP.
Ah it is a pleasure. You always take so much time to make your point and give practical and proven examples. You have my thanks.
I am glad you say this, because I do not like Bound Armaments, but seeing everyone use it made me feel forced into it. Now I feel a bit more at ease for not using it. I still wonder if all those people can be so wrong. Usually when I see a Sorc, I will also see those floating daggers.
Well thank you, you too
Me too, but as we've discussed recently, a popularity contest doesn't mean something is objectively good. I haven't genuinly ever felt threatened by it the same way I would for Incap, Merc, Shalks, Curse, Frags, Whip, Deep Breath, etc, any other burst skill I can think of is more deadly.
Don't get me wrong, it's decent from range when so much is dodged anyway, might be even better this patch with Signet, D Staff, and CP for an average of 3 Sunders a cast, but why not just use Force Pulse builds for 3~7 status effects a cast. Static Reverb might also make it more advantagous to pick with U50 if you really wanted to build for it.
Mind you, BA includes Major Savagery/Prophecy, and a pure Sorc only has 3 options via Camo Hunter, Inner Light, or potions. Since they've picked Daedric Summoning, they're already choosing fantasy/role play over min/maxing with subclassing, BA by comparison to those 3 becomes more advantagous, especially when you consider Minor Berserk is provided by Mono and/or Dark Deal.
Either way, it has potential if they bumped up stack duration and all daggers landed closer together. The DPS isn't really the problem anymore with Sunder closing the gap ever so slightly.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
Pinktraining wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »Pinktraining wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Pinktraining wrote: »Exposing tedious mathematical arguments doesn't prove that Reverberation's current state is acceptable. In fact, it only makes people dislike Sorc and Reverberation more. Nobody likes having to calculate probabilities in the tense atmosphere of PvP. Reverberation either needs to be nerfed to a 5-second cooldown or have its damage nerfed by 50%, otherwise there's absolutely no reason to accept the current version of Reverberation into the live server.
Can NB mains who have absolutely zero clue about sorcerer stop commenting on sorcerers trying to get them deleted from the game.
It's been 10+ years already, enough is enough, stick to your own class and let others have a chance to have fun playing their class.
What does this have to do with "Nightblade players"? Don't "Nightblade players" have the right to comment on balance? Or do you not want the game to be balanced so you can continue to dominate with Sorc?
Even more absurd is that some people actually think Pressure Points are better than Expert Mage. How can 2.5% Critical Chance be better than 108 Weapon Damage? Don't forget that in PvP, all experienced players have very high Critical Resistance; 2.5% Critical Chance is practically useless! Even in PvE, 108 Weapon Damage is better because Sorc can recover more health using Surge and Blood Magic!
You're playing the wrong game man. The past year with subclassing NB's Assassination line has dominated the meta including other crit related skill lines to stack Crit Damage to ridiculous levels with delayed burst.
Every build needs a Major Resolve skill, so you have 7 options, the most obvious come down to Restoring Light and Storm Calling. Rune Focus is great, but if you don't need the sustain and prefer offense, Storm Calling is much more advantageous due to having well balanced passives and the best mobility skill in the game. Just so happens that during this crit meta, players are picking up Assassination and Animal Companions, both of which have Crit Damage, and you also need a Major Brutality/Sustain skill, to which Betty works well for. This pushes out the great Restoring Light line in favour of Storm Calling.
No one is picking up Storm Calling strictly for their 108 w/s damage, and not a single person is touching Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning the same way no one is touching Shadow or Siphoning. So what exactly is your point? Assassination has some of, if not the best passives and abilities in the game, why would you even begin to compare these in a vaccum like that?
Is it PVE? Crit chance is also meta there, Assassination, and Herald of the Tome are the top picks on every build, but it's hard to take you seriously when you're the same person that said Sorc has the best cleave in the game because of Empower + Overload. We get it, you hate Sorc, cool. News flash, both NB and Sorc have similar problems of being prejudiced against for dealing too much single target DPS while ignoring the fact that they have more complex rotations, reliant on weaving, and no cleave. We're in the same boat.
This whole discussion started based on the notion that proc sets and status effects proc Static Reverb which is completely false. No one here is trying to knock NB down, in fact many of us commented on how underpowered the Masteries were.
Sorc has no shortage of AoE damage now. With class mastery, Sorc can deal considerable AoE damage through Conservation of Energy and Shattering Spines. Shattering Spines is undoubtedly Sorc's most powerful AoE spam, not to mention it also inflicts immobilize and Major Maim, effects that are extremely useful in both PvP and PvE.
Can we stop pretending Sorc is weak? Since U35, Sorc has undoubtedly been the strongest and most played class. The ubiquitous Lightning Staves heavy attacks are proof enough.
You’re joking right? … nobody slots Shattering Spines, it’s a dog water skill that only does damage to enemies that were “encased”. Given how many sources of immobilization immunity there are in the game nobody with any experience in the game would slot this skill in PvP. There’s better sources of Maim.
AoE effects work in PvP but the mechanics behind Sorcs AoE skill are pretty weak. Lightning Flood and any of the ground based AoEs are easily avoidable. Arguably Atro is the best AoE in the Sorc tool kit and it’s an Ult, but compare that to Necro’s Colossus which deals 3x high scaling bursts and applies a more beneficial direct status effect, whereas Atro applies ones lesser scaling burst and offers a buff only triggered by an ally synergy, not even the Sorc themselves can trigger it.
In PvP crit & burst are king and Sorcs have neither. The only “go-to” Sorcs have are heavy attack builds which is extremely limited and really more viable for PvE than PvP .. Even with that Sorc skills aren’t at the top of the Logs in PvE, Arcanists are.
NxJoeyD
3
Re: Is there a way to instantly improve gear from white - gold in one click?
That friction, where you need to improve it 5 times, was actually a large part of the reason behind set crafter. (The other major part was those awful side scrollers in the crafting screen)
The first time I automatically improved a piece of gear from white all the way to purple is still one of the most satisfying coding moments I've ever had.
The first time I automatically improved a piece of gear from white all the way to purple is still one of the most satisfying coding moments I've ever had.
Dolgubon
10
Re: Addressing U50 PTS Combat & Ability Concerns
You mentioned not understanding why Sorcerer is said to be weak, and mentioned that its DPS was so high the first week.
I am quite sure the main complain people have about Sorcerer is its lack of group utility and cleave damage. Its damage having been the highest against parse dummies never had any real value to it, as Sorcerer doesn't offer the dearly needed cleave damage nowadays and also nothing unique to groups in general.
All Sorcerer offered anymore was Major Berserk through the Atronach; which Dragonknight received as a class mastery and does better than the Atronach. And the 6% spell damage from Calculated Defense or the recovery from Sphere of Influence don't do much to solve this when other classes already have more group utility to begin with, and get it boosted tremendously by their class masteries.
This is why Sorcerer is said to be weak; not because of some single target dummy during week 1. People have explained this at length in all of the feedback threads, so there is no way anyone can say they do not understand why this is being said.
I am quite sure the main complain people have about Sorcerer is its lack of group utility and cleave damage. Its damage having been the highest against parse dummies never had any real value to it, as Sorcerer doesn't offer the dearly needed cleave damage nowadays and also nothing unique to groups in general.
All Sorcerer offered anymore was Major Berserk through the Atronach; which Dragonknight received as a class mastery and does better than the Atronach. And the 6% spell damage from Calculated Defense or the recovery from Sphere of Influence don't do much to solve this when other classes already have more group utility to begin with, and get it boosted tremendously by their class masteries.
This is why Sorcerer is said to be weak; not because of some single target dummy during week 1. People have explained this at length in all of the feedback threads, so there is no way anyone can say they do not understand why this is being said.
Dracane
15
Re: Addressing U50 PTS Combat & Ability Concerns
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Nightblades have seen commentary that their Class Mastery passives feel weaker to those of other classes, and it doesn’t help with burst-damage or resource sustainability. We do want to note we buffed the Nightblade crit cap to be higher than other classes and this also applies to healing. However, there may be some specific subclassing builds that are overperforming, and we’ll keep an eye on this.
From a damage perspective, the Crit Cap increase in PVP doesn't do anything because moving from subclassing, you're giving up -20% or more Crit Damage by not having access to Animal/Herald/Aedric/Earthen, and you only get a base 5% in return. Crit Resist directly counters Crit Damage and the effective cap.
The current meta will have every player with 30~60% Crit Resist, this is from base 20%, 10% from 5x Impen, 10% from CP, and 20% from Rallying Cry. So basically everyone can build beyond 125% crit damage to at least 155%~185%, when you add another 30% for the NB Mastery they gain nothing because it's not feasibly possible to reach the 185%~215% it would require. This is also considering that you don't have subclassing for the crit damage bonuses, only 5%.
Instead of 5% crit damage/healing and 30% cap.. why not..12.5% crit damage/healing and 15% cap.. go with the -50% route you have been doing.. otherwise this Mastery makes no sense to pick up under the current context of the game.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »In general, Nightblades gained a lot from the PTS changes because we understand there is moderate room for improvement with their core kit. While we recognize some of these problems still exist, this isn’t something we can comprehensively solve until we do the refresh work for the Nightblade class. What we were able to adjust on the PTS helps, but it is intended to be a stopgap until the class refresh.
Similar to Nightblade, we’ve seen some feedback that the Sorcerer Class Mastery kit feels underpowered and not competitive with other classes. We’d like to better understand why some of you are feeling this way. In PTS Week 1, Sorcerers were actually doing the most damage out of all classes by quite a large margin; we did reduce the strength to account for that and later reverted some of the nerfs. Now, it’s worth noting that there is a bug with Sphere of Influence where it’s only applying its damage shield to one player instead of two, and it also doesn’t currently work with Daedric Refuge (this should be fixed in the next PTS patch).
The problem with NB and Sorc is that you've built them up as singlet target DPS machines, but any time their DPS gets too high, the mob comes out with dummy parses, then you nerf them back down to the same level of other classes. This would be fine if there was any sort of compensation for cleave, but there isn't. NB, Sorc, and WW have by far the worst cleave in the game, so the only logical conclussion is they should have higher single target dummy DPS. You need to pick a side.
Frankly, I'm happy with the state of the Sorc Mastery's overall, especially for PVP, so I think that needs to be clarified. They have some very versatile Mastery's to pick from. I gather you're speaking about feedback regarding PVE, so on that subject you need to consider how that DPS is being produced and why people may have complaints about the initial nerfs:
- Signet + Overload = Sorc is abusing this combination to output an additional 10~13k DPS while staying above 170 ultimate. Warden's Bear was being abused, yet you nerfed it with -50% damage, so why is this not a consideration too? This Mythic is way too problematic and needs a complete rework, it's also being abused on WW now, and those mains fear you'll nerf them over the Mythic like you've done with Sorc the 1st week. Please.. please, change this set.
- Overload over Atro = Sorc in a group should be providing Major Berserk to their team, this is also a very clunky and unreliable skill no one wants to use in real content. I can parse 180k with Overload + Signet cheese, swapping to Atro I lose over 15k DPS and I'm back down to 165k without any of the cleave other classes bring.
- Monolith + Liquid Lightning = Set is very strong, but situtationally useful. Sometimes the damage won't do anything, 1 Monolith doesn't deal damage and only gives 100 w/s damage, 3 gives 300 w/s damage, but is nearly impossible to keep up with 100% uptime, so on average you'll bounce between 2~3 for an ongoing parse. It's stationary and requires Liquid Lightning, a skill that barely does 3% of a parse, while Monolith can do 6~7%. Borderline parse cheese.
- No Cleave = Sorc, NB, and WW are single target archetypes, they do not have strong cleave. I found an Arcanist parse that can do 155k with 120k as aoe, so 77%. Sorc can do 180k with 30k as aoe using the Overload + Signet cheese, so only 17% aoe. NB and WW is probably just as, if not worse, you need to be comfortable with these playstyles excelling on a dummy, you can't just nerf them down to the same level as other classes and expect it to be fair. There have been meta's where NB/Sorc were the highest DPS, but because they provided no cleave or additional support, they were never used in trial comps.
- Throwing Knife + Status Effect Chance = Too expensive to use in real content, you'll run out of resources in 20 seconds, people are parsing with it only becasue Signet is overpowered in conjunction with Overload, making unrealistic DPS via crazy status effect procs.
- Static Reverb + Pets = Doesn't feel good. Stop putting red tape on pet vs no pet, Sorc's don't like this, so I really... really.. hope you take this into consideration for the rework. We want a class set, flourish, and passives that work with 100% value 100% of the time regardless of a pet or not. This is coming from someone who doesn't like pets, but I don't want to be punished for engaging with them.
Thank you for the continued communication, can't wait to see what all the future refreshes bring.
MashmalloMan
22